Legislation to make organ donations automatic

tjhook

I think the government should be more honest. Stop calling it "organ donation". Donation is an act - I.e. the person performing the donation is actively doing so.

Taking organs unless you object - that's not donation, that's appropriation.

If they're honest, they'll rename it "organ appropriation".

Candamir

gaelwave wrote: »

My body my choice.

Not your body anymore. Not when you’re dead.

El_Duderino 09

Candamir wrote: »

Not your body anymore. Not when you’re dead.

But you still get the choice about what happens after you're dead. That's right and proper.

This is a complete storm in a teacup. Anyone who cares enough to Google "organ donation opt out" and tick the box, will be opted out. Those who don't care enough to do that, obviously don't care one way or the other. So I'm confident that anyone who wants to opt out will do so.

Hal3000

When our Health Minister shows proof that he's also choosing to donate his organs on passing then I'll do it. Until then, I'm out !

batgoat

Hal3000 wrote: »

When our Health Minister shows proof that he's also choosing to donate his organs on passing then I'll do it. Until then, I'm out !

I couldn't give a damn on if he is... In the event of my organs being useful to a person upon my death, they're free to take them. You're coming across as a tad petty.

El_Duderino 09

Hal3000 wrote: »

When our Health Minister shows proof that he's also choosing to donate his organs on passing then I'll do it. Until then, I'm out !

Ok. You’re free to opt out - or you will soon be free to opt out. But you have no right to ask for anyone else’s medical information. He can volunteer his info if he wants but it’s silly to expect anyone to share that kind of personal info. and I wouldn’t criticise him whether he opts out or not. It’s a person decision.

Ipso

Hal3000 wrote: »

When our Health Minister shows proof that he's also choosing to donate his organs on passing then I'll do it. Until then, I'm out !

Maybe opt out of receiving an organ while you’re at it.

Candamir

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But you still get the choice about what happens after you're dead. That's right and proper.

This is a complete storm in a teacup. Anyone who cares enough to Google "organ donation opt out" and tick the box, will be opted out. Those who don't care enough to do that, obviously don't care one way or the other. So I'm confident that anyone who wants to opt out will do so.

You don’t really. Your next of kin do, within reason. You can let them know your wishes, but there’s no obligation on them to carry out your wishes.
Which is part of the problem with the current opt in system. Many people who have donor cards or who have expressed their wish to be donors after their death don’t have those wishes realised.

I’m all for an opt out system. I’ve no use for my organs when I’m gone. If someone else can use them, they’re welcome to them.

AulWan

I will be opting out and making sure my relatives know my wishes, because I don't think I would trust government / the HSE to operate and maintain such an opt out list correctly or efficiently.

With an opt out list, you can guarantee there will be mistakes made, and organs taken from those who otherwise would never have wanted their organs donated. I would be nervous about it.

Ipso

AulWan wrote: »

I will be opting out and making sure my relatives know my wishes, because I don't think I would trust government / the HSE to operate and maintain such an opt out list correctly or efficiently.

With an opt out list, you can guarantee there will be mistakes made, and organs taken from those who otherwise would never have wanted their organs donated. I would be nervous about it.

Are you going to opt out as a recipient, you wouldn’t want someone elses violation to save you.

El_Duderino 09

Candamir wrote: »

You don’t really. Your next of kin do, within reason. You can let them know your wishes, but there’s no obligation on them to carry out your wishes.
Which is part of the problem with the current opt in system. Many people who have donor cards or who have expressed their wish to be donors after their death don’t have those wishes realised.

I’m all for an opt out system. I’ve no use for my organs when I’m gone. If someone else can use them, they’re welcome to them.

That would be exactly my attitude too. But i think the state should respect the family’s wishes too. You can see how sensitive some people are to conspiracy theories about how the big bad state is after your organs.

El_Duderino 09

Ipso wrote: »

Maybe opt out of receiving an organ while you’re at it.

Lol. I’d expect them to complain that the government is after your organs. But if they needed a transplant they’d complain that the government didn’t get an organ quick enough.

Altruism doesn’t even enter into the equation for some people.

matiasbloom

can't believe it is possible one day

Timberrrrrrrr

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lol. I’d expect them to complain that the government is after your organs. But if they needed a transplant they’d complain that the government didn’t get an organ quick enough.

Altruism doesn’t even enter into the equation for some people.

This!

If one of them or their children needed an new organ they would be forever thankful to the person who had the decency to be a donor and gave them/their child a second chance at life.

Hal3000

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

This!

If one of them or their children needed an new organ they would be forever thankful to the person who had the decency to be a donor and gave them/their child a second chance at life.

The people who donate organs are fantastic individuals. It's the politican's who tell us to and may not even do it themselves that I'm concerned with.

El_Duderino 09

Hal3000 wrote: »

The people who donate organs are fantastic individuals. It's the politican's who tell us to and may not even do it themselves that I'm concerned with.

Nobody’s telling you what to do. You’ll be free to opt out.

And what if the minister for health is an organ donor? Then what? You’re making a big issue about that point but would it make any difference to your attitude if he is a donor?

I respect people’s right to opt out so I don’t care if he opts out.

Hal3000

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Nobody’s telling you what to do. You’ll be free to opt out.

And what if the minister for health is an organ donor? Then what? You’re making a big issue about that point but would it make any difference to your attitude if he is a donor?

I respect people’s right to opt out so I don’t care if he opts out.

Sorry I prefer my politican's to lead by example. Sorry about that.

El_Duderino 09

Hal3000 wrote: »

Sorry I prefer my politican's to lead by example. Sorry about that.

Apology accepted.

So what if he is an organ donor? How will that change your attitude?

pgj2015

i am an organ donor. if this opt out idea comes in, i will be opting out. no one wants the government having control of their organs.

Timberrrrrrrr

Hal3000 wrote: »

Sorry I prefer my politican's to lead by example. Sorry about that.

So he should come on national tv and staye his preference? Thats confidential information that I'm sure you wouldnt state live on tv

Hal3000

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Apology accepted.

So what if he is an organ donor? How will that change your attitude?

I would be more inclined to yes. If I see a minister bring in a policy and then not bother to do it himself, I might have reservations as to why he would be so keen for eveyone else to donate, but he himself abstains from the practice ? Again I apologise that I don't always follow what our loving and caring leaders tells us what is the best thing to do.

Hal3000

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So he should come on national tv and staye his preference? Thats confidential information that I'm sure you wouldnt state live on tv

We all knew their thoughts on abortion ref. Should that not have also been private ?

TheChizler

pgj2015 wrote: »

i am an organ donor. if this opt out idea comes in, i will be opting out. no one wants the government having control of their organs.

This was repeated ad nauseum earlier in the thread, but you know the family will have the final say, same as they do now? The changes basically mean they'll be asking the family for permission by default if they don't know your wishes, instead of the current situation where they only ask if they know your preferences.

No-one's organs will be taken without consultation.

By the way, currently your family can elect to donate your organs even if your expressly state you don't want that to happen.

Candamir

Hal3000 wrote: »

The people who donate organs are fantastic individuals. It's the politican's who tell us to and may not even do it themselves that I'm concerned with.

pgj2015 wrote: »

i am an organ donor. if this opt out idea comes in, i will be opting out. no one wants the government having control of their organs.

Some really strange bending of logic on this thread!

“The government shouldn’t control my organs, so I’m going to use the opt out system it provides to make sure they don’t” (even though I support organ donation.)

“I’m going to opt out because some government official might be opting out”

How about deciding if you’re in favour of organ donation and deciding for yourself if you’ll be a donor, based on your own feelings and not what ‘the government’ might be up to.

Maybe think about the lives that will be saved and changed dramatically by organ donation.

stefanovich

Your organs are now only on loan from the government.

Timberrrrrrrr

stefanovich wrote: »

Your organs are now only on loan from the government.

Unless you get off your arse, click 3 times on the site and opt out :rolleyes:

You know the "government" dont get to keep your organs right? What does the "government" gain from this?

Stark

I'd be very very surprised if Simon Harris wasn't an organ donor. An awfully flimsy excuse for petty selfish behavior. Fine, by all means opt out of donating but like others said, make sure you also "lead by example" and opt out of receiving.

stefanovich

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Unless you get off your arse, click 3 times on the site and opt out :rolleyes:

You know the "government" dont get to keep your organs right? What does the "government" gain from this?

They don't have to buy in organs for their Sunday dinner.

Hal3000

Stark wrote: »

I'd be very very surprised if Simon Harris wasn't an organ donor. An awfully flimsy excuse for petty selfish behavior. Fine, by all means opt out of donating but like others said, make sure you also "lead by example" and opt out of receiving.

Suggesting our leaders lead by example is frowned upon in this thread. So is questioning any of their motives. Im still waiting for a tinfoil hat comment.

Candamir

Hal3000 wrote: »

Suggesting our leaders lead by example is frowned upon in this thread. So is questioning any of their motives. Im still waiting for a tinfoil hat comment.

I’ve no idea if Simon Harris is an organ donor.

But - people have all kinds of reasons not to be. They may have objections on religious grounds. They may not be able to donate because of a medical condition. There may be a very good reason why someone is not a donor.
You not being a donor, based on someone else’s circumstances, is not a very good reason!

scamalert

its a bit sensitive topic to some i know when getting license i crossed off being organ donor, then again once your dead who gives a fck really, if it saves someone else why not.

Bob Harris

The government now wants organ donation to be obligatory while on the other hand it won't be long before they are introducing euthanasia.

ohnonotgmail

Bob Harris wrote: »

The government now wants organ donation to be obligatory while on the other hand it won't be long before they are introducing euthanasia.

I dont suppose you actually have any basis for saying that?

Ipso

Hilarious, the people moaning would be the first to complain if the government slashed the HSE budget.

Bob Harris

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I dont suppose you actually have any basis for saying that?

I have the basis of my opinion.

weldoninhio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But you still get the choice about what happens after you're dead. That's right and proper.

This is a complete storm in a teacup. Anyone who cares enough to Google "organ donation opt out" and tick the box, will be opted out. Those who don't care enough to do that, obviously don't care one way or the other. So I'm confident that anyone who wants to opt out will do so.

Anyone who cares enough to carry an "organ donation opt in" card will be opted in. Those who don't care enough to do that, obviously don't care one way or the other.

Fixed that for you.

weldoninhio

Ipso wrote: »

Maybe opt out of receiving an organ while you’re at it.

Doesn't work like that.

Ipso

weldoninhio wrote: »

Doesn't work like that.

Pity. It could be called an eye for an eye.

ohnonotgmail

Bob Harris wrote: »

I have the basis of my opinion.

which is?

ohnonotgmail

weldoninhio wrote: »

Anyone who cares enough to carry an "organ donation opt in" card will be opted in. Those who don't care enough to do that, obviously don't care one way or the other.

Fixed that for you.

if they dont care one way or another then why would they care if their organs were donated by default?

weldoninhio

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Unless you get off your arse, click 3 times on the site and opt out :rolleyes:

You know the "government" dont get to keep your organs right? What does the "government" gain from this?

You've seen the site?? Could you give us a link?? Or are you talking shite?? :rolleyes:

weldoninhio

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if they dont care one way or another then why would they care if their organs were donated by default?

If they felt strongly enough about donating they would carry a card. It's available online, in any pharmacy, library, doctors surgery and plenty of other places. You don't even have to bother looking up a website. They are available everywhere.

Bob Harris

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

which is?

That euthanisia will in time become standard practice.
There will be a huge ruccus of course but there will be a referendum and it will
be available in certain circumstances within a generation.

ohnonotgmail

Bob Harris wrote: »

That euthanisia will in time become standard practice.
There will be a huge ruccus of course but there will be a referendum and it will
be available in certain circumstances within a generation.

But why do you think euthanasia will become standard practice?

ohnonotgmail

weldoninhio wrote: »

If they felt strongly enough about donating they would carry a card. It's available online, in any pharmacy, library, doctors surgery and plenty of other places. You don't even have to bother looking up a website. They are available everywhere.

well like you said some people dont care one way or another.

Timberrrrrrrr

weldoninhio wrote: »

You've seen the site?? Could you give us a link?? Or are you talking shite?? :rolleyes:

I'm going by the Welsh one whichis 3 clicks, maybe the Irish one will be 4 or 5 clicks and they may be too strenuous for some of you?

For the ones against organ donation (not that many if any will admit this) would you still be against this option if it was your child/mother/father/sibling who required an organ?

Candamir

weldoninhio wrote: »

Anyone who cares enough to carry an "organ donation opt in" card will be opted in. Those who don't care enough to do that, obviously don't care one way or the other.

Fixed that for you.

It’s not that simple. Lots of suitable donors are lost every year, even though they may have wanted to donate.
It’s a very difficult time for families, and often the hospital staff don’t want yo compound their grief (as they see it) by having to bring up the subject of organ donation. In the bigger transplant centres its less of a problem as they will have transplant coordinators on site who are used to dealing with the situation.
The idea of opt out is to make asking the question a normal part of dying and removing the stigma that’s there.
People who have strong feelings against organ donation can opt out, and next of kin can still refuse. There’s nothing compulsory about it. But in time we may have a society that sees organ donation as the norm, and the hundreds of patients waiting to die on donor lists can have a reasonable expectation of a chance at living.

Ipso

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'm going by the Welsh one whichis 3 clicks, maybe the Irish one will be 4 or 5 clicks and they may be too strenuous for some of you?

For the ones against organ donation (not that many if any will admit this) would you still be against this option if it was your child/mother/father/sibling who required an organ?

The f*** they would, they’d expect the government tondo something. The same government that can’t be trusted.

Timberrrrrrrr

Bob Harris wrote: »

That euthanisia will in time become standard practice.
There will be a huge ruccus of course but there will be a referendum and it will
be available in certain circumstances within a generation.

What's you issue with this?

Bob Harris

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

But why do you think euthanasia will become standard practice?

Public demand - people want the right to die when through illness etc they no longer have the will to live. Anyone I know of my generation express this wish.

The government initally will pretend to be appalled but it is a great way to save money on health and pensions.

Personally if I was in a position where the thought of death was more appealing than the reality of living due to pain/immobility/distress etc I would like to be able to choose my own destiny.

I would also give advance authorisation that were I in an advanced stage of dementia etc where I couldn't decide or think rationally for myself to be euthanised.

So on the one hand we have the government obliging people to donate organs to prolong life while on the other in time they will allow people to end their life prematurely in a dignified way. I don't think they are mutually exclusive concepts at all by the way, simply the desire to improve the quality of life when that is possible and the desire to end your life when there is no quality of life no any chance of ever improving it. That goes for the person and their families.