11 yr/old drag kid worshiped within LGBTQ community (Mod warning op)

pleas advice

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

He's on the autistic spectrum according to his mother

https://m.imgur.com/a/xrv521C

all I'm getting from that is the kid still believes in Santa,

(just skimmed through it, cos seriously TL;DR)

ceadaoin.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It won’t do that at all. The whole intent of this thread sure is to link transgenderism to paedophilia. Linking homosexuality to paedophilia is old news. Transgenderism is the newest “threat” to society... apparently - associate paedophilia with anything you have an objection to and let people’s paranoia and revulsion of paedophiles do the rest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_4BZnWnXzI

Drag is very different to transgenderism (is that even a word) though isnt it?

It's the fact that a child was performing in a nightclub at 4am and grown adults were throwing money at him that is the problem here. And that he is apparently being exposed to drug use and unsavoury characters. Unsavoury as in a murderer with form for having sex with underage boys (well at least one that he has openly admitted to)


Any variation of this would be wrong - boy, girl, gay, straight, whatever.

magma69

That's messed up and the reason that's messed up has nothing to do with LGBT. Sexualizing of kids like that is appalling. What's a child doing in a club in the first place?

pleas advice

You can find me in the club, bottle full of bub,
Look mammy I got the X if you into taking drugs

One eyed Jack

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Drag is very different to transgenderism (is that even a word) though isnt it?

It is, and yes, transgenderism is a word -

Is "transgenderism" the correct word to use in regards to trans people?


The author of the first answer correctly identifies the context in which I would use the word, to refer to the ideology, philosophy or politics of transgenderism -

In referring to transgender issues as “transgenderism” it can be framed as an ideology, philosophy, political strategy… It places transgender issues in the realm of Environmentalism, Feminism, Libertarianism and any other -ism you’d care to think about. If a thing is a philosophy, ideology or political strategy then it can be diminished from the status of objective fact to controversial opinion. Once you move something from fact to opinion then it’s easier to build “everyone has an opinion” arguments and to place specious arguments on more equal footing.

Where I disagree with them however, is what they claim to be objective facts, are nothing more than just their opinion. It’s a different perspective is all, as opposed to anything even approaching an objective fact.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It's the fact that a child was performing in a nightclub at 4am and grown adults were throwing money at him that is the problem here. And that he is apparently being exposed to drug use and unsavoury characters. Unsavoury as in a murderer with form for having sex with underage boys (well at least one that he has openly admitted to)

Any variation of this would be wrong - boy, girl, gay, straight, whatever.

Of course it would, I’m not disagreeing with you on any of the above whatsoever. I’m not familiar with all the details of this particular case, but I’m skeptical of some people’s overwhelming concern for the child in question in this particular case, or their concern for children in general who happen to identify themselves as either drag kids/teens etc or trans, or their parents are raising them as trans and so on.

As you said the above concerns would be the same for any child in those circumstances, and that’s a fair point I don’t think anyone could disagree with. However, we don’t actually see threads every week started on the number of children in Ireland alone who are in these and similar circumstances, because they don’t come to our attention. What makes these cases stand out is because there’s some characteristics about them which are out of the ordinary, and in this case it happens to be that the child is a something of a minor celebrity because they’re a drag kid, and the parents are supportive of their child’s decisions. It’s a case that’s ripe for all sorts of ideology pushing, even this (don’t click if you’d rather not have the IT department raising an eyebrow if your internet activity is logged :pac:) -


IMAGE OF CHILD DRAG STAR DESMOND NAPOLES USED TO PROMOTE FAKE PRIDE EVENT SPONSORED BY PAEDOPHILE ADVOCACY GROUP


Basically this particular case is unusual for a number of reasons, but the main thrust of the objections to it are that it’s pushing an ideology which people who don’t share the ideology have every right to be uncomfortable with and disagree with. Personally, I’m not going to get much more than a ‘meh’ about individual cases that the mainstream media coo and goo over.

Zorya

AllForIt wrote: »

I think the greatest thing that annoys me about this is the idea that being into Drag is somehow part of one's identity in the sense it's akin to one's nationality, race, gender, sexual orientation etc. And that this Desmond kid in 'coming out' as a Drag artist at a young age is somehow a symbol of Dragism acceptance in society. This is absurd but that is the way this is playing out in the media. It's as absurd as a teenager 'coming out' as a plumber.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Drag is very different to transgenderism (is that even a word) though isnt it?

I meant to come back to this. Some comments seem to imply that associating transgender ideology with drag is bringing one or the other into disrepute.

Drag is most definitely included under the transgender 'umbrella'. By Stonewall, for example. Stonewall is one of the UK's largest LGBT charities and campaign organisations. If not the largest.





https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxt5PtvUsAA7CZJ.jpg:large

klaaaz

Zorya wrote: »

I meant to come back to this. Some comments seem to imply that associating transgender ideology with drag is bringing one or the other into disrepute.

Drag is most definitely included under the transgender 'umbrella'. By Stonewall, for example. Stonewall is one of the UK's largest LGBT charities and campaign organisations. If not the largest.

Note the disclaimer, it's one persons understanding, not everyone. As far as I know, most people do not associate drag with being trans. Trans by society is understood to be those who medically transition, not drag performers.
Even the drag performers themselves do not self identify as trans like our own Panti for example. I'd say there would be many mtf transsexuals p!ssed off at being labelled the same as men who put on costumes for a living and rightly so.

Zorya

klaaaz wrote: »

Note the disclaimer, it's one persons understanding, not everyone. As far as I know, most people do not associate drag with being trans. Trans by society is understood to be those who medically transition, not drag performers.
Even the drag performers themselves do not self identify as trans like our own Panti for example. I'd say there would be many mtf transsexuals p!ssed off at being labelled the same as men who put on costumes for a living and rightly so.

This is factually incorrect on a couple of points.

It is not the opinion of one person. Stonewall is a group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_(charity)

Trans is not understood by society as those who medically transition. At all. The Gender Recognition Act 2015 Ireland allows gender reassignment with self identification, no need for homrones, surgery or even a medical consultation.
Of course lots of drag performers do not identify as trans. By far the most are not transsexuals. But drag is included in LGBTQ. 100%. I was correcting the claim that drag is not included with transgenderism or vice versa. It is.

klaaaz

Zorya wrote: »

This is factually incorrect on a couple of points.

It is not the opinion of one person. Stonewall is a group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_(charity)

Trans is not understood by society as those who medically transition. At all. The Gender Recognition Act 2015 Ireland allows gender reassignment with self identification, no need for homrones, surgery or even a medical consultation.
Of course lots of drag performers do not identify as trans. By far the most are not transsexuals. But drag is included in LGBTQ. 100%. I was correcting the claim that drag is not included with transgenderism or vice versa. It is.

Where is that chart on the Stonewall website? I cannot find it.
Their terms state differently to the chart https://www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms#t . They use trans as an umbrella term, not transgender. In their list of who is trans, drag is not listed.

TRANS
An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois

And is not under the transgender listing either. And your word of "transgenderism" is not listed anywhere.

I think you misunderstand what I said. The GRA which does not mention your words "gender reassigment"(http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/changing_to_your_preferred_gender.html ) is the law on self-ID , I had said society. I do not know anyone from family, friends, work colleagues and our beloved media who say drag performers are trans, they know that they are entertainment artists wearing costumes and can differentiate between them and those with gender identity issues. And yes, drag performers do not identify as trans in the first place.

Marengo

Just came upon this utterly bizarre thread. It's shocking in that there appear to be posters who see nothing wrong with the whole scenario.

Zorya

klaaaz wrote: »

Where is that chart on the Stonewall website? I cannot find it.
Their terms state differently to the chart https://www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms#t . They use trans as an umbrella term, not transgender. In their list of who is trans, drag is not listed.


And is not under the transgender listing either. And your word of "transgenderism" is not listed anywhere.

I think you misunderstand what I said. The GRA which does not mention your words "gender reassigment"(http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/changing_to_your_preferred_gender.html ) is the law on self-ID , I had said society. I do not know anyone from family, friends, work colleagues and our beloved media who say drag performers are trans, they know that they are entertainment artists wearing costumes and can differentiate between them and those with gender identity issues. And yes, drag performers do not identify as trans in the first place.

Stonewall took its name from the Stonewall Riots in 1969 which included many drag queens protesting a police raid. Marsha P Johnson for example. So I presume the UK group which uses the name Stonewall is not negligent of its history.

Zorya

klaaaz wrote: »

Where is that chart on the Stonewall website? I cannot find it.
Their terms state differently to the chart https://www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms#t . They use trans as an umbrella term, not transgender. In their list of who is trans, drag is not listed.


And is not under the transgender listing either. And your word of "transgenderism" is not listed anywhere.

I think you misunderstand what I said. The GRA which does not mention your words "gender reassigment"(http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/changing_to_your_preferred_gender.html ) is the law on self-ID , I had said society. I do not know anyone from family, friends, work colleagues and our beloved media who say drag performers are trans, they know that they are entertainment artists wearing costumes and can differentiate between them and those with gender identity issues. And yes, drag performers do not identify as trans in the first place.

LGBT consortium, the largest network of LGBT groups, projects and organisations in the UK, hosts Drag Story Time for Children - http://www.lgbtconsortium.org.uk/directory/drag-queen-story-time

When Ru Paul dismissed transgender persons and said they would not appear on the show, there was a huge uproar - https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/mar/08/rupaul-drag-race-transgender-performers-diversity

Drag has long been part of LGBTQ - don't know why people want to pretend otherwise.

One eyed Jack

klaaaz wrote: »

And your word of "transgenderism" is not listed anywhere.

Zorya never used the word transgenderism, I did.

Zorya wrote: »

Stonewall took its name from the Stonewall Riots in 1969 which included many drag queens protesting a police raid. Marsha P Johnson for example. So I presume the UK group which uses the name Stonewall is not negligent of its history.

They are though. I mentioned it previously but there are many trans advocate groups who have attempted to rewrite history to support their agenda. They’ve been corrected on it numerous times too. This is what I mean by transgenderism as a social and political ideology, rather than anything with a foundation in biology and fact - attempts by groups like Stonewall to claim that gay men were transgender - suits their more modern agenda of course, but it’s attempting to rewrite history to make that claim.

klaaaz

Zorya wrote: »

LGBT consortium, the largest network of LGBT groups, projects and organisations in the UK, hosts Drag Story Time for Children - http://www.lgbtconsortium.org.uk/directory/drag-queen-story-time

When Ru Paul dismissed transgender persons and said they would not appear on the show, there was a huge uproar - https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/mar/08/rupaul-drag-race-transgender-performers-diversity

Drag has long been part of LGBTQ - don't know why people want to pretend otherwise.

So? No-one said otherwise. The disagreement is whether they are trans or not and you have been proven to be factually incorrect on this trying to link drag to "transgenderism".

Zorya

klaaaz wrote: »

So? No-one said otherwise. The disagreement is whether they are trans or not and you have been proven to be factually incorrect on this trying to link drag to "transgenderism".

Gosh I don't even know how to address this kind of garbled obfuscation so I will just leave my statements as they are, without further need to prove them. People can make up their own minds.

Bannasidhe

Zorya wrote: »

LGBT consortium, the largest network of LGBT groups, projects and organisations in the UK, hosts Drag Story Time for Children - http://www.lgbtconsortium.org.uk/directory/drag-queen-story-time

When Ru Paul dismissed transgender persons and said they would not appear on the show, there was a huge uproar - https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/mar/08/rupaul-drag-race-transgender-performers-diversity

Drag has long been part of LGBTQ - don't know why people want to pretend otherwise.

Who has denied that drag has long been a part of the LGBT community?

The point is that drag is not the same as being Trans.
Just like being Bisexual is not the same as being Homosexual.
They are different things but fall under the broad category of not heterosexual (although some - few granted - drag artists are heterosexual- Les Dawson used to do drag as part of his shows, Brenden O'Carroll has made his sizeable fortune dressing in drag.)
Drag simply means performing in the clothes of the opposite gender. Julie Andrews was in drag for much of the film Victor Victoria.
Trans is when your biological body is the wrong gender - the clothes are immaterial to that. A transwoman is a transwoman even if she is wearing a 3 piece suit.

Ru Paul - imho - was right as if someone is MTF trans than by wearing 'female' clothes they are not in Drag, they are wearing the clothes associated with their gender. For them to be in Drag they would have to be wearing 'mens' clothes - which would make them Drag Kings not Queens and Ru Paul's show doesn't do Drag Kings.

I happen to think that Drag Storytime is fabulous. You don't appear to think so. May I ask why not? Do you also object to Panto? That also has men in frocks entertaining children.

With respect, you are googling away mad about a sub-culture you are unfamiliar with and cherry picking what suits your argument with no understanding of the nuances and internal conflicts going on.

Zorya

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I mentioned it previously but there are many trans advocate groups who have attempted to rewrite history to support their agenda. They’ve been corrected on it numerous times too. This is what I mean by transgenderism as a social and political ideology, rather than anything with a foundation in biology and fact - attempts by groups like Stonewall to claim that gay men were transgender - suits their more modern agenda of course, but it’s attempting to rewrite history to make that claim.

We agree on something.

Personally, I think - though my opinion is constantly being updated - that the LGb movement have been hijacked by radical trans ideologues. This is terrible for them.
I am not politically concerned at all about individuals with gender dysphoria though they have my utmost sympathy as it must be a dreadful condition.
But the radical trans activists and idealogues (many of whom never 'transition' in any meaningful way) are pushing seriously dangerous and deconstructionist gender theory which is in many ways undermining LGB rights. There is an attempt at erasure of lesbians in particular, and a dear family member of mine who is a lesbian is enraged by it, like many others. Cotton ceiling etc. Surgical 'correction' of feminine boys, or masculine girls etc. Conversion therapy by another name.
I don't know how they ever became conflated as LGB are sexual orientations, and T is a gender ''identity''. These are completely different things.
Trans ideology is coat-tailing on the existing organisations and attracting huge funding now. It is not challenged because of the PC fear that to do so might be associated with older homophobia. Which is wrong. People are not transphobic when they criticise incorrect and unscientific ideology.
Drag kids are part of this desensitisation process by trans ideology.

Zorya

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Who has denied that drag has long been a part of the LGBT community?

The point is that drag is not the same as being Trans.
Just like being Bisexual is not the same as being Homosexual.
They are different things but fall under the broad category of not heterosexual (although some - few granted - drag artists are heterosexual- Les Dawson used to do drag as part of his shows, Brenden O'Carroll has made his sizeable fortune dressing in drag.)
Drag simply means performing in the clothes of the opposite gender. Julie Andrews was in drag for much of the film Victor Victoria.
Trans is when your biological body is the wrong gender - the clothes are immaterial to that. A transwoman is a transwoman even if she is wearing a 3 piece suit.

Ru Paul - imho - was right as if someone is MTF trans than by wearing 'female' clothes they are not in Drag, they are wearing the clothes associated with their gender. For them to be in Drag they would have to be wearing 'mens' clothes - which would make them Drag Kings not Queens and Ru Paul's show doesn't do Drag Kings.

I happen to think that Drag Storytime is fabulous. You don't appear to think so. May I ask why not? Do you also object to Panto? That also has men in frocks entertaining children.

With respect, you are googling away mad about a sub-culture you are unfamiliar with and cherry picking what suits your argument with no understanding of the nuances and internal conflicts going on.

My first post today was in respinse to two posts that wondered why drag and transgenderism are associated. I was pointing out that they are.
I know drag is not the same as trans. I said that.
I don't think confusing children with Drag Queen story time or gender identity education policies in school is a good thing. We will have to disagree there. Children should not be confused about their gender when young.
I am not googling away madly, don't worry. I have been researching this area for a long time and writing on it elsewhere. I am well aware of the internal conflicts going on. It is because of the incoherence in the ideology. There are many LGB people who are also working to point out the problems.

Bannasidhe

Zorya wrote: »

My first post today was in respinse to two posts that wondered why drag and transgenderism are associated. I was pointing out that they are.
I know drag is not the same as trans. I said that.
I don't think confusing children with Drag Queen story time or gender identity education policies in school is a good thing. We will have to disagree there. Children should not be confused about their gender when young.
I am not googling away madly, don't worry. I have been researching this area for a long time and writing on it elsewhere. I am well aware of the internal conflicts going on. It is because of the incoherence in the ideology. There are many LGB people who are also working to point out the problems.

There is no 'ideology' there is a dialogue. There is no gay manifesto. There is no homosexual HQ.
You may be aware of internal conflicts, but I really don't think you understand the nuances and politics involved.

You ignored my question about Panto. Are children going to be 'confused' about 'gender identity' by being entertained by Widow Twanky?
What, exactly, is the difference between drag storytime and Panto?

If you think children will be 'confused' by having a drag queen read them a story than you must be of the opinion that gender identity is extremely fluid and can be easily influenced by even short exposure to people playing around with the idea of gender stereotypes.

My son grew up seeing drag queens and kings - he was never in doubt about either his gender or his sexual orientation.
His children are very secure in their gender identities despite having chatted away to drag queens - and kings.

Zorya

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There is no 'ideology' there is a dialogue. There is no gay manifesto. There is no homosexual HQ.
You may be aware of internal conflicts, but I really don't think you understand the nuances and politics involved.

You ignored my question about Panto. Are children going to be 'confused' about 'gender identity' by being entertained by Widow Twanky?
What, exactly, is the difference between drag storytime and Panto?

If you think children will be 'confused' by having a drag queen read them a story than you must be of the opinion that gender identity is extremely fluid and can be easily influenced by even short exposure to people playing around with the idea of gender stereotypes.

My son grew up seeing drag queens and kings - he was never in doubt about either his gender or his sexual orientation.
His children are very secure in their gender identities despite having chatted away to drag queens - and kings.

There is ideology. Ask Judith Butler.

Panto artists are different than drag queen story tellers whose express purpose is to normalise gender fluidity as stated by LGBT consortium.

Portland Oregon has had an extremely progressive SOGI education policy for years. The OHS University there reports in its own studies than trans identity is up to 3% among young people. In my opinion this is either the result of indoctrination or an attempt at reverse indoctrination by an industry promoting its products.

I have stuff to do for rest of day so can't reply further. I appreciate your side of the debate Bannasidhe and read your posts with interest. We can perhaps agree to disagree. I'm still working through my own politics on this matter but find overall there is much to cause me disquiet. I apologise for errors I may be making but I am keeping in touch with the subject to be as informed as possible. So hopefully any errors will come out in the wash.

Bannasidhe

Zorya wrote: »

There is ideology. Ask Judith Butler.

Panto artists are different than drag queen story tellers whose express purpose is to normalise gender fluidity as stated by LGBT consortium.

Portland Oregon has had an extremely progressive SOGI education policy for years. The OHS University there reports in its own studies than trans identity is up to 3% among young people. In my opinion this is either the result of indoctrination or an attempt at reverse indoctrination by an industry promoting its products.

I have stuff to do for rest of day so can't reply further. I appreciate your side of the debate Bannasidhe and read your posts with interest. We can perhaps agree to disagree. I'm still working through my own politics on this matter but find overall there is much to cause me disquiet. I apologise for errors I may be making but I am keeping in touch with the subject to be as informed as possible. So hopefully any errors will come out in the wash.

Judith Butler is one person.
Her opinion is her own.
She does not speak for everyone.
We are free to agree or disagree.



I have been a lesbian my entire life, since the 1980s I have been involved in LGBT politics (I cut my teeth arguing against Lesbian Separatism as a 17 year old) and continue to be at the coalface to this day - I have even given open public lectures on LGBT history- and I have never heard of this LGBT Consortium and tbh have zero interest in it.
May I suggest you head over to the LGBT Forum and ask how many people are aware of it - without them having to google it?
While you are there you might ask how many have heard of Judith Butler let alone read her work.

I do have a lot of experience of U.S. universities and a lot of what they do make me snort in derision. My experience of them is they like to reference each other's work in an endless loop of funding generation 'shock' antics and will never use one word where seventeen will suffice.

Again, I repeat you must think gender is very fluid if you think children can be 'indoctrinated' by having a man in a frock read them a story.
Because that is what drag is. A male entertainer in women's clothes.
Whether it is Panti or Brenden O Carroll. It's drag.
Cross dressing as entertainment has been going on for thousands of years.

Now, I admit - I have had some serious arguments with radical Trans activists mainly because I say that not all butch women are 'really' men and not all feminine men are 'really' women. And I am certainly not the only one having that argument. But that has nothing to do with drag (which is just fun) - it has to do with a very binary view of gender being promulgated by some Trans activists which, imo, is a very 50s view of what male and female consists of and allows for no flexibility.
I am certainly no T.E.R.F - I fully support people who are transgender, but I do not agree that a butch dyke is a wanna be man as some would have it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Seen this on vigilant citizen the other day



Here's Desmond tarted up like a demented hooker as usual, posing with his murderer friend and some other likely freak under a picture of a child with the word Rohypnol.

This shít has paedos written all over it!

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Why had they a gofund me page(aug18), first for the holidays (2500 target ) and then an updated one because "whatever money desmond makes performing isn't enough to cover his basic living expenses" - his unemployed parents



For **** sake parents he's 11, it's your job to cover his basic living expenses

This is all very fücked up. I think the parent thing more so because when you have kids, you’re supposed to completely provide for them. Sure, teenagers get Saturday jobs but that’s just for if they want to buy extras over and above what parents need to provide and also to teach them about saving.

And then of course the parents are allowing him to perform at these clubs which is in itself effed up, but the fact that they are also expecting him to cover his living expenses out of these highly inappropriate club appearances adds another layer of effed up-ness to the whole thing.

The parents are to blame here completely. I remember begging my parents to let me take the bus to Galway with a friend in sixth class to go busking on the streets. They of course shut down the idea straight away because they were, you know, normal.

Bannasidhe

AllForIt wrote: »

Yes and if you said that in the Lesbian,Gay&Bisexual Forum you'd get short shrift by the mods and one particularly perpetually aggressive forum contributor.

The adding of ever more letters after the T now shows how ridiculous an idea it was in the first place to conflate homosexuality and transsexuality.

Well, firstly some trans people are lesbian, gay or bisexual.
Secondly the whole LGBT+ thing is a very broad umbrella term which encompasses those who don't conform to the standard 'norm' of cis heterosexuality.
Transsexual people found the LBG community more welcoming (sadly not universally welcoming) than the straight community. They could go to gay bars/community resource centers/bookshops/cafes as their real gender and not get hassle as the LGB community is used to people being more gender fluid.
Both were mistrusted/misunderstood minority groups who could find common cause.
And the first 'pro' homosexual academic works used the term 'inverts' - as if gay people's genders were inverted so transsexuality has been there since the beginning - albeit as a misunderstanding of homosexuality.

Most heterosexual transsexual people would love to just blend into the straight world - but as we have seen by the furore over toilets in the U.S. not all of the heterosexual world is willing to leave them alone to just live their lives.

Bannasidhe

Zorya wrote: »

We agree on something.

Personally, I think - though my opinion is constantly being updated - that the LGb movement have been hijacked by radical trans ideologues. This is terrible for them.
I am not politically concerned at all about individuals with gender dysphoria though they have my utmost sympathy as it must be a dreadful condition.
But the radical trans activists and idealogues (many of whom never 'transition' in any meaningful way) are pushing seriously dangerous and deconstructionist gender theory which is in many ways undermining LGB rights. There is an attempt at erasure of lesbians in particular, and a dear family member of mine who is a lesbian is enraged by it, like many others. Cotton ceiling etc. Surgical 'correction' of feminine boys, or masculine girls etc. Conversion therapy by another name.
I don't know how they ever became conflated as LGB are sexual orientations, and T is a gender ''identity''. These are completely different things.
Trans ideology is coat-tailing on the existing organisations and attracting huge funding now. It is not challenged because of the PC fear that to do so might be associated with older homophobia. Which is wrong. People are not transphobic when they criticise incorrect and unscientific ideology.
Drag kids are part of this desensitisation process by trans ideology.

I apologise.

You do understand the nuances of what is happening.

_Kaiser_

It's amazing that there are those out there defending what is clearly (to any rational person) child abuse, or trying to muddy the waters by bringing identity politics into it and thus using that to scream "-phobic" at others.

As a mature, legal, adult you can do or call yourself whatever you want so long as you equally accept that there may be others who don't celebrate your choices - freedom of expression works both ways, and as long as it's at least respectful then that's OK too.

But what is happening to this child is wrong on so many levels and there is no defence or excuse for it.

AllForIt

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Well, firstly some trans people are lesbian, gay or bisexual.

Well yeah obviously. Some ppl are into Video Games and some ppl are into Football but those forums here are rightly separated, not combined if one is into both video games and football.

Secondly the whole LGBT+ thing is a very broad umbrella term which encompasses those who don't conform to the standard 'norm' of cis heterosexuality.

Yes I know that thanks. It's too broad. As I said in an earlier post the term suggests a divide between straightforward heterosexuality and 'everything else'. I don't think this is very useful for the education of ppl who think they are just 'normal' and everyone else has a problem.

More seriously the issues that face the minority demos are completely different. Gays don't demand that they should have a right to use whichever public convenience they wish, for example.

Transsexual people found the LBG community more welcoming (sadly not universally welcoming) than the straight community. They could go to gay bars/community resource centers/bookshops/cafes as their real gender and not get hassle as the LGB community is used to people being more gender fluid.

Hardly going to be universally welcoming when they are heterosexuals in gay bars. Gays get really annoyed with ppl that think that their homosexuality is understood as wishing to be of the opposite sex. You often hear heterosexuals ask 'which one is the woman in the relationship' in relation to male homosexuality of course. Gay men do not desire to be women, we're quite happy the way we are thank you.

Both were mistrusted/misunderstood minority groups who could find common cause.
And the first 'pro' homosexual academic works used the term 'inverts' - as if gay people's genders were inverted so transsexuality has been there since the beginning - albeit as a misunderstanding of homosexuality.

They are going to be continually misunderstood when you use umbrella terms.

Most heterosexual transsexual people would love to just blend into the straight world - but as we have seen by the furore over toilets in the U.S. not all of the heterosexual world is willing to leave them alone to just live their lives.

I find this a odd statement. Homosexuals don't want to blend into the straight world as you put it, we want to be part of society as a visible demographic that isn't afraid to be different. Therefore your point just proves to me there is little if any at all similarity between homosexuality and transsexualism other than we are a minority, which really isn't much of a connection at all.

Bannasidhe

AllForIt wrote: »

Well yeah obviously. Some ppl are into Video Games and some ppl are into Football but those forums here are rightly separated, not combined if one is into both video games and football.



Yes I know that thanks. It's too broad. As I said in an earlier post the term suggests a divide between straightforward heterosexuality and 'everything else'. I don't think this is very useful for the education of ppl who think they are just 'normal' and everyone else has a problem.

More seriously the issues that face the minority demos are completely different. Gays don't demand that they should have a right to use whichever public convenience they wish, for example.



Hardly going to be universally welcoming when they are heterosexuals in gay bars. Gays get really annoyed with ppl that think that their homosexuality is understood as wishing to be of the opposite sex. You often hear heterosexuals ask 'which one is the woman in the relationship' in relation to male homosexuality of course. Gay men do not desire to be women, we're quite happy the way we are thank you.



They are going to be continually misunderstood when you use umbrella terms.



I find this a odd statement. Homosexuals don't want to blend into the straight world as you put it, we want to be part of society as a visible demographic that isn't afraid to be different. Therefore your point just proves to me there is little if any at all similarity between homosexuality and transsexualism other than we are a minority, which really isn't much of a connection at all.

I don't do multi-quotes so this will be brief.

There is still one sports forum divided into subforums.

I agree the letters are being added at a phenomenal rate and, I think, there is a danger that people are putting themselves in ever greater pigeonholes. However, the counter-argument is that the umbrella is simply turning into a parasol.

The acronym came into being when there was a very large divide between straight and gay - only one of them could get you prosecuted for having sex with your chosen, consenting adult, partner.
You may think there is no longer a division between the straight world and the gay world. Many would disagree, myself included. The posts here in this thread which attempted to link male homosexuality and paedophilia are proof positive there is much work to be done.

Yeah, thanks for explaining that to a dyke.One who has zero wish to be a man. One who has been called a 'fish' by gaymen in gay bars so I am not under any illusions about how welcoming some gays in some gay bars are... however, gay bars are -generally - not as caught up in notions of what gender should be wearing what clothes so for a trans person that can be as close as they get to a safe space to relax on a night out.

I didn't say homosexuals wanted to blend in to the heterosexual world (although the amount of 'straight acting'/'straight looking' guys on grinder show some certainly do) - I said heterosexual transsexuals do. And why wouldn't they? They are straight.

Wibbs

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

This is all very fücked up. I think the parent thing more so because when you have kids, you’re supposed to completely provide for them. Sure, teenagers get Saturday jobs but that’s just for if they want to buy extras over and above what parents need to provide and also to teach them about saving.

And then of course the parents are allowing him to perform at these clubs which is in itself effed up, but the fact that they are also expecting him to cover his living expenses out of these highly inappropriate club appearances adds another layer of effed up-ness to the whole thing.

The parents are to blame here completely. I remember begging my parents to let me take the bus to Galway with a friend in sixth class to go busking on the streets. They of course shut down the idea straight away because they were, you know, normal.

This. So much this.

Bannasidhe

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

This is all very fücked up. I think the parent thing more so because when you have kids, you’re supposed to completely provide for them. Sure, teenagers get Saturday jobs but that’s just for if they want to buy extras over and above what parents need to provide and also to teach them about saving.

And then of course the parents are allowing him to perform at these clubs which is in itself effed up, but the fact that they are also expecting him to cover his living expenses out of these highly inappropriate club appearances adds another layer of effed up-ness to the whole thing.

The parents are to blame here completely. I remember begging my parents to let me take the bus to Galway with a friend in sixth class to go busking on the streets. They of course shut down the idea straight away because they were, you know, normal.

Just as an observation, apparently Jodie Foster as a child actress was the breadwinner for her family - if her brother is to be believed.

But yeah - I don't think children should be working to support their parent(s). And if children are in the entertainment business (legitimate business) their parents shouldn't be their 'manager' - too many kids got ripped off by their so-called 'loving' parents and ended up with nothing.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Just as an observation, apparently Jodie Foster as a child actress was the breadwinner for her family - if her brother is to be believed.

But yeah - I don't think children should be working to support their parent(s). And if children are in the entertainment business (legitimate business) their parents shouldn't be their 'manager' - too many kids got ripped off by their so-called 'loving' parents and ended up with nothing.

I don’t know - Jodie’s mother appeared to have a decent career before becoming her manager. It doesn’t seem like Jodie grew up in dire straits. And if her mother did transfer the breadwinning responsibilities to Jodie, well, I think that’s awful! I’m not against child actors and performers per se but it should be age-appropriate, they should be chaperoned by a loved one at all times and there should be no expectation that the child support the family. That’s too much pressure on little shoulders and underdeveloped minds. It’s not a child’s responsibility.