AEW - All Elite Wrestling (*Spoilers for Latest Show*)

Neil3030

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

If you're arguing that AEW'S house style is more dangerous than WWE I'd gladly argue that WWE's ring style is the most dangerous on the planet in numerous respects.

And if you think there's not agents working on match layout with the wrestlers on a live Dynamite then you're completely off base.

And finally, in any other generation you'd not see a team at this stage of their career because they'd still be cutting their teeth on the indies, working out stuff like that spot. Modern wrestling is a ridiculous signing spree of unready talents. Top Flight have potential, that's obvious, but they're still green and need time. That doesn't just go for them, that goes for numerous people and acts across AEW and WWE.

Read my point again and answer without once mentioning WWE.

I don't watch or care about WWE.

Lithium93_

Looks like AEW could have their first Sunday PPV, with Revolution being pencilled in for March 7th. But yet to be officially confirmed.

https://www.f4wonline.com/aew-news/aew-revolution-moving-march-7-first-ever-sunday-pay-view-331126?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

LineOfBeauty

Neil3030 wrote: »

Read my point again and answer without once mentioning WWE.

I don't watch or care about WWE.

If you're arguing that AEW'S house style is hardly any more dangerous than any other company out there, and decidedly less dangerous in many respects than others.

And if you think there's not agents working on match layout with the wrestlers on a live Dynamite then you're completely off base.

And finally, in any other generation you'd not see a team at this stage of their career because they'd still be cutting their teeth on the indies, working out stuff like that spot. Modern wrestling is a ridiculous signing spree of unready talents. Top Flight have potential, that's obvious, but they're still green and need time. That doesn't just go for them, that goes for numerous people and acts across AEW and WWE.


There's your answer.

Furious-Red

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Looks like AEW could have their first Sunday PPV, with Revolution being pencilled in for March 7th. But yet to be officially confirmed.

https://www.f4wonline.com/aew-news/aew-revolution-moving-march-7-first-ever-sunday-pay-view-331126?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Ah hopefully they leave them on Saturday nights, I'm getting to old to stay up all night on a Sunday/Monday morning then go to work :pac:

savemejebus

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'd gladly argue that WWE's ring style is the most dangerous on the planet in numerous respects.

I'd find this interesting. Please elaborate

Lithium93_

Furious-Red wrote: »

Ah hopefully they leave them on Saturday nights, I'm getting to old to stay up all night on a Sunday/Monday morning then go to work :pac:

Just going off the article, I'd say a one off thing.

LineOfBeauty

savemejebus wrote: »

I'd find this interesting. Please elaborate

You can compare the number of in ring injuries in comparison to other companies and WWE will easily come out on top. You can look at serious in ring injuries and again WWE will come out on top (by a good distance I'd imagine too). Recurring injuries caused by fatigue is always going to be higher in WWE because of their scheduled.

That's the easiest way to do it but then there's more technical things. For example how the WWE style does dives to the outside largely differs to other wrestling companies. In WWE you're diving onto a sole catcher the majority of the time, in places like NJPW, Dragon Gate and, to a lesser extent AEW, it's a group of catchers.

savemejebus

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

). Recurring injuries caused by fatigue is always going to be higher in WWE because of their scheduled.

Fully agree with you on this but wouldn't put it under style. With the dives I'd agree and disagree. Agree that multiple catchers is much safer (but ruins matches by looking dumb 95% of the time). Disagree in that if you look at the body positioning the "indie" style of dive is much more dangerous and has a much higher risk to reward ratio. Many of these guys will likely end up like edge, wearing themselves down.

LineOfBeauty

savemejebus wrote: »

Fully agree with you on this but wouldn't put it under style. With the dives I'd agree and disagree. Agree that multiple catchers is much safer (but ruins matches by looking dumb 95% of the time). Disagree in that if you look at the body positioning the "indie" style of dive is much more dangerous and has a much higher risk to reward ratio. Many of these guys will likely end up like edge, wearing themselves down.

Indie guys sure I'd agree, I can live without seeing another stupid dive on a GCW show for as long as I live. I'd say multiple catchers if it's inherently apart of the culture (NJPW with young boys ready for the catch, Dragon Gate with faction affiliates at ringside to catch) it's fine and makes sense in a kayfabe way too. But bad indie dives are absolutely heart in mouth stuff. I'll say that this year I've seen enough gifs of WWE wrestlers badly positioned on dive catches to tell me that they alone shouldn't be trusted to do them.

savemejebus

I guess I'd argue that many in AEW work an 'indy' style . To WWEs credit, outside of dives they've banned or restricted a number of dangerous moves, limiting wrestlers styles (against many protests) to reduce what Mick Foley referred to as vertibrae compressing moves and they try to limit the use of "big" crazy moves to big matches.

I don't see AEW doing that.

Thats not even touching the "wanting to bring unprotected chair shots to the head back for the boys" lunacy.

LineOfBeauty

savemejebus wrote: »

I guess I'd argue that many in AEW work an 'indy' style . To WWEs credit, outside of dives they've banned or restricted a number of dangerous moves, limiting wrestlers styles (against many protests) to reduce what Mick Foley referred to as vertibrae compressing moves and they try to limit the use of "big" crazy moves to big matches.

I don't see AEW doing that.

Thats not even touching the "wanting to bring unprotected chair shots to the head back for the boys" lunacy.

I wouldn't necessarily agree that they work an indie style. On the contrary I really think for example I could make a real strong argument that Cody, Ricky Starks and The Young Bucks are 3 of the best TV wrestlers this year. The house style is less defined than WWE for numerous reasons (not a bad thing) but I think by and large what they allow their younger talents to do, and who they perform with, are generally very carefully planned.

I'd also say that, while it's tough to judge the long term ramifications of a style of a company that's only 2 years old, you can look at the influence of what makes the AEW style (American indies, PWG, NJPW, Dragon Gate) and by and large I'd argue guys from those various styles and companies tend to be in better health in later life than a lot of WWE guys. In particular PWG (high on big spots but often performed by extremely well trained guys), NJPW (which is more wear and tear than anything) and Dragon Gate (whose style is tends to be the most safe because of the unparalleled training) tend to not have the long term physical and other effects that the WWE style does.

Neil3030

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

If you're arguing that AEW'S house style is hardly any more dangerous than any other company out there, and decidedly less dangerous in many respects than others.

And if you think there's not agents working on match layout with the wrestlers on a live Dynamite then you're completely off base.

And finally, in any other generation you'd not see a team at this stage of their career because they'd still be cutting their teeth on the indies, working out stuff like that spot. Modern wrestling is a ridiculous signing spree of unready talents. Top Flight have potential, that's obvious, but they're still green and need time. That doesn't just go for them, that goes for numerous people and acts across AEW and WWE.


There's your answer.

And I don't care what other companies are doing. Defaulting to whataboutery is really showing your hand, just so you know.

Agents involved with that match should be fired. And anyone else involved with letting talent that green go on prime time TV and work those spots should be out the door behind them.

LineOfBeauty

Neil3030 wrote: »

And I don't care what other companies are doing. Defaulting to whataboutery is really showing your hand, just so you know.

Agents involved with that match should be fired. And anyone else involved with letting talent that green go on prime time TV and work those spots should be out the door behind them.

Hardly whatabouttery to explain why there are any number of talents who aren't ready on television on a weekly basis.

If every agent involved in laying out a match with an overly ambitious spot was fired there'd be no agents.

Again, growing pains for talents happen. Conversely, I'm watching a DGUSA show right now from 2010, Ricochet messes up a mouse at the start of the match, gets a little lost, they bring it back and it's an excellent match. But the point is, Ricochet, at that stage, is in roughly the same stage of his career as the Top Flight guys are now. OK it was on ippv, that's not the same as being on a national TV stage but he had the chance to get as polished as he did before arriving in a mainstream company. Top Flight don't have that chance, nobody does, so you have to learn on the fly which is very difficult, one of the kids is 19. The spot just needed a bit more practise, repetition is perfection in pro wrestling.

Neil3030

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Hardly whatabouttery to explain why there are any number of talents who aren't ready on television on a weekly basis.

If every agent involved in laying out a match with an overly ambitious spot was fired there'd be no agents.

Again, growing pains for talents happen. Conversely, I'm watching a DGUSA show right now from 2010, Ricochet messes up a mouse at the start of the match, gets a little lost, they bring it back and it's an excellent match. But the point is, Ricochet, at that stage, is in roughly the same stage of his career as the Top Flight guys are now. OK it was on ippv, that's not the same as being on a national TV stage but he had the chance to get as polished as he did before arriving in a mainstream company. Top Flight don't have that chance, nobody does, so you have to learn on the fly which is very difficult, one of the kids is 19. The spot just needed a bit more practise, repetition is perfection in pro wrestling.

It's whataboutery to bring up other promotions.

I get the need for Top Flight to learn their craft, and the pandemic is a huge issue in that regard, but there has to be a solution that does not involve them going on prime time TV, and absolutely not involving spots that look ridiculous even if they're executed perfectly.

LineOfBeauty

Neil3030 wrote: »

It's whataboutery to bring up other promotions.

I get the need for Top Flight to learn their craft, and the pandemic is a huge issue in that regard, but there has to be a solution that does not involve them going on prime time TV, and absolutely not involving spots that look ridiculous even if they're executed perfectly.

Ye we're talking about 2 different things. I'm talking about execution (not having the time to polish that in modern wrestling) and seeing what gets over and what doesn't in front of a live audience (again, very difficult in current circumstances) and I think you're on about how you don't like flips in your wrestling.

beakerjoe

Top Flight missing a spot isnt the worst thing in the world. Its one spot, relax.

Spots get missed loads by plenty of talent, new and experienced. It happens. It wasnt the worst match either.

Sirsok

beakerjoe wrote: »

Top Flight missing a spot isnt the worst thing in the world. Its one spot, relax.

Spots get missed loads by plenty of talent, new and experienced. It happens. It wasnt the worst match either.

No we will not relax. Top Flight should quit the business and start selling insurance

Top Flight = Top Sh!te

Am I internet arguing correctly?

#Wwe4life

Neil3030

Honestly, what is the OBSESSION with WWE in here? This is the AEW thread. I watched AEW this week. I saw something ridiculous. I commented on it. Why is every second post defending it bringing up WWE?

Agent Coulson

It's a live contact sport with so many variables it's amazing more spots aren't missed every week.

Slaughtering a 19 and 21 year for it is petty as fcuk.

Molly Holly trained them so they are ok in my book.

Sirsok

Neil3030 wrote: »

Honestly, what is the OBSESSION with WWE in here? This is the AEW thread. I watched AEW this week. I saw something ridiculous. I commented on it. Why is every second post defending it bringing up WWE?

Yeah WWE sucks, AEW is the bestest. Randy Orton = Randy Boreton hahahaha am i right?

#AEW2sahwet (Don't cease and desist me dub dub e)

This is my new gimmick BTW....sorry this is my new gimmick BT....E

Neil3030

Agent Coulson wrote: »

It's a live contact sport with so many variables it's amazing more spots aren't missed every week.

Slaughtering a 19 and 21 year for it is petty as fcuk.

Molly Holly trained them so they are ok in my book.

Nobody is slaughtering them. At least on here. But the longer they stay learning from the sort of people who think it's OK for 19/21-year-olds to be trying those spots on TV, the longer their development will stall.

LineOfBeauty

Neil3030 wrote: »

Nobody is slaughtering them. At least on here. But the longer they stay learning from the sort of people who think it's OK for 19/21-year-olds to be trying those spots on TV, the longer their development will stall.

Say what you mean. Who are these "sort of people?"

Neil3030

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Say what you mean. Who are these "sort of people?"

Whoever booked/put together that match.

RollieFingers

Neil3030 wrote: »

And I don't care what other companies are doing. Defaulting to whataboutery is really showing your hand, just so you know.

Agents involved with that match should be fired. And anyone else involved with letting talent that green go on prime time TV and work those spots should be out the door behind them.

Calling for people to be fired and lose their jobs during a pandemic over a botched spot in a wrestling match is really weird.

Omackeral

Calling for a sacking is beyond daft. It’s a bloody spot! What’s the buzz on Ryan Nemeth coming in this week for Dark and Dynamite. I know he’s Dolph Ziggler’s brother and is a bit, shall we say sketchy, but what’s he like in the ring? Seems very out of the blue.

LineOfBeauty

Neil3030 wrote: »

Honestly, what is the OBSESSION with WWE in here? This is the AEW thread. I watched AEW this week. I saw something ridiculous. I commented on it. Why is every second post defending it bringing up WWE?

Here's your original post on the thread

"Doing highly advanced spots should be left to experienced performers who can pull them off convincingly and safely. AEW letting green workers do whatever they want has already gotten talent injured (e.g. Baker). It also makes it very hard for the better segments to win back the audience after they roll their eyes."

In terms of safety the obvious comparison to AEW is going to be WWE (the other major US company doing weekly TV). You're calling into question AEW's safety protocols, so obviously those are going to be measured against the industry leader, that's inevitable.

Then you veer off on safety and it seems that you just hated the idea of the spot itself. I can't say I've ever seen that spot before done by anybody else, but I suspect I'm right in saying that the intricate (and flippy) double team spots are not to your taste. In which case you should probably hand wave AEW's Tag division because it's championed by The Young Bucks (who oversee it in the same way Omega oversees the Women's division) and has tag teams containing the likes of TH2, Jungle Boy, Lucha Brothers, this is clearly not a division for you.

beakerjoe

Omackeral wrote: »

Calling for a sacking is beyond daft. It’s a bloody spot! What’s the buzz on Ryan Nemeth coming in this week for Dark and Dynamite. I know he’s Dolph Ziggler’s brother and is a bit, shall we say sketchy, but what’s he like in the ring? Seems very out of the blue.

No idea,

I know hes was in NXT years ago IIRC. Saw his face on Dynamite a few weeks back and was sure it was him. Then seeing the dark graphic I was like "yeah Im right"......

Neil3030

RollieFingers wrote: »

Calling for people to be fired and lose their jobs during a pandemic over a botched spot in a wrestling match is really weird.

Especially during the pandemic. Hospitals don't need avoidable injuries right now.

LineOfBeauty

Neil3030 wrote: »

Especially during the pandemic. Hospitals don't need avoidable injuries right now.

Oh, did someone end up going to the hospital as a result of that spot? I've not seen that news anywhere.

beakerjoe

Neil3030 wrote: »

Especially during the pandemic. Hospitals don't need avoidable injuries right now.

This is a little bit of a strecth dude, come on.

You had an out of proportion take and your struggling to justify it. Just admit it wasnt that bad