Property Market 2019

Fan of Netflix

snotboogie wrote: »

The statistics don’t match what you are observing, Eastern Europeans are still arriving in far greater numbers than they are leaving.

They really aren't. Source? Eastern European numbers stayed the same between 2011 and 2016 census they just got older.

ZX7R

airportgirl83 wrote: »

Some Eastern European economies are doing very well atm e.g. Poland. Many Poles that I know living in Dublin are cashing in selling their properties atm and moving back home, some will still continue working for foreign companies but from Warsaw, Cracow etc while at the same time enjoying mortgage free lifestyle.

Ireland benefits from low Corp Tax, it's English speaking but there are many countries in Europe that offer similar and more - better infrastructure, health care e.g. The Netherlands, Luxembourg, Germany...

I don't want to offend anyone and I do like Dublin but it has more of a village of Europe feel rather than a European metropoly. You pay a lot for everything and getting very little in return in terms of quality of life imo.

Yes the polish economy is doing well but the wage is still less than a comfortable living, but the main reason for most selling is purely to make profit it will go a long way further in Poland, and I know this my wife is polish.
Another main reason for some moving is the price of rent too bloody high for some.

snotboogie

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

They really aren't. Source? Eastern European numbers stayed the same between 2011 and 2016 census they just got older.

The net migration for the EU 13 was 5k positive in 2018, 12k arrived and 7k left: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2018/ there was a dip in 2017 where the net migration from EU 13 was only 1k positive but it was 6k in 2016 and 5k in 2015.

The_Conductor

Guys- I have just deleted *17* posts from the last 24 hours on this thread.
Cop the hell on.
Also- if you notice a thread going to hell- please use the report post function to bring it to the attention of moderators- we are all volunteers and are not sitting on the internet 24-7 waiting for something to break that needs fixing. Use the report post function- dragging threads utterly offtopic isn't helpful.

el Fenomeno

300 apartments over a measly 9 stories rejected near Botanic Gardens - because of objections due to "design and height".

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/plan-for-300-homes-refused-as-several-politicians-object-38261271.html

Zenify

https://independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/scrapping-mortgage-grant-will-derail-housing-market-38264362.html

Do you think the help-to-buy will be extended?

TSQ

Zenify wrote: »

https://independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/scrapping-mortgage-grant-will-derail-housing-market-38264362.html

Do you think the help-to-buy will be extended?

Yes if developers can help it!

Topgear on Dave

el Fenomeno wrote: »

300 apartments over a measly 9 stories rejected near Botanic Gardens - because of objections due to "design and height".

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/plan-for-300-homes-refused-as-several-politicians-object-38261271.html

This is a bit of a sickener really.

Iv been in Dunshaughlin and Kilcock a lot recently. It's 30+ km to the city centre, they were small villages without many services and poor public transport links and are now sprawling explosively across acres of green fields with hundreds of new houses.

I bet many new owners will be commuting in to the city.

Sheeps

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

This is a bit of a sickener really.

Iv been in Dunshaughlin and Kilcock a lot recently. It's 30+ km to the city centre, they were small villages without many services and poor public transport links and are now sprawling explosively across acres of green fields with hundreds of new houses.

I bet many new owners will be commuting in to the city.

Genuinely amazed by the amount of development in Dunshaughlin. At least Kilcock has a train line, but the developments out in Dunshaughlin are literally being marketed as commuter homes.

What's going to happen when the cost of driving your car increases as carbon taxes rise? There is more and more talk of restricting the use of private cars in the city to tackle congestion and carbon emissions, what'll happen to the people living in these places when they're forced to rely on public transport?

It seems like they've been set up to fail.

Blueshoe

Sheeps wrote: »

Genuinely amazed by the amount of development in Dunshaughlin. At least Kilcock has a train line, but the developments out in Dunshaughlin are literally being marketed as commuter homes.

What's going to happen when the cost of driving your car increases as carbon taxes rise? There is more and more talk of restricting the use of private cars in the city to tackle congestion and carbon emissions, what'll happen to the people living in these places when they're forced to rely on public transport?

It seems like they've been set up to fail.

The 8% of green voters have made that decision for everyone.

Mad_maxx

Sheeps wrote: »

Genuinely amazed by the amount of development in Dunshaughlin. At least Kilcock has a train line, but the developments out in Dunshaughlin are literally being marketed as commuter homes.

What's going to happen when the cost of driving your car increases as carbon taxes rise? There is more and more talk of restricting the use of private cars in the city to tackle congestion and carbon emissions, what'll happen to the people living in these places when they're forced to rely on public transport?

It seems like they've been set up to fail.

Kells is a commuter town, never mind dunshaughlain, dunshaughlain is no journey from Dublin

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Blueshoe wrote: »

The 8% of green voters have made that decision for everyone.

A wise decision. Should be more green voters. 100pc.

Blueshoe

Pheonix10 wrote: »

A wise decision. Should be more green voters. 100pc.

But it wasn't. It's was 8%.
Anyway it's done now let's see what happens. In an ideal world it will push people into poverty and make poorer people's lives misery.
If that's what it takes then so be it

IAmTheReign

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

This is a bit of a sickener really.

Iv been in Dunshaughlin and Kilcock a lot recently. It's 30+ km to the city centre, they were small villages without many services and poor public transport links and are now sprawling explosively across acres of green fields with hundreds of new houses.

I bet many new owners will be commuting in to the city.

It's absolute nonsense. I read this article about this https://www.thejournal.ie/glasnevin-apartment-rejected-4700463-Jun2019/ where a FF councillor Mary Fitzpatrick said both “I think the right decision was made” and then said if nothing was built there it would be “very disappointing” as housing was “desperately needed”.

DCC has a lot to answer for when it comes to the housing crisis. Time and again they've rejected reasonable high density housing developments for spurious reasons. The same parties that run the council then sit back and attack FG for a lack of housing. It's ridiculous. Unless we move away from local councils deciding on planning nothing of any density is likely to get built in the city.

Interested Observer

IAmTheReign wrote: »

It's absolute nonsense. I read this article about this https://www.thejournal.ie/glasnevin-apartment-rejected-4700463-Jun2019/ where a FF councillor Mary Fitzpatrick said both “I think the right decision was made” and then said if nothing was built there it would be “very disappointing” as housing was “desperately needed”.

DCC has a lot to answer for when it comes to the housing crisis. Time and again they've rejected reasonable high density housing developments for spurious reasons. The same parties that run the council then sit back and attack FG for a lack of housing. It's ridiculous. Unless we move away from local councils deciding on planning nothing of any density is likely to get built in the city.

I live in the area, all the local reps immediately came out against it because they knew their constituents would be against it. Unfortunately some of my extended family were deadset against it, reasons being NIMBY essentially. People living in Iona don't want a load of apartments backing onto their nice estate. As you say the comments above are absolute nonsense.

Cryptopagan

IAmTheReign wrote: »

It's absolute nonsense. I read this article about this https://www.thejournal.ie/glasnevin-apartment-rejected-4700463-Jun2019/ where a FF councillor Mary Fitzpatrick said both “I think the right decision was made” and then said if nothing was built there it would be “very disappointing” as housing was “desperately needed”.

DCC has a lot to answer for when it comes to the housing crisis. Time and again they've rejected reasonable high density housing developments for spurious reasons. The same parties that run the council then sit back and attack FG for a lack of housing. It's ridiculous. Unless we move away from local councils deciding on planning nothing of any density is likely to get built in the city.

You didn’t read it very carefully, as it’s An Bord Pleanála which refused permission to the development, not the council (as the article notes, the application bypassed DCC and went straight to the Board, due to recent changes in planning process rules applying to large scale residential developments.)

IAmTheReign

Cryptopagan wrote: »

You didn’t read it very carefully, as it’s An Bord Pleanála which refused permission to the development, not the council (as the article notes, the application bypassed DCC and went straight to the Board, due to recent changes in planning process rules applying to large scale residential developments.)

I read it just fine thanks

It was rejected by ABP, largely because of objections raised by the council

"Councillors, including Sinn Féin's Seamus McGrattan, had voiced opposition to the scheme. So too had elected councillors at the time the application was lodged, including Labour's Aine Clancy and People Before Profit's Andrew Keegan.

In recommending the project be refused permission, An Bord Pleanála senior planning inspector Stephen Rhys Thomas said Dublin City Council had "significant irretrievable concerns" about the design and height of the proposed scheme."

Cuddlesworth

IAmTheReign wrote: »

I read it just fine thanks

It was rejected by ABP, largely because of objections raised by the council

"Councillors, including Sinn F's Seamus McGrattan, had voiced opposition to the scheme. So too had elected councillors at the time the application was lodged, including Labour's Aine Clancy and People Before Profit's Andrew Keegan.

In recommending the project be refused permission, An Bord Plean senior planning inspector Stephen Rhys Thomas said Dublin City Council had "significant irretrievable concerns" about the design and height of the proposed scheme."

Reading the report, he blocked it on proposed height but hid behind a more abstract "not in keeping with the area" because they are not meant to be blocking based on height anymore.

At the scale of the city and given the topographical and architecturally sensitive constraints in and around the site, the proposed development would not successfully integrate with existing development in the vicinity and would therefore be contrary to the advice given by section 3.2 of the Urban Development and Building Heights – Guidelines for Planning Authorities: issued by the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government in December 2018. T

hmmm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

"the proposed development would not successfully integrate with existing development in the vicinity"

Wasn't there something similar with the development close to Pat Kenny's house, where the argument was that it wasn't in keeping with the area?

I don't doubt the planners are implementing the law as it stands, but it seems a bit unfair to me. There are bungalows within walking distance of the city centre - is that area forever to be low rise low density because of the existing development?

I really think it's crazy to be building large amounts of housing (including apartments) in places which require commuting, and yet limiting building close to the city centre.

I'd think it more appropriate that there should be certain rings or clusters in the city where high-rise is almost mandatory e.g. within the canals. We need to correct the problems of the past, not reinforce them.

riclad

People in an estate might think the new apartments will overlook them,
also there will be more traffic and noise where they live.
just because they object to the new apartments doe,s not mean they will not be built.
In the city centre, you can see new apartments, built 20 yards from old
terraced house,s .Apartments can be built almost anywhere ,in the city
if they have parking space, and are under a certain height .

phunkadelic

9 stories would be too much in that area. In the city centre it would be fine, but the current highest anywhere near there would be 2 storeys. 9 stories would look way too high.
The highest building in the attached pic is the 3 storey smurfit industrial building, it would be 3 times the height of that. And about 1.5 times the height of the chimney stack.

IAmTheReign

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Reading the report, he blocked it on proposed height but hid behind a more abstract "not in keeping with the area" because they are not meant to be blocking based on height anymore.

At the scale of the city and given the topographical and architecturally sensitive constraints in and around the site, the proposed development would not successfully integrate with existing development in the vicinity and would therefore be contrary to the advice given by section 3.2 of the Urban Development and Building Heights – Guidelines for Planning Authorities: issued by the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government in December 2018. T

Saying medium or high rise developments aren't in line with the existing area is a circular argument. We don't have high rise developments anywhere in the city. Until we actually build some any high rise development anywhere would be "not in keeping with the area".

The argument for rejection is a cop out excuse that planners can use to block pretty much whatever they want, which in most cases means whatever gets a lot of complaints from the locals. By blocking developments like this ABP are actively encouraging more of the urban sprawl that has left Dublin the mess of housing estates it is today.

TSQ

riclad wrote: »

People in an estate might think the new apartments will overlook them,
also there will be more traffic and noise where they live.
just because they object to the new apartments doe,s not mean they will not be built.
In the city centre, you can see new apartments, built 20 yards from old
terraced house,s .Apartments can be built almost anywhere ,in the city
if they have parking space, and are under a certain height .

Yes, but Im guessing the old Dublin families living in small, terraced, working class homes would more likely be ignored than the owners of spacious homes on leafy avenues in Drumcondra. D8 residents are fed up with their area being turned into a mass student dorm, but got no joy when trying to oppose yet another big student block a month or so ago

Assetbacked

phunkadelic wrote: »

9 stories would be too much in that area. In the city centre it would be fine, but the current highest anywhere near there would be 2 storeys. 9 stories would look way too high.
The highest building in the attached pic is the 3 storey smurfit industrial building, it would be 3 times the height of that. And about 1.5 times the height of the chimney stack.

There is nothing wrong with looking up at a higher building. The same people who think there is hypocritically probably think the Poolbeg chimneys are not an eyesore on the skyline. Irish people just hate change and are entirely irrational in that regard.

Cuddlesworth

TSQ wrote: »

Yes, but Im guessing the old Dublin families living in small, terraced, working class homes would more likely be ignored than the owners of spacious homes on leafy avenues in Drumcondra. D8 residents are fed up with their area being turned into a mass student dorm, but got no joy when trying to oppose yet another big student block a month or so ago

I don't mean to burst your bubble but apartment blocks are going to be more common and the height restrictions are meant to be gone to a extent. Councils are telling developers to build dense and build up and they are submitting planning applications with that in mind. Read the report, developer wanted to build 3-4 story townhouses and a few apartments. You can fast track if you build dense and he tried that. It will probably end up as a combination of 4-6 story blocks in the end.

Samuel T. Cogley

TSQ wrote: »

Yes, but Im guessing the old Dublin families living in small, terraced, working class homes would more likely be ignored than the owners of spacious homes on leafy avenues in Drumcondra. D8 residents are fed up with their area being turned into a mass student dorm, but got no joy when trying to oppose yet another big student block a month or so ago

I'd be happy if they'd just stop putting addiction services into the area. Only in Ireland would we put a massive 'drying out facility' next to a Brewery.

UsBus

Think we could be seeing signs of landlords jumping ship because of the new Air BnB rules. Have seen a couple of apartments go up for sale at extremely low prices. Either that or they don't want the hassle of renting anymore. I know the rent in this area as well and it would be a multiple of a mortgage payment. Air BnB restrictions seem the most likely reason..
I had to look twice when I saw the asking price..seems as though the noose may be tightening a little..

machalla

UsBus wrote: »

Think we could be seeing signs of landlords jumping ship because of the new Air BnB rules. Have seen a couple of apartments go up for sale at extremely low prices. Either that or they don't want the hassle of renting anymore. I know the rent in this area as well and it would be a multiple of a mortgage payment. Air BnB restrictions seem the most likely reason..
I had to look twice when I saw the asking price..seems as though the noose may be tightening a little..

It's probably not viable to do long term rental anymore and some properties were only worthwhile when doing short term rental. So best to offload them quick.

Cryptopagan

Assetbacked wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with looking up at a higher building. The same people who think there is hypocritically probably think the Poolbeg chimneys are not an eyesore on the skyline. Irish people just hate change and are entirely irrational in that regard.

Ireland has changed dramatically in the past 30 years. Asserting Irish people “just hate change” doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny.

Tall buildings cast shadows, overlook other properties, and put a lot of extra pressure on public transport. They are also not conducive to creating and sustaining close knit communities. I think there is scope for more tall buildings in the city centre, but residents of older residential areas will understandably fight to prevent tall buildings being erected across the road from their two-story terraces.

It’s not like there aren’t parts of the city that already have tall apartment blocks—Santry, for example.

IAmTheReign

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Ireland has changed dramatically in the past 30 years. Asserting Irish people “just hate change” doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny.

Tall buildings cast shadows, overlook other properties, and put a lot of extra pressure on public transport. They are also not conducive to creating and sustaining close knit communities. I think there is scope for more tall buildings in the city centre, but residents of older residential areas will understandably fight to prevent tall buildings being erected across the road from their two-story terraces.

It’s not like there aren’t parts of the city that already have tall apartment blocks—Santry, for example.

The idea that tall buildings are not conducive to sustaining communities is just not true. I spent a year living in Singapore and almost every apartment complex had communal facilities like swimming pools, public bbqs and common rooms, squash and tennis courts, gyms, etc. and there was multiple sports and social clubs. It was a far more social environment than any housing estate I've lived in in Ireland