Senior Garda suspended from duty.

Raheem Euro

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Here, take it from an ex-member. PEMS stores physical evidence, drugs, weapons, money, etc. The files are kept by the Garda during the investigation, on completion of the investigation, and for a while afterwards until it's known that there is no appeal. Then, and only then, is the entire file stored in PEMS. This is a recent addition though, previous to this, Members held onto files. It wasn't unknown to have the majority of your locker taken up by boxes and boxes of files.

While your theoretical idea of how it works looks great, it's doesn't work. PEMS is usually only open office hours. Not much good to a member working evenings, nights and weekends.

You're not following the logic.

PEMS system in operation for several years shows that exhibits can be stored centrally with access by more than one person (where appropriate and tracked)

Original statements are also exhibits of evidence.

There is no practical reason why if AGS wanted to that original statements could not be stored in either and expanded PEMS or other District store room operating the same tracking system.

Therefore if AGS do not choose to do this then they are creating the problem of distributed and inaccessible statements. Only they, are responsible.

So if the excuse for delayed disclosure to GSOC is dispersed and inaccessible statements then the point needs to be understood that that is AGS's fault. The onus is on AGS to store evidence in such a manner where if timely access is needed for any operational or legal reason that it can be gained.

To say "that's not how we do it now" is missing the point. It is how you should be doing it.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Bambi wrote: »

It was the gardai not being answerable to anyone bar whatever chancer de jour was minister for justice that created the problem.

My idea is a seperate police force to investigate the gardai. Who they are answerable to is irrelevant but all such forces in a democracy are generally answerable to democractic politicians.

Raheem Euro

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Not what I said. I suggest you take a few deep breaths. You are getting a little worked up. Then maybe consult your source again.

What source?

Captain Obvious

Raheem Euro wrote: »

You're not following the logic.

PEMS system in operation for several years shows that exhibits can be stored centrally with access by more than one person (where appropriate and tracked)

Original statements are also exhibits of evidence.

There is no practical reason why if AGS wanted to that original statements could not be stored in either and expanded PEMS or other District store room operating the same tracking system.

Therefore if AGS do not choose to do this then they are creating the problem of distributed and inaccessible statements. Only they, are responsible.

So if the excuse for delayed disclosure to GSOC is dispersed and inaccessible statements then the point needs to be understood that that is AGS's fault. The onus is on AGS to store evidence in such a manner where if timely access is needed for any operational or legal reason that it can be gained.

To say "that's not how we do it now" is missing the point. It is how you should be doing it.

Now read back your abusive posts towards me and show me where I said otherwise. What you think the system should be is not what it is. And you are the only one who has limited it to statements. As i said already, GSOC first generally look for a written response from the member before demanding any exhibits.

Raheem Euro wrote: »

What source?

Your information source

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

My idea is a seperate police force to investigate the gardai. Who they are answerable to is irrelevant but all such forces in a democracy are generally answerable to democractic politicians.

But would we need a police force to investigate the police force who investigate the general public?
& would we need a police force to investigate them?..............

blanch152

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its not the Marine Corps, no one can be 'dishonourably discharged'. Any previous cases of criminal wrongdoing by serving Gardaí have resulted in dismissal.

That dismissal obviously ends their service, but it does not remove their pension entitlement accrued up to that point.

Theres no chance that any investigation / proceedings will be completed by the time Fanning hits automatic retirement age later in the year, so it will be nobody's choice that he departs on full pension entitlement, or not.

Nothing whatsoever can be done about that unless the law around all public service pensions is changed to make them dependent on conduct. In the meantime theres no point griping about the Guards or anyone else 'looking after each other'

Simply won't happen. Pensions earned are considered private property according to the Supreme Court and cannot be taken off people.

You cannot take houses or money off convicted killers, why do you think you can take pensions off public servants, when they haven't even been convicted of an offence.

Franz Von Peppercorn

bubblypop wrote: »

But would we need a police force to investigate the police force who investigate the general public?
& would we need a police force to investigate them?..............

No. Unless single Irish cop is bound to be corrupt.

steddyeddy

blanch152 wrote: »

Simply won't happen. Pensions earned are considered private property according to the Supreme Court and cannot be taken off people.

You cannot take houses or money off convicted killers, why do you think you can take pensions off public servants, when they haven't even been convicted of an offence.

Well it doesn't sit well for a lot of people that gaurds who in some cases could be considered criminal walk away at retirement. I understand not taking the pension but in the case of the Donegal gaurds it was a case of framing someone for murder. A criminal case should have been brought against them and it wasn't. There was also the case of a young lad found hanging in a cell in Store st station. There has been a culture of criminality and cover up in the force for years and to restore public faith will take more than retiring people with a full pension.

Rows Grower

Criminal investigation dropped.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gsoc-drops-its-criminal-investigation-into-assistant-garda-commissioner-fintan-fanning-37853587.html

gctest50

Next ...........

Gardaí suspect gang bribed detective €20,000 for secret information on CAB probe


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-suspect-gang-bribed-detective-20000-for-secret-information-on-cab-probe-37849658.html

Rows Grower

gctest50 wrote: »

Next ...........

Gardaí suspect gang bribed detective €20,000 for secret information on CAB probe


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-suspect-gang-bribed-detective-20000-for-secret-information-on-cab-probe-37849658.html

I started a thread on that this morning.

demanufactured

Rows Grower wrote: »

The officer is facing allegations of serious misconduct and is the subject of a Garda Ombudsman inquiry.

I wonder has the case been in the public domain already.

I like snickers ice cream.

Bio Mech

gctest50 wrote: »

Next ...........

Gardaí suspect gang bribed detective €20,000 for secret information on CAB probe


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-suspect-gang-bribed-detective-20000-for-secret-information-on-cab-probe-37849658.html

Oh I was interested to find out what a “gang bribe” is (is it where a load of lads chip in a hundred quid each) until I realised I read that wrong.

Rows Grower

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/garda-chief-superintendent-suspended-for-allegedly-taking-secret-photos-of-female-colleague-38760768.html

Cee-Jay-Cee

Phoenix3 wrote: »

I doubt very much if it is him. HE didn't do any wrong in fairness. The dog still hasn't been found.

And those that made the false complaint have been charged with making false allegations.

Alfasudcrazy

I have read the various media reports on this and at face value find the suspension of Assistant Commissioner Fanning really strange and frankly ridiculous. While we did not see eye to eye on a number of issues I always found him fair and down to earth - not always the case with senior Garda officers. I wish him well on his retirement.