Is Society getting too difficult for the young?

Airyfairy12

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe you're right, I got my 1st mortgage in 2001, while I was a single man and had an active social life. I know not many could afford to do that now.

But now married with kids and no social life. Maybe having a family has made me more sensible with money, but I just can't grasp the concept of spending €1200 on a phone, or signing up at €60 per month for 2 years to a contract for one. I'm happy with my 2nd hand Xperia that I've had for 4yrs or more.

I just think that life could be made more simple for some if they tried a bit.

Who is spending 1200 on a phone? Cant say I know anyone with a phone that costs that much?

My phone is also 4 years old and I buy credit for it once a month. Still cant afford car insurance or a house, can barely afford rent as it is. I walk everywhere.
Its very undermining and frustrating for highly educated young people trying to get their foot in the door to be told theyre not trying hard enough.

NIMAN

I didn't say young people aren't trying hard enough.

I was more hinting at the fact that a lot of people spend money freely then complain about having none.

I work with a few of them.

Graces7

Grayson wrote: »

I do agree a bit though. Renting should be an option but unfortunately there's no security.

Sadly so; I always thought I would never rent from the council but at least now I have security. In private rentals these days ?

Graces7

BattleCorp wrote: »

People now who are renting and are approaching pension age are the people I feel sorry for.

Their income will drop but their rent won't. Cue lots of homeless pensioners.

No ,as they will qualify for HAP etc. Believe me!

NIMAN

We used to have a friend visit from Sweden, and he was renting the same place for 30+ years.

Not every country has the need to own your own house, maybe we need to look into the option of long term, guaranteed rentals with the laws to protect the renter and landlord.

I think people are getting a little too carried away with the smaller expenses in life.
Its the big things that have people crippled.

On this day in 2012, myself and my wife were renting a 2 bed apartment for 900.
In 2019, we are renting a 2 bed in the same area for 1400.
Its that extra 500 hundred euro that has made life difficult.

We earn more money now due to advancing a bit in our careers but most of that money goes towards the rent.

But the point of this thread was to show how a young couple, say early 20's and in entry level jobs, will just stand no chance.

Lets say a young man earning 22K and a young woman earning 24K rented my current apartment.
They earn 46K before tax. Roughly around 41000 after tax.
Annual rent is 16800.
Half of their salary will be spent on rent and bills.
The other half will have to finance their shopping, travel and all other expenses.

Even a chest infection, visit to the doctor and a course of antibiotics would put huge strain on them in a month.

Bigmac1euro

I’m currently paying rent and saving for a mortgage. The smallest thing could throw me off the path I’m on, it’s an extremely delicate situation and I get my phone for free in work. I have about 50 quid a week walking around money if I’m lucky and there was overtime the previous month otherwise I’ve virtually nothing after all bills including food is paid for.

It’s been a tough few months, only another year and a half to go.

This month in particular I’ll have no money after bills, rent, mortgage savings, car insurance. I tried to prepare for January back in November but it has been difficult. I’ve had to plan 2 months in advance always.
I had prepared for Christmas back in August.

I have money in the credit union which will help me get through this month.

Myself and my other half are on decent enough wages combined.
It’s not easy and if the market for housing changes I’ll be priced out of the market meaning im goosed and I’ll be emigrating.

Ps. I shouldn’t have to settle for a 2 bed apartment miles away after putting in probably twice the effort my father put in and bare in mind he did this on his salary only.
I’ve spoke to him about this and he agrees fully.

Wanderer78

NIMAN wrote:

Thats down to simple greed probably. Americans are eating themselves into early graves.

Hardly due to poverty and the inequalities that have been created by barbaric economic systems, leaving millions of Americans with virtually no health care cover, many working more than one job, just to survive? These issues are far more complex than just dietary issues, and the flooding of our economies with foods that are deeply harmful for human consumption

seamus

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Where do you live if people are taking 2 or 3 vacations a year? I have had the same car for 4 years now [and my previous for over 10] Must be nice being so well off you can dismiss posts on how expensive the Country is getting.

With the exception of rent, the country has not been getting very expensive at all.

Taken as a whole (including rent), the cost of living in Ireland has increased just 2.5% since 2011.

Average weekly earnings have risen 7.8% since 2011.

It's an absolute constant that the older you get the more you will remark about how expensive things are getting while forgetting that income is also rising.

On balance, the country is getting less expensive.

PuppyMcPupFace

Tell me how wrote: »

I was talking to my 74 year old father on New Years eve about his first jobs. He started working at 14 as a delivery truck helper and general dogsbody in a local hardware shop. He was paid twice a year.
Once in the summer and again before Christmas. Imagine working 6 months in hand in today's society. :eek:

His brother was working elsewhere in a similar fashion, one year, before Christmas, when he was expected to be paid, he was told times were lean, and they'd give it to him after Christmas. He had been hoping to use the money to contribute to the Christmas for the family in which there were 10 children. He worked until February on the promise of next week, next week before he left without another penny. That was 8 months work. With no wages.

The youth today have it easy (for the most part) by comparison. As did my generation.
They have the access to education, travel, job opportunities which were not there before.

But, they too have their cross to bear. I shudder to think how difficult it must be for children who are bullied in today's world as it so hard to avoid it with social media and the anonymity the internet brings.

I would echo previous posters concerns about we are doing to the natural resources of this planet. We're talking about life on Mars, look at the state of it. We couldn't even mind the perfect planet which we were fortunate enough to land on.

Yeah my dad's first job was like that - 1955 in a butcher's shop. He'd work mad hours and at the end of the week never know if he'd get paid.

Made him value hard work and a wage though and he passed that to us.

Agreed regarding bullying - at least when I walked out the gates it was over, these kids get it 24/7.

Wanderer78

seamus wrote:

On balance, the country is getting less expensive.

Consumables and services are probably getting cheaper, but our most critical of needs, things such as the price of housing etc, is rising quickly, this can and is, conveniently omitted from such statements. I suspect serious trouble is ahead, particularly for younger generations regarding these most critical of needs.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Who is spending 1200 on a phone? Cant say I know anyone with a phone that costs that much?

My phone is also 4 years old and I buy credit for it once a month. Still cant afford car insurance or a house, can barely afford rent as it is. I walk everywhere.
Its very undermining and frustrating for highly educated young people trying to get their foot in the door to be told theyre not trying hard enough.

The latest iPhone and Galaxy models are at those levels people just don't realise the true cost of them as they get the phone on a fixed contract of 50 or 60 euro a month with the phone thrown in for 'free' or for a few hundred euro up front.


So yeah, plenty of people paying that (actually more than that really) for a phone.

PuppyMcPupFace

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

The latest iPhone and Galaxy models are at those levels people just don't realise the true cost of them as they get the phone on a fixed contract of 50 or 60 euro a month with the phone thrown in for 'free' or for a few hundred euro up front.


So yeah, plenty of people paying that (actually more than that really) for a phone.

I'm with 3 and the were offering a second hand iPhone 9 for 650 on PAYG. Nuts !!!!

seamus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Consumables and services are probably getting cheaper, but our most critical of needs, things such as the price of housing etc, is rising quickly, this can and is, conveniently omitted from such statements. I suspect serious trouble is ahead, particularly for younger generations regarding these most critical of needs.

www.cso.ie

The figures are there, nothing is omitted.

Consumables and services are still things that you buy.

The problem is that when your rent rises by fifty quid, that's a huge tangible single cost.

When the cost of your milk drops by 5c, that's less tangible. So even though when you take all the 5c drops off various products, your costs have dropped by €60, you still only see the €50 increase in rent, rather than realising that you're €10 up.

These are also broad figures and cannot be applied to individual circumstances. It's easy for one person to look at it and say "bullsh1t, I have €500 less than I did last year.".

And that may be true, but their situation is not indicative of the whole. Taken as a whole, it is, on average, less expensive to live in Ireland than previous years.

Wanderer78

seamus wrote:

And that may be true, but their situation is not indicative of the whole. Taken as a whole, it is, on average, less expensive to live in Ireland than previous years.

The term 'accommodation ' is probably more appropriate to be used in regards housing, it's clearly obvious now that accommodation needs are not being fulfilled for many, particularly younger generations, couple this with things such as relatively low wage inflation, the increasing precarious nature of employment, amongst other things, compared to older generations, and you ve one major problem. We re not the only country currently experiencing these issues, and I'm not convinced anyone really knows what to do about it either. I suspect there's big trouble ahead for those badly affected by these issues.

Buford T. Justice XIX

PuppyMcPupFace wrote: »

I'm with 3 and the were offering a second hand iPhone 9 for 650 on PAYG. Nuts !!!!

I bought a new S8 from Amazon 18 months ago for less than that.

ChrissieH

I'm glad that so many other people have posted here since I was last online yesterday because I was pretty surprised at some of the earlier responses and attitudes that one should be able to afford to save up and buy a house once the desired location wasn't somewhere posh and one wasn't wasting money on smart phones!
I am Degree-educated and in my 40s, married without children and I take home less than €500 per week. I haven't had a raise at all in my entire time working in my current job due to it being a struggling SME, like most employers in my area.
My husband, who dropped out of school in the 90s to work, has been in and out of full-time employment for the past 3 years thanks to the recession putting his longterm workplace out of business, leaving him highly skilled in a niche area which is now pretty defunct, so he's probably in the same position as many young people today; struggling to get a reliable basic job in the area where we live, with his only employment in the past 3 years being things like zero-hour contracts on almost minimum wage.

Buying a house anywhere at all is not an option for us, we have absolutely no savings, therefore no deposit, so for people to suggest that if we were to lower our expectations about where we live, is outrageous and deluded and arrogant. Yes, many of my peers are in a far better financial position than I am because they left college and began their careers, like you're "supposed to" but I decided to return to third level education as a mature student, having completed half of an unsuitable course when I initially left school in the 90s, and as luck would have it, the recession arrived just as I graduated with distinction in a business Degree, so suddenly all these jobs I'd had in mind didn't exist anymore and I took the one I'm in now - and was grateful for it - but I'm not in a position to move to Cork or Dublin to get a higher-paid job due to family commitments. I'm not going to commute for hours everyday and spend the few extra quid I'd earn on petrol, and spend half my day in the car.
And these are the only options that are open to a lot of us in Ireland, so for the people who think that those of us with no money must be wasting it on €1200 phones, or 2 holidays per year, and that we could easily save up if we really wanted to, you're utterly wrong. We haven't been on a foreign holiday in 4 years. Our rent, thankfully is much lower than if we attempted to live in a city, so this is us "cutting our cloth" or whatever the expression was about living within your means.
At least I got to go to college and experience all the great things about it before the current unaffordable situation began - I got to leave home and go away to a new city and grow up and do all the great things that young people are supposed to experience when they leave school thanks to my parents being in a position to afford my rent, because it was affordable!! I could work on Saturdays and earn enough to get me my night out in college, because that too was affordable. It's completely different now and yeah, nobody's denying that we have better healthcare and more open-minded education etc today, that's all true but I interpret the original question to mean that 'society' is also viewed in terms of how we treat each other, how we value things, what our morals and ethics are..
Don't we all know the pressure that social media has put on young people today .. don't we know that financial pressure has absolutely ruined so many relationships, addictions are rife, so many people are under so much stress - yeah, all of us agree that the older generations also had serious financial hardship but there wasn't the added pressure of seeing other people on social media flaunting their lovely life, making us feel even more inadequate!
And the original question was specifically about young people, who are still growing - there's no point in us (assuming we're all adults on here) looking at it through OUR eyes, we're supposedly mature and more aware of how things really are. Young people are trying to grow in this pressured environment, we are not.

Berserker

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm in my late 40's and apart from the most recent recession, property has never really dropped in price.

And if property is very cheap due to a recession, then finance will be hard to come by.

I can't ever see a time where housing will be easily affordable.

Life is harder for young people on that front. I've a few software developers here, single lads in their 30s, who earn €50-60K a year and they rent in Dublin. They'll never be able to afford a home in Dublin, unless they get married. You'd be well set earning that much (or it's equivalent) a few decades back as a single person.

super_furry wrote: »

Internships are such a horrible scam and should be outlawed - pay people money for their work. The only people who can afford to work for free are those from a rich background, with parents that will cover their costs.

It's why there are so few working class voices in the media.

They are a complete scam. Companies pretending to train people by getting them to do work for nothing. I've two interns in here at the moment. Didn't realise they were interns until someone told me. They are working away as part of teams just like everyone else. Ireland has become very American in it's attitude to work. Screw everyone you can, for as long as you can and the same companies complain when staff up and leave. Also, this nonsense of being available 24/7 winds me up. It's a job, not your life!

BattleCorp

ChrissieH wrote: »

I am Degree-educated and in my 40s, married without children and I take home less than €500 per week. I haven't had a raise at all in my entire time working in my current job due to it being a struggling SME, like most employers in my area.

Obviously I don't know you but I have to ask, why haven't you moved for a better job if you are taking home less than €500 per week with a business degree?

Most people better themselves when they change jobs. I've changed jobs about 8 times in my life and only once was it for less money. All the other changes were to jobs that paid more money. I even changed careers with the aim of getting a better paid job.

Graces7

Maybe need to adjust the thread title; that the young are failing to meet the challenges of life these days? Rather than blame "society"

Timmaay

PuppyMcPupFace wrote: »

I think the problem is that there's no life lessons as a kid. No disappointment to grow from.

I see kids of friends who at 18 or 19 get a bad grade in College or don't get a job they wanted or have a relationship end - it's their first knock back and they can be suicidal.

The best thing parents can do for their kids growing up is let the fail at the small stuff, it'll be beneficial in the long run.

My mother always told me that I could try anything I wanted but unless I was very lucky or prepared to work day and night, I'd likely not make it to the top of whatever I tried. I'm now grounded and sensible and can handle life.

As a running coach with loads of teenagers in the club, the 1st two questions I always sarcastically ask when the topic of exams (especially the junior cert) comes up is how many did you fail, or how many do you think you'll fail! A question that always throws them, they put zero thoughts into a plan B, or what to do when they get minor setbacks etc. My next sarcastic question usually follows something along the lines of "in 10yrs time you're gonna be in a job interview and they are defo gonna ask you your junior cert mock results", the effort there is to plant the idea of how preposterous it is in the grand scale worrying about it too much. (these in general are farily high achieving kids with pushy parents btw)

ChrissieH

BattleCorp wrote: »

Obviously I don't know you but I have to ask, why haven't you moved for a better job if you are taking home less than €500 per week with a business degree?

It sounds obvious, I know, but realistically, where I live in the midlands, there aren't a whole pile of better-paid employment opportunities that would suit me (by that, I mean I really don't want to work in retail or hospitality or something else that's based on dealing with the public, it's not something I'm suited to) and I have been training part-time to change my skillset so I've been spending money (and time) on further education with a view to hopefully moving on to something with better pay, but in all honesty, I have friends earning pretty much the same as me and so this is actually the reality for lots of us.
Plus, I didn't expect that I'd be in this position; I've been working here for 10 years now, I didn't think that I'd be on the same wage but the company just isn't bringing in enough to increase the salaries.
I know there is better earning potential out there, I know it's not impossible but for me, I had to factor in that I live and work in the same town, therefore I have been able to limit my travel and lunch expenses at least, so I'm saving money rather than earning more of it if you know what I mean? It's a kind of a trade-off.
I have successfully applied for civil service jobs in the past and found that the starting salaries are ridiculously low, plus I'd have to drive at least half an hour to get to them every day. Private sector jobs in my nearest big town are not massively appealing to me either, many factory and retail jobs. (I currently work in accounts so it's just never seemed prudent to switch to something else for the same wage, in the hopes that I would get wage increases over time)

It's depressing but unfortunately I didn't choose a Degree with an automatic career choice, a business Degree was a great idea in 2003 but by the time I finished it, it wasn't all that valuable to me as I am, in my geographical location and at my age (family & financial commitments = no scope to travel / emigrate for career opportunities)
I feel that this is the reality of life for lots of people in rural Ireland at the moment, I know there are plenty earning lots more, but luckily I don't have a mortgage and have relatively cheap rent, so it's just a different set of income/outgoings but with pretty much the same end result.

Wanderer78

Graces7 wrote: »

Maybe need to adjust the thread title; that the young are failing to meet the challenges of life these days? Rather than blame "society"

are these 'challenges' too great for them to achieve, what is causing them to struggle to meet these 'challenges'? we are all a part of society, it is in everyone's interest these issues are resolved.

screamer

On the contrary I think those things you point out OP are milestones that we have all had to strive to achieve. I think some parents really over compensate and so young people don’t understand what it really means to earn something and therefore value it. They also don’t learn that sometimes you fail and that is also part of life, and that after a failure you have to take the lesson and try again.... but over compensating means that they don’t learn that lesson, and they are very unprepared for the world. Life is more than goals and milestones and what you have, it’s the journey and the experience too.

Blaizes

Graces7 wrote: »

Maybe need to adjust the thread title; that the young are failing to meet the challenges of life these days? Rather than blame "society"

Failing to meet the challenges? A test now is it

Buford T. Justice XIX

ChrissieH wrote: »

I'm glad that so many other people have posted here since I was last online yesterday because I was pretty surprised at some of the earlier responses and attitudes that one should be able to afford to save up and buy a house once the desired location wasn't somewhere posh and one wasn't wasting money on smart phones!
I am Degree-educated and in my 40s, married without children and I take home less than €500 per week. I haven't had a raise at all in my entire time working in my current job due to it being a struggling SME, like most employers in my area.
My husband, who dropped out of school in the 90s to work, has been in and out of full-time employment for the past 3 years thanks to the recession putting his longterm workplace out of business, leaving him highly skilled in a niche area which is now pretty defunct, so he's probably in the same position as many young people today; struggling to get a reliable basic job in the area where we live, with his only employment in the past 3 years being things like zero-hour contracts on almost minimum wage.

Buying a house anywhere at all is not an option for us, we have absolutely no savings, therefore no deposit, so for people to suggest that if we were to lower our expectations about where we live, is outrageous and deluded and arrogant. Yes, many of my peers are in a far better financial position than I am because they left college and began their careers, like you're "supposed to" but I decided to return to third level education as a mature student, having completed half of an unsuitable course when I initially left school in the 90s, and as luck would have it, the recession arrived just as I graduated with distinction in a business Degree, so suddenly all these jobs I'd had in mind didn't exist anymore and I took the one I'm in now - and was grateful for it - but I'm not in a position to move to Cork or Dublin to get a higher-paid job due to family commitments. I'm not going to commute for hours everyday and spend the few extra quid I'd earn on petrol, and spend half my day in the car.
And these are the only options that are open to a lot of us in Ireland, so for the people who think that those of us with no money must be wasting it on €1200 phones, or 2 holidays per year, and that we could easily save up if we really wanted to, you're utterly wrong. We haven't been on a foreign holiday in 4 years. Our rent, thankfully is much lower than if we attempted to live in a city, so this is us "cutting our cloth" or whatever the expression was about living within your means.
At least I got to go to college and experience all the great things about it before the current unaffordable situation began - I got to leave home and go away to a new city and grow up and do all the great things that young people are supposed to experience when they leave school thanks to my parents being in a position to afford my rent, because it was affordable!! I could work on Saturdays and earn enough to get me my night out in college, because that too was affordable. It's completely different now and yeah, nobody's denying that we have better healthcare and more open-minded education etc today, that's all true but I interpret the original question to mean that 'society' is also viewed in terms of how we treat each other, how we value things, what our morals and ethics are..
Don't we all know the pressure that social media has put on young people today .. don't we know that financial pressure has absolutely ruined so many relationships, addictions are rife, so many people are under so much stress - yeah, all of us agree that the older generations also had serious financial hardship but there wasn't the added pressure of seeing other people on social media flaunting their lovely life, making us feel even more inadequate!
And the original question was specifically about young people, who are still growing - there's no point in us (assuming we're all adults on here) looking at it through OUR eyes, we're supposedly mature and more aware of how things really are. Young people are trying to grow in this pressured environment, we are not.

No offence meant here but why do people measure their success in life against photoshopped highlights of others lives? I've seen friends rave about their holidays/new cars/ new phone etc etc on social media while knowing they are struggling to pay their mortgage and put food on the table.


I'm a bit dumbfounded that anybody would take such superficial trappings of success as a measure of where their life should be

screamer

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

No offence meant here but why do people measure their success in life against photoshopped highlights of others lives? I've seen friends rave about their holidays/new cars/ new phone etc etc on social media while knowing they are struggling to pay their mortgage and put food on the table.


I'm a bit dumbfounded that anybody would take such superficial trappings of success as a measure of where their life should be

Because that’s the “society” the young buy into engineered, fake, materialistic and envious. Disgusting really. They’ll need to grow up a bit to realise life’s a journey not a destination.

ednwireland

Blaizes wrote: »

Failing to meet the challenges? A test now is it

Sure is and everyone fails in the end !

denismc

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Pshaw, he was lucky to have a puddle, all we had was a bit of cardboard. Every day we'd wake up two hours before going to bed, march down to pit work twenty hours and then come home and our father would kill us.


But you tell that to the young people today and they don't believe it!

Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah

tayto lover

People should live for today, there might be no tomorrow.
As a friend used to say years ago "all you need is enough to do you and a pound".

ChrissieH

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

No offence meant here but why do people measure their success in life against photoshopped highlights of others lives? I've seen friends rave about their holidays/new cars/ new phone etc etc on social media while knowing they are struggling to pay their mortgage and put food on the table.


I'm a bit dumbfounded that anybody would take such superficial trappings of success as a measure of where their life should be

But this is exactly the point! For those of us who are a bit older and more mature - and maybe it's a case of being spiritually mature rather than just age-mature - we totally understand that this is no way to measure success or happiness, or that the very people posting about their perfect lives are full of crap, but our materialistic society DOES imply that it is the ultimate measure of success and happiness to have financial wealth, and a lot of young people who don't have the mental maturity that adults have ARE duped by the insta-perfect lives, and so they ARE feeling inadequate and pressurised and anxious.
We can't expect young people to be able to see through the marketing ploys or the fakeness of social media, or whatever you want to call it.. that's asking the impossible of young, under-developed minds.
They have to live and experience life before they can come to these realisations! And in the meantime, our society does still give us the message that owning a nice house, owning a nice car, getting a good career and getting married are still the goals to achieve. On top of the individualised marketing of what brand of car constitutes "nice", what kind of house constitutes "nice", etc etc. Come on like, we are all aware of marketing, the bombardment of us all of the images of perfection .. yes, as adults, we are lucky that we are wise enough to know that it's a fake sales pitch. But to younger people who are only starting out and are conditioned to take in the messages they receive from society via learning in school / at hobbies / church / whatever.. it's different, they're not mentally equipped to know that it's all a fecking farce!
No matter what any of us say, we absolutely did not EVER have the level of advertising, marketing etc that young people are presented with now. Money is king now. Absolutely no doubt about it.

Wanderer78

ChrissieH wrote: »

Money is king now. Absolutely no doubt about it.

to be more precise, credit and debt is king

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Maybe need to adjust the thread title; that the young are failing to meet the challenges of life these days? Rather than blame "society"

Are those changes that they’re struggling with not caused by society?

Graces7

Blaizes wrote: »

Failing to meet the challenges? A test now is it

Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Are those changes that they’re struggling with not caused by society?

Define "society"?

And no in many senses. There is no need to have all the things that others have which is what many here are saying. If you let yourself be pressurised? Are they struggling? We made choices within our range. Still do

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

Myself and my wife have been talking about starting a family soon and it really got me thinking about society in general and how hard it is for young people currently, and how much harder it might get.

1) Getting a job - Can't get a job without experience, can't get experience without a job. This really sucks for young people and there is no easy way around it. Take an internship and deal with low wages until
you have a few years behind you.

Eh when I was in school in 80s, if you didn't go to college you usually got the boat to Britain.
Some had option of states as they had been born there and their parents were first generation of emigrants to ever really return in the70s.
And that was really one of the first generations to really start going to third level.
There were fook all jobs in Ireland, experience or not.

Deleted User wrote: »

2) Getting a driving licence - You need to do a theory test, at least 12 lessons and pass a driving test. Sounds easy enough but the laws around unaccompanied learners mean you will probably need to pay for way more lessons to get practice in. Then you have the insurance. Its not too uncommon to be quoted 3 or 4K for third party insurance in your first year. You won't get insured any kind of reasonable price for an older starter car.

Back in the bad old 80s no one in secondary school had a car and the only ones in college with a car were the ones whose parents had garages or they were rich.
Notice how many students now have cars ?
Insurance was always high and the work around was being a named driver on the parents car.

Deleted User wrote: »

3) Property - Lets face it, most young people don't want to live at home well into their adult lives. The only option they really have is to rent. But eventually they'll want to buy their own place and realize how tough it is to buy while paying a large percentage of your salary towards rent. More and more are left moving back home with their parents or getting a lend from parents if possible. Single people have no hope unless they have a very very good job.

Yes this is different, and in no small part due to fact our population has grown significantly and we now have inward immigration.
See above for fact back before 90s we had loads of fecking emigration.
A plus to that was there were less people chasing accommodation.

Deleted User wrote: »

4) Having a wedding - Most young couples want to have a wedding, its a traditional thing to do. Unfortunately a very expensive thing to do also. Average wedding is probably somewhere between 10 and 20K these days.

Ah FFS as someone else said cut your cloth.

You don't have to invite every fooker in five parishes, every extended relation, have the barbecue the next day, have gifts at the tables, etc, etc.

Deleted User wrote: »

5) Savings / Investment / Pensions - Most young people have too many things to pay for now and can't even get any of these going until much later in life.

What about when the mortgage interest rates were in the teens, taxes were over 60%, inflation was running at nearly 20% and jobs were harder to come by ?

Deleted User wrote: »

In previous generations for example, it seems like 2 minimum wage workers could be married, have a house, have some kids and a family car all by the age of 25. Thats closer to 35 now.

Yes that has changed.
But would you like to go back to days when women stayed at home and were often forbidden to hold some jobs once married ?

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyways, I don't really want this thread to turn into a who had it harder debate... but more what do you think it will like for the next generation?

Do they stand a chance without major changes in society? What do you think society will look like for a young person 10 or 20 years from now?

The big things coming down the tracks are:
- increased globalisation meaning more low end jobs being shoved off to cheap developing countries meaning less employment chances for some.
- increased automation meaning more low end jobs simply disappearing meaning less employment chances for some.
- the pension timebombs coming home to roost.
- increased effects of climate change meaning massive diversion of public resources.
- increased societal problems due to increased intake into the Western world of people from poverty stricken and backward shyteholes, all because some people, especially those of the younger generations, want to feel superior and think they are helping solve the issues in the aforementioned countries.

The most basic human needs are food, water and a roof over your head. There is currently a major issue with provision of a basic life necessity, purely driven by greed. I'm sick of hearing that if we millenials would just stop buying phones and eating avocado toast we'd have a house in no time. A lot of the older generation don't seem to have any understanding of the magnitude of the problem for young people today.

FWIW, I don't like avocado, I rarely buy take away coffee, I have a bog standard phone which is two years old, I drive an eight year old Fiat, I'm careful with my money but I simply don't earn enough to get a mortgage for a place remotely near my work. That's despite having a masters and experience. This is life for many people today and I'm very anxious about the future.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Maybe need to adjust the thread title; that the young are failing to meet the challenges of life these days? Rather than blame "society"

Young people may be failing but its not through any fault of their own.
Its because the pass rate has increased from 40% to 80%.

Unless something is done soon, there will be a serious fallout in the future.
People that worked all their lives may well end up retiring and not have money to pay their rent any longer.

What a horrible final few years for a hard working person that will be.

Thats why people are so desperate to buy.

Wanderer78

Flying Fox wrote: »

The most basic human needs are food, water and a roof over your head. There is currently a major issue with provision of a basic life necessity, purely driven by greed. I'm sick of hearing that if we millenials would just stop buying phones and eating avocado toast we'd have a house in no time. A lot of the older generation don't seem to have any understanding of the magnitude of the problem for young people today.

FWIW, I don't like avocado, I rarely buy take away coffee, I have a bog standard phone which is two years old, I drive an eight year old Fiat, I'm careful with my money but I simply don't earn enough to get a mortgage for a place remotely near my work. That's despite having a masters and experience. This is life for many people today and I'm very anxious about the future.

to be fair, this is a hell of a lot more complicated than pure greed, but it is an element of it

jmayo

Flying Fox wrote: »

The most basic human needs are food, water and a roof over your head. There is currently a major issue with provision of a basic life necessity, purely driven by greed. I'm sick of hearing that if we millenials would just stop buying phones and eating avocado toast we'd have a house in no time. A lot of the older generation don't seem to have any understanding of the magnitude of the problem for young people today.

FWIW, I don't like avocado, I rarely buy take away coffee, I have a bog standard phone which is two years old, I drive an eight year old Fiat, I'm careful with my money but I simply don't earn enough to get a mortgage for a place remotely near my work. That's despite having a masters and experience. This is life for many people today and I'm very anxious about the future.

There are a few things that will have to change in Ireland regarding housing.
One is that some people will have to realise they will never be able to afford to buy a place and that means the government really need to finally overhaul the rental rules and landlords will have to put in place long term stable leases ala most of the world.
An end to the one year lease as being the norm.

Another thing is planners and people will have to realise that in particular Dublin will have to start growing upwards so that people can live near the city centre or particular areas of employment.
That means high rise, properly planned services especially for families and people realising that owning a garden and a front door means living in commuter towns way outside the city.

And to accommodate those commuter towns transport infrastructure has to improve massively and not just the odd rail link or tram link.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Flying Fox wrote: »

The most basic human needs are food, water and a roof over your head. There is currently a major issue with provision of a basic life necessity, purely driven by greed. I'm sick of hearing that if we millenials would just stop buying phones and eating avocado toast we'd have a house in no time. A lot of the older generation don't seem to have any understanding of the magnitude of the problem for young people today.

FWIW, I don't like avocado, I rarely buy take away coffee, I have a bog standard phone which is two years old, I drive an eight year old Fiat, I'm careful with my money but I simply don't earn enough to get a mortgage for a place remotely near my work. That's despite having a masters and experience. This is life for many people today and I'm very anxious about the future.

Every generation has its own difficulties. As jmayo above said, our generation had only two options, public service or emigration. I can even pinpoint the year when it changed. My next eldest sister luckily got a job locally but the majority of her class had to emigrate other than the small number who went to college, about 10%.


I did the leaving the following year and about half my year went to 3rd level and only 20% emigrated(most moving back in the 00s). My course then struck the public recruitment embargo and so we had to look for private sector employment and luckily most of the preceeding years graduates had found work and opened up sectors for us to work in. But that still took 4 years.


Our generation had to struggle to find a job, any job at all, anywhere, at any hours for any money. Your generations struggle seems to be to find accommodation, every generation has its hardships and hurdles to cross.

Rory28

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Our generation had to struggle to find a job, any job at all, anywhere, at any hours for any money. Your generations struggle seems to be to find accommodation, every generation has its hardships and hurdles to cross.

There is a point here about the Celtic Tiger that I can't quite express. We had everything there for a few years. I was fresh out of the leaving making serious money as a laborer without a care in the world. Hell you could lose a job one week and start a new one the following Monday. It was insane looking back on it.

The 80's from what my Father told me was as sh1t a time as any we are facing now but in between then and now we were rich as kings. What in the fcuk happened? Was it the bank bailout that left us up the creek without a paddle or poor planning(corruption) on the govts part or a mix of both? We should have had this accommodation mess under control by now.

Wanderer78

Rory28 wrote: »

There is a point here about the Celtic Tiger that I can't quite express. We had everything there for a few years. I was fresh out of the leaving making serious money as a laborer without a care in the world. Hell you could lose a job one week and start a new one the following Monday. It was insane looking back on it.

The 80's from what my Father told me was as sh1t a time as any we are facing now but in between then and now we were rich as kings. What in the fcuk happened? Was it the bank bailout that left us up the creek without a paddle or poor planning(corruption) on the govts part or a mix of both? We should have had this accommodation mess under control by now.

credit and debt is where its at! we figured out how to create ****e loads of the stuff, but we ve no clue on what to do with its accumulation, particularly debt, and to be more precise, private debt. lets see how this all ends up, as it currently doesnt look too good!

Berserker

Rory28 wrote: »

The 80's from what my Father told me was as sh1t a time as any we are facing now but in between then and now we were rich as kings. What in the fcuk happened? Was it the bank bailout that left us up the creek without a paddle or poor planning(corruption) on the govts part or a mix of both? We should have had this accommodation mess under control by now.

Credit was far too easy, which gave people the impression that they were rich as kings and the very same people didn't have a clue how to manage the debt that arose from that credit. Personal debt, another huge problem here, is rarely discussed in the public forum.

Wanderer78

Berserker wrote: »

Credit was far too easy, which gave people the impression that they were rich as kings and the very same people didn't have a clue how to manage the debt that arose from that credit. Personal debt, another huge problem here, is rarely discussed in the public forum.

.....and bill black is spot on here, 'behind every bad borrower, is a bad lender'!

noodler

seamus wrote: »

With the exception of rent, the country has not been getting very expensive at all.

Taken as a whole (including rent), the cost of living in Ireland has increased just 2.5% since 2011.

Average weekly earnings have risen 7.8% since 2011.

It's an absolute constant that the older you get the more you will remark about how expensive things are getting while forgetting that income is also rising.

On balance, the country is getting less expensive.

I'm sorry but that is such a stupid point to make.

If you are actually renting then the cost of living has increased enormously.

Obviously things aren't nearly as bad if you own your house.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Rory28 wrote: »

There is a point here about the Celtic Tiger that I can't quite express. We had everything there for a few years. I was fresh out of the leaving making serious money as a laborer without a care in the world. Hell you could lose a job one week and start a new one the following Monday. It was insane looking back on it.

The 80's from what my Father told me was as sh1t a time as any we are facing now but in between then and now we were rich as kings. What in the fcuk happened? Was it the bank bailout that left us up the creek without a paddle or poor planning(corruption) on the govts part or a mix of both? We should have had this accommodation mess under control by now.

Yeah, we should.


But banks weren't lending to developers to build houses for most of the last decade because they were afraid to cause or be seen to contribute to another housing crisis. And we also have had huge problems with objections to large developments, especially apartment blocks, which has only been removed lately.


And, from talking to friends in the building business, there is still difficulty in sourcing finance for the more modest housing developments while the luxury sector seems to have little difficulty to attract finance but will do little to solve the housing problem for Pat and Mary with ordinary jobs.


The Government kinda abdicated responsibility for pushing the housing sector into building in the last 3 or 4 years when it started to become apparent the demand was there for large numbers of 3/4 bedroom houses within commuting distance of Dublin.