Connacht vs Munster, Sat 5th Jan 7:35pm, TG4/ES1

errlloyd

Can I just say. The most exciting thing about eirsports commentary tonight was when you could faintly here the Tg4 guy giving it socks over the eirsport mic.

Anthracite

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

We wont. It isnt really a notion at all.
From an Irish perspective, the other two main provinces that the IRFU wishes to be competitive on a European level need a supply from Leinster, so that relief route for Leinster's surfeit already exists, and Connacht works perfectly as it is as a sort of clearing house for lower level or academy players. This three tiered, four team structure is well suited to the number of professional level players Ireland can produce, and economically support.

Funnily enough, we weren't hearing this ten years ago for some reason.

Dave_The_Sheep

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

We wont. ... and economically support.

You've outdone yourself there, TROL.

(not a compliment)

durthacht

Dubinusa wrote: »

I reckon Connacht are a little better than suggested.
Some of Leinsters surplus players have developed into real quality player out west.
Connacht are very competitive at the moment and lads like Healy and Kelleher are doing great out in Galway.

and Tom Farrell. That guy is so impressive and I'm surprised he has not been in an Ireland squad yet. He is an outstanding player and, aside from Ringrose, he is as good as any other 13 in Ireland right now.

Utopia Parkway

Former Former wrote: »

I really hope for Connacht's sake that the players and coaches aren't happy with it.

Realistically Connacht were missing 5 or 6 very important players (pretty much all their internationals) and were up against a fully loaded Munster side once Murray and Stander came off the bench at half-time. Meanwhile Connacht started an emergency loan signing in the centre, had another emergency loan signing come off the bench and had a couple more kids come off the bench.

In the circumstances I think they gave as much as they could. Made errors yes but they toughed out a BP in the end.

Cookiemunster

durthacht wrote: »

and Tom Farrell. That guy is so impressive and I'm surprised he has not been in an Ireland squad yet. He is an outstanding player and, aside from Ringrose, he is as good as any other 13 in Ireland right now.

Wasn't he called into the Ireland squad towards the end of the AIs?

Dubinusa

The thing is that Connacht are playing very good rugby. There's no question that the 1st xv are very, very good.
It gets dicey though, the further down they have to draft players from.
I.E after Buckley and McCabe, there's nada.
Very short for loose heads.
There is only 4 good wingers in the squad. An injury or 2 and the standard drops.
Munster, on the other hand, have lots of quality on the wings. Even if Earl's and Conway aren't playing, there's Sweetnam and Wooten; R.O.M and Nash.
Although James Crinin is out right now, Loughman appears to be at least competent. Also, Liam O Connor is out. Munster are well stocked in all positions.
Tom Daly and Stephen Fitzgerald may ease the pressure for Connacht and may be worthy of contracts.
That remains to be seen.
Connacht are shy of depth in a couple of positions and are loaded elsewhere. I.E back rows.
It's a process to develop depth and to keep players happy with game time.

yerrahbah

https://twitter.com/SportTG4/status/1081647259685740547

Fla mic'd up during the warm up

Shefwedfan

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Anything to be said for the IRFU setting up a 5th Franchise at this stage?

https://dementedmole.com/2018/12/29/maintaining-a-lean-squad/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Need to stop to try and control the squad and revenue waste by Munster first

Former Former

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Realistically Connacht were missing 5 or 6 very important players (pretty much all their internationals) and were up against a fully loaded Munster side once Murray and Stander came off the bench at half-time. Meanwhile Connacht started an emergency loan signing in the centre, had another emergency loan signing come off the bench and had a couple more kids come off the bench.

In the circumstances I think they gave as much as they could. Made errors yes but they toughed out a BP in the end.

See, I agree with all your factual statements (except Murray and Stander came on during the second half, not halftime) but don't agree with the conclusion that Connacht should be happy with the outcome.

On the missing players; I'd say only Aki, Marmion and Butler are a big step up from those who replaced them. Apart from Daly, there's no one in the starting XV who jumps out as not belonging there, not in the same way the Ulster team was littered with cannon fodder. Calling it an Eagles team is nonsense. Munster were closer to full strength but equally, they hadn't won an away game in Ireland, Wales, Scotland, England or France in 13 months, this isn't a great team on the road.

Connacht should be aiming for a position where every home match is a win. If they need to be at full strength for every important game, that's not a viable situation to be in because injuries, player rotation, international absence is part and parcel of rugby.

Connacht have a golden opportunity this year by not having to worry about Europe - but next season, trying to fight on two fronts is going to be very tough. Squad needs to be strengthened again this summer, significantly.

Former Former

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Wasn't he called into the Ireland squad towards the end of the AIs?

No. Farrell and Adam Byrne were brought in for training but not actually called up

Akrasia

Former Former wrote: »

See, I agree with all your factual statements (except Murray and Stander came on during the second half, not halftime) but don't agree with the conclusion that Connacht should be happy with the outcome.

On the missing players; I'd say only Aki, Marmion and Butler are a big step up from those who replaced them. Apart from Daly, there's no one in the starting XV who jumps out as not belonging there, not in the same way the Ulster team was littered with cannon fodder. Calling it an Eagles team is nonsense. Munster were closer to full strength but equally, they hadn't won an away game in Ireland, Wales, Scotland, England or France in 13 months, this isn't a great team on the road.

Connacht should be aiming for a position where every home match is a win. If they need to be at full strength for every important game, that's not a viable situation to be in because injuries, player rotation, international absence is part and parcel of rugby.

Connacht have a golden opportunity this year by not having to worry about Europe - but next season, trying to fight on two fronts is going to be very tough. Squad needs to be strengthened again this summer, significantly.

Connacht are playing in Europe, and they have a realistic chance of winning their group and have a crucial match at home next weekend.

There are some extremely patronising posters on this forum

Former Former

Akrasia wrote: »

Connacht are playing in Europe, and they have a realistic chance of winning their group and have a crucial match at home next weekend.

There are some extremely patronising posters on this forum

And some extremely clueless ones too. Plenty of others who just lose their sh1t when they see anything negative about their own province. I'm sorry I mentioned Munster's away record.

Connacht have been sending out weakened teams in Europe all season. They've been using it for squad rotation which is exactly what they should be doing. They don't really care about it, and they're dead right too. The Pro 14 playoffs and qualifying for Europe next year are all that matter.

That's not patronising, it's fact.

connachta

Marmion, Buckley, Aki, Butler, SOB, Bealham (+Godwin at least on the bench).
That's 6 and a half who are surely and clearly above those who played yesterday. 40% of the team
+ Fainga'a and Kelleher, whatever you said about Europe, are overplayed and probably would have been rested under IRFU protocols


So Yes I maintain Connacht were not full-strenght by far.
That's not an excuse. Lineout throws and silly (Roux) penalties are still major problems to fix.
But having a BP vs THAT Munster team is an acheivement

Roll on Sale A next week !

its_phil

Former Former wrote: »

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Realistically Connacht were missing 5 or 6 very important players (pretty much all their internationals) and were up against a fully loaded Munster side once Murray and Stander came off the bench at half-time. Meanwhile Connacht started an emergency loan signing in the centre, had another emergency loan signing come off the bench and had a couple more kids come off the bench.

In the circumstances I think they gave as much as they could. Made errors yes but they toughed out a BP in the end.

See, I agree with all your factual statements (except Murray and Stander came on during the second half, not halftime) but don't agree with the conclusion that Connacht should be happy with the outcome.

On the missing players; I'd say only Aki, Marmion and Butler are a big step up from those who replaced them. Apart from Daly, there's no one in the starting XV who jumps out as not belonging there, not in the same way the Ulster team was littered with cannon fodder. Calling it an Eagles team is nonsense. Munster were closer to full strength but equally, they hadn't won an away game in Ireland, Wales, Scotland, England or France in 13 months, this isn't a great team on the road.

Connacht should be aiming for a position where every home match is a win. If they need to be at full strength for every important game, that's not a viable situation to be in because injuries, player rotation, international absence is part and parcel of rugby.

Connacht have a golden opportunity this year by not having to worry about Europe - but next season, trying to fight on two fronts is going to be very tough. Squad needs to be strengthened again this summer, significantly.

Buckley, Bealham, SOB, Butler, Marmion, Bundee, Godwin, and TOH. All of those are starters except possibly Godwin who would have been next up for Bundee. That’s a spine of a team you can use for rotation which Friend has done. Given all those players missing and how loaded Munster were, a LBP was a good result. We’re never going to manage an injury crisis as well as Munster and Leinster, that’s just a reality.

Taking one comment about Connacht Eagles is disingenuous to the rest of the sensible post by other supporters.

No one is delighted with the loss but sometimes you have to sit back at the end and say Munster played very well and we were running low on resources and just take your loss.

Is it detrimental to our season? No
Have we got a decent run of fixtures until round 21? Yes

On to Sale next week, which should be a cracker depending on what team Sale bring over.

connachta

its_phil wrote: »

Buckley, Bealham, SOB, Butler, Marmion, Bundee, Godwin, and TOH. All of those are starters except possibly Godwin who would have been next up for Bundee. That’s a spine of a team you can use for rotation which Friend has done. Given all those players missing and how loaded Munster were, a LBP was a good result. We’re never going to manage an injury crisis as well as Munster and Leinster, that’s just a reality.

Taking one comment about Connacht Eagles is disingenuous to the rest of the sensible post by other supporters.

No one is delighted with the loss but sometimes you have to sit back at the end and say Munster played very well and we were running low on resources and just take your loss.

Is it detrimental to our season? No
Have we got a decent run of fixtures until round 21? Yes

On to Sale next week, which should be a cracker depending on what team Sale bring over.

We completely agree, see my post above.
Connacht Eagles was exaggerated, I'm ok with that. But having Burke and DeBuitlear saw we were short on ressources

Sirius Boner

its_phil wrote: »

Buckley, Bealham, SOB, Butler, Marmion, Bundee, Godwin, and TOH. All of those are starters except possibly Godwin who would have been next up for Bundee. That’s a spine of a team you can use for rotation which Friend has done. Given all those players missing and how loaded Munster were, a LBP was a good result. We’re never going to manage an injury crisis as well as Munster and Leinster, that’s just a reality.

Taking one comment about Connacht Eagles is disingenuous to the rest of the sensible post by other supporters.

No one is delighted with the loss but sometimes you have to sit back at the end and say Munster played very well and we were running low on resources and just take your loss.

Is it detrimental to our season? No
Have we got a decent run of fixtures until round 21? Yes

On to Sale next week, which should be a cracker depending on what team Sale bring over.

Not a lot of sensible posts on here by Connacht supporters last night...

irishgrover

Sirius Boner wrote:

Not a lot of sensible posts on here by Connacht supporters last night...

I don't think the lack of sensible posts was limited to Connacht supporters.....but on the bright side it's a lot better then the cluster**** from last week when you beat leinster

Wegians89

Haven’t watched the game back yet, but looked like a poor bit of squad management in terms of targeting interpros and fatigue that caught Connacht last night. Disappointed Munster got the bonus point. Thought it was up there with the best Munster have played this season particularly away from home.

Tom Farrell was incredible. As was Pom and beirne. Think sob and butler were huge loses when it came to managing the threat of pom and beirne.

With six nations coming up Connacht have a great chance of making up some ground in terms of winning the conference/ second spot.

Sirius Boner

irishgrover wrote: »

I don't think the lack of sensible posts was limited to Connacht supporters.....but on the bright side it's a lot better then the cluster**** from last week when you beat leinster

I suppose it was quite a few Leinster posters first taste of defeat against Munster, the shock upset them....no such excuses here though

shootermacg

irishgrover wrote: »

I don't think the lack of sensible posts was limited to Connacht supporters.....but on the bright side it's a lot better then the cluster**** from last week when you beat leinster

Indeed this is very true. But the message there was we DIDN'T beat Leinster Leinster BEAT themselves

But never mind that, this is a new week and they are back to telling other provinces how they should be managed.

Bazzo

It's really a shame that so many muppets posters feel the need to come in and **** all over these match threads with posts that have pretty much nothing to do with rugby and everything to do with interprovincial nonsense, totally ruins the thread for the normal people who want to chat about that match.

WillieMason

irishgeo wrote: »

The ref is poor. Letting Munster away with everything and penalising connacht every chance he gets.

Irish Rugby is more corrupt then boxing

WillieMason

irishgeo wrote: »

They are booing the ref poor decisions. Quite rightly so. The oh so holy Munster fans never ever boo anything of course. ��

Munster are the worst fans in the world for twisting the truth

WillieMason

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

The number of Leinster players playing for both teams tonight is staggering.

I count it as 6 starters for Connacht and prob a 7th for Heffernan as he went to Rock and Buckley is from Roscommon but also went to Rock.

Munster had 4 starters from Leinster.

Ulster had 3 starters today and that’s without Murphy and Cooney.

Anything to be said for the IRFU setting up a 5th Franchise at this stage?

There should be a Dublin team

WillieMason

thomond2006 wrote: »

Phenomenal result for Munster!

phenomenal result against a weakened connacht team? sums up where Munster rugby is.

Deagol

WillieMason wrote: »

phenomenal result against a weakened connacht team? sums up where Munster rugby is.

Jesus, the high quality arguments are just dazzling .... <unfollows thread>

Buer

Precious.

WillieMason

connachta wrote: »

Very, Very good BP for Connacht Eagles+ vs Munster main!!!!!!!
Happy!

Connacht Eagles would have won if it wasnt for the corrupt Ref

WillieMason

Anthracite wrote: »

Stands to reason given where most of the country's population is. How about splitting Leinster into Dublin and Leinster?

Great Idea

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Precious.

Is it your birthday and you wants it?

jm08

WillieMason wrote: »

phenomenal result against a weakened connacht team? sums up where Munster rugby is.

At the top of its conference

irishgrover

On the bright side, it could well be possible that the return fixture, last game of the season, will have both teams going for broke...with plenty to play for

Donnielighto

WillieMason wrote: »

Great Idea

Better idea, drag the thread bag into niggle. Grow up.

WillieMason

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

The number of Leinster players playing for both teams tonight is staggering.

I count it as 6 starters for Connacht and prob a 7th for Heffernan as he went to Rock and Buckley is from Roscommon but also went to Rock.

Munster had 4 starters from Leinster.

Ulster had 3 starters today and that’s without Murphy and Cooney.

Anything to be said for the IRFU setting up a 5th Franchise at this stage?

Maybe a Cork Franchise since Munster's capital city which now feels ignored by the province??

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/donal-lenihan-munster-rugby-cork-348860

Dubinusa

I had no idea how large the Munster squad is.
The academy lads aren't given much of a chance.
Judging by D.M's article, there's cash flying out the window.
There must be a cull? How is it sustainable? What hope does the academy provide, if the lads aren't getting an opportunity?
But, there are some lads who can do a good job at other provinces.
ROM is a good player. He could move and strengthen another province.
Sean O Connor is not getting a look in, he could be a cheap option for Ulstet? Or Leinster?
Taute will be let go, I think. He's probably a top earner and is a bench warmer now.
D.O.C will also be released. His injury profile is awful and he's never had a really consistent run.
Hart is a goner, as is Keatley. Keatley will most likely go abroad.
Munster continues to sign NIQ's and it's detrimental to the homegrown lads.
It's bizarre.

Burkie1203

Dubinusa wrote: »

I had no idea how large the Munster squad is.
The academy lads aren't given much of a chance.
Judging by D.M's article, there's cash flying out the window.
There must be a cull? How is it sustainable? What hope does the academy provide, if the lads aren't getting an opportunity?
But, there are some lads who can do a good job at other provinces.
ROM is a good player. He could move and strengthen another province.
Sean O Connor is not getting a look in, he could be a cheap option for Ulstet? Or Leinster?
Taute will be let go, I think. He's probably a top earner and is a bench warmer now.
D.O.C will also be released. His injury profile is awful and he's never had a really consistent run.
Hart is a goner, as is Keatley. Keatley will most likely go abroad.
Munster continues to sign NIQ's and it's detrimental to the homegrown lads.
It's bizarre.

Taute off to Leicester apparently

phog

Some cracking trys in that game, Munster fully deserved the win though they let Connacht back into a game when they should have been home and hosed. Tom Farrell was MotM though if I was giving it to a Munster player I think I'd given it to POM.

We bossed Connacht from start to finish but let them carve us open a few times which allowed them get great trys. That rip had everyone confused but t'was a great rip, Botha won't like to see it in review.

I wasn't expecting a win up there so obviously I'm delighted with a BP win. Glasgow's three losses in a row really made last night's game a huge game for both Connacht and Munster, thankfully, Munster came away with max points.

irishgrover

phog wrote:

We bossed Connacht from start to finish but let them carve us open a few times which allowed them get great trys. That rip had everyone confused but t'was a great rip, Botha won't like to see it in review.

I was no more than 8 meters from the rip and I did not understand what happened..... Am guessing it took at least 2 seconds for the other players to figure out he had the ball.... To be honest I think it took him a little while to realise the same

almostover

irishgrover wrote: »

I was no more than 8 meters from the rip and I did not understand what happened..... Am guessing it took at least 2 seconds for the other players to figure out he had the ball.... To be honest I think it took him a little while to realise the same

He was dispossessed in the 2nd half too in similar fashion, body position too high allowing an opposition player to hold him up and rip the ball away. I'm not sure what to make of him as a signing. Can be a very powerful carrier and impactful tackler but his reading of the game and rugby brain appears to be lagging behind others in the squad. We haven't much cover at no. 8 though.

shootermacg

almostover wrote: »

He was dispossessed in the 2nd half too in similar fashion, body position too high allowing an opposition player to hold him up and rip the ball away. I'm not sure what to make of him as a signing. Can be a very powerful carrier and impactful tackler but his reading of the game and rugby brain appears to be lagging behind others in the squad. We haven't much cover at no. 8 though.

I think he's been a super signing. I also think he's a good reader of the game. People lose the odd ball on occasion, nobody is perfect.

connachta

irishgrover wrote: »

I was no more than 8 meters from the rip and I did not understand what happened..... Am guessing it took at least 2 seconds for the other players to figure out he had the ball.... To be honest I think it took him a little while to realise the same

Was made to be part of "Pro14 highlights of the season". Very nice, and funny (the Munster support competing in the ruck when the ball was 30m away)!

Tomtom364

almostover wrote: »

He was dispossessed in the 2nd half too in similar fashion, body position too high allowing an opposition player to hold him up and rip the ball away. I'm not sure what to make of him as a signing. Can be a very powerful carrier and impactful tackler but his reading of the game and rugby brain appears to be lagging behind others in the squad. We haven't much cover at no. 8 though.

He has been a fantastic signing. This was the first time I thought he didn't have a great game.

As for rugby brain, he shows up in great run support and ruck support lines.
A bit like CJ has developed, he needs to work on a few more passing Options but in fairness he is a monster carrier.

phog

almostover wrote: »

He was dispossessed in the 2nd half too in similar fashion, body position too high allowing an opposition player to hold him up and rip the ball away. I'm not sure what to make of him as a signing. Can be a very powerful carrier and impactful tackler but his reading of the game and rugby brain appears to be lagging behind others in the squad. We haven't much cover at no. 8 though.

Aside from the two in Galway how many more rips has he been guilty of? I can't think of any, not saying it hasn't happened but I doubt there's a pattern.

I think he's a good addition to our squad and I wouldn't be writing him of just yet.

leakyboots

Botha has been superb for us, think I posted some of his stats a few weeks ago where he was leading metres made, tackles and defender beaten. He had some uncharacteristic bad moments in the game the last day, first time he's shown it.

almostover

leakyboots wrote: »

Botha has been superb for us, think I posted some of his stats a few weeks ago where he was leading metres made, tackles and defender beaten. He had some uncharacteristic bad moments in the game the last day, first time he's shown it.

I'll relent and agree that this was just a bad day at the office for him. I think we're spoiled with Stander in many ways, it's difficult to think when last he'd a poor game. Very consistent performer.

Zzippy

phog wrote: »

Some cracking trys in that game, Munster fully deserved the win though they let Connacht back into a game when they should have been home and hosed. Tom Farrell was MotM though if I was giving it to a Munster player I think I'd given it to POM.

We bossed Connacht from start to finish but let them carve us open a few times which allowed them get great trys. That rip had everyone confused but t'was a great rip, Botha won't like to see it in review.

I wasn't expecting a win up there so obviously I'm delighted with a BP win. Glasgow's three losses in a row really made last night's game a huge game for both Connacht and Munster, thankfully, Munster came away with max points.

Can't argue with any of that. I thought POM was MOTM too, he was outstanding and the real difference between the teams. Munster's bench also made a big difference, having Stander and Murray to come on is something else. Surprised Munster didn't mince our scrum with the front row we put out, that was encouraging, but our maul defence was abysmal.

Buer

Zzippy wrote: »

our maul defence was abysmal.

Munster have a very good maul. They also had a very meaty front five on the pitch with Kleyn, Ryan and Loughman and Scannell would be a big lump for a hooker in Ireland.

I wouldn't have expected Connacht to be coming close to matching them there, to be honest even with their own fairly bulky front five. How many times would that front five have played together?

KBurke85

Buer wrote: »

Munster have a very good maul. They also had a very meaty front five on the pitch with Kleyn, Ryan and Loughman and Scannell would be a big lump for a hooker in Ireland.

I wouldn't have expected Connacht to be coming close to matching them there, to be honest even with their own fairly bulky front five. How many times would that front five have played together?

Fair point but It's not the only game this season where Connacht maul defence has been poor