Rugby attendance

troyzer

Former Former wrote: »

The English would never take us and we would never ask to join.

Attendances are fine.

What an awful thread.

I don't think it's an awful thread. The OP is right, it's an interesting problem that rugby has.

Second tier teams in English soccer like Leeds can and do regularly sell out 35,000+ stadiums on a weekly basis in a 40+ game season and yet Leinster, arguably the best club team in the world in a sport which is supposedly one of the most popular in the world, doesn't sell out its small 18,000 capacity stadium without it either being a European game or an interpro.

And yet, we have no problem selling out the Aviva for an Ireland game. There is a weird disconnect in rugby that doesn't seem to be present in other major sports.

molloyjh

munsterlegend wrote: »

There was an insinuation that sky could not afford English premiership rugby which is laughable considering what they pay to show the premiership football! Anyway yes rugby is popular particularly given the national team success in Ireland.

I was being facetious.

At the end of the day, rugby has lower attendances and overall popularity than the likes of soccer because it is, by nature, a less accessible game. It’s more complicated and requires complete attention. You can give it your complete attention and be really up on the laws and still miss stuff. Naturally enough that means less people will get less invested. Personally I’m totally okay with that. The complexity of the game is part of what I love about it and I don’t feel the need to be in some sort of dick measuring contest with other sports. Enough people are into it.

The Lost Sheep

troyzer wrote: »

I don't think it's an awful thread. The OP is right, it's an interesting problem that rugby has.

Second tier teams in English soccer like Leeds can and do regularly sell out 35,000+ stadiums on a weekly basis in a 40+ game season and yet Leinster, arguably the best club team in the world in a sport which is supposedly one of the most popular in the world, doesn't sell out its small 18,000 capacity stadium without it either being a European game or an interpro.

And yet, we have no problem selling out the Aviva for an Ireland game. There is a weird disconnect in rugby that doesn't seem to be present in other major sports.

Thats other countries where with soccer people have been attending their team playing at home 16-20+ games a season for years.
Soccer hasnt been big here with support of teams in FAI premier league etc and the GAA has big support for championship but not league
Leeds population is what exactly?
Its not simply rugby. Its most sports in Ireland

Dubinusa

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It is fairly easy. Dump the Pro14 and join the English Premiership

You would fill out the Aviva most week if you had Saracens/Bath etc in the league.

The Welsh tried to do it. The Scottish and Italian crossed us for the World Cup. So no love loss for any of them.

Join the Premiership, they would take us because the TV rights would go through the roof. Plus the attendance figures would increase.

I agree with this. The provinces would add to the competition. We'd draw bigger crowds easily, even against the weaker sides

c.p.w.g.w

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Thats other countries where with soccer people have been attending their team playing at home 16-20+ games a season for years.
Soccer hasnt been big here with support of teams in FAI premier league etc and the GAA has big support for championship but not league
Leeds population is what exactly?
Its not simply rugby. Its most sports in Ireland

Leeds population is 780,000 according to the latest census.

Leeds maybe player 26 home games a year(depending on cups etc)

troyzer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

I don't think it's an awful thread. The OP is right, it's an interesting problem that rugby has.

Second tier teams in English soccer like Leeds can and do regularly sell out 35,000+ stadiums on a weekly basis in a 40+ game season and yet Leinster, arguably the best club team in the world in a sport which is supposedly one of the most popular in the world, doesn't sell out its small 18,000 capacity stadium without it either being a European game or an interpro.

And yet, we have no problem selling out the Aviva for an Ireland game. There is a weird disconnect in rugby that doesn't seem to be present in other major sports.

Thats other countries where with soccer people have been attending their team playing at home 16-20+ games a season for years.
Soccer hasnt been big here with support of teams in FAI premier league etc and the GAA has big support for championship but not league
Leeds population is what exactly?
Its not simply rugby. Its most sports in Ireland

Leeds is exactly the same size as Leinster when you take the broadest possible definition.

They also have league remember, the Rhinos are big business. Ireland isn't the only country with multiple sports.

Dravokivich

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It is fairly easy. Dump the Pro14 and join the English Premiership

You would fill out the Aviva most week if you had Saracens/Bath etc in the league.

The Welsh tried to do it. The Scottish and Italian crossed us for the World Cup. So no love loss for any of them.

Join the Premiership, they would take us because the TV rights would go through the roof. Plus the attendance figures would increase.

The Irish provinces wouldn't really have much problems with them. English clubs never addressed their difficulties competing both domestically and in Europe.

I think once pro14 teams have their merchandisers selling gear, attendances are more of a nice to have. We can't expect consistent high attendances when we can't run our own domestic competition at that level.

The Lost Sheep

troyzer wrote: »

Leeds is exactly the same size as Leinster when you take the broadest possible definition.

They also have league remember, the Rhinos are big business. Ireland isn't the only country with multiple sports.

Yeah but soccer would still number one by a bit. Never said Ireland isnt only area with multiple sports
Leinster and provinces only been playing more than 10 games a season for about 20 years.

brocbrocach

Dubinusa wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It is fairly easy. Dump the Pro14 and join the English Premiership

You would fill out the Aviva most week if you had Saracens/Bath etc in the league.

The Welsh tried to do it. The Scottish and Italian crossed us for the World Cup. So no love loss for any of them.

Join the Premiership, they would take us because the TV rights would go through the roof. Plus the attendance figures would increase.

I agree with this. The provinces would add to the competition. We'd draw bigger crowds easily, even against the weaker sides

i

Why would people want to see Saracens/Bath every week? The number of people who know they're "big names" is small - most of those who know and can be arsed to attend regular games already sit next to you in the rds. The Aviva will never sell out for routine league games, rugby doesn't have the mass popularity + widespread tradition that soccer does. Outside the English heartlands and rugby league no club teams in the world can draw on that.

D14Rugby

I see our rugby loving friend Ewan has joined us by the looks of the brand new account posting extremely similar opinions on the game to the ones expressed in Ewan's "articles".
The idea that provincial attendances are poor just isn't correct at all, could they be better or more consistent, yes but to call them poor is just incorrect. The Irish sporting public are a fickle bunch or in other words "bandwagoners". I've seen some opposition to the word here already but it's true the Irish public love success but most don't have the heart/interest to be there for the whole journey, the LOI is probably the best example of this but it's evident across the board with the GAA NFL vs Championship attendance comparisons being another good example.
The provincial game doesn't do too bad when compared with other sports on the island. The LOI maxes out at 3-5000 for the top 3/4 teams while the NFL varies a lot but probably averages out at around 15,000 in division 1 from a quick glance at last years attendances. So for the 4th most popular sport participation wise rugby is probably punching above its weight for attendance at the top level.

If you're looking for a problem in attendance in professional rugby here there's 2 main ones.
1. The fanbase is split a lot in that AIL games regularly clash with Pro 14 games, not directly but in a way you wouldn't be able to attend both in their entirety, so people have to choose which to attend, club or province and personally quite often I choose the AIL game because its a lot cheaper then I can go enjoy the other game in the clubhouse in the warmth with a pint.
2. Facilities. They're mostly great but pretty open and given our climate that doen't make attending games very attractive for the people that are on the fence about following the sport regularly or just getting into it.

The real problem rugby faces with it's fanbase is the same one every sport/team experiencing a period of success in this country faces, retention, how will rugby retain these fans when(if) the lean times return? Really we've got to get the current fans embedded in the sport that's the real aim for Irish rugby, not 30k+ weekly attendance some here seem to think should be the aim.

Dave_The_Sheep

D14Rugby wrote: »

The real problem rugby faces with it's fanbase is the same one every sport/team experiencing a period of success in this country faces, retention, how will rugby retain these fans when(if) the lean times return? Really we've got to get the current fans embedded in the sport that's the real aim for Irish rugby, not 30k+ weekly attendance some here seem to think should be the aim.

Continued success. Not everlasting, obviously, but a certain sustained period of success guarantees you a certain sustained period of support for the times after that success expires. Not just a few years.

Irish rugby (both International and Provincial) has been doing pretty well in that sense in the past two decades. World Cup aside, of course.

I hope.

munsterlegend

One thing people seem to be forgetting about comparing attendances in different sports is that in rugby you have the better players rested in Ireland in a regular basis due to the physical nature of the sport. People want to see the best players when they go to a game which in football they usually do as players not rested as much.

Benedict XVI

I think that is is an important point

The current interest in rugby is based on very successful franchises in the professional era and the strongest national team in history probably.

And most of the people who have become interested in rugby based on the above have done so by watching games and following the teams on TV and in groups in the pub etc.

So even though the sport is popular the support is fairly "shallow".

The GAA is the opposite, it's fan base is deeper. As we see in the GAA a lot of big profile, non-final, inter-county games don't sell out, but at the same time as they are on thousands are attending local county club games all over the country.

But the GAA have been developing that fan base of over a century and a quarter. Rugby is a relatively new kid on the block that up to now has had a fairly niche following.

So in that regard attendances at provincial games is probably what is to be expected.

Burkie1203

D14Rugby wrote: »

If you're looking for a problem in attendance in professional rugby here there's 2 main ones.

1. The fanbase is split a lot in that AIL games regularly clash with Pro 14 games, not directly but in a way you wouldn't be able to attend both in their entirety, so people have to choose which to attend, club or province and personally quite often I choose the AIL game because its a lot cheaper then I can go enjoy the other game in the clubhouse in the warmth with a pint.

Having 20-25% of Pro14 games on during international windows also impacts attendances too. There is limits on people's time and money and its often Ireland v Wales OR Leinster v Zebre

Podge_irl

troyzer wrote: »

I don't think it would slow down the game at all for the referee to say what the call is over an open mic.

It takes about two seconds to say "Blue 6, off his feet, penalty".

Whilst doing the normal motions that the referee does anyway.

Would "off his feet" really help a newcomer much more than the current signal? You'll still have to explain what on earth it actually means.

There are also plenty of scenarios where a quick-tap penalty is taken long before the ref would have a chance to say anything.

Dubinusa wrote: »

I agree with this. The provinces would add to the competition. We'd draw bigger crowds easily, even against the weaker sides

So? Even if that were true, we would bring little to the table when it comes to TV revenue and you would be asking English teams to take a risk on marginally more income in return for either diluting their share or risking losing out on it completely. Utter and complete non-runner.


Professional rugby attendances in Ireland aren't bad, not even close. They are in fact good.

Shefwedfan

I’m not sure we should be complaining, it was mentioned before that the average attendance in Ireland is better than the England

We know it is better than Scotland, Wales and Italy

TCM

Burkie1203 wrote:

Having 20-25% of Pro14 games on during international windows also impacts attendances too. There is limits on people's time and money and its often Ireland v Wales OR Leinster v Zebre

Pro 14 is a mickey mouse b league competition.

bennyl10

TCM wrote: »

Pro 14 is a mickey mouse b league competition.

Only it's not.
It's more competitive than the Premiership/Top14
and it's terms do better in European competition

molloyjh

TCM wrote: »

Pro 14 is a mickey mouse b league competition.

Then why are the teams from this league doing better than the other leagues in Europe while also being in an objectively more competitive league this season?

OldRio

TCM wrote: »

Pro 14 is a mickey mouse b league competition.

Two conferences actually. Do keep up or you end up looking rather silly.

Former Former

TCM wrote: »

Pro 14 is a mickey mouse b league competition.

Which would make the crowds pulled in by the provinces on a weekly basis even more impressive.

There's a weird paradox going on here whereby the people who are most dismissive of rugby are also the ones who are most jealous of it and threatened by it.

Like a kid pulling a girl's hair to conceal the fact that he fancies her, except the hair-pulling 10 year old is more subtle.

TCM

OldRio wrote:

Two conferences actually. Do keep up or you end up looking rather silly.

Two conferences. LOL.

Shefwedfan

TCM wrote: »

Pro 14 is a mickey mouse b league competition.

Go on, tell us what is better?

troyzer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

TCM wrote: »

Pro 14 is a mickey mouse b league competition.

Go on, tell us what is better?

League of Ireland.

Benedict XVI

TCM wrote: »

Pro 14 is a mickey mouse b league competition.

So what sort of a professional league September to April/May do you want Irish teams to be involved in ?

Why is the Pro 14 mickey mouse ?

connemara man

Any point worth talking about here has been ruined

Closing this now.