6 Nations 2019 Build Up thread

Paul Smeenus

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/17/eddie-jones-jack-nowell-forward-england-six-nations

Say what now, Ed?

MOLF Hunter

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/17/eddie-jones-jack-nowell-forward-england-six-nations

Say what now, Ed?

It's an interesting idea, I'll give him that

Squidgy Black

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/17/eddie-jones-jack-nowell-forward-england-six-nations

Say what now, Ed?

So pretty much what Joe has been doing with his wingers for years now, strike runners off the 9 and getting them to concentrate on hitting rucks.

stephen_n

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/17/eddie-jones-jack-nowell-forward-england-six-nations

Say what now, Ed?

The game has changed. The game used to be 80 minutes, now it is 100 minutes.

I missed that, is this a new thing coming in for the 6N

Paul Smeenus

Squidgy Black wrote: »

So pretty much what Joe has been doing with his wingers for years now, strike runners off the 9 and getting them to concentrate on hitting rucks.

Yeah. No scrum role = not a forward. He's talking about using his wingers differently, is all, as far as I can see.

Sometimes I think Eddie just genuinely wants to be in the papers. Gartand loves his mind tricks, but Eddie, it seems, will say any aul' ballicks with a headline in mind.

On the other hand, a bit of innovation in tactics is never a bad thing. The choke tackle,for example. England despite winning, will be forever mocked as the team that were genuinely flummoxed by the Italians standing off rucks.

And, I don't know if was down to Eddie, but the Japanese countered their perpetual weight imbalance at scrums with a fresh - and pertinently, successful - approach at the last RWC. Get the ball through and out as quickly as possibly. They could do that efficiently and in a controlled manner even when they were skidding backwards, which they often were. They just thought about it in a new way - not as about a long, draining arm wrestle.

But I don't think this will be the revelation Eddie thinks it will be - that's if he even tries it, rather than just talking for the sake of talking.

Paul Smeenus

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Yeah. No scrum role = not a forward. He's talking about using his wingers differently, is all, as far as I can see.

Sometimes I think Eddie just genuinely wants to be in the papers. Gartand loves his mind tricks, but Eddie, it seems, will say any aul' ballicks with a headline in mind.

On the other hand, a bit of innovation in tactics is never a bad thing. The choke tackle,for example. England despite winning, will be forever mocked as the team that were genuinely flummoxed by the Italians standing off rucks.

And, I don't know if was down to Eddie, but the Japanese countered their perpetual weight imbalance at scrums with a fresh - and pertinently, successful - approach at the last RWC. Get the ball through and out as quickly as possibly. They could do that efficiently and in a controlled manner even when they were skidding backwards, which they often were. They just thought about it in a new way - not as about a long, draining arm wrestle.

But I don't think this will be the revelation Eddie thinks it will be - that's if he even tries it, rather than just talking for the sake of talking.

I think Eddie is trying to give the optics of new thinking and big ideas but really he is just spoofing and creating a platform to launch excuses from if England fail to deliver in the Six Nations.

As for Japan in the World Cup - South Africa didn't take them seriously at all. It was Ireland v Georgia except Georgia won. Yes Japan cleverly fought the scrum battle on their terms, and absolutely deserved to win but South Africa were on the start of a big slide that would see them suffer their worst run of defeats in history.

There isn't anything revolutionary about a weaker scrum getting the ball out quickly - the bigger news story was how South Africa failed to use the set-piece as a platform on their own ball.

One of my favourite games of rugby - but Jones get's too much credit for what was just as much a really bad day at the office for South Africa.

Paul Smeenus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think Eddie is trying to give the optics of new thinking and big ideas but really he is just spoofing and creating a platform to launch excuses from if England fail to deliver in the Six Nations.

As for Japan in the World Cup - South Africa didn't take them seriously at all. It was Ireland v Georgia except Georgia won. Yes Japan cleverly fought the scrum battle on their terms, and absolutely deserved to win but South Africa were on the start of a big slide that would see them suffer their worst run of defeats in history.

There isn't anything revolutionary about a weaker scrum getting the ball out quickly - the bigger news story was how South Africa failed to use the set-piece as a platform on their own ball.

One of my favourite games of rugby - but Jones get's too much credit for what was just as much a really bad day at the office for South Africa.

Well, it could have come from the forwards coach, anyway. And Japan had been doing it against a number of teams - it didn't just materialise for that game. But those are minor points - I agree with you. Particularly about SA underestimating Japan.

Ulster's scrum seems to be stabilising now, for which I am ridiculously grateful, but last season it felt like we had the worst scrum in the Pro12, and it was frustrating that we ever tried that approach; we just gave away penalties continuously instead. In fairness, it may take a degree of skill and organisation of which we weren't capable.

And I suspect you could be right about Jones effectively laying groundwork for excuses for a poor 6N campaign. "Hey, I said we were trying something new! Sometimes you have to take a chance."

aloooof

Deleted User wrote: »

I think Eddie is trying to give the optics of new thinking and big ideas

Completely, it reminds me of the time he claimed one man to clean out a ruck was the way forward.

razorblunt

Yeah, he's throwing shít at the wall here and some journalists are lapping it up e.g. Paul Morgan.
They were falling over themselves when Mallet picked Bergamasco at 9.


Greenwood is another saying "oh Harlequins used a winger in the back row this season" because yeah, Harlequins are flying aren't they and not at all facing 5 International backrows within the next 2 months.

reg114

In his comments Eddie says 'Ireland are a good team', to be hes never been anything other than disingenuous in his praise of Ireland's achievements especially against his England team. I would also question the wisdom behind his gearing his squad selection towards the Ireland game, surely you should cater for the opposition but ultimately play to your own strengths?

Thrashssacre

Is the Wales game more important (6 nations standing aside) due to the fact that IF Ireland were to make the world Cup final Wales may well be the team they face?

aloooof

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Is the Wales game more important (6 nations standing aside) due to the fact that IF Ireland were to make the world Cup final Wales may well be the team they face?

Hugely jumping the gun, imo. By this reasoning, I'd say Scotland is more important.

troyzer

We're far more likely to face Wales in a semi.

Thrashssacre

troyzer wrote: »

We're far more likely to face Wales in a semi.

Think Australia will beat Wales in the pool stages personally

Marengo

https://youtu.be/owP1J5cfRHE

Love this 6 Nations RTE opening from 2013.

Obviously don't want that year's results

troyzer

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Think Australia will beat Wales in the pool stages personally

Really? That would be some turnaround from Australia. They've been awful this year.

Seeing Wales in the final would also require them to beat the All Blacks at some point, something they've never done.

Podge_irl

troyzer wrote: »

Really? That would be some turnaround from Australia. They've been awful this year.

Seeing Wales in the final would also require them to beat the All Blacks at some point, something they've never done.

They have, just not since the 50s - which is more or less the same thing in all practicality.

Marengo

Certain teams tend to perform at World Cups. South Africa, Australia rarely have a bad one. Look at how SA only lost 20-18 to NZ last time round. They lost to Italy a year ago but getting their act together now. Australia are a team capable of rapid upturns in form too. 2011 was their poorest. In the final in 2015.

Bridge93

troyzer wrote: »

Really? That would be some turnaround from Australia. They've been awful this year.

Seeing Wales in the final would also require them to beat the All Blacks at some point, something they've never done.

Wales only beat them 9-6 with a kick a couple of minutes from the end at home in November. Australia butchered a couple of easy chances too. Australia will be favourites id imagine

Marengo

Argentina, needless to say, like 1999, 2007 and 2015 are another good WC team.

sydthebeat

6 nations thread lads .....

Marengo

sydthebeat wrote: »

6 nations thread lads .....

Apologies.

Thrashssacre

Anyone fancy Italy to pick up a win this year? They’ve improved lately but it’s looking like everyone has too bar maybe France who you never know until after kick off. I think they might beat France In Rome if France have nothing to play for at that point

razorblunt

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Anyone fancy Italy to pick up a win this year? They’ve improved lately but it’s looking like everyone has too bar maybe France who you never know until after kick off. I think they might beat France In Rome if France have nothing to play for at that point

I never discount Scotland from switching off against them either!

Marengo

Would be great to retain our confidence levels and head into the World Cup on the back of a 6N win, or even better a GS.

Injuries, as ever, will be key. And we do have a target on our back that was on England's last year. And we all know how their 6N went.

Marengo

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Anyone fancy Italy to pick up a win this year? They’ve improved lately but it’s looking like everyone has too bar maybe France who you never know until after kick off. I think they might beat France In Rome if France have nothing to play for at that point

Who else have they at home? Maybe Scotland, if at home. Hard to see Ire, Eng or Wales slip up. French most likely in the scenario you point out.

stephen_n

Marengo wrote: »

Who else have they at home? Maybe Scotland, if at home. Hard to see Ire, Eng or Wales slip up. French most likely in the scenario you point out.

Us in week 3

Marengo

stephen_n wrote: »

Us in week 3

That's where they could pick up a second win...

2013 all over again with POM on the wing and lads dropping like flies:D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Six_Nations_Championship#Table

troyzer

I didn't realise how decimated Scotland are with injuries at the moment.

Clegg

Jonathan Joseph has been added to England's Six Nations squad. He's been injured for a long time and barely played for Bath since returning to fitness. Doubt we'll see him in the match day squad for the opener. Good to see him back though.

Squidgy Black

Clegg wrote: »

Jonathan Joseph has been added to England's Six Nations squad. He's been injured for a long time and barely played for Bath since returning to fitness. Doubt we'll see him in the match day squad for the opener. Good to see him back though.

I'd say he'll be delighted as it'll help his contract negotiations. Rumour has it he's looking for a big payout.

Buer

I'd be delighted if he started. He has given us very little trouble in the past. I'd be more concerned if a fit Tuilagi is starting.

jr86

Buer wrote: »

I'd be delighted if he started. He has given us very little trouble in the past. I'd be more concerned if a fit Tuilagi is starting.

I assume they will start Tuilagi?

Buer

jr86 wrote: »

I assume they will start Tuilagi?

Hard to know. Slade and Te'o were the starting pairing in the autumn. Tuilagi was only coming back to fitness.

If he's fit, I'd start him but you wouldn't know. I don't think they could start Te'o and Tuilagi together in the centre. They'd get some serious go forward ball but a well organised rush defence would surely shut them down quickly with little prospect of the ball going wide.

England could be a handful this six nations or they could be as poor as their last 18 months have shown.

They didn't really show up in Twickenham last year and looked like a group of players who were pretty fed up and wanted a new deal (coach).

Having Vunipola back and bringing Tuilagi into the mix will give them more bite, but the deficiencies in their breakdown play will still see them struggle against organised forward units like Ireland, SA, NZ, Wales and maybe France.

Looking at Tuilagi playing for Leicester this season I also can't help but think having him start at 13 will give teams room around the fringes, he's a hard tackling mid fielder but I don't think he's a particularly good glue to hold the defensive line together.

The big thing in our arsenal is Andy Farrell, he knows a lot of these players inside out and we made England look very predictable the last time we played them.

It's first game up so everyone will be brimming and I expect the match to be played at an utterly ferocious pace and intensity, but I reckon we'll dish out a hammering by full time.

jr86

Deleted User wrote: »

It's first game up so everyone will be brimming and I expect the match to be played at an utterly ferocious pace and intensity, but I reckon we'll dish out a hammering by full time.

Depends on your definition of hammering I guess but I'd be very surprised if this was anything more than a one score game either way, and I think it could be quite low scoring overall

I think its safe to assume England are going to be a far tougher proposition than last March. They were playing with zero confidence after an abysmal campaign and of course Vunipola is a massive addition. Even then a lot went right for us, the first try and scoring just before HT. On another day you may not get the bounces

We shall wait and see anyway, but I'd be quite happy to take a scrappy low scoring win right now

ionadnapokot

Buer wrote: »

Hard to know. Slade and Te'o were the starting pairing in the autumn. Tuilagi was only coming back to fitness.

If he's fit, I'd start him but you wouldn't know. I don't think they could start Te'o and Tuilagi together in the centre. They'd get some serious go forward ball but a well organised rush defence would surely shut them down quickly with little prospect of the ball going wide.

Good point.
I reckon England will definitely start Tuilagi. Basreraud v Sexton Mark 2
Prob at 12 with Slade.
EJ is going to pick a team to run over Ireland.

jr86

jr86 wrote: »

We shall wait and see anyway, but I'd be quite happy to take a scrappy low scoring win right now

Well it's the six nations, as the France game last year showed you take any win you can get on the day and you move on from there.

I don't think you can look beyond 2 - 3 years when considering the form of a team. Leinster in 2015 weren't good enough for last 8 in Europe and by 2018 they are being likened to the All Blacks.

I think England on the basis of the last three years are a poor team and a bit like Ireland under Kidney. They can get up for a game and just launch themselves into it, but they can't do it consistently.

Whilst they were excellent against the All Blacks - they couldn't break down Japan at all during the same November window. Ireland would have bonus pointed Japan in that opening 40 because our system, fitness and intensity levels deliver consistently.

England didn't start to dominate that game until the second half when Japan ran out of steam physically and mentally. It highlighted for me how reliant they are on their best players and how the system breaks down without the physical ability of their first choice selection.

This really highlights why they struggle so much when there are injuries, but it also demonstrates how it's the players rather than just the system that delivers. Under Schmidt the versatility of how we play is as important as the players - in England it's all down to the players and the head space they are in on any given day.

Round 1 they should be all up for it - we are in for a right battle, but I think if we can frustrate them enough and the crowd gets on top of them then we'll find ourselves against the other England in the last 20 and will open them up from there.

That's my two cents anyway.

troyzer

Deleted User wrote: »

jr86 wrote: »

We shall wait and see anyway, but I'd be quite happy to take a scrappy low scoring win right now

Well it's the six nations, as the France game last year showed you take any win you can get on the day and you move on from there.

I don't think you can look beyond 2 - 3 years when considering the form of a team. Leinster in 2015 weren't good enough for last 8 in Europe and by 2018 they are being likened to the All Blacks.

I think England on the basis of the last three years are a poor team and a bit like Ireland under Kidney. They can get up for a game and just launch themselves into it, but they can't do it consistently.

Whilst they were excellent against the All Blacks - they couldn't break down Japan at all during the same November window. Ireland would have bonus pointed Japan in that opening 40 because our system, fitness and intensity levels deliver consistently.

England didn't start to dominate that game until the second half when Japan ran out of steam physically and mentally. It highlighted for me how reliant they are on their best players and how the system breaks down without the physical ability of their first choice selection.

This really highlights why they struggle so much when there are injuries, but it also demonstrates how it's the players rather than just the system that delivers. Under Schmidt the versatility of how we play is as important as the players - in England it's all down to the players and the head space they are in on any given day.

Round 1 they should be all up for it - we are in for a right battle, but I think if we can frustrate them enough and the crowd gets on top of them then we'll find ourselves against the other England in the last 20 and will open them up from there.

That's my two cents anyway.

I think the bottom line is that there are simply too many good players for them to never have a good chance at a victory.

But their systems and over reliance on individuals like Farrell and Billy V mean they're going to really struggle to win tournaments.

England may very well beat us but the race for the trophy is between us and Wales. England will find a way to **** it up against Italy or something.

jr86

troyzer wrote: »

I think the bottom line is that there are simply too many good players for them to never have a good chance at a victory.

But their systems and over reliance on individuals like Farrell and Billy V mean they're going to really struggle to win tournaments.

England may very well beat us but the race for the trophy is between us and Wales. England will find a way to **** it up against Italy or something.

They won two of the last 3 tournaments they participated in, in fairness

I'd be amazed if they lost any home game this year. Beating us would leave them needing to win in Cardiff for the slam imo

troyzer

troyzer wrote: »

I think the bottom line is that there are simply too many good players for them to never have a good chance at a victory.

But their systems and over reliance on individuals like Farrell and Billy V mean they're going to really struggle to win tournaments.

England may very well beat us but the race for the trophy is between us and Wales. England will find a way to **** it up against Italy or something.

If England beat us I think only Wales might deny them. I could easily see them winning the championship or slam if they come out on top in the aviva. They won't lose at home to Scotland or France.

jr86

Deleted User wrote: »

If England beat us I think only Wales might deny them. I could easily see them winning the championship or slam if they come out on top in the aviva. They won't lose at home to Scotland or France.

England have won their last 5 6n matches v Wales I make it?

They certainly wouldn't have any fear going to Cardiff anyway. FWIW - I think we will sneak past them though, but I think they'll win their last 4 matches

Dubinusa

I think if England beat us, they'll win the tournament.
But. if Farrell misses the 1st match, I like our chances.
Billy V makes them a different proposition and gives them go forward ball. Negating him, and we should win.

We see that they can play when they want to. They should have beat NZ. But, they were poor otherwise during Nov. It should be a great match.

Dog Botherer

Le Roux out for France, big loss for them, he’s been in great form.

Zzippy

Who's that poor lad in the Leinster academy who had to wear the red scrum cap last year and got the ****e tackled out of him all week? Put a Billy V mask on him and let VDF loose on him until Saturday week...

Zzippy

Zzippy wrote: »

Who's that poor lad in the Leinster academy who had to wear the red scrum cap last year and got the ****e tackled out of him all week? Put a Billy V mask on him and let VDF loose on him until Saturday week...

Or just do what Munster did and kick to him all day - worked for the first half at least!

Sangre

Deleted User wrote: »

Or just do what Munster did and kick to him all day - worked for the first half at least!

Ireland did it with Israel Folau as well. Not sure it quite worked 100% of the time though.

Squidgy Black

Zzippy wrote: »

Who's that poor lad in the Leinster academy who had to wear the red scrum cap last year and got the ****e tackled out of him all week? Put a Billy V mask on him and let VDF loose on him until Saturday week...

Will Connors (porridge). Rumour has it he still has flash backs to that day of James Ryan smashing him in a ruck.

mfceiling

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Will Connors (porridge). Rumour has it he still has flash backs to that day of James Ryan smashing him in a ruck.

James Lowe forgetting his name?

Marengo

Billy V

Sounds like a rapper

Hopefully he'll be chopped down all day long. The Welsh template v Ferris and SOB WC 2011.