Legislation to make organ donations automatic

Gadgetman496

ORGAN donation after death will be automatic unless stated otherwise under new laws set to be drafted in next month.

Health Minister Simon Harris will introduce the legislation to make Ireland an “opt-out country”.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/legislation-make-organ-donations-automatic-15617891

The Pheasant2

Sensible idea

pleas advice

Decision rests with the family, as it always did.
Welcome move though

work

Great and I hope this helps, opt out is a fantastic idea. It looks like the family can however prevent the donation. I would be mightily p!ssed if my wishes were for donation and they were not followed.

Dravokivich

Surely this goes against one of the main ideas of GDPR. No database should list someone, with an opt-out to remove them from it.

Gadgetman496

pleas advice wrote: »

Decision rests with the family, as it always did.
Welcome move though

Not necessarily.

If a person is on the opt-out register, their next-of-kin will not be asked to discuss organ donation.

Snotty

Dravokivich wrote: »

Surely this goes against one of the main ideas of GDPR. No database should list someone, with an opt-out to remove them from it.

The database would contain the name of those that opt out, everyone else is "in" without the need to be listed individually.

uck51js9zml2yt

I wont be donating any of my organs .


Medication I'm on stops me being of value in this regard.

Dravokivich

Snotty wrote: »

The database would contain the name of those that opt out, everyone else is "in" without the need to be listed individually.

You can't put someone down by default and make them opt out. It has to be opt in.

Guy:Incognito

Dravokivich wrote: »

You can't put someone down by default and make them opt out. It has to be opt in.

You can and it very much doesnt have to be opt in.

Plenty of places are opt out.

GreeBo

Dravokivich wrote: »

You can't put someone down by default and make them opt out. It has to be opt in.

Only the people who opt out of donations will be on any list.
They are agreeing to be on that list, I.e. Opting in.
Everyone else continues as normal until dead, when gdpr becomes irrelevant anyway.

Rubberchikken

completely in favour of organ donation and whoeverwants mine will be very welcome to them but i dont believe for one minute that Simon harris could organise a cat fight so ill hold out on this legislation til ill see what happens.

ants09

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You can and it very much doesnt have to be opt in.

Plenty of places are opt out.

The GDPR lists specific requirements for lawful consent requests, but must also be given with a clear affirmative action.

In other words, individuals need a mechanism that requires a deliberate action to opt in, as opposed to pre-ticked boxes.

Although the GDPR doesn’t specifically ban opt-out consent, the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) says that opt-out options “are essentially the same as pre-ticked boxes, which are banned”.

TheChizler

Dravokivich wrote: »

You can't put someone down by default and make them opt out. It has to be opt in.

For inclusion on certain databases yes. It doesn't govern any time anyone uses the phrase "opt out" however.

GDPR doesn't govern opting out from organ donation unless there's a database involved (and legislation could possibly make that use GDPR exempt anyway). If you opt out from organ donation you're opting in to be included on the list. Different uses of the phrase.

ants09

GreeBo wrote: »

Only the people who opt out of donations will be on any list.
They are agreeing to be on that list, I.e. Opting in.
Everyone else continues as normal until dead, when gdpr becomes irrelevant anyway.

You can't agree to be on the list by default. Under GDPR you have to opt in.

ants09

TheChizler wrote: »

For inclusion on certain databases yes. It doesn't govern all uses of the phrase opt out however.

Opt-out options “are essentially the same as pre-ticked boxes, which are banned”.

Atlantic Dawn

I'm kind of on the fence with it, one part of me says what's the point in putting perfectly good body parts in the ground which could save someones life, another part of me says what right has the goverment to harvest a body for parts. I think each person in the country should have to specify either for or against what they want to become of their body and be legally required to do so before X date.

ants09

ants09 wrote: »

You can't agree to be on the list by default. Under GDPR you have to opt in.

What he's saying is that the list is for those who don't want to be donors. I. E. You are opting in to the non-donor database

TheChizler

ants09 wrote: »

Opt-out options “are essentially the same as pre-ticked boxes, which are banned”.

For a specific meaning in relation to databases. It doesn't come in to play any time someone says "opt out".

For instance I could opt out of this conversation any time, that didn't mean there's been a GDPR breach as the appropriate protocols weren't followed when I joined the conversation, I'm just using a phrase. That meaning has a much to do with GDPR as saying you don't want to donate your organs.

People bring up GDPR at every turn, it really has to be one of the most widely and incorrectly invoked in conversation regulations ever, no offence intended to anyone.

ants09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What he's saying is that the list is for those who don't want to be donors. I. E. You are opting in to the non-donor database

Clearly you don't understand GDPR

ants09

TheChizler wrote: »

For a specific meaning in relation to databases. It doesn't come in to play any time someone says "opt out".

What part if GDPR are you relying on.

As under GDPR you have to opt in not opt out.

Just because some places use the opt out thing, doesn't make it legal

dave699

Think its a great idea. Should've been brought in years ago.

GreeBo

ants09 wrote: »

You can't agree to be on the list by default. Under GDPR you have to opt in.

there is no list.

Only the people who opt out of donations are on a list.

TheChizler

ants09 wrote: »

What part if GDPR are you relying on.

As under GDPR you have to opt in not opt out.

Just because some places use the opt out thing, doesn't make it legal

You're opting in to inclusion on the list of people who do not wish to donate organs. This statement has GDPR connotations.

Another way of saying this is that you're opting out of organ donation (note no mention of a list). This has no direct GDPR connotations.

You're not opting out of being on a list, you're option or if doing something.

It's English people...

ants09

GreeBo wrote: »

there is no list.

Only the people who opt out of donations are on a list.

There is no list.
But then you say only the people who opt out be on the list.
So yes there is a list
Then GDPR is applicable and you can't opt out to be on that list.
Simon Harris is in cloud co co land and yes he bring this to the dial.
The AG will advise him that you can't opt out to be on a list.

TheChizler

ants09 wrote: »

There is no list.
But then you say only the people who opt out be on the list.
So yes there is a list
Then GDPR is applicable and you can't opt out to be on that list.
Simon Harris is in cloud co co land and yes he bring this to the dial.
The AG will advise him that you can't opt out to be on a list.

Please tell me you're winding us up!

ants09

TheChizler wrote: »

You're opting in to inclusion on the list of people who do not wish to donate organs. This statement has GDPR connotations.

Another way of saying this is that you're opting out of organ donation (note no mention of a list). This has no direct GDPR connotations.

You're not opting out of being on a list, you're option or if doing something.

It's English people...

You can't be on a list by default ie organ donation and then have to opt out if you don't want to donate your organs.

GDPR is very specific, you have to be given the option to opt in not opt out.

ants09

ants09 wrote: »

Clearly you don't understand GDPR

<snip> Here it is in plain English. Everybody who wants to keep their organs after death has to opt-in to a database stating they wish to do so.

ants09

TheChizler wrote: »

Please tell me you're winding us up!

As if.

ants09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Clearly you're being a condescending wind up merchant. Here it is in plain English. Everybody who wants to keep their organs after death has to opt-in to a database stating they wish to do so.

You a problem with my message report it.

ants09

ants09 wrote: »

You can't be on a list by default ie organ donation and then have to opt out if you don't want to donate your organs.

GDPR is very specific, you have to be given the option to opt in not opt out.

There is no list of organ donors. There is a list of those who don't want to donate.

TheChizler

ants09 wrote: »

You can't be on a list by default ie organ donation and then have to opt out if you don't want to donate your organs.

GDPR is very specific, you have to be given the option to opt in not opt out.

Ah you're definitely on a wind up cause it's been stated several times that you're not on a list by default, you're only put on it when you state your preference.

That was fun, you had me going there!

Rew

There is a lot of misunderstanding of GDPR. The opt in thing is simply that consent must be freely given. Its explicitly legal under GDPR to store data to comply with other laws so if they bring in this and it says to opt out you go on the DB its covered 2 fold

1- your consenting to your details being stored as opting out of organ donation and
2 - the law would require a data base of opt outs be maintained.

ants09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is no list of organ donors. There is a list of those who don't want to donate.

Doh
So there is a list but for opt out.
🀔 yea gdpr still applies and you can't opt out to be on this list

gozunda

Well the state effectively has a significant share in everything you own, earn or inherit. Now they own your corpse as well or at least the bits they want.

Sorry but I just have to post this ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-pU8TFsg0

endacl

ants09 wrote: »

Simon Harris is in cloud co co land and yes he bring this to the dial.

The cloud has a county council now?

What does the dial go up to?

Etc.

prinzeugen

How "dead" do you need to be before donations are considered?

Who makes the decision? There have been plenty of "dead" people that have gone on to survive after months in a coma.

Are doctors going to start recommending turning of life support machines because little Johnny in another ward needs a liver?

It should remain an opt in thing only. Do they still have organ donor cards? Not seen them in years.

ants09

Age of consent to medical treatment and to processing of personal data

Consent to treatment

GDPR does not affect the legal age at which patients can consent to medical treatment. A minor aged 16 can consent to medical treatment.

Patients over 18 are entitled to consent to psychiatric treatment, organ or tissue donation or participation in medical research.

TheChizler

prinzeugen wrote: »

How "dead" do you need to be before donations are considered?

Explanatory video two posts above yours.

ants09

ants09 wrote: »

Doh
So there is a list but for opt out.
🀔 yea gdpr still applies and you can't opt out to be on this list

I never stated there was no list. I was explaining the other poster's comment as it seemed like you had trouble understanding what he was saying. I now realise you're being pedantic, at best. See rew's post above. Clearly you don't understand GDPR.

This is new legislation that is being introduced. What would happen if, say, they passed legislation to lower the drink driving limit further and the courts were full of shams saying they never signed up for the new limits?

Hercule Poirot

I'm guessing this stems from the majority of people who have a "sure I'm dead, what I do care? they can have them if they want" attitude but don't actively register or get an organ donor card

My issue is that there is a responsibility from the state to inform everyone living in this country of the new status quo, and that's the part I just know they will make a balls of

TheChizler

ants09 wrote: »

GDPR does not affect the legal age at which patients can consent to medical treatment.

Of course it doesn't, because it only has to do with processing and storing data. The clue is in the name.

Guy:Incognito

prinzeugen wrote: »

How "dead" do you need to be before donations are considered?

Who makes the decision? There have been plenty of "dead" people that have gone on to survive after months in a coma.

Are doctors going to start recommending turning of life support machines because little Johnny in another ward needs a liver?

It should remain an opt in thing only. Do they still have organ donor cards? Not seen them in years.

Why do you think doctors will decide to kill you to save someone else. They're not on commission.

ants09

endacl wrote: »

The cloud has a county council now?

What does the dial go up to?

Etc.

Meant cuckoo

But hey maybe county council of endacl lol

ants09

TheChizler wrote: »

Of course it doesn't, because it only has to do with processing and storing data. The clue is in the name.

Read the rest off the message

The clue is in the full message not just the first 5 words

prinzeugen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why do you think doctors will decide to kill you to save someone else. They're not on commission.

Yet.. Watch the oath go out the window.

Rew

Rew wrote: »

There is a lot of misunderstanding of GDPR. The opt in thing is simply that consent must be freely given. Its explicitly legal under GDPR to store data to comply with other laws so if they bring in this and it says to opt out you go on the DB its covered 2 fold

1- your consenting to your details being stored as opting out of organ donation and
2 - the law would require a data base of opt outs be maintained.

Any response to this post, ants09?

Hercule Poirot

prinzeugen wrote: »

Yet.. Watch the oath go out the window.

I highly doubt doctors will murder patients to get organs

TheChizler

ants09 wrote: »

Read the rest off the message

The clue is in the full message not just the first 5 words

The middle 15 words actually but who's counting.

What has the rest of that post got to do with data protection or organ donation? Unless you think organ donation is a form of medical treatment for the donor, in which case you're in for a surprise...

prinzeugen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any response to this post, ants09?

Its not clear cut. We all remember the emails when GDPR came in. There were 2 versions from sites etc..

1 - If you do not reply to this we will remove you from our list

2- If you do not reply we presume you are happy for us to retain your details.

BBC Watchdog did a piece about it it and both are legal.

There is a false assumption that GDRP made companies/institutions wipe your data.

You still need to opt out in some cases.

brendanwalsh

The NOK always have to give consent for organ harvesting so this plan is a waste of time.