Tenants overholding for 6 months enforcement of determination order

I listen to a bit of English radio online and I hear LL insurance policies like this being advertised a lot, covering losses due to bad tenants etc. But over on the UK they would be got rid of much faster you can be sure so the payouts would not be near as high for an insurance company.

Del2005

Lumen wrote: »

Is insurance available that pays out the value of PRTB orders that are not met by tenants?

This lumpy risk from scumbags/financially desperate people is similar to how compo claims work, and is a natural fit for an insurance product.

Or can you sell on the eventual debt to a collection agency?

Insurance is for an unforseen event. Unfortunately in this country its become so bad that it would be an assurance policy.

The cost of recovering debt in this country is the reason why the tenants get away with the non payment. Unless the debt is substantial its not worth chasing and if the person has no assets, how many tenants have assets?, you can't get blood from a stone.

Squatter

sportsfan90 wrote: »

A previous housemate of mine who is a socialist thinks it's a disgrace that he should have to pay a cent of rent at all as he reckoned the mortgage was probably already paid off by now so why should the owner be allowed make a profit.. Tbh I didn't even bother trying to reason with him.

Is he currently the Minister for Housing by any chance?

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

Is insurance available that pays out the value of PRTB orders that are not met by tenants?

DubCount wrote: »

There used to be a policy available from rentassured.ie. Not sure if it is still available. It was very expensive, it only covered up to 11 months loss of rental income (and losses are likely to be much more than that) and they only covered tenants which they vetted.

I'm not surprised it was expensive if it covered rental losses without a PRTB determination.

Del2005 wrote: »

Insurance is for an unforseen event. Unfortunately in this country its become so bad that it would be an assurance policy.

That's a handy pun but not supported by evidence. There were 6,610 RTB disputes with landlords as an applicant in 2018, against ~340k registered tenancies. That's less than 2% dispute rate.

I can't find statistics on the value of determinations, but let's say 10k each, that would mean a total cost averaged across all registered tenancies of about €200 per tenancy.

Add in a 20% margin for the insurer and the usual bail-in levies and VAT and you get around €300/year per policy.

Alternatively, the PRTB could add a levy to the cost of registration and then pay out from a central fund. There would still be an incentive for landlords to vet tenants to avoid incurring the interruption to income and hassle of a PRTB dispute.

Stats: https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/research /

Thomas

Fol20 wrote: »

I wish there was a blacklist for these types of situations where lets say when tenants apply for a property they need to provide something similar to a tax clearance cert or a credit type check. If this was in place, tenants would think twice about doing something like this as they would struggle to rent for good afterwards

RTB determinations are public record so you can search for LLs and Tenants names for previous issues raised about them in the RTB.

Del2005

Lumen wrote: »

I'm not surprised it was expensive if it covered rental losses without a PRTB determination.



That's a handy pun but not supported by evidence. There were 6,610 RTB disputes with landlords as an applicant in 2018, against ~340k registered tenancies. That's less than 2% dispute rate.

I can't find statistics on the value of determinations, but let's say 10k each, that would mean a total cost averaged across all registered tenancies of about €200 per tenancy.

Add in a 20% margin for the insurer and the usual bail-in levies and VAT and you get around €300/year per policy.

Alternatively, the PRTB could add a levy to the cost of registration and then pay out from a central fund. There would still be an incentive for landlords to vet tenants to avoid incurring the interruption to income and hassle of a PRTB dispute.

Stats: https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/research /

How many landlords just paid money for the tenants to leave? A system that takes up to 2 years and substantial losses vs a quick few grand to cut your losses.

Fol20

Thomas wrote: »

RTB determinations are public record so you can search for LLs and Tenants names for previous issues raised about them in the RTB.

There is and i do use it, however there is a lot of cases including some of my own that never make to the RTB has others have pointed out, debt collection is very difficult in ireland so no point pursuing

Thomas

Fol20 wrote: »

There is and i do use it, however there is a lot of cases including some of my own that never make to the RTB has others have pointed out, debt collection is very difficult in ireland so no point pursuing

I haven't been in the situation but if I had a problem tenant, I would follow it through to ensure their name was public. I would also state this to the tenant early in the process as you can be sure many of them probably aren't aware of the public nature of the orders.

Del2005

Thomas wrote: »

I haven't been in the situation but if I had a problem tenant, I would follow it through to ensure their name was public. I would also state this to the tenant early in the process as you can be sure many of them probably aren't aware of the public nature of the orders.

They would most likely end up with a payout because of your threatening behaviour. A landlord does not dot all the i's or cross all the t's and they are ruled against with compensation for the tenant. A tenant doesn't pay rent and destroys a property what does the landlord get?

rightmove

LL are less likely to take a case

Squatter

Del2005 wrote: »

A landlord does not dot all the i's or cross all the t's and they are ruled against with compensation for the tenant.

A tenant doesn't pay rent and destroys a property what does the landlord get?

Two fingers from the Government, the RTB, Threshold, Focus Ireland, the Peter McVerry Trust and the rest of the Irish homeless charity industry. :mad:

Plus, if he's really lucky, a Revenue audit to check why he hasn't paid tax on the rent he didn't receive.