Property Market 2019

Pussyhands

More economic forecast cuts...Brexit 3 weeks away..

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0306/1034610-oecds-interim-economic-statement/

JohnCleary

The Galway City house in question was purchased in 2015 for €180k - nice flip if they can double in 4 years.

I can't complain, I benefited from the last recession, but this shows that Galway is gone bonkers.

I'm glad I have a place to live in (although we are looking to purchase, not just going to viewings for the craic).

Nobodysrobots

Interesting article from Charlie Weston in today's Indo:

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/charlie-weston-big-buyers-with-more-firepower-are-creating-a-lost-generation-of-renters-37887959.html

Investors literally have billions of euro that enables them to buy up entire apartment blocks to rent out. They have identified that our dysfunctional housing market is unlikely to ever be able to supply the volume of homes at prices that are affordable for ordinary buyers.

This comes a day after Glenveagh CEO stating we may never be able to ramp up supply enough to meet demand.

Sheeps

Another interesting read in the Irish Times property section of all places.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/why-first-time-buyers-cannot-afford-to-purchase-a-home-1.3815107

optogirl

I just keep thinking, hoping, that something has to give but I've been thinking that for a long time now. Very frustrating to think that I will be stuck in the rental sector with no security & ever increasing rent.

Bluefoam

optogirl wrote: »

I just keep thinking, hoping, that something has to give but I've been thinking that for a long time now. Very frustrating to think that I will be stuck in the rental sector with no security & ever increasing rent.

I'm pretty sure that the powers in world economy dont want you to own your property... They want you to rent a home, pay monthly insurance, phone bills, heating and energy, bins collection, car payments, subscribe for wifi, TV, music, netflix, amazon prime, house alarm... even your doorbell needs a subscription these days...

They want to lock you in... nice diligent subsiption based humans are better than free thinking, financially independent ones. The key is to buy your house & do it as soon as possible. There will soon be a divided society... those who own & those who don't.

Sheeps

Pretty telling results in the Irish Times political poll today also:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll

Sinn Féin who are arguably leading the housing debate are dominating support in the under 35's, where as Fine Gael only begin to take the lead in the opinion polls after 35. In my view the fact that the average first time buyer is now 34 is no coincidence, and reinforced by the fact that people who are unmarried (who also find it hardest to get on the housing ladder) are also highly supportive of Sinn Féin.

There are obviously other factors here, but hard to see how housing wont dominate the next general election.

Fol20

Sheeps wrote: »

Pretty telling results in the Irish Times political poll today also:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll

Sinn Féin who are arguably leading the housing debate are dominating support in the under 35's, where as Fine Gael only begin to take the lead in the opinion polls after 35. In my view the fact that the average first time buyer is now 34 is no coincidence, and reinforced by the fact that people who are unmarried (who also find it hardest to get on the housing ladder) are also highly supportive of Sinn Féin.

There are obviously other factors here, but hard to see how housing wont dominate the next general election.

Their economics policies leave a lot to be desired with no critical thinking or logic behind them. Its all buzz words and fluff with nothing to back it up.

coolshannagh28

Bluefoam wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that the powers in world economy dont want you to own your property... They want you to rent a home, pay monthly insurance, phone bills, heating and energy, bins collection, car payments, subscribe for wifi, TV, music, netflix, amazon prime, house alarm... even your doorbell needs a subscription these days...

They want to lock you in... nice diligent subsiption based humans are better than free thinking, financially independent ones. The key is to buy your house & do it as soon as possible. There will soon be a divided society... those who own & those who don't.

We are at the forefront of this model since the crash with vulture funds, REITS,and hedge funds the preferred landlords with guaranteed secure long term yields. We seem to be a model for the movement towards minimum income and our financial model lends itself to this experiment.

Sheeps

Fol20 wrote: »

Their economics policies leave a lot to be desired with no critical thinking or logic behind them. Its all buzz words and fluff with nothing to back it up.

Do you honestly believe Eoin O'Broin is just talking fluff on housing?

Fol20

Sheeps wrote: »

Do you honestly believe Eoin O'Broin is just talking fluff on housing?

Im talking general terms for Sinn Fein and when they are so socialist in nature, where are they going to receive the funding for all of their ïmprovements"

Sunrise_Sunset

Pussyhands wrote: »

More economic forecast cuts...Brexit 3 weeks away..

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0306/1034610-oecds-interim-economic-statement/

We're currently house hunting. I wonder should we wait until after Brexit?

RandomUsername

Sunrise_Sunset wrote:

We're currently house hunting. I wonder should we wait until after Brexit?

No, then you'll be competing with everyone else who waited, unless your job (s) is/are directly at risk from a (unlikely) hard Brexit I'd go for it.

Browney7

Fol20 wrote: »

Im talking general terms for Sinn Fein and when they are so socialist in nature, where are they going to receive the funding for all of their ïmprovements"

It's true their economic policies leave a lot to be desired but FF were in power when the economy was driven off a cliff and FG have presided over the last number of years which has resulted in rocketing rents. Younger people will aspire to owning their own place and not getting fleeced to put a roof over their head in rent. Vote FG and FF and it's more of the same, vote SF and it "may" change. It's not surprising people with sweet FA are gravitating towards what they want to hear.

Property ownership has always been used as a means of political control - right to buy and Maggie T and all that.

scheister

The prices are very annoying at the moment. I will be looking to buy next year. Ill give an example from where i live. Back in 2013 a 2 bed townhouse went on the market for 100k so first time buyer needed to earn €25,714 assuming singly buyer. one of its neighbours still a 2 bed townhouse is now on the market at 215k so the same buyer needs to be on €55,285 a year now to get a mortgage.

Fol20

Browney7 wrote: »

It's true their economic policies leave a lot to be desired but FF were in power when the economy was driven off a cliff and FG have presided over the last number of years which has resulted in rocketing rents. Younger people will aspire to owning their own place and not getting fleeced to put a roof over their head in rent. Vote FG and FF and it's more of the same, vote SF and it "may" change. It's not surprising people with sweet FA are gravitating towards what they want to hear.

Property ownership has always been used as a means of political control - right to buy and Maggie T and all that.

The problem however is they provide a lot of miss information and if they ever get into the power they could drive ireland even further off a cliff compared to the people we have right now. I actually think FG is doing a worse job than FF for their housing policies.

One interesting thing i saw on the the continent is small studio apartments for sale where they would be circa 10m squared in total. Its not ideal for a family however as a stepping stone to something where it provides some the option of not renting and getting one of these instead, i think it might be a good proposition. Even in cities such as Paris these were affordable.

AlmightyCushion

Fol20 wrote: »

The problem however is they provide a lot of miss information and if they ever get into the power they could drive ireland even further off a cliff compared to the people we have right now. I actually think FG is doing a worse job than FF for their housing policies.

One interesting thing i saw on the the continent is small studio apartments for sale where they would be circa 10m squared in total. Its not ideal for a family however as a stepping stone to something where it provides some the option of not renting and getting one of these instead, i think it might be a good proposition. Even in cities such as Paris these were affordable.

I thought you must have got the size wrong because 10sqm sounds absolutely horrendous. Turns out it's true but they are horrendous and not even cheap.

https://www.green-acres.fr/en/properties/56363a-458.htm

€85,000 for that tiny piece of crap! That is not the solution to our housing issues.

abcabc123123

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I thought you must have got the size wrong because 10sqm sounds absolutely horrendous. Turns out it's true but they are horrendous and not even cheap.

https://www.green-acres.fr/en/properties/56363a-458.htm

€85,000 for that tiny piece of crap! That is not the solution to our housing issues.

That looks like a stepping stone to suicide. Good god.

JJJackal

scheister wrote: »

The prices are very annoying at the moment. I will be looking to buy next year. Ill give an example from where i live. Back in 2013 a 2 bed townhouse went on the market for 100k so first time buyer needed to earn €25,714 assuming singly buyer. one of its neighbours still a 2 bed townhouse is now on the market at 215k so the same buyer needs to be on €55,285 a year now to get a mortgage.

98
You are comparing 2013 (the worst recession and housing crisis in memory) to today. Average Prices in 2013 were the same as in 2003 according to the cso website. Another way to look at house prices is to say that this type of house has increased from 100k (we dont know what price it was sold for?) in 2003 to 215k today (he may not get that)- just over a doubling of price in 16 years is probably ok - somewhere between 4-5% increase per year.

Really Irish Housing is such a dysfunctional market!

Cryptopagan

abcabc123123 wrote: »

That looks like a stepping stone to suicide. Good god.

Located at roof level and everything. Tbh if my real home was out in the country somewhere and that was just a place to stay in the city when working I could probably live with it. The kitchen also being the toilet though....

Fol20

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I thought you must have got the size wrong because 10sqm sounds absolutely horrendous. Turns out it's true but they are horrendous and not even cheap.

https://www.green-acres.fr/en/properties/56363a-458.htm

€85,000 for that tiny piece of crap! That is not the solution to our housing issues.

Well you cant have it both ways. You want a large place that is cheap. Be realistic. This is not going to happen.At least if you have places like above, it provides more choice in the market. Small studio that suit single people/couple that dont want to share and at least get a shot at having their own place. You would be surprised at how well you can manage space when its tight.

Its not ideal when you get older but it provides more options and thats what we need. Its like going into a super market, you can go for the tesco milk or you can go for the cmp milk. Choice is king and thats why they could be good.

charlietheminxx

There has to be a middle ground here. That little apartment made me feel claustrophobic just looking at it.

Bluefoam

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

We are at the forefront of this model since the crash with vulture funds, REITS,and hedge funds the preferred landlords with guaranteed secure long term yields. We seem to be a model for the movement towards minimum income and our financial model lends itself to this experiment.

No, we are at the tail end... it's an established model throughout the rest of the world. USA, Middle East, Asia inc. China, Europe. Ireland was too small with prices too high for the funds to take interest, but when the prices fell sygnificantly they were quick to realise the value against potential growth.

In Dubai, I was delighted to get away from my landlord to a property that was managed by a huge firm... They ran the place superbly, rent went up and down based on market rates, they dealt with deposits and maintenance in a very straight forward and open manner... When I was renting from individual landlords they were contantly trying to rip you off, taking deposits, raising rent against the rules, additional charges, estate agent fees yearly, illegal evictions...

pyramuid man

In relation to someone earlier saying that something may change if SF got into power, all I can say is this. If you think things are bad with property prices and interest rates bring charged by banks at the moment, look at what it could be.

Sinn Feins policies will effectively stop mortgage lending and drastically increase interest rates for people who do have a mortgage. Their anti eviction and socialist policies will make it impossible for banks to take action against those who can but won't pay their mortgages and landlords will not be able to evict tenants under any circumstances from what I can see.

In this respect they will make it impossible for banks to lend money as there will be no recourse for them to take action against defaulters. Purple who are in rental accommodation can't be removed so the rental market will stay full with nowhere for people to move on to.

This doesn't appeal to me personally.

Mad_maxx

JJJackal wrote: »

98
You are comparing 2013 (the worst recession and housing crisis in memory) to today. Average Prices in 2013 were the same as in 2003 according to the cso website. Another way to look at house prices is to say that this type of house has increased from 100k (we dont know what price it was sold for?) in 2003 to 215k today (he may not get that)- just over a doubling of price in 16 years is probably ok - somewhere between 4-5% increase per year.

Really Irish Housing is such a dysfunctional market!

The low was 2012 and this brought Dublin prices back to 2002 but your points are correct otherwise

Does anyone know how low the iseq got, the answer is 1992 levels and it dropped 80% in two years, gives you an idea how bad things were

Sheeps

pyramuid man wrote: »

In relation to someone earlier saying that something may change if SF got into power, all I can say is this. If you think things are bad with property prices and interest rates bring charged by banks at the moment, look at what it could be.

Sinn Feins policies will effectively stop mortgage lending and drastically increase interest rates for people who do have a mortgage. Their anti eviction and socialist policies will make it impossible for banks to take action against those who can but won't pay their mortgages and landlords will not be able to evict tenants under any circumstances from what I can see.

In this respect they will make it impossible for banks to lend money as there will be no recourse for them to take action against defaulters. Purple who are in rental accommodation can't be removed so the rental market will stay full with nowhere for people to move on to.

This doesn't appeal to me personally.

We have a broken housing sector where rents are at an all time record high, tenants have no security, house prices are not in any way affordable, interest rates are the highest across Europe, we're not building enough private or public housing and there's no hope for the market to meet demand, traditional banks have too much of the market share in mortgages. The time for a brand new set of housing policies is now, and none of what you're charging Sinn Féin's policy on housing with is correct.

JJJackal

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The low was 2012 and this brought Dublin prices back to 2002 but your points are correct otherwise

Does anyone know how low the iseq got, the answer is 1992 levels and it dropped 80% in two years, gives you an idea how bad things were

2012 is just a bad time point to compare how expensive houses are now

JJJackal

Sheeps wrote: »

We have a broken housing sector where rents are at an all time record high, tenants have no security, house prices are not in any way affordable, interest rates are the highest across Europe, we're not building enough private or public housing and there's no hope for the market to meet demand, traditional banks have too much of the market share in mortgages. The time for a brand new set of housing policies is now, and none of what you're charging Sinn Féin's policy on housing with is correct.

Policies need to be implemented that protect the tenant, the landlords and the banks.

Favouring one over the other leads to dysfunction.

Sheeps

JJJackal wrote: »

Policies need to be implemented that protect the tenant, the landlords and the banks.

Favouring one over the other leads to dysfunction.

That's the way it is now. Things are so heavily stacked in favor of landlords and the banks.

JJJackal

Sheeps wrote: »

That's the way it is now. Things are so heavily stacked in favor of landlords and the banks.

In my opinion, the current policies benefit no one and are stacked against all 3 of these parties

Tenants: no security of tenure, can be evicted easily, low supply

Landlords: can have 2 identical properties in one estate - rent on one 900/month; rent on the other 1600/month. Costs 1000s to evict an unruly or nonpaying tenant

Banks: very difficult to repossess houses of people who have not paid their mortgages in years thus driving up interest rates for tenants who are renting and thus makes buying a home more unaffordable

Am I wrong?