11 yr/old drag kid worshiped within LGBTQ community (Mod warning op)

Baggly

A line has been drawn and you know on thread isn't the place to discuss moderation. Get back on topic or stop posting. They are the options. I won't be giving further on thread warnings.

The Rape of Lucretia

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Define normality

In this discussion, where males are males, females are females, and neither is afflicted by a delusion that it can be the other. Normal, because this is the case for the overwhelming majority of people.
Some are detached from this normality, and think that one can become the other. This is not normality.

klaaaz

I see no-one can counter as to why millions of girls never became transgender because girls started to be allowed to wear trousers as a regular everyday wear in the last century. But yet when a boy desires to wear a skirt/dress they automatically are bullied, condemned and judged by adults here with everything malicious under the sun from being "not normal" for daring to show their individuality over an item of clothing.

(and for Roger, we're not talking about fishnets crotchless knickers, tasseled bra, feathered boa, 5" heels, fishnet bodkin, cod piece, suspenders, bodice, Escante Crotchless French Maid Thong, thigh high latex boots, thong, ball gag and a feathered pirate hat and Messi jersey, keep those items away from kids!.)

Potential-Monke

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

In this discussion, where males are males, females are females, and neither is afflicted by a delusion that it can be the other. Normal, because this is the case for the overwhelming majority of people.
Some are detached from this normality, and think that one can become the other. This is not normality.

Fair enough. But that is your opinion. There is no 'normal' in society. Normal is what that person perceives as normality. It's not right nor wrong. But it's not going to be the exact same as anyone else's interpretation of normality. It was 'normal' for men to rape their wives no more than 20 years ago and no be held accountable. It was 'normal' for 'teh gays' to be ostracised for being gay, now being gay is accepted as normal (my own uncle had to leave Ireland due to this).

It was normal for kids to play with asbestos at Christmas back in the day, as it was considered fake snow. It was normal to have slaves. It was normal to go lynching. It used to be normal to iron your hair, before hair straighteners were a thing (and I know some women still do it when stuck). Cocaine toothache drops were normal. It was normal for doctors to advise patients to smoke.

Normal changes. Right now, what we consider normal will not be what is considered normal in 50 years. Normal cannot be defined because it is so dynamic. Unless your idea of normal is sexist, racist, or any other -ist or variation thereof, then that's fine. But it's still just an opinion.

silverharp

klaaaz wrote: »

I see no-one can counter as to why millions of girls never became transgender because girls started to be allowed to wear trousers as a regular everyday wear in the last century. But yet when a boy desires to wear a skirt/dress they automatically are bullied, condemned and judged by adults here with everything malicious under the sun from being "not normal" for daring to show their individuality over an item of clothing.

(and for Roger, we're not talking about fishnets crotchless knickers, tasseled bra, feathered boa, 5" heels, fishnet bodkin, cod piece, suspenders, bodice, Escante Crotchless French Maid Thong, thigh high latex boots, thong, ball gag and a feathered pirate hat and Messi jersey, keep those items away from kids!.)

women have a choice at the end of the day , they can develop their feminine or their masculine side. Men would tend to be judged more harshly if they did the reverse in particular ways. thats just the way it is

Brian?

silverharp wrote: »

women have a choice at the end of the day , they can develop their feminine or their masculine side. Men would tend to be judged more harshly if they did the reverse in particular ways. thats just the way it is

And it'll always be that way unless we choose to make it different.

klaaaz

silverharp wrote: »

women have a choice at the end of the day , they can develop their feminine or their masculine side. Men would tend to be judged more harshly if they did the reverse in particular ways. thats just the way it is

Unfortunately true. I for one will never condemn a child no matter what age in what they desire to wear. If this offends and upsets the old fashioned traditionalists, tough on them!

The Rape of Lucretia

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Fair enough. But that is your opinion. There is no 'normal' in society. Normal is what that person perceives as normality. It's not right nor wrong. But it's not going to be the exact same as anyone else's interpretation of normality. It was 'normal' for men to rape their wives no more than 20 years ago and no be held accountable. It was 'normal' for 'teh gays' to be ostracised for being gay, now being gay is accepted as normal (my own uncle had to leave Ireland due to this).

It was normal for kids to play with asbestos at Christmas back in the day, as it was considered fake snow. It was normal to have slaves. It was normal to go lynching. It used to be normal to iron your hair, before hair straighteners were a thing (and I know some women still do it when stuck). Cocaine toothache drops were normal. It was normal for doctors to advise patients to smoke.

Normal changes. Right now, what we consider normal will not be what is considered normal in 50 years. Normal cannot be defined because it is so dynamic. Unless your idea of normal is sexist, racist, or any other -ist or variation thereof, then that's fine. But it's still just an opinion.

Those normals you quote are changes in fashion or culture, which are not immutable. Unlike, say 1+1=2 which you could cite as 'normal' in your sense of a widely accepted usage like hair straighteners.

But in fact, it goes much deeper than that. 1+1=2 is independent of opinion, and will always be so. Similarly, a male will always be male (whatever clothes, drugs, or cosmetic surgery are used to hide that fact), and a famale will always be famale. Culture will not change that norm, however much people want to believe in such in such fantasy.

Maybe transgenderism is the new religion. A group delusion, based on something people might like to be so, but in fact, is just bunkum.

silverharp

Brian? wrote: »

And it'll always be that way unless we choose to make it different.

why? , men being more feminine tends to mean weaker, more ineffectual , less likely to get attention from women. its easier for men to become more masculine rather than "hope"society would change assuming that is even desirable or possible given that there is an element biological determinism

klaaaz

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

But in fact, it goes much deeper than that. 1+1=2 is independent of opinion, and will always be so. Similarly, a male will always be male (whatever clothes, drugs, or cosmetic surgery are used to hide that fact), and a famale will always be famale. Culture will not change that norm, however much people want to believe in such in such fantasy.

Maybe transgenderism is the new religion. A group delusion, based on something people might like to be so, but in fact, is just bunkum.

Just to butt in here I strongly disagree with you. Transgenderism(is that even a word?) is not a religion or a delusion. In Ireland, only 12 children under the age of 18 out of a possible population of 900,000 plus schoolgoing children have obtained gender recognition certificates(HRT does not start until age 16 or is it 18, i'm sure someone will correct me on this). That tiny miniscule figure of 12 young adults has been sensationalised by the media and the right wing traditionalist supporters as the end of the world type crap happening to our children. It's like a super Daily Mail fanclub!

As to the recent discussion, an item of clothing that a person chooses to wear does not automatically mean that the person is transgender no matter what age they are. Somehow the fashion traditionalists get majorly upset at a boy choosing to wear non-traditional clothing and then those same people wonder why that boy suffers trauma as a result of the nasty attitudes displayed by the objectors. But oh no, nothing is said to girls about wearing clothing that are not "gender norms"!

How Soon Is Now

Really in fairness everyone has a right to wear what the hell they want weather there male female whatever. Just don't expect not to be judged in the process!


Thats the thing a lot of people need to understand and all the ''positive thinking'' in the world wont change this! If you do things that step outside of the boundary's of traditional norms that have being part of global society since day one don't sit there and wonder why your being looked at funny or judged in some way.



We all judge people everyone of us do it no matter how perfect some of us think we are!

klaaaz

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Really in fairness everyone has a right to wear what the hell they want weather there male female whatever. Just don't expect not to be judged in the process!

Thats the thing a lot of people need to understand and all the ''positive thinking'' in the world wont change this! If you do things that step outside of the boundary's of traditional norms that have being part of global society since day one don't sit there and wonder why your being looked at funny or judged in some way.

We all judge people everyone of us do it no matter how perfect some of us think they are!

Why judge what a person wears or how they present themselves? I couldn't care!

Your idol band(and username) from the 80's The Smiths were judged upon their appearance and individuality by the very same fashion traditionalists who condemn a boy for daring to be different and show their individuality. The Smiths didn't give a flying feck about the fashion police and so should everyone about each and everyone of us!

silverharp

klaaaz wrote: »

Why judge what a person wears or how they present themselves? I couldn't care!

Your idol band(and username) from the 80's The Smiths were judged upon their appearance and individuality by the very same fashion traditionalists who condemn a boy for daring to be different and show their individuality. The Smiths didn't give a flying feck about the fashion police and so should everyone about each and everyone of us!

if you can monetize it grand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sirHoeJ5Td8

How Soon Is Now

klaaaz wrote: »

Why judge what a person wears or how they present themselves? I couldn't care!

Your idol band(and username) from the 80's The Smiths were judged upon their appearance and individuality by the very same fashion traditionalists who condemn a boy for daring to be different and show their individuality. The Smiths didn't give a flying feck about the fashion police and so should everyone about each and everyone of us!

Thats the thing if u have thick skin you basically wont give two ****s what anyone thinks of what you wear or do anyway so it doesn't really matter.


At the same time you cant stop people from having opinions. If your doing things that make you stand out from everyone else attention is what your more then likely going to get!


An awful lot act like there deeply offended by being judged but they grave the attention and the support they get from it!

Potential-Monke

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for people wearing what they want, when they want. I actually compliment people when they're wearing something so radically different to the current fashion trends. It's great to see, and if I truly didn't care what other people thought of me (i'm getting there!), i'd be walking around in a full suit of armor, or a samurai outfit. I'll be honest, even the Kurta or Sherwani look super comfortable and I'd nearly wear them too. But I don't, because I still have an inner monologue of what people think of me, so to avoid being 'picked on' or commented on, I just wear jeans and a t-shirt (albeit a Qwertee).

The problem in this thread are the clothes this child is wearing. It's hyper sexualised in the gay market, it's clothing you see in films where the BDSM crowd are shown. It's not age appropriate. S/he can certainly wear clothes usually associated to one of the 2 main genders, but some clothing for those groups are just inappropriate for kids. As is the push to make him/her a gay/trans icon and parade that child around in front of adults, having money thrown at him/her. That's the wrong part.

And again, it's subjective, what I think is inappropriate others may think is fine. And I also think the same of straight/sis teens, specifically for the girls. I'm collecting my 16 year old niece from a party tonight. She'll have 2 of her 16 year old friends with her. I'm dreading it, because they're going to be wearing clothes that women my age would wear on a night out, and it's hard to not look especially as they all look over 18 (one of them would pass for a young 20-something). So we can't have us saying 'trans kids can't wear this' when sis-kids (that the right word?) can wear basically anything, or in most cases very little!

klaaaz

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

An awful lot act like there deeply offended by being judged but they grave the attention and the support they get from it!

How about that people stop judging others on how they dress? It is good to be different!

If I met you in real life and you presented yourself as in your avatar with that wonderful hairstyle, my first reaction would be to applaud you for defying the "norms" of having a short back and sides haircut for a male and showing your individuality!

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote:

If I met you in real life and you presented yourself as in your avatar with that wonderful hairstyle, my first reaction would be to applaud you for defying the "norms" of having a short back and sides haircut for a male and showing your individuality!

You would applaud someone showing individuality? Why can't we all do that?

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote:

How about that people stop judging others on how they dress? It is good to be different!

Why is it? Why?

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

You would applaud someone showing individuality? Why can't we all do that?

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it? Why?

These 2 responses show contradictions, the first is a good response but yet you question why it is ok for people to be different?

How Soon Is Now

klaaaz wrote: »

How about that people stop judging others on how they dress? It is good to be different!

If I met you in real life and you presented yourself as in your avatar with that wonderful hairstyle, my first reaction would be to applaud you for defying the "norms" of having a short back and sides haircut for a male and showing your individuality!

Don't think I've ever had that much hair in my life ha! Maybe as a teenager!

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote:

These 2 responses show contradictions, the first is a good response but yet you question why it is ok for people to be different?

Sorry. Out of context I don't recall.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote:

Sorry. Out of context I don't recall.

Individuality is great. Treating a five year old as if they have the capacity to judge or define themselves is toxic.

Is that what you meant? Is that how I contradicted myself?

Because I didnt

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry. Out of context I don't recall.

Deleted User wrote: »

Individuality is great. Treating a five year old as if they have the capacity to judge or define themselves is toxic.

Is that what you meant? Is that how I contradicted myself?

Because I didnt

What age of a child is suitable for you to tolerate that child showing their individuality?

How Soon Is Now

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Don't think I've ever had that much hair in my life ha! Maybe as a teenager!

This has given me an idea for a new thread!

Jmsg

Once sex has been completely divorced from procreation as it has this is the inevitable result. Those livid about this will be on the defensive in 20 years time. Mark my words.

Roger Hassenforder

klaaaz wrote: »

I see no-one can counter as to why millions of girls never became transgender because girls started to be allowed to wear trousers as a regular everyday wear in the last century. But yet when a boy desires to wear a skirt/dress they automatically are bullied, condemned and judged by adults here with everything malicious under the sun from being "not normal" for daring to show their individuality over an item of clothing.

(and for Roger, we're not talking about fishnets crotchless knickers, tasseled bra, feathered boa, 5" heels, fishnet bodkin, cod piece, suspenders, bodice, Escante Crotchless French Maid Thong, thigh high latex boots, thong, ball gag and a feathered pirate hat and Messi jersey, keep those items away from kids!.)

Why?
The 5yr oid wants to wear them...
Unless we've found your limit of what a child should wear?


Girls have always worn trousers/pants.
Fashions come and go, but since prehistory womem have worn pants. Men generally stopped wearing dresses some time ago. Its not cross dressing.

Jmsg

Jmsg wrote: »

Once sex has been completely divorced from procreation as it has this is the inevitable result. Those livid about this will be on the defensive in 20 years time. Mark my words.

Yeah, when you start to see this sort of craic you nearly think there might be some truth to the Church's take on sexual morality..

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

If my 5 year old daughter said to me "I think I'm a boy", there is absolutely no reason to do anything other than say "no sweetheart, you are a girl".

How is that even a slightly controversial thing to say?

Ok. Thats fine but if she continuously for months on end said it and refused to accept your answer and displayed extreme emotional upset and challenging behaviour for months on end, what then?

klaaaz

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Why?
The 5yr oid wants to wear them...
Unless we've found your limit of what a child should wear?

Girls have always worn trousers/pants.
Fashions come and go, but since prehistory womem have worn pants. Men generally stopped wearing dresses some time ago. Its not cross dressing.

You brought in items of a sexual nature into the discussion on kids our American friend, leave them out.

If it's not crossdressing for a girl to wear trousers, then why object to a boy who wants to wear a skirt?

The Rape of Lucretia

klaaaz wrote: »

If it's not crossdressing for a girl to wear trousers, then why object to a boy who wants to wear a skirt?

Because trousers are not gender associative. Skirts are.
If a boy want to wear a skirt, then he needs help with the source of the problem prompting the desire to wear a skirt, not a free pass to wear one and so compound his problems. It is flagrantly neglectful to let him wear it.