Off-Topic Thread V3.0

Homelander

Sorry KO Kiki but those benchmarks are completely useless. Witcher 3, BF4, Crysis 3, GTAV, Far Cry 4....welcome to 2014.

It's 2019. Five years later. Claiming the extra threads of the 3770 doesn't matter is ludicrious.

Anyone who has actually used a wide array of processors in 2019 will know that a 3770 is still a good processor. Try Far Cry 5, Assassins Creed Odyessy, Fallout 4, GTA V even, and see the difference.

You claimed that a 7500 was on par with an 8400 which is utterly ridiculous. An 8400 is a 6/6 processor. a 7500 is 4/4. Sure, benchmarks from 2014 will show the 7500 to be a good cpu, but we live in 2019.

In fact the literal link you posted, shows that the 3700K keeps pace with the 8400 in many games. The 8400, which is a better gaming cpu than the 2600, both being infinitely better than a 7500.

K.O.Kiki

Homelander wrote: »

Sorry KO Kiki but those benchmarks are completely useless. Witcher 3, BF4, Crysis 3, GTAV, Far Cry 4....welcome to 2014.

It's 2019. Five years later. Claiming the extra threads of the 3770 doesn't matter is ludicrious.

Anyone who has actually used a wide array of processors in 2019 will know that a 3770 is still a good processor. Try Far Cry 5, Assassins Creed Odyessy, Fallout 4, GTA V even, and see the difference.

You claimed that a 7500 was on par with an 8400 which is utterly ridiculous. An 8400 is a 6/6 processor. a 7500 is 4/4. Sure, benchmarks from 2014 will show the 7500 to be a good cpu, but we live in 2019.

In fact the literal link you posted, shows that the 3700K keeps pace with the 8400 in many games. The 8400, which is a better gaming cpu than the 2600, both being infinitely better than a 7500.

Any i5 past the 6500 is a better buy than an i7-3770K.
The only way the old i7 keeps up is with very fast RAM & big overclocks.
Benchmarks show it.
If anything the gap will have gotten larger over time.

Also

those benchmarks are completely useless. Witcher 3, BF4, Crysis 3, GTAV, Far Cry 4....welcome to 2014.
[...]
Try Far Cry 5, Assassins Creed Odyessy, Fallout 4, GTA V even,

:rolleyes:

Homelander

Sorry KO Kiki you are not really backing up your benchmarks. I said , "EVEN" GTAV, recognising your choice of benchmarks.

No, any i5 past 6500 is 100% not better than 3770K in 2019.

Take modern games. Far Cry 5. Assassins Creed Odysessy. Kingdom Come. These games all perform much better with a 3770 over a 6500 or 7500. And they are even games from 2017, let alone 2019. Why? Extra threads.

You seem to be basing your opinion on 2014 benchmarks, which is ridiculous. Let go of the past?

Anyone who would suggest that a 6500 or 7500 is better than a 3770 in 2019 does not know what they are talking about. The extra threads of the 3770 are invaluable.

It's 2019. Games are now demanding extra cores and threads. CPU's which still have 4c/8t are still chugging along fine at 60fps (eg 2600, 3770, 4770). GPU's like 6500/7400 which are 4c/4t are not, they have good avg frames but crap minimum frames, due to lack of threads.

To suggest otherwise is nonsene.

Headshot

Guys any advice on a cloud based anti virus system? (work related)

Anyone know much about Panda?

Homelander

you are confusing cores with threads. just having more of each doesn't matter, but a certain number in 2019 is important. it's also why an 8core 8thread 9700k for example is much faster in games than an 8core 16thread 3700x processor.

take the 7600k for example, impossible for that procesor to hold a steady 60fps in some new aaa games, but an older processor with 8 threads can. I would agree that games are not quickly moving towards more threads right now than 4/8, but a 4/4 like the 7600k does struggle today in SOME of the latest games.

doesn't mean its still not an ok processor but its very dated. and obviously posting 5 year old benchmarks as was done above is pointless.

here is a good image, and this is scaling on ryzen 1700 (itself a very dated gaming processor in 2019 compared to the 7600K even actually due to much weaker ipc). on the same processor with cores/threads limited you can see a major difference.

ProjectColossus

2ndcoming wrote: »

Just remember you'll also have to upgrade the ram if you do go all out.

Oh yeah of course. I wasn't fully considering that, thanks for the reminder.

briany wrote: »

If the OP wants to knock 50 euro off their build, I recommend swapping out the Fractal Design case for the Sharkoon M25-V. I have this case and think it's a bit of a steal for what they're currently selling it at. Very minimal in looks, but so is the r4.

Thanks, actually I have the Fractal case already, that list of components in the OP is the stuff I bought last time around. So I'm good for a case. Cheers though.



I'm beginning to begrudgingly accept the fact that to do this upgrade properly, I'm more than likely going to need to properly upgrade mobo/cpu also. Unless my mate in Intel can produce a 3770k for next to nothing (with proper upgrades to follow later), then it's probably not a good idea to go spending money on one somewhere like CEX and kick the problem down the line, when that money should instead go towards a proper modern upgrade now instead.

Thanks all.

K.O.Kiki

glynf

Lads, looking to sell my old desktop-does €500 sound OK for: 4790k, Asus Maximius VII Formula, 8GB RAM, 500GB Samsung SSD, Silverstone FT04 case ?

Homelander

not really, being completely honest you will struggle to get more than 250 for that package on adverts. adding a gpu would rise it in value as a ready to go gaming pc way beyond the actual value of just a gpu, but as a pc with no graphics card, you will find it tough to sell for even half that.

BloodBath

Need a bit of advice. Putting parts together for a new build and I'm torn between ryzen 2700, 3600 and 3700. The 2700 is crazy value atm so I'm kinda drawn to that as I'm sucker for price to performance. The main problem is storage solutions.

I currently have 2 x 250gb ssd's and a 1TB HDD. That's all since the the 2TB HDD died. I am going to get 2 x 3TB HDD's and a 1TB NVME SSD. The 2 x 250gb ssd's are going to become cache drives for the 3TB HDD's and the 1TB NMVE SSD becomes the new C windows drive. The 1TB HDD can become a downloads drive.

I've been reading that using the NVME slot will disable 2 of the 6 sata ports on b450 and x470 meaning I'd be down to 4 usable ports. This is just a limitation of PCIE3 so adding sata PCI card is not going to be ideal either I'd imagine.

Is my only option going x570 and 3600/3700 if I want the storage solution mentioned above?

Homelander

I would lean away from the 2700 unless the main use is productivity, it's good value but only for that use, if gaming's a factor the ipc improvement of ryzen 3 is considerable, 2700 is weak-ish for games in comparison. 3700 ideally for either or both. clueless about the storage aspect though.

TitianGerm

Anyone see this monitor for sale here yet? I see the 32" version on Amazon for £329 but I think that's an older model?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NPHZQTP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_b.S3Db2VFH3BP

Definitely an option when I look for a second monitor early next year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNsNOyArB9A

BloodBath

It's a biggish price jump though. I'm coming from a 3770k @ 4.4Ghz so even the 2700 shoulder offer better IPC than that. It's for a mixture of productivity and gaming at 2k and will be paired with a 5700 flashed with 5700xt bios giving it roughly stock 5700xt performance.

Productivity is 3d modelling/texturing, rendering 3d, lightmass baking etc so the extra cores/threads are great for that but in engine at runtime the IPC would be nice for real time rendering as well as gaming.

My monitor is 110Hz. Anything around 100fps I'm happy with. That will be upgraded next year though and become the second monitor to replace the old 1080p one so I have 2 x 27" 2k.

The way and speed AMD have been updating the Ryzen line I'd say I could upgrade in a year or two to a 12 or 16 core Ryzen 4000/5000 series fairly cheaply so I don't really wanna go all out on 3700 +x570 now unless I really have to for storage reasons.

Homelander

I think you would be surprised. 3770k at 4.4 v 2700 stock will be quite similar (in games obviously). faster ram will show benefits and obviously newer platform too but if i personally was coming from that setup, i would definitely aim for 3700x for a good boost in games and apps. especially i find on high refresh monitors the 1 percent lows on ryzen/ryzen 2 are a bummer compared to intel processors like the 8600/9600/9700 etc. for your uses i think 3700x is a good choice.

BloodBath

Yeah the 1% low differences are pretty significant. I think the 2700 maxes around 4.1-4.2Ghz as well so maybe not much better IPC than the 3770k.

The 3600/3700 + a cheaper x570 board might be the best option for now. Should be able to pick up a cheap 12 or 16 core ryzen 3000 second hand in a couple of years then as well as being able to add more drives through a PCI sata card if needed. I'll need a 3rd 3TB drive for back up as well so looking at needing at least 6 active sata ports.

glynf

Homelander wrote: »

I would lean away from the 2700 unless the main use is productivity, it's good value but only for that use, if gaming's a factor the ipc improvement of ryzen 3 is considerable, 2700 is weak-ish for games in comparison. 3700 ideally for either or both. clueless about the storage aspect though.

Cheers-stuck it in for a few quid more, per-empting the usual low balling.

z0oT

BloodBath wrote: »

I currently have 2 x 250gb ssd's and a 1TB HDD. That's all since the the 2TB HDD died. I am going to get 2 x 3TB HDD's and a 1TB NVME SSD. The 2 x 250gb ssd's are going to become cache drives for the 3TB HDD's and the 1TB NMVE SSD becomes the new C windows drive. The 1TB HDD can become a downloads drive.

I've been reading that using the NVME slot will disable 2 of the 6 sata ports on b450 and x470 meaning I'd be down to 4 usable ports. This is just a limitation of PCIE3 so adding sata PCI card is not going to be ideal either I'd imagine.

Is my only option going x570 and 3600/3700 if I want the storage solution mentioned above?

That's only true for B450, which only has 4 sata ports coming from the chipset.

The only way that the motherboard manufacturers can offer 6 sata ports with b450 is to cannibalise the M.2 port so the last 2 ports can run from the cpu directly instead.

X470 doesn't have that issue as that goes up to 8 sata ports I think. As a result, you should have plenty ports for your desired setup with X470.

Cuddlesworth

BloodBath wrote: »

gaming at 2k

3840*2160p, eg "4K"?

I don't think it would make much difference going from a older I7 to a ryzen CPU when gaming at 4k. For almost all games, your CPU will be waiting around for the GPU to render frames.

BloodBath

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

3840*2160p, eg "4K"?

I don't think it would make much difference going from a older I7 to a ryzen CPU when gaming at 4k. For almost all games, your CPU will be waiting around for the GPU to render frames.

2k is 2560x1440. No way would I go 4k.

z0oT wrote: »

That's only true for B450, which only has 4 sata ports coming from the chipset.

The only way that the motherboard manufacturers can offer 6 sata ports with b450 is to cannibalise the M.2 port so the last 2 ports can run from the cpu directly instead.

X470 doesn't have that issue as that goes up to 8 sata ports I think. As a result, you should have plenty ports for your desired setup with X470.

Really? Every x470 board I've seen has had 6 sata ports the same as b450. It's a limitation of PCIe3 and older Ryzen processors afaik.

The older threaderippers and ryzen 3000 is the only way to get more PCIe lanes afaik. Open to correction here though.

z0oT

BloodBath wrote: »

Really? Every x470 board I've seen has had 6 sata ports the same as b450. It's a limitation of PCIe3 and older Ryzen processors afaik.

The older threaderippers and ryzen 3000 is the only way to get more PCIe lanes afaik. Open to correction here though.

It's more down to the amount of IO available I believe.

The x470 chipset itself supports up to 8 sata ports. I haven't seen any x470 board with 8 ports though, board manafacturers have gone down the road of multiple M.2 slots instead.

There are x370 boards with 8 sata ports. The Asus Prime x370 being one of them. I think the Asrock Taichi is another.

Anyway even in the case of the 6 sata port x470 boards, you should be able to populate all 6 sata ports and run a single M.2 off the cpu aswell which you couldn't do with b450.

You probably wouldn't be able to saturate those 6 sata ports at the one time though due to the 4 lanes from the cpu to the chipset.

That's where the limitation would be - 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0 is 32Gbps, 6 sata ports would require a total of 36Gbps. The X570 doubles the link speed from the chipset to the cpu to 64Gbps so it wouldn't have that issue.

So you can run them all on x470, but just not all at full speed at the same time.

K.O.Kiki

BloodBath

z0oT wrote: »

It's more down to the amount of IO available I believe.

The x470 chipset itself supports up to 8 sata ports. I haven't seen any x470 board with 8 ports though, board manafacturers have gone down the road of multiple M.2 slots instead.

There are x370 boards with 8 sata ports. The Asus Prime x370 being one of them. I think the Asrock Taichi is another.

Anyway even in the case of the 6 sata port x470 boards, you should be able to populate all 6 sata ports and run a single M.2 off the cpu aswell which you couldn't do with b450.

You probably wouldn't be able to saturate those 6 sata ports at the one time though due to the 4 lanes from the cpu to the chipset.

That's where the limitation would be - 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0 is 32Gbps, 6 sata ports would require a total of 36Gbps. The X570 doubles the link speed from the chipset to the cpu to 64Gbps so it wouldn't have that issue.

So you can run them all on x470, but just not all at full speed at the same time.

Thanks man. Looking out for deals, we'll see what I end up with.

Already ordered a 5700.

TheDoc

Guess things havn't kicked of for black friday yet, even though its past midnight?

Is there normally a "time" things get going? Have to say if what I've had in my carts for the last few weeks doesn't get any sort of drop in price, disappointed with what is basically the first Black Friday I ever prep'd for

wotzgoingon

What are you looking to buy? If my memory serves me correct but it's not that great tbh, well my memory tells me it is mostly SSD's that get discounted. I could be totally wrong but that's what I remember anyway. Not much computer components get discounted like CPU's or MB's.

They do discount stuff like HD enclosures, cables, headphones stuff like that.

TheDoc

wotzgoingon wrote: »

What are you looking to buy? If my memory serves me correct but it's not that great tbh, well my memory tells me it is mostly SSD's that get discounted. I could be totally wrong but that's what I remember anyway. Not much computer components get discounted like CPU's or MB's.

They do discount stuff like HD enclosures, cables, headphones stuff like that.

Yeah I’m looking at cpu, mono, ram and GPU

Kimbot

Wahoo...... my build finally arrived yesterday. Got it all put together and its looking really nice. Powered it up to make sure it would power on and all was good so when I get home today i will put windows and the drivers etc on it

I'll put up a few pics later

TitianGerm

Aorus B450 AORUS M at £77 a good buy?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07G36DF29/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_pBq4DbS3GDHB3

I'm tempted to grab this and an NVME drive to upgrade from my current AB350 and SSD combo.

Lu Tze

TitianGerm wrote: »

Aorus B450 AORUS M at £77 a good buy?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07G36DF29/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_pBq4DbS3GDHB3

I'm tempted to grab this and an NVME drive to upgrade from my current AB350 and SSD combo.

I have it, it works, sata ports are edge facing which is good as they aren't restricted by the graphics card (which is why the first b450 Mobo I bought is sitting in a drawer)

TitianGerm

Lu Tze wrote: »

I have it, it works, sata ports are edge facing which is good as they aren't restricted by the graphics card (which is why the first b450 Mobo I bought is sitting in a drawer)

Can you use two M2 drives at once?

TheDoc

The Hyper 212 EVO Black edition that was on sale, today on Black Friday, went back to £44.

Have to say for the first black friday ive put money aside to get PC upgrades, massively disappointed.

I know it might be nieve of me as I'm looking for a Ryzen 5 3600 and maybe I shouldn't expect anything to reduce around it (mobo,RAM) but I've waited three weeks and watched two of the parts in my basket go out of stock, now with a 1-2 months lead time.....