AEW - All Elite Wrestling (*Spoilers for Latest Show*)

Lithium93_

sirmanga wrote: »

So why watch it then?

Not an Arsenal fan though.

Jerichoholic

sirmanga wrote: »

I don't get this argument. I've watched wrestling my entire life. I know how good it can be. That's why I keep watching.
Just like I haven't stopped watching Arsenal matches. God knows I'd be better off if I did. But I'm a fan.

Try New Japan, if you don't like that, forget about it.

Furious-Red

sirmanga wrote: »

Didn't give one spoiler. Maybe I should, spare you from seeing it.

Anyway, back to AEW!.... Unfortunately

Imagine having to talk about AEW in an AEW thread

Jerichoholic

Furious-Red wrote: »

Imagine having to talk about AEW in an AEW thread

It's such a chore

The White Wolf

I don't think this Dark Order thing is all that bad tbh. They need a star to drive it home obviously but the concept is something I can dig. It's just the execution that needs refining.

It's still early days with AEW and patience is needed. Meltzer embarrassed himself by flipping on his pals and declaring this week as the turning point for AEW for the worse.

Cherry_Cola

At least Uno finally has started doing the black paint under the mask now, looked like a tit previously without it.

Itssoeasy

I've seen a clip from AEW this week and it's a guy in a mask "punching" a guy on the mat in the ring and dear god he makes Shane McMahon look like joe Frazier. If he wasn't wearing a mask before he'd have to now. The director didn't help either as he didn't switch cameras quick enough so there is a good amount of time of this guy hitting the mat and no where near the guy he's meant to be punching.

Monokne

The White Wolf wrote: »

I don't think this Dark Order thing is all that bad tbh. They need a star to drive it home obviously but the concept is something I can dig. It's just the execution that needs refining.

It's still early days with AEW and patience is needed. Meltzer embarrassed himself by flipping on his pals and declaring this week as the turning point for AEW for the worse.

By 'Meltzer', do you actually mean 95% of the internet?

The Dark Order is horrendous. 12 no name indy worker jobbers in masks beating up the top stars in your company with horrific, unconvincing offence. It's all time bad. Everyone involved comes off worse. Not only do the top stars suffer and feel less for having to sell for these complete & utter nobodies, but they also lose what little credibility they had left with the hardcore audience because they're now part of the same circus they were supposed to be providing an alternative to. If you're a wrestling fan and you're into hocus pocus, the Fiend does it, but better.

The whole heel group recruiting people is also neutered since the Nightmare Collective and the Inner Circle are doing the exact same storyline at the exact same time.

I can't overstate this. I'm delighted someone, anyone, actually gets enjoyment out of it but it is remarkably counter-productive to the success of that company.

The White Wolf

Monokne wrote: »

By 'Meltzer', do you actually mean 95% of the internet?

The Dark Order is horrendous. 12 no name indy worker jobbers in masks beating up the top stars in your company with horrific, unconvincing offence. It's all time bad. Everyone involved comes off worse. Not only do the top stars suffer and feel less for having to sell for these complete & utter nobodies, but they also lose what little credibility they had left with the hardcore audience because they're now part of the same circus they were supposed to be providing an alternative to. If you're a wrestling fan and you're into hocus pocus, the Fiend does it, but better.

The whole heel group recruiting people is also neutered since the Nightmare Collective and the Inner Circle are doing the exact same storyline at the exact same time.

I can't overstate this. I'm delighted someone, anyone, actually gets enjoyment out of it but it is remarkably counter-productive to the success of that company.

Well I can't argue with that. There should be just one of the Nightmare Realm/inner circle/dark order. It's possible they're trying to be just a tad bit too cute in the long term storytelling.

RollieFingers

The Dark Order stuff is so bad, absolutely awful, and as mentioned above the video of the creeper punching the mat is one of the cringiest wrestling vids I've seen. Less of this sh*te please AEW, more Omega, Luchas, Guevara etc.

Neil3030

I'm holding out hope that the Dark Order stuff has a payoff involving a big star. If they're putting this much effort and resources into getting a fairly average indie tag team over, AEW is doomed.

BUT, as I've mentioned before, this could be a great gimmick for Kenny Omega. He has a niche personality that will not afford a babyface run that gets over with a wider audience. However with his ability to make people look so good in matches, he could be a fantastic hard hitting, creepy heel, that gets guys like Page or Moxley over huge.

Agent Coulson

Luke Harper moves from cult follower to Brodie Lee cult leader.

beakerjoe

AEW really dropped in terms of entertainment this week conpared to last week but still an enjoyable watch.

Positives

The opener was a perfect opener. I love Both Lucha Bros and while they are a great top tier team, i think both have value as individual singles stars. Great fast paced opener and it progressed the Omega Hangman story. Not sure were Pac fits in, but happy to find out.

Jericho and Jungle Boy was fun. Jerichos great matches are behind him but hes still good enough to deliver a decent match with an incredibly talented kid. Perry looked great and the match psychology was well thought out. My only negative was the post finish. I would have liked Jericho to go nuts and destroy Perry post match rather than just watch away. Im notpicking though.

Darby Allan continues to impress me.

Young bucks v SCU was fine but it wasnt as good as last weekd match with PandP. The match last week was great, had a nice build , felt like a big deal and was perfectly worked. While the match was good the lack of time to build the match meant there was little heat in it and made me not care as much.

The negatives

Hated the Dark Order ending. A load of ****tly dressed randos beating up the stars of the roster. The execution of this angle could have been much better, from the look of every Dark Order member involved including Uno, to the fact it over shadowed a good match which should have been better. Indont know where its leading but its been done 1000 times and much better by others.

Baker vs Statlander was poor. Like watching the Miz vs the Miz in terms of in ring offence. Ive no problem with Statlanders gimmick as others do but the action was over cautiosus and each move looked slow without force, bar the awesome finisher. Dont see anything in these two ladies thus far. Hate Brandi Rhodes too so i disliked the post match bollocks.

Cody ripping on people who cant do a cross rhodes was rich as this proved hes not an expert at it despite using it for 10 years. Hes improved loads but hes still not smooth as he thinks he is. He looked sloppy last week and sloppy again this wek.

No MJF. Hes a star and he should be on the show in some capacity. Same goes for Mox. The big stars need to be present in some form week to week.

CastorTroy

Speaking of the Dark Order, it was weird watching the members coming out to surround the ring while the guys in the ring just seemed to ignore them

Monokne

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'm holding out hope that the Dark Order stuff has a payoff involving a big star. If they're putting this much effort and resources into getting a fairly average indie tag team over, AEW is doomed.

BUT, as I've mentioned before, this could be a great gimmick for Kenny Omega. He has a niche personality that will not afford a babyface run that gets over with a wider audience. However with his ability to make people look so good in matches, he could be a fantastic hard hitting, creepy heel, that gets guys like Page or Moxley over huge.

When you mentioned this previously, I read it as a joke as it seemed very very unlikely anyone would actually advocate this! :eek:

Would you have put Triple H in the Spirit Squad? Steve Austin in Los Boricuas? John Cena in 3MB? The Rock in the Oddities? Same thing.

Take the temperature of the room. This gimmick is completely dead on arrival. The audience silence, television ratings, and online reaction tell you all you need to know. It is absolutely baffling to me that you would want to pull Kenny down even further with it. He could be a heel, fine, great, but don't put him with the 12 scuba diver indy workers.

Their best bet is to pull the plug on Dark Order, yesterday.

The White Wolf

It's very soon to be dismissing DO as an Oddities type deal. Given the amount of time they're investing in the angle they clearly have big plans.

The idea in itself is not a bad one and they need time to develop it, but what's not helping is the booking elsewhere is also poor.

Monokne

The White Wolf wrote: »

It's very soon to be dismissing DO as an Oddities type deal. Given the amount of time they're investing in the angle they clearly have big plans.

The idea in itself is not a bad one and they need time to develop it, but what's not helping is the booking elsewhere is also poor.

They are not similar to the Oddites. They're much worse. A bottom of the card act like the Oddities can be sh*t and it's fine. A main event act being this bad is much more damaging.

A reminder, scuba divers masquerading as indy workers:
https://twitter.com/Sec247Pod/status/1208225896005591045?s=20

The White Wolf

As I said the idea in itself is not a bad one, but of course execution like that is obviously quite worrisome.

Monokne

I am not just trying to be contrarian, but the idea is, in fact, a very bad one.

This isn't what people wanted or expected out of AEW. You could get away with it as bad undercard schtick on Raw that a portion of your audience digs but AEW sold itself as thought it would be a sporting presentation, a gritty, realistic promotion. What is telling is all the way back at All Out the crowd were giving Dark Order the silent treatment. Now after a month of vignettes, they are still dead for them and to make matters worse they were positioned at the top of the card.

None of this is to say you are wrong if you enjoy this. If you do, more power to you. Wrestling has a very open palate, we all like different things.

But AEW has to thrive to succeed. They won't lose tens of millions forever. They need to turn a profit at some point. So I can't view the product without a strong mind on how the booking impacts their success or failure. So far, they appear to be going in the wrong direction.

beakerjoe

Monokne wrote: »

I am not just trying to be contrarian, but the idea is, in fact, a very bad one.

This isn't what people wanted or expected out of AEW. You could get away with it as bad undercard schtick on Raw that a portion of your audience digs but AEW sold itself as thought it would be a sporting presentation, a gritty, realistic promotion. What is telling is all the way back at All Out the crowd were giving Dark Order the silent treatment. Now after a month of vignettes, they are still dead for them and to make matters worse they were positioned at the top of the card.

None of this is to say you are wrong if you enjoy this. If you do, more power to you. Wrestling has a very open palate, we all like different things.

But AEW has to thrive to succeed. They won't lose tens of millions forever. They need to turn a profit at some point. So I can't view the product without a strong mind on how the booking impacts their success or failure. So far, they appear to be going in the wrong direction.

While WWE doesnt do it often enough, they arent against killing angles dead if Vince believes they arent working. AEWs Dark Order should go the way of the 2 Kanes angle, the Booker T stalker angle and Mordecai.

Kill it now and move on.

The White Wolf

Well wrestling is a wide palate as you say. I love the realism of NXT. I love the old school simplicity of what the NWA are doing. I also love off the wall ideas like the Ministry of Darkness, or Kane's origin.

Just look at the Kabuki Warriors as an example; painful to watch initially but now, IMO, has ended up being one of the most entertaining things in wrestling right now. It's all down to execution.

beakerjoe

The White Wolf wrote: »

Well wrestling is a wide palate as you say. I love the realism of NXT. I love the old school simplicity of what the NWA are doing. I also love off the wall ideas like the Ministry of Darkness, or Kane's origin.

Just look at the Kabuki Warriors as an example; painful to watch initially but now, IMO, has ended up being one of the most entertaining things in wrestling right now. It's all down to execution.

Everything is wrong about this angle. From the people involved, to the choice of attire, to the timing of the angle ( with 2 other faction recruitment angles currently being showcased as well) whom they have attacked (most top stars in the comapny) along with the fact they are trying to be different from WWE (rehashing angles theyve done much much better).

Its just not working for me.

I want AEW to succeed.... WWE needs competition. This isnt the way to go about providing an alternative.

CastorTroy

It's a group of guys in masks. Then they recruit 2 guys that I'm not familiar with and so couldn't care less they're recruited. I'm sure I'm not the only one. And now that they're recruited, does that mean they'll always wear masks going forward.
And how many factions started with a big group of guys in masks? I'm sure we'll see someone like Daniels pretend to be one in order to attack them. And I choose Daniels since he's already done the mask thing at least twice recently

Agent Coulson

Dark Order Leader.

It was me AEW It was me all along!

montyrebel

anyone else feel like the dark order is a worse aces and eights?

Cherry_Cola

montyrebel wrote: »

anyone else feel like the dark order is a worse aces and eights?

It's too early to tell I think. The actor they have doing the video packages is very good and has the perfect creepy tone for it. Would be great if he was used more as a recruiter of sorts from the head person in it. The masks are terrible, would be good to see those changed up. The Beaver Boys weren't built up enough beforehand for them to be a shock addition. I think Chris Daniels will go in for sure and add some credibility.


I think a few more 3rd men will be joining - they'll try target Marko again perhaps and one of the best friends. It will probably culminate in a few teams having to band together to defeat them - War Games rip off match perhaps? Seems like it'll go the way of one of those ****e Marvel movies anyway. I think it's okay so far, lots of cool things they could do with it.

Neil3030

Monokne wrote: »

Would you have put Triple H in the Spirit Squad? Steve Austin in Los Boricuas? John Cena in 3MB? The Rock in the Oddities? Same thing.

Omega is over with a mainstream audience to the same level as these guys?

Monokne

Neil3030 wrote: »

Omega is over with a mainstream audience to the same level as these guys?

He is supposedly one of the top 3 or 4 stars in the promotion, which those guys were.

And like I said, if you like it, crack on. Campy, stupid, ludicrous stuff has a place in wrestling. Some of my best memories as a kid are silly garbage like Jake & The Warrior or Undertaker & Yoko. I'm not against silly, goofy dark stuff in wrestling. I can enjoy it for the so bad it's good. I just think it's wrong place, wrong time. If this was on Dark and they were beating up Michael Nakazawa, I'd get a giggle out of it too.

Jerichoholic

That's gotta be Shane McMahon in the mask throwing those punches.

Neil3030

Monokne wrote: »

He is supposedly one of the top 3 or 4 stars in the promotion, which those guys were.

And like I said, if you like it, crack on. Campy, stupid, ludicrous stuff has a place in wrestling. Some of my best memories as a kid are silly garbage like Jake & The Warrior or Undertaker & Yoko. I'm not against silly, goofy dark stuff in wrestling. I can enjoy it for the so bad it's good. I just think it's wrong place, wrong time. If this was on Dark and they were beating up Michael Nakazawa, I'd get a giggle out of it too.

To be clear, I'm not saying anything to defend the Dark Order. So far it's a complete swing and a miss.

Moxley, Jericho, MJF and Cody are their top guys. They are the only ones who have been booked strong and/or gotten over with their promos. So out of that group, only Cody took a bump for the DO last week, and he can recover from that, no major harm has been done.

Omega and The Bucks have the workrate to be useful in the top tier of AEW, but they have so far booked themselves as nobodies and failed to do anything significant with their mike time. Their credit earned on the Indies or in Japan is irrelevant. They are nobodies to the bulk of the TV audience, so bumping for the DO doesn't change a whole lot.