AEW - All Elite Wrestling (*Spoilers for Latest Show*)

ThePott

Omackeral wrote: »

Penelope Ford has been criminally underused. She’s genuinely exciting in the ring and has a great look too. Hopefully they use her more

She was excellent and it felt like just as she was getting momentum they forgot about her. Someone also recently pointed out that she never seems to talk when on Dynamite, whether that's her choice or not who knows.

I think AEW does it a lot with their women's division. They go hot and cold on them constantly. Nyla Rose was a big deal, they paired her with Vickie and forgot about her. Same with Penelope Ford. Same with Big Swole. Shida gets a look in every week or two in a feud they put little thought or effort into. They only made Allie relevant when she was teamed with Brandi.

I don't want to hear either that they get their time on AEW Dark because that is a clear stepdown, it just demonstrates that they don't have faith in their women's division. If some of the male roster disappeared to Dark this much people would be quick to complain.I remember people pointing out that they clearly had 'a plan' when Thunder Rosa showed up with the NWA title. Which was cool and had moments but hasn't lead to much beyond that They can barely book their own women's division but now they're taking in NWA and rumours of crossover with Impact's Knockouts? Been saying for months, AEW has not done right by their women and it's not a lack of talent or depth. They could competently book it they simply don't want to. It's one of their few missteps but it's a major one.

LineOfBeauty

ThePott wrote: »

She was excellent and it felt like just as she was getting momentum they forgot about her. Someone also recently pointed out that she never seems to talk when on Dynamite, whether that's her choice or not who knows.

I think AEW does it a lot with their women's division. They go hot and cold on them constantly. Nyla Rose was a big deal, they paired her with Vickie and forgot about her. Same with Penelope Ford. Same with Big Swole. Shida gets a look in every week or two in a feud they put little thought or effort into. They only made Allie relevant when she was teamed with Brandi.

I don't want to hear either that they get their time on AEW Dark because that is a clear stepdown, it just demonstrates that they don't have faith in their women's division. If some of the male roster disappeared to Dark this much people would be quick to complain.I remember people pointing out that they clearly had 'a plan' when Thunder Rosa showed up with the NWA title. Which was cool and had moments but hasn't lead to much beyond that They can barely book their own women's division but now they're taking in NWA and rumours of crossover with Impact's Knockouts? Been saying for months, AEW has not done right by their women and it's not a lack of talent or depth. They could competently book it they simply don't want to. It's one of their few missteps but it's a major one.

You say it's not a question of talent or depth so what is it? Why would they have, at times, 3 different feuds running on Dynamite that they intentionally want to be bad? How does that make sense?

And tell me, right now what female wrestler under AEW contract is ready to be the top star right now? Britt? She's the top heel and already on TV in prominent segments every week. Who else is there?

Omackeral

They don’t necessarily need to be absolute top stars. Not everyone can be. The brass just need to be more consistent, proactive and innovative with their booking to give them a chance of getting over more. Having your world champion sitting ringside (or not featured at all) more often than not is a bad start.

I agree with the hot and cold take btw. Big Swole showed personality. Where’s she now? What are the motivations of Shanna, Serena Deeb or Penelope Ford as far as wrestling goes? We never hear from them so why should we care?

LineOfBeauty

Omackeral wrote: »

They don’t necessarily need to be absolute top stars. Not everyone can be. The brass just need to be more consistent, proactive and innovative with their booking to give them a chance of getting over more. Having your world champion sitting ringside (or not featured at all) more often than not is a bad start.

I agree with the hot and cold take btw. Big Swole showed personality. Where’s she now? What are the motivations of Shanna, Serena Deeb or Penelope Ford as far as wrestling goes? We never hear from them so why should we care?

The problem is that they don't have a top star at the moment for various reasons. And they're trying to build them, but you have to give these things time, Jade is still green, Anna Jay has had like less than 30 matches total in her entire career. Shanna hasn't got it. Penelope Ford is a work in progress but is nowhere near polished enough to be putting in long live TV matches yet. Swole has personality and probably the highest ceiling of those mentioned but again is not ready for long TV matches. Deeb I don't agree at all about, she's been in long TV matches, is a talented wrestler who AEW have used really well. She's not a top star but they've built mini feuds with her well, her feud with Thunder Rosa in particular, and the use of her as a pure upper mid card babyface has probably been the highlight of the division.

Shida is in matches a lot on Dynamite. She's just been in a built feud with Abadon. Do I need Abadon on my TV? No, I've got no use for her at all, but that speaks to the belief that shoehorning wrestlers who aren't ready onto TV to fill a quota is not how to effectively book a division. It's their weakest division caused by a lack of available talent, but the answer isn't "there must be at least 2 women's segments per show" and through Deeb, Thunder Rosa, Shida (who isn't signed to AEW but who they've used very well) Baker and then some emerging talents like Conti maybe you have the bones of a real division. But I have sympathy and patience with AEW given the hand they've been dealt with that division. There's basically no TV ready top stars available to sign, and the Joshi wrestler's you'd imagine they'd have built the division around when the company started are not available to them because of Covid restrictions.

Omackeral

Long post but not once did you address my main point. Why should I care about Deeb, Ford, Shanna et al if they get no mic or promo time to tell me their motivations. It’s a storyline and character business as much as it is an athletic one.

LineOfBeauty

Omackeral wrote: »

Long post but not once did you address my main point. Why should I care about Deeb, Ford, Shanna et al if they get no mic or promo time to tell me their motivations. It’s a storyline and character business as much as it is an athletic one.

Shanna is a prelim wrestler, her ceiling isn't above that.

Ford is involved in the main angle for an upcoming Dynamite in a long running heel angle with a wrestler with pretty strong name recognition in Miro so that's definitely something.

Deeb has been presented as an ace veteran babyface champion, wrestles to the gimmick, so if you're into that type of character then Deeb is for you (I am btw) and right now, with her clean victories, they're in the middle of positioning her in a strong role so that they can get across that victories over her actually mean something. A vital role in any division.

There's the answer to your questions, but my prior post was far more interesting.

btw Ford, particularly during the Covid era where AEW roster was depleted, received lots of mic time and a nice mini push.

And anyone that's watched 1 wrestling show in their life will get the Deeb character, it's a simple veteran Ace character.

Omackeral

Ford doesn’t ever talk. She stands there like a mannequin while Miro goes on about being a great gamer and Kip gets the heat on the Mic. Think she got one PPV shot and a throwaway talking bit with Baker and Rebel ages ago. It’s a genuine shame .

You’ve written Shanna off already. I haven’t heard a tap from her. What’s she about?

As for Deeb, yeah I know what she’s like as I’ve seen her and know her. Others might not. Would like to know her motivations. Does she want the AEW title as well as the NWA one? Does she want to elevate it? I don’t know cos she hasn’t got a chance to tell me.

LineOfBeauty

Omackeral wrote: »

Ford doesn’t ever talk. She stands there like a mannequin while Miro goes on about being a great gamer and Kip gets the heat on the Mic. Think she got one PPV shot and a throwaway talking bit with Baker and Rebel ages ago. It’s a genuine shame .

You’ve written Shanna off already. I haven’t heard a tap from her. What’s she about?

As for Deeb, yeah I know what she’s like as I’ve seen her and know her. Others might not. Would like to know her motivations. Does she want the AEW title as well as the NWA one? Does she want to elevate it? I don’t know cos she hasn’t got a chance to tell me.

Penelope is a bit longer in the tooth than the others mentioned, but even so I don't know what people think her ceiling is, especially given that she's been involved quite a bit in Dynamite level angles, so I don't see the problem with what they've done with her.

I've no expectations of Shanna at all, I've seen her maybe like twice outside of AEW and her AEW stuff but she's got practically no charisma, isn't anything special in the ring either and is 38 years old (!). At best lower prelim wrestler.

She's the touring face NWA Women's Champion. Pure veteran babyface. I don't think much else needs to be said about her motivations. Right now they're building her as a strong face champion that eventually a heel can get heat on by beating her, but to do that they need her to look strong in these defences and she has. To me, she's the strongest part of the women's division bell to bell.

ThePott

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

You say it's not a question of talent or depth so what is it? Why would they have, at times, 3 different feuds running on Dynamite that they intentionally want to be bad? How does that make sense?

And tell me, right now what female wrestler under AEW contract is ready to be the top star right now? Britt? She's the top heel and already on TV in prominent segments every week. Who else is there?

Wasn't saying they were intentionally bad, that's ridiculous. I'm saying that they do their talent no favours in this stop/start booking. Nyla Rose could have been a much bigger deal, they show sporadic interest in her at best. Penelope Ford has a lot of talent and potential, she had a strong showing against Shida at Fyter Fest since then, what did they do? She's on Dark most of the time. Saying she's involved isn't much because let's be honest, what has she done in this Miro angle. Stood next to Kip, as I said has she even said anything this whole angle? Big Swole gains momentum she loses a title match, she goes to Dark. Hell they've put Thunder Rosa on Dark plenty too.

Britt is fine, she gets way more time than a lot of the other roster undeservedly in my opinion. The point is AEW cylce women in and out of the title picture and forget about them meanwhile they hardly give their champion Shida a look in, the feud pops up once every two weeks maybe. Saying it takes time to build stars is disingenuous when once someone gains momentum they stick them on Dark and forget about them. How is that building a star?

Omackeral

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Penelope is a bit longer in the tooth than the others mentioned, but even so I don't know what people think her ceiling is, especially given that she's been involved quite a bit in Dynamite level angles, so I don't see the problem with what they've done with her.

She’s been a mute valet and very occasional wrestler. Only wins on Dark. She’s much better than that.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I've no expectations of Shanna at all, I've seen her maybe like twice outside of AEW and her AEW stuff but she's got practically no charisma, isn't anything special in the ring either and is 38 years old (!). At best lower prelim wrestler.

Fair enough. You’re more familiar with her than I am so I’ll take your word on her ability. Just saying I’ve seldom heard from her so why should I care about her. Give her a chance to connect maybe?

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

She's the touring face NWA Women's Champion. Pure veteran babyface. I don't think much else needs to be said about her motivations. Right now they're building her as a strong face champion that eventually a heel can get heat on by beating her, but to do that they need her to look strong in these defences and she has. To me, she's the strongest part of the women's division bell to bell.

The touring champ? Ah come on. She’s hasn’t once defended it outside Daily’s Place. It’s hardly a territory throwback. She’s not booked as that. She’s booked as the technical veteran and she’s damn good but let’s not add character layers when they’re not there. The NWA belt is a prop so far. Why is the NWA title getting booked on an AEW show though? It’s needless and takes away from their own. Why is Deeb #2 in the rankings. Which belt should I care about more. It’s a mess.

beakerjoe

Ford is in the wedding angle, but she hasnt been the focus of it at all. She'd just been there recently. Kip and more so, Miro have been the focus.

Big Swole got my attention a year ago, very little progression since then.

Shida can go but i have no reason to care for her. Always felt Rose should have won the title initially and dominated teh division in the early days then make someone a star by knocking her off.

To be fair to AEW they havent had the luck with injuries to Statlander, Baker and the covid situation. Had things been different the division could be in better shape.

Lithium93_

Just throwing it out, would it help if they brought in someone to help Kenny oversee/write/book the women's division (open to correction that he does that), someone who has an understanding of women's wrestling?

Omackeral

Don’t think we’ll be getting any concessions from this particular argument but I think most of us know what the problems seem to be with the division. Hopefully there’s a bit more focus put on it this year. The powers that be seem to have their finger in the pulse with most stuff so here’s hoping.

beakerjoe

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Just throwing it out, would it help if they brought in someone to help Kenny oversee/write/book the women's division (open to correction that he does that), someone who has an understanding of women's wrestling?

Wrestling is wrestling, its doesnt need someone with experience with Women only.

Shida just feels like she is in a holding pattern until the next big match comes.

Shoehorning womens matches in for the sake of filling a quota wont work nor will focusing on Brandi Rhodes when no one gives two flips about her.

LineOfBeauty

Omackeral wrote: »

She’s been a mute valet and very occasional wrestler. Only wins on Dark. She’s much better than that.



Fair enough. You’re more familiar with her than I am so I’ll take your word on her ability. Just saying I’ve seldom heard from her so why should I care about her. Give her a chance to connect maybe?



The touring champ? Ah come on. She’s hasn’t once defended it outside Daily’s Place. It’s hardly a territory throwback. She’s not booked as that. She’s booked as the technical veteran and she’s damn good but let’s not add character layers when they’re not there. The NWA belt is a prop so far. Why is the NWA title getting booked on an AEW show though? It’s needless and takes away from their own. Why is Deeb #2 in the rankings. Which belt should I care about more. It’s a mess.

I'm not having a go but what do you think the ceiling is for Penelope Ford? I think she's probably near it right now. Maybe the odd title match on a B level ppv or a Dynamite and character work with Kip.

To me the Shanna one is a non runner, she's a prelim act ala Serpentico or Luther or whatever other Dark prelim act you can name.

I mean that's basically what she is, the modern equivalent of the touring champion. A veteran ace character. And the 2 belt thing doesn't seem to annoy me half as much as yourself or some others so maybe I'm out to sea on that one but I just don't see the problem. They've built it up as it being a cool little deal that the NWA Women's Champion wrestles on Dynamite, she's really good so the 2 champion thing doesn't bother me.

LineOfBeauty

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Just throwing it out, would it help if they brought in someone to help Kenny oversee/write/book the women's division (open to correction that he does that), someone who has an understanding of women's wrestling?

To be fair to him, you'd imagine a lot of the early women's division stuff would've been built around more of the joshi wrestlers. So they were a bit hamstrung in that way too.

Omackeral

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'm not having a go but what do you think the ceiling is for Penelope Ford? I think she's probably near it right now. Maybe the odd title match on a B level ppv or a Dynamite and character work with Kip.

That’s my point, no idea because she hasn’t really spoken.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I mean that's basically what she is, the modern equivalent of the touring champion. A veteran ace character. And the 2 belt thing doesn't seem to annoy me half as much as yourself or some others so maybe I'm out to sea on that one but I just don't see the problem. They've built it up as it being a cool little deal that the NWA Women's Champion wrestles on Dynamite, she's really good so the 2 champion thing doesn't bother me.

She’s not the touring champ though as we know it though is she? Hasn’t been presented as such either. That’s an old school trope and can be a good one but it hasn’t been alluded to at all. Oh and having 2 belts doesn’t annoy me, not sure why you’re putting those words out there. Just saying they haven’t addressed it properly. Which belt is more meaningful. What’s the hierarchy?

LineOfBeauty

Omackeral wrote: »

That’s my point, no idea because she hasn’t really spoken.



She’s not the touring champ though as we know it though is she? Hasn’t been presented as such either. That’s an old school trope and can be a good one but it hasn’t been alluded to at all. Oh and having 2 belts doesn’t annoy me, not sure why you’re putting those words out there. Just saying they haven’t addressed it properly. Which belt is more meaningful. What’s the hierarchy?

I'm pretty sure she spoke a fair bit during her mini push over the summer. And again, the timing of this argument isn't great considering she's in one of the big upcoming Dynamite segments. And, maybe it's possible she isn't a very good promo so they protect her by not having her talk and rather Kip does most of the talking instead?

I'd say it's been alluded to quite a bit no? Given that the commentary constantly references that she is the NWA Women's champ, that it's unique that she's taking on AEW talent as the champion of a different promotion ect.
Why should there be a hierarchy? Plus didn't Hikaru Shida defeat NWA Women's Champion (at the time) Thunder Rosa at All Out, short of Jim Ross shouting "our title is better than theirs" it doesn't seem to be that subtle which title is more highly thought of in the company.

And if you're eventually going to do another champion vs champion match then wouldn't you want both champions to come in strong?

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'm pretty sure she spoke a fair bit during her mini push over the summer. And again, the timing of this argument isn't great considering she's in one of the big upcoming Dynamite segments. And, maybe it's possible she isn't a very good promo so they protect her by not having her talk and rather Kip does most of the talking instead?

While shes involved in the angle in a months time, she actually hasnt been involved much recently other than "being there.". Again, that may be down to protecting her and hiding her weaknesses but her involvement has been limited.

Let her have a promo on Dark, let her have a "bridal shower" segments perhaps or a hen night. I sure we will get a bachelor party for Kip and Miro.

The angle seems to be focused more on Miro and Kip (and now Butler CT), but when it all goes wrong in one month, why will I care about what pans out for her? I think she needs to be involved more if i am to care if she gets screwed over or if she turns on anyone. (Its a wedding angle, Im expecting shenanigans.)

beakerjoe

What do people think of Britt Baker ?

I love her character work. Shes really evolved on the mic in the last year and has grown in confidence ten fold.

However, for me shes still way off the pace as an in-ring performer. Reminds me of the Miz in terms of her character and her in-ring ability. Havent enjoyed watching her wrestle much.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

While shes involved in the angle in a months time, she actually hasnt been involved much recently other than "being there.". Again, that may be down to protecting her and hiding her weaknesses but her involvement has been limited.

Let her have a promo on Dark, let her have a "bridal shower" segments perhaps or a hen night. I sure we will get a bachelor party for Kip and Miro.

The angle seems to be focused more on Miro and Kip (and now Butler CT), but when it all goes wrong in one month, why will I care about what pans out for her? I think she needs to be involved more if i am to care if she gets screwed over or if she turns on anyone. (Its a wedding angle, Im expecting shenanigans.)

Maybe some promo time on Dark. She's involved in the angle, it's very much centered around Miro for sure. I'm not gonna lie, I've got no hot takes on Ford, she's fine. Maybe some people here see more potential in her than what her push is, fair enough if they do but I just don't see it. Could they give her a bit more mic time in a more controlled environment (Dark rather than Dynamite) sure. Is the Hen night idea good? Ye, do that on Dark too.

ciaran2054

Given the great work he did with the women in WWE, I wonder if AEW tried to sign Finlay when he was let go earlier last year (prior to being rehired)?

Maybe there was contract issues still at play but if not then they missed a beat.

Neil3030

ciaran2054 wrote: »

Given the great work he did with the women in WWE, I wonder if AEW tried to sign Finlay when he was let go earlier last year (prior to being rehired)?

Maybe there was contract issues still at play but if not then they missed a beat.

Exactly the guy they need, which is 100% the reason why they won't sign him.

beakerjoe

Neil3030 wrote: »

Exactly the guy they need, which is 100% the reason why they won't sign him.

Is he?

A fantastic trainer yes, a booker? I dunno TBH. Was he responsible for booking the womens division in WWE?

Booking is the problem not the training. They have the talent, just need to make stars outta them.

Neil3030

beakerjoe wrote: »

Is he?

A fantastic trainer yes, a booker? I dunno TBH. Was he responsible for booking the womens division in WWE?

Booking is the problem not the training. They have the talent, just need to make stars outta them.

Fair enough - not sure what influence he had over the booking side of things. Do you know who had the book for the angle between Lynch, Charlotte, Rousey etc., that peaked with their WM match?

Agent Coulson

ciaran2054 wrote: »

Given the great work he did with the women in WWE, I wonder if AEW tried to sign Finlay when he was let go earlier last year (prior to being rehired)?

Maybe there was contract issues still at play but if not then they missed a beat.

He wasn’t released he was put on furlough so he was still under WWE contract and the government were subsidised his wages.

2ndcoming

Neil3030 wrote: »

Fair enough - not sure what influence he had over the booking side of things. Do you know who had the book for the angle between Lynch, Charlotte, Rousey etc., that peaked with their WM match?

Vince ultimately as it's a Wrestlemania storyline.

Neil3030

2ndcoming wrote: »

Vince ultimately as it's a Wrestlemania storyline.

Well there you go. AEW need to sign Vince :pac:

CastorTroy

Neil3030 wrote: »

Well there you go. AEW need to sign Vince :pac:

"Breaking - Due to fan demand Vince Russo is All Elite"

2ndcoming

Neil3030 wrote: »

Well there you go. AEW need to sign Vince :pac:

Ha, based on plenty other Wrestlemania storylines I'd say that ship has sailed, unless we really do want to see Sting and Steiner brought back for a month or two every year to main event Double or Nothing