AEW - All Elite Wrestling (*Spoilers for Latest Show*)

Monokne

Sirsok wrote: »

Fair enough, Hawk and Hall were two topics I wanted to bring up because they were written so poorly in my opinion. Loads of stuff in history written poorly dealing with topics we discussed. Sgt. Slaughter Iraqi sympathizer, Katie Vick, Booker T never gonna be champion because of how he looks and then losing said match. Bad writting again

Ambrose saying stuff about Reigns Cancer, or Orton talking about Eddie being in hell, were horrible, shock value stuff. But in all honesty Paul bearer death in lead up to Mania 29, was done well.

If done right these elements can absolutely work, but there is a fine line in making it work, I think would make for a pretty good off shoot company, lead to intricate storylines but if done wrong can end up like the south park episode.

But gauging stuff of people complaining off twitter is wrong, as Twitter is a cesspool for attention seekers.

I think we are kind of agreeing anyway

Say on on the topic of race or immigration

Good Idea -
JBL getting heat by being a conservative beating people up at the border

Jack Swagger, we the people

Bad Idea -

Kerwin White in general

Mexicools Gimmick

Booker T failing to win title at Mania and recording no real redemption

I agree that twitter is not the best gauge. #CancelWWENetwork trended in January 2015 on the same day WWE network broke its subscriber record at the time.

I was factoring in business metrics over time rather than just social media opinion but I can understand why you'd be responding to twitter as voices can seem very loud on there.

sirmanga

sky88 wrote: »

I’d say that’s most wrestling fans in America anyway

That's way off. Wrestling fans now, or at least the most prominent ones, are one and the same as the professionally offended, cancel culture, social justice crowd. If a wrestler cut a pro-Trump promo, not only would the fans boo him out of the building, but people would be going through that wrestler's ten year old tweets to try and find something "problematic"
Sad times.

sirmanga

I've tried to start off on a clean slate with AEW for 2020, but God help me, I just can't stand Cody. He's so disingenuous, and I simply don't get him or why fans think of him as some kind of god. He wanders around everywhere in his suit and thigh length jacket like he's a discount Adam Barlow from Coronation Street.
He comes a cross as the most insufferable knob in all of wrestling.

Neil3030

sirmanga wrote: »

I've tried to start off on a clean slate with AEW for 2020, but God help me, I just can't stand Cody. He's so disingenuous, and I simply don't get him or why fans think of him as some kind of god. He wanders around everywhere in his suit and thigh length jacket like he's a discount Adam Barlow from Coronation Street.
He comes a cross as the most insufferable knob in all of wrestling.

I think Cody is one of the most natural babyface characters in the business right now. He was pissed on in WWE, forced to dress up as some kind of glittery alien, and predictably got nowhere. He could have taken easy money to continue humiliating himself but instead went out to stay true to his heritage and his love for the business; he went to Japan, worked on his character, worked ROH, worked the indies, built a following, built strong relations with the Bucks, Omega, etc. took the punt on the All In show and was probably the most instrumental personality in both conceiving AEW and getting the backing from Khan.

As for his attire, if I recall, it started with the American Nightmare gimmick he used in Japan and I guess he stuck with it. It may have started off serving some sinister gaijin gangster look, but I'm sure it also sends a visual message to people who gave him such dreadful gimmicks in the past that this is the star he really is, and they completely dropped the ball with him. It's also a throwback to when top guys all wore suits for media work, not just wrestling, but boxing too.

sky88

I’m not really a fan of Cody I do feel he’s very smary/fake but god I respect what he’s done everything he’s done since leaving wwe has been so smart and he’s cultivated a fan base brilliantly

I’ve been thinking I think he stands out so much from the rest of AEW wrestlers as he has a very wwe style to him we’re as a lot of the others same indie/japan inspired style

Monokne

sirmanga wrote: »

I've tried to start off on a clean slate with AEW for 2020, but God help me, I just can't stand Cody. He's so disingenuous, and I simply don't get him or why fans think of him as some kind of god. He wanders around everywhere in his suit and thigh length jacket like he's a discount Adam Barlow from Coronation Street.
He comes a cross as the most insufferable knob in all of wrestling.

He's not disingenuous at all, on the contrary, the reason people like him is because he's genuine and comes across that way to most.

Monokne

Neil3030 wrote: »

I think Cody is one of the most natural babyface characters in the business right now. He was pissed on in WWE, forced to dress up as some kind of glittery alien, and predictably got nowhere. He could have taken easy money to continue humiliating himself but instead went out to stay true to his heritage and his love for the business; he went to Japan, worked on his character, worked ROH, worked the indies, built a following, built strong relations with the Bucks, Omega, etc. took the punt on the All In show and was probably the most instrumental personality in both conceiving AEW and getting the backing from Khan.

As for his attire, if I recall, it started with the American Nightmare gimmick he used in Japan and I guess he stuck with it. It may have started off serving some sinister gaijin gangster look, but I'm sure it also sends a visual message to people who gave him such dreadful gimmicks in the past that this is the star he really is, and they completely dropped the ball with him. It's also a throwback to when top guys all wore suits for media work, not just wrestling, but boxing too.

All of this.

He is the most authentic babyface in the industry since CM Punk in 2011 or Bryan in 2014.

J. Marston

Monokne wrote: »

All of this.

He is the most authentic babyface in the industry since CM Punk in 2011 or Bryan in 2014.

There was nothing authentic about Punk's run. It was based on bitterness and him pulling the curtain back even more than it already was. That pipebomb promo did far more damage than good in the long run, in my opinion. It gave the bitchy, internet fans more legitimacy.

Bryan in 2014 was a pure wrestling babyface. The best face storyline of this century for me.

sirmanga

Monokne wrote: »

All of this.

He is the most authentic babyface in the industry since CM Punk in 2011 or Bryan in 2014.

Punk was not very authentic. He was whinging, sitting down with his legs folded like a child, until he got his own way.
Punk comes across as such a sanctimonious prick, that's why he's a great heel. Even the man himself recognised this.
Bryan is a good example, I agree. Although, dare I say, he too is better as a heel.

Neil3030

Totally agree on Punk and the pipebomb doing more harm than good, and yeah Bryan is just so talented he can play either side of the ball.

Tanahashi is about the only pure whitemeat babyface in the business right now, probably.

Monokne

sirmanga wrote: »

Punk was not very authentic. He was whinging, sitting down with his legs folded like a child, until he got his own way.
Punk comes across as such a sanctimonious prick, that's why he's a great heel. Even the man himself recognised this.
Bryan is a good example, I agree. Although, dare I say, he too is better as a heel.

Eh...did you mistype? This doesn't make any sense.

Yes, he was whinging, sitting down with his legs folded like a child until he got his own way. Yes he came across as a sanctimonious prick.

What is it that's not authentic about that? It's exactly who he is.

sirmanga

Monokne wrote: »

Eh...did you mistype? This doesn't make any sense.

Yes, he was whinging, sitting down with his legs folded like a child until he got his own way. Yes he came across as a sanctimonious prick.

What is it that's not authentic about that? It's exactly who he is.

That's fair. I guess what I mean is that he wasn't an authentic babyface character. Most definitely he came across as authentic as to how he seems in real life, but as an authentic "babyface" on TV, which is what I was responding to, he was just a miserable drip. Far better as a heel. An excellent heel, in fact!

Monokne

sirmanga wrote: »

That's fair. I guess what I mean is that he wasn't an authentic babyface character. Most definitely he came across as authentic as to how he seems in real life, but as an authentic "babyface" on TV, which is what I was responding to, he was just a miserable drip. Far better as a heel. An excellent heel, in fact!

What defined him as a babyface - and make no mistake, he was a GREAT babyface for a period and could have been much bigger if they had capitalised on it - was that he spoke for the audience. Everyone was sick and tired of Vince's wrestling and hearing someone so openly and vehemently express their frustrations resonated.

Whether you love or hate him, WWE really whiffed on that moment. That promo broke through to mainstream culture and for a minute, wrestling felt relevant again. Then he won the title, walked out, came back in 8 days, lost the belt, lost to Triple H and got buried by Kevin Nash who then no showed when it was time for him to do the favours for Punk. What spectacularly bad booking.

2ndcoming

Personally I have great time for Cody's character, but I do think the way they're booking the wife makes the whole thing a bit confusing:

Cody Rhodes - American Nightmare - most over face in the company - old school straight shooting good guy - presumably head of Nightmare Family.

Brandi Rhodes - Nightmare Family - arch heel of women's division - going around with her monster cutting off chunks of people's hair.

Monokne

That makes zero sense. Straight out of WWE, that.

RollieFingers

Never thought I would see Dr. Luther on a wrestling show on an American television network, serious blast from the past, he did some good hardcore stuff for WAR and IWA in the 90s.

sirmanga

I thought AEW were all about long term, slow burn storylines?
Moxley joins the Inner Circle and swerves on Jericho all in the same segment. They had weeks worth of story there. This company is incapable of doing storylines.

Ali Bomaye

I thought it was a very good tag match to open the show this week. I enjoy Omega & Page teaming together. Post match cut to the back where Pac is attacking Nakazawa. Wonder what happened 3 weeks ago when Pac had Nakazawa all tied up.

Then after that Statlander and Riho are having a decent match until the Nightmare Collective come out to ruin it with interference. This was terrible. This was followed up by a match with a distraction finish, followed by the Dark Order in the post match angle. This was an utterly horrendous half hour or so of television.

Decent tag then between the Rhodes Brothers and Lucha Brothers. But I cannot understand why they continue to beat the Lucha Brothers like a drum. Surely if they need to do this match Dustin should be taking the fall. Two weeks in a row they've had Fenix take a fall.

Segment with MJF and DDP was horrendous. So DDP plugs all his stuff then takes out the Butcher and Blade with diamond cutters while MJF and Wardlow just look on. Then Wardlow and MJF attack DDP before QT Matshall comes out to make the save. Everything about this is so bad.

Jurassic Express v Best Friends was fine.

Final segment was decent fun but kind of dragged as I was just waiting for Mox to hit the DDT the whole time.

Definitely their worst episode yet. This isn't an alternative. This is the same crap with a different name.

CastorTroy

Think that's the longest I've seen Cassidy in the ring since he joined

Monokne

sirmanga wrote: »

I thought AEW were all about long term, slow burn storylines?
Moxley joins the Inner Circle and swerves on Jericho all in the same segment. They had weeks worth of story there. This company is incapable of doing storylines.

I don't think the idea was he was actually joining. And I thought that was relatively clear from watching it

Agent Coulson

AEW 947K
NXT 721K

Monokne

Reasonable episode of Dynamite.

Thought JR was great on the call noting that there's "a lot of recruiting going on here tonight". As a fan, it's slapping me in the face that there are three of the exact same angles on the same show and it feels inauthentic for the announcers not to notice, good on Ross for addressing that.

The Mox-Jericho angle was what it should have been and well done.

The Omega-Page build is good.

The Nightmare Collective is really, really bad. As much as I don't think the Dark Order resonates, Brandi & co. are like a bad tribute act to the same gimmick. Kong and Mel have nothing, Brandi doesn't work in the role. Seeing her in that leather dress didn't hurt my feelings, mind you.

Lucha bros - Brotherhood was ok.

beakerjoe

For all the grief Ill give the dark order, I must admit I like Uno as a promo guy but hes got to lose that mask. Its fine for in ring competitors but it does nothing for him as the focal point of the group.

And whats Dr Luther doing? Such an odd addition in many respects.

gerrybbadd

beakerjoe wrote: »

And whats Dr Luther doing? Such an odd addition in many respects.

His appearing screams of a favour for Jericho really

Agent Coulson

If it's true the Dark Order are waiting for the leader to end his contract in WWE then I'm all for the wait.

Monokne

I'm not sold on that.

62 year old Chris Jericho as your top heel leading a group maybe just about gets away with it, but 45 year old Matt Hardy on top of another and it really feels like a retirement league, doesn't it?

CastorTroy

Unless by "his" you're referring to The Man?

HanFiredFirst

Jericho is looking and working really good for a 62 year old. If half the 20 somethings even looked half as good or worked half as good as a 62 year old Jericho the wrestling world would be in a really good place. AEW did well pulling off having a 62 year old Jericho to be the face of the company.

I've just seen Awesome Kong, dressed as a Roman pirate gladiator, acting as a henchwoman for Brandi Rhodes.

Not even Christopher Daniels could come close to saving that atrocious segment he was involved in.

A potentially great tag-team like Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy are stuck with an infant. Jungle Boy is hardly Billy Jack Haynes but he looks like it standing beside Stunt.

Luchasaurus is a highlight of the AEW roster and he's stuck in a nonsense match selling to a fella rooting around for change.

Adiboo

Monokne wrote: »

I'm not sold on that.

62 year old Chris Jericho as your top heel leading a group maybe just about gets away with it, but 45 year old Matt Hardy on top of another and it really feels like a retirement league, doesn't it?

HanFiredFirst wrote: »

Jericho is looking and working really good for a 62 year old. If half the 20 somethings even looked half as good or worked half as good as a 62 year old Jericho the wrestling world would be in a really good place. AEW did well pulling off having a 62 year old Jericho to be the face of the company.

He's 49.