11 yr/old drag kid worshiped within LGBTQ community (Mod warning op)

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote:

What's your age limit for a child to be allowed to start dressing differently to the "gender norms", aged 13 then?

Interesting question. I'm not sure. When in your mind is it acceptable for a child to consent to having sex?

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting question. I'm not sure. When in your mind is it acceptable for a child to consent to having sex?

Not the same question, there are laws for sexual consent. There is no law about what one can or cannot wear.

So if a child aged 5 upwards began dressing differently to the "gender norms" of your child in school, what action would you take, would you withdraw your child from that school?

Brian?

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting question. I'm not sure. When in your mind is it acceptable for a child to consent to having sex?

What are you comparing the ability to consent to a sexual act to choosing what clothes to wear? The 2 have almost nothing in common.

My kids dress themselves every morning, they rarely wear what I choose. Does this mean I'm ok with them having sex? Absolutely not.

Roger Hassenforder

Brian? wrote: »

What are you comparing the ability to consent to a sexual act to choosing what clothes to wear? The 2 have almost nothing in common.

My kids dress themselves every morning, they rarely wear what I choose. Does this mean I'm ok with them having sex? Absolutely not.

My kids dress themselves, i dont care what they wear. However what they wear is generally in line with their sex. Does this mean I'm ok with them having sex? Absolutely no


I reckon the point is when should a child be allowed make a decision that will/could have profound consequences on their life, their development etc.
When is a childs decision informed enough of the ramifications. All fine and well going "all right Jack, stick on that frock you like, and I'll drop you into school, the rest of the kids will just have to accept you. It'll be grand. It'll all work out."

Or is it a decision that a child shouldnt make?

Absolutely not. If it was the majority of children, then yes, I would.





Absolutely not the same question. I was interested in your opinion on it.

I was wondering if you accept that if a five year old male child wants to live life as a female, would you be fine with the parents facilitating that?

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Absolutely not. If it was the majority of children, then yes, I would.





Absolutely not the same question. I was interested in your opinion on it.

I was wondering if you accept that if a five year old male child wants to live life as a female, would you be fine with the parents facilitating that?

I'd be ok with it with a few caveats.

An open mind to changing back, it might actually be a phase.

Absolutely no medical treatments before they reach 18

Brian?

Brian? wrote:

I'd be ok with it with a few caveats.

That's a little bit crazy imo. Why would you abandon all logic and give into a whim of a five year old?

Would you do it about any other opinion they had? If they wanted to be treated as a dog? A furry? What if the child wanted to be treated like a fifteen year old?

What is it that would convince you that a 5 year old boy really wants to be a 5 year old girl but all other requests would be nonsense?

Roger Hassenforder

Brian? wrote: »

I'd be ok with it with a few caveats.

An open mind to changing back, it might actually be a phase.

Absolutely no medical treatments before they reach 18

You're ok with a 5yr old making such a decision.
5 yr olds normally believe in tooth fairies, unicorns, Santa, Easter bunnies, not that they have some form of gender dysphoria.
It might very well be a phase, but indulging it could see very adverse consequences for them.
Sometimes we have to protect them from themselves.

He'd probably be contacting NASA if the child thought he was a spaceman..

The Talking Bread

El_Bee wrote: »

My point is I'd rather kids harmlessly running around in drag than attack innocent people some of them disabled, people are trying to make out these drag kids are somehow damaging to society, I think the kids in that article are a much greater threat to society..

I think you are completely missing the point of, context within and opinions on this thread. I haven't a clue why you are dragging (no pun intended) that article out to play down the issues concerned with the principle subject matters on this thread........................... It is whataboutery at it's most stupid level.

klaaaz

Seems to be an obsession from some posters with boys wearing different clothing but none of the objectors to this would bat an eyelid at a girl wearing trousers which itself is against their "gender norms".

Roger Hassenforder

klaaaz wrote: »

Seems to be an obsession from some posters with boys wearing different clothing but none of the objectors to this would bat an eyelid at a girl wearing trousers which itself is against their "gender norms".

That would be a downside to the patriarchy
Girls get away with stuff boys wouldnt, anyway females wear trousers, leggings, tracksuits, coulottes, dungarees, PJs, jeans, skinnies etc.
Boys generally dont wear dreses.
Unless they're Scottish.

The Talking Bread

klaaaz wrote: »

Seems to be an obsession from some posters with boys wearing different clothing but none of the objectors to this would bat an eyelid at a girl wearing trousers which itself is against their "gender norms".

It is the sexualisation element of the clothing. We all know you know what the context of drag artistry.

Regarding raising an infant boy as a girl, again, gender aesthetics mean that it is abnormal parenting. A three year old kid hasn't the thought process, life knowledge/experience or intellect to take personal responsibility of some a state of mind or choice of lifestyle. It is 99% of the time that these cases are the result of parents experimenting and treating their child as a toy and pushing their own ideals on them.

Changing your gender is not normal, in the most basic sense of the word, and I don't mean specifically in a derogatory manner, I mean it is out of norm, you can't argue against your biological aesthetics, they are what they are. It is accepted and sometimes celebrated, like a lot of out of norm lifestyle choices but it is a decision that a minor cannot make themselves. They just don't have the maturity to do so. It is all about personal responsibility. As you grow older such personal responsibility passes over to you and you are expected to fend for yourself, mindfully, then you are perfectly entitled to make personal decisions such as gender recognition, but up to a certain age it is the parent who needs to rear the child and not press certain ideals on them that a child hasn't the maturity to make themselves.


And, no, trousers are not gender specific, again, we know you know that. You are being completely obtuse with that ridiculous comment. Or else very stupid.

No it's not. But you know this. It would however be unusual for a girl to wear trousers that weren't specifically made for women/girls.

General rule of thumb for you. If a boy buys his clothes from the girls section or a girl buys clothes from the boys section, it's usually going against the norm.

Why must you attempt to be so obtuse?

*Edit* did not see the posters above who made pretty much my point.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's a little bit crazy imo. Why would you abandon all logic and give into a whim of a five year old?

Would you do it about any other opinion they had? If they wanted to be treated as a dog? A furry? What if the child wanted to be treated like a fifteen year old?

What is it that would convince you that a 5 year old boy really wants to be a 5 year old girl but all other requests would be nonsense?

There were days when my kids identified as monkeys, dogs, robots and Lionel Messi. My response: "Yeah grand, just don't annoy your mother and make sure to clean up after yourself".

You're using a "reductio ad absurdum " argument. It's a week one.


But then none of that was a sign of gender dysmorphia which is a very serious issue. If they did tell me they felt like they were a girl I would go along with it and seek professional advice. What's my other option exactly? Say "no you're not, cope yourself on" and possible make a bad situation worse?

Under no circumstances would I allow my child to take hormones or undergo gender reassignment surgery until they were an adult and it was their own decision.

Brian?

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

You're ok with a 5yr old making such a decision.
5 yr olds normally believe in tooth fairies, unicorns, Santa, Easter bunnies, not that they have some form of gender dysphoria.
It might very well be a phase, but indulging it could see very adverse consequences for them.
Sometimes we have to protect them from themselves.

How is not letting them wear whatever clothes they want protecting them?

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No it's not. But you know this. It would however be unusual for a girl to wear trousers that weren't specifically made for women/girls.

General rule of thumb for you. If a boy buys his clothes from the girls section or a girl buys clothes from the boys section, it's usually going against the norm.

Why must you attempt to be so obtuse?

*Edit* did not see the posters above who made pretty much my point.

Why is "The norm" so important to you?

Brian?

Brian? wrote:

But then none of that was a sign of gender dysmorphia which is a very serious issue. If they did tell me they felt like they were a girl I would go along with it and seek professional advice. What's my other option exactly? Say "no you're not, cope yourself on" and possible make a bad situation worse?

If my 5 year old daughter said to me "I think I'm a boy", there is absolutely no reason to do anything other than say "no sweetheart, you are a girl".

How is that even a slightly controversial thing to say?

Brian?

Brian? wrote:

Why is "The norm" so important to you?

Because not all differences should be celebrated. Sure, there are differences in opinion, political stances, sexual attraction etc but to deny science and to say that a male child thinking he is female is normal or should in any way be normalised is abhorrent.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because not all differences should be celebrated. Sure, there are differences in opinion, political stances, sexual attraction etc but to deny science and to say that a male child thinking he is female is normal or should in any way be normalised is abhorrent.

Right so. That’s the very definition of transphobia. I’ll bow out here. There’s no point.

The Talking Bread

Brian? wrote: »

There were days when my kids identified as monkeys, dogs, robots and Lionel Messi. My response: "Yeah grand, just don't annoy your mother and make sure to clean up after yourself".

Your child did not believe they were a monkey. Nor did you accept them as a monkey and treat them such.

Your child did not believe they were a dog. Nor did you accept them as a dog and treat them such.

Your child did not believe they were a robot. Nor did you accept them as a robot and treat them such.

Your child did not believe they were Lionel Messi. Nor did you accept them as Messi and treat them such.

And even if they did, you would know they were wrong, would not take them seriously, would treat it as a game of pretend or childish fantasy and only play along to humour them, eventually resorting to explain to them that they were living in fantasy land if they really believed they were such.

You certainly wouldn't influence such as a life choice. And take it upon yourself to identify them as such and reassure them and rear them up as such.


I have heard some ridiculous counter arguments on here to play down gender identification, but this is possibly in the top 5.

Brian?

Brian? wrote:

Right so. That’s the very definition of transphobia. I’ll bow out here. There’s no point.

Excuse me? Not for the first time in this thread I have been accused of some sort of phobia but can you clarify this for me?

If my daughter at the age of five said that she was a boy and i told her " no honey, you are a girl". Then I am transphobic?

Brian?

Brian? wrote:

Right so. That’s the very definition of transphobia. I’ll bow out here. There’s no point.

Clarification or an apology is needed for this. Up until this I honestly thought we just had a difference of opinion. But now I am a transphobe? Disgusting.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

Right so. That’s the very definition of transphobia. I’ll bow out here. There’s no point.

Eh, no. That isn't transphobia.

You'll find most of us here are perfectly fine with transgender people. The issue of pre-pubescent decisions is what's being discussed.

I obviously won't get an apology or clarification of why I am apparently a transphobe but I will ask one last question to those who think I am:

What is the line for you people? What is the cut off to reality? What is not acceptable to define yourself as? What is taking it too far?

Genuine question.

Roger Hassenforder

Brian? wrote: »

How is not letting them wear whatever clothes they want protecting them?

We both seem to do it to a certain point.

That i have to explain the likely social and consequential developmental ramifications of allowing a 5yr old boy start going to school in a dress is worrying.
That you think its the sane as letting him dress up as Messi ir Buzz lightyear is frightening.

I cant honestly tell at this stage if you're a wind up merchant, i just so dangerously "woke", your kids (if you have them- which i doubt) should be taken into care, for you seem so eager to appease their childish and immature nature rather than have anything in common with those you accuse of being "transphobic"

klaaaz

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

That would be a downside to the patriarchy
Girls get away with stuff boys wouldnt, anyway females wear trousers, leggings, tracksuits, coulottes, dungarees, PJs, jeans, skinnies etc.
Boys generally dont wear dreses.
Unless they're Scottish.

So the girl is a crossdresser going against the "gender norms" just like alot of adult women in your lives. News for you, the girls did not become trans because of wearing trousers!

What's this obsession with dresses? A boy wearing a dress or a skirt does not mean that they have changed gender roles, it's a item of clothing! And the Scots wear kilts not dresses, unless you think their traditional robe is offensive for boys?

What are you and the other fashion police afraid of in letting boys choose what they want to wear?

Roger Hassenforder

klaaaz wrote: »

So the girl is a crossdresser going against the "gender norms" just like alot of adult women in your lives. News for you, the girls did not become trans because of wearing trousers!

What's this obsession with dresses? A boy wearing a dress or a skirt does not mean that they have changed gender roles, it's a item of clothing! And the Scots wear kilts not dresses, unless you think their traditional robe is offensive for boys?

What are you and the other fashion police afraid of in letting boys choose what they want to wear?

So what youre saying is...

Why do you persist in the position a woman wearing pants is cross dressing?

Jerichoholic

What sort of girl is the boy in the picture supposed to be? He looks like a drag queen, dressed by drag queens for their entertainment.

News for you: Nobody said they did.

Look, if you have a utopia where people can choose what they wear and not be judged then by all means campaign for it. OAPs with ass-less leather chaps, kids waring bikini thongs and men in full makeup wearing ballroom gowns and women wearing male fitting business suits and bowler hats sounds amazing.

Why fit into stereotypes or societal norms? I suppose if you went into your bank manager to sort out your mortgage and he came into the office wearing Speedos you'd be ok with it?

Why shouldn't my child's teacher come into school wearing knee high leather high heels and a boob tube?

How dare any of us for expecting people to conform? **** the oppressors. Viva le revolution