Landlord using tenants address for his post.

rocjohn

Wife and I have been renting an apartment for over three years now in Dublin.We rented through an agent.Shortly after moving in the landlord came to apartment and informed me he would be using our apartment for his post. Over the next couple of years any time he came to the apartment to carry out maintenance he demanded all his post which we were required to collect and store.Other times he comes to the apartment unannounced demanding his post.His father and mother who apparently live abroad also use our address which is collected by the landlord.All the post is of an official nature, nothing that appears to be personal. For example letters addressed to these three people come from Revenue,Social protection banks etc.
Despite repeated objections the landlord has told me it is his absolute right to have anything he wants delivered to the apartment.He was quite menacing at times and both my wife and I are fearful of a violent reaction if we pursue the matter legally.We are also worried our address is being used as a drop box for some nefarious purpose.
The tenancy is unregistered and landlord will not give us a contact address or e mail address,only a phone number. The Landlords father has taken over from the agent and deals with any issues by phone.
We have part 4 rights and know we should have exclusive right to the property in accordance with the Residential Tenancies Act.
This week he came to the apartment and there was an ugly exchange over the post. My Wife had a panic attack and is terrified.
Whilst we know we have rights through the RTB what we are afraid of is being attacked as a reprisal .Any different perspectives or advice would be appreciated.

Fol20

What is doing to make you think he will get violent?

How about if you just store hisnpost in a box in the hallway. Arrange a time every few months, he collects it and you dont exchange any words?

The only reason why i think someone would insist on something like this is if the ll doesnt have a permanent address themself or their using rent a room to avoid taxes. Others might have other ideas however thats all i can think of. You could also just not answer the door a few times if hes popping over too much to your house.

Graham

OP I'm not sure what you're hoping to be told other than the obvious.

If you fear for your safety, talk to the Gardai.
To get your tenancy registered talk to the RTB.
Either give the post to your landlord or return it all to sender.

A bunch of randoms on the internet are unlikely to enlighten you as to the reasons why landlord and family are having their post sent to your address.

I can't imagine the occasional envelope infringes on your exclusive use. Calling unannounced could potentially be infringing on your peaceful enjoyment. Talk to the RTB.

UpTheSlashers

rocjohn wrote: »

Wife and I have been renting an apartment for over three years now in Dublin.We rented through an agent.Shortly after moving in the landlord came to apartment and informed me he would be using our apartment for his post. Over the next couple of years any time he came to the apartment to carry out maintenance he demanded all his post which we were required to collect and store.Other times he comes to the apartment unannounced demanding his post.His father and mother who apparently live abroad also use our address which is collected by the landlord.All the post is of an official nature, nothing that appears to be personal. For example letters addressed to these three people come from Revenue,Social protection banks etc.
Despite repeated objections the landlord has told me it is his absolute right to have anything he wants delivered to the apartment.He was quite menacing at times and both my wife and I are fearful of a violent reaction if we pursue the matter legally.We are also worried our address is being used as a drop box for some nefarious purpose.
The tenancy is unregistered and landlord will not give us a contact address or e mail address,only a phone number. The Landlords father has taken over from the agent and deals with any issues by phone.
We have part 4 rights and know we should have exclusive right to the property in accordance with the Residential Tenancies Act.
This week he came to the apartment and there was an ugly exchange over the post. My Wife had a panic attack and is terrified.
Whilst we know we have rights through the RTB what we are afraid of is being attacked as a reprisal .Any different perspectives or advice would be appreciated.

Register with RTB, and report him every time he comes to the house unannounced.

Absolutely unacceptable behaviour from LL, but unfortunately not an uncommon mindset among them.

LotharIngum

rocjohn wrote: »

Wife and I have been renting an apartment for over three years now in Dublin.We rented through an agent.Shortly after moving in the landlord came to apartment and informed me he would be using our apartment for his post. Over the next couple of years any time he came to the apartment to carry out maintenance he demanded all his post which we were required to collect and store.Other times he comes to the apartment unannounced demanding his post.His father and mother who apparently live abroad also use our address which is collected by the landlord.All the post is of an official nature, nothing that appears to be personal. For example letters addressed to these three people come from Revenue,Social protection banks etc.
Despite repeated objections the landlord has told me it is his absolute right to have anything he wants delivered to the apartment.He was quite menacing at times and both my wife and I are fearful of a violent reaction if we pursue the matter legally.We are also worried our address is being used as a drop box for some nefarious purpose.
The tenancy is unregistered and landlord will not give us a contact address or e mail address,only a phone number. The Landlords father has taken over from the agent and deals with any issues by phone.
We have part 4 rights and know we should have exclusive right to the property in accordance with the Residential Tenancies Act.
This week he came to the apartment and there was an ugly exchange over the post. My Wife had a panic attack and is terrified.
Whilst we know we have rights through the RTB what we are afraid of is being attacked as a reprisal .Any different perspectives or advice would be appreciated.

Have you 4 years part 4 or 6 years part 4?

Garibaldi?

Have you got a rental agreement with this person? Whose name is on the utility bills? Is he possibly availing of the "rent a room" scheme?People have been known to do this while actually staying with a partner(for example) themselves and spending little or no time at home.

tvjunki

The landlord may just want the information going to the house. Dont even think about why they are going this. It is not your concern. Revenue social welfare etc has nothing to do with you.

Don't make a big issue about it or you will find you will be looking for a new place to live shortly.

Just put in a box at the door and agree a cartain day in the month to collect. I can't see it is a big deal. Be nice about it when you ring the landlord.

For all you know the parents could be ill and staying with the son for a while until back on their feet which has given you a roof over your head. People have situations they have to deal with and have a lot of strain on them.

Not a good thing to do "return to sender "expect to be out on your ear. Ring the landlord and have a chat. Don't cause issues. Leave as is.

davo2001

tvjunki wrote: »

The landlord may just want the information going to the house. Dont even think about why they are going this. It is not your concern. Revenue social welfare etc has nothing to do with you.

Don't make a big issue about it or you will find you will be looking for a new place to live shortly.

Just put in a box at the door and agree a cartain day in the month to collect. I can't see it is a big deal. Be nice about it when you ring the landlord.

For all you know the parents could be ill and staying with the son for a while until back on their feet which has given you a roof over your head. People have situations they have to deal with and have a lot of strain on them.

Not a good thing to do "return to sender "expect to be out on your ear. Ring the landlord and have a chat. Don't cause issues. Leave as is.

Hi Mr Landlord

tvjunki

davo2001 wrote: »

Hi Mr Landlord

In the process of becoming an x landlord.

Garibaldi?

davo2001 wrote: »

Hi Mr Landlord

Thoroughly agree with this approach, whatever the agreement may be. There is nothing to be gained by confrontation. However I would be curious about the non-registration with the PRTB. Most unusual!That would suggest that this might be a rent a room situation. Maybe the property owner is staying with his parents because they need care, as suggested above. There could be many reasons. The name on the utility bills would be highly significant here. I think the renters need to establish what status they hold there.

tvjunki

LotharIngum wrote: »

Have you 4 years part 4 or 6 years part 4?

6years part 4 started in Dec 2016 so they are in 4 year cycle.

Op tread carefully as you may get notice the landlord is not renewing to a further part 4......

Grumpypants

The only reason for the landlord not to register is to avoid paying tax. Not just rent a room, I would go as far as to say he is still registered at that address and is pretending it's not rented at all and is prob claiming some welfare payment too if you are getting those letters.

Call the PRTB and register yourself as the tenant to protect your rights. Then call and report suspected fraud to revenue and social protection.

I'm sick of subsidising these clowns.

mikemac2

The landlord is threatening and shows up unannounced demanding post. They are described as menacing

The OP is told nothing is gained by confrontation and to be nice about it

The Christians are here on Sunday morning I see

tvjunki

OSI wrote: »

Bull****. Revenue and Social Welfare are everyones concern.

Revene and social welfare are not stupid.

The owners could be paying tax on the property being rented out. People are assuming they are not paying tax or they are doing something shady.

Garibaldi?

If this property owner has not registered with the PRTB he should have done so(given that this is a normal tenancy, and not a rent a room situation). However, his attitude as described would indicate that he might not bother continuing to let his property if there is any hassle. He could decide to return to it or to sell it. If the renters are interested in staying there they should cooperate concerning the post.

LotharIngum

Grumpypants wrote: »

The only reason for the landlord not to register is to avoid paying tax. Not just rent a room, I would go as far as to say he is still registered at that address and is pretending it's not rented at all and is prob claiming some welfare payment too if you are getting those letters.

Call the PRTB and register yourself as the tenant to protect your rights. Then call and report suspected fraud to revenue and social protection.

I'm sick of subsidising these clowns.

Ive been accused of not registering tenants.
I was also accused of registering them late.

They got very, very aggressive one day about something trivial and started accusing me of avoiding tax and of not registering them with the RTB because they looked it up.
Then when I advised them to go talk to the RTB and stop annoying me about it they lodged a complaint with the RTB.

It turned out that the registration was just not updated on the RTB website.
And even when the RTB sent letter out confirming the registration they had the date registered as the date the letters were sent. I got a call with another earful from the tenant.

They were very hard work to be honest.

tvjunki

LotharIngum wrote: »

Ive been accused of not registering tenants.
I was also accused of registering them late.

They got very, very aggressive one day about something trivial and started accusing me of avoiding tax and of not registering them with the RTB because they looked it up.
Then when I advised them to go talk to the RTB and stop annoying me about it they lodged a complaint with the RTB.

It turned out that the registration was just not updated on the RTB website.
And even when the RTB sent letter out confirming the registration they had the date registered as the date the letters were sent. I got a call with another earful from the tenant.

They were very hard work to be honest.

Same here. Registered one tenancy, money taken for fees and no letter confirming tenancy. The rtb website is not updated straight away.

Avatar MIA

rocjohn wrote:

Wife had a panic attack and is terrified.
Whilst we know we have rights through the RTB what we are afraid of is being attacked as a reprisal.

Your wife had a panic attack and you fear physical harm - Why are you still there? Is the rent you are paying considerably cheaper than elsewhere?

Garibaldi?

Only a very foolish property owner would fail to register a tenancy. That is why I raised the question of what the actual accommodation agreement consisted of. Clearly is is a legal tenancy. The renters have every right to seek landlord registration, if that has not been done.

Garibaldi?

This sounds like a property owner who wants to get out of the business.

Grumpypants

tvjunki wrote: »

Revene and social welfare are not stupid.

The owners could be paying tax on the property being rented out. People are assuming they are not paying tax or they are doing something shady.

They are doing something shady, they are refusing to allow their tenants enjoy their home in peace.

I can't think of any legitimate reason to bully your tenant into collecting your post other than it being something shady. If they can call to the house they are living local so should update the postal address.

belfe

Also, if the landlord claims that he is living there, and he can use the post as proof of address, you are a licensee and not a tenant.

I'd start to look for a new house immediately and leave as soon as possible.

Put a post box on wall outside property. Give landlord the keys. Put all his post into post box. Now he’s no reason to enter property.

I can’t understand why it’s an issue to leave the letters aside it’s totally effortless. Anyone who has lived in house shares will be well used to a constant stream of letters from current, previous tenants and the LL and it never bothered me in the slightest to throw them aside.

Garibaldi?

belfe wrote: »

Also, if the landlord claims that he is living there, and he can use the post as proof of address, you are a licensee and not a tenant.

I'd start to look for a new house immediately and leave as soon as possible.

That is exactly what I thought when I read the post, Belfe. This property owner's approach suggests that he does not have a tenancy agreement with the people on his property.

LotharIngum

Garibaldi? wrote: »

This sounds like a property owner who wants to get out of the business.

I don't think there are many who don't want to get out of the business at this stage to be fair. The last one I met who wanted to stay in the business was last September. I might meet up for a pint during the week just out of curiosity to see if he is still of the same opinion, no, just out of sheer nosiness

Achasanai

tvjunki wrote: »

The landlord may just want the information going to the house. Dont even think about why they are going this. It is not your concern. Revenue social welfare etc has nothing to do with you.

Don't make a big issue about it or you will find you will be looking for a new place to live shortly.

Just put in a box at the door and agree a cartain day in the month to collect. I can't see it is a big deal. Be nice about it when you ring the landlord.

For all you know the parents could be ill and staying with the son for a while until back on their feet which has given you a roof over your head. People have situations they have to deal with and have a lot of strain on them.

Not a good thing to do "return to sender "expect to be out on your ear. Ring the landlord and have a chat. Don't cause issues. Leave as is.

The landlord sounds aggressive (of course we're only hearing the one side) but regardless, any tenant has a right not to be disturbed in their home by the landlord. That includes calling looking for post, but particularly calling unannounced. Unacceptable.



Also, I would repeat other posters suggesting that you register the tenancy with the relevant bodies.

Caranica

Start randomly marking items "not at this address" and returning to sender. Not everything, maybe 1 in 5/10. There's nothing deceitful, the landlord does not live at that address.

rocjohn

from reading the rtb website ,registration of a tenancy implies state registration of a home address as the site goes onto explain that without registration there may be problems claiming tax refunds,mortgage approval etc .
I interpreted ( I may be wrong ,its just my reading of what is written by rtb) this to mean that without registration a renter is not officially domiciled in the state and somebody else,in this case the property owner is actually living there.

The landlord had apparently lived in the apartment before we moved in .There was no one present when we viewed it other than the agent. The landlords parents have a property abroad where they live and according to them were involved in the property business and have other properties let out in Dublin.They apparently were using the landlords address for their post before we rented.They do not have any health issues as far as I am aware ( as suggested by one poster) that would necessitate them using our address.

We signed a one year standard lease,following which we attained part 4 rights.We would have moved out two years ago after one particular encounter in the apartment .I made a statement to the Guards that night,but decided not to lodge an official complaint in the hope things got better and because of the extremely tough rental situation.We rented the apartment at slightly above the market rate in the area at the time.
We have paid the rent in full and on time and have always promptly reported any maintenance issues to the landlord.

LotharIngum

rocjohn wrote: »

from reading the rtb website ,registration of a tenancy implies state registration of a home address as the site goes onto explain that without registration there may be problems claiming tax refunds,mortgage approval etc .
I interpreted ( I may be wrong ,its just my reading of what is written by rtb) this to mean that without registration a renter is not officially domiciled in the state and somebody else,in this case the property owner is actually living there.

The landlord had apparently lived in the apartment before we moved in .There was no one present when we viewed it other than the agent. The landlords parents have a property abroad where they live and according to them were involved in the property business and have other properties let out in Dublin.They apparently were using the landlords address for their post before we rented.They do not have any health issues as far as I am aware ( as suggested by one poster) that would necessitate them using our address.

We signed a one year standard lease,following which we attained part 4 rights.We would have moved out two years ago after one particular encounter in the apartment .I made a statement to the Guards that night,but decided not to lodge an official complaint in the hope things got better and because of the extremely tough rental situation.We rented the apartment at slightly above the market rate in the area at the time.
We have paid the rent in full and on time and have always promptly reported any maintenance issues to the landlord.

This doesn't sound like a simple issue of someone collecting post anymore.
It sounds like there is something more going on between yourself and your landlord.
If somebodies behavior is such that you are afraid of being assaulted then its a matter for the Gardaí. Report it. Let the Gardaí deal with it. And move out of the situation.

tvjunki

Caranica wrote: »

Start randomly marking items "not at this address" and returning to sender. Not everything, maybe 1 in 5/10. There's nothing deceitful, the landlord does not live at that address

That is not right. Op will end up without a home.

tvjunki

Grumpypants wrote: »

They are doing something shady, they are refusing to allow their tenants enjoy their home in peace.

I can't think of any legitimate reason to bully your tenant into collecting your post other than it being something shady. If they can call to the house they are living local so should update the postal address.

Your don't know the landlords financial position. Maybe trying to hold onto tracker? Need address for when they move back.
Why do people assume the landlord is doing something wrong.

tvjunki

Garibaldi? wrote: »

That is exactly what I thought when I read the post, Belfe. This property owner's approach suggests that he does not have a tenancy agreement with the people on his property.

It is not that straightforward. If the tenant is paying bills and their own letters going to the address then it is obvious two families cannot live in the one address.

tvjunki

rocjohn wrote: »

from reading the rtb website ,registration of a tenancy implies state registration of a home address as the site goes onto explain that without registration there may be problems claiming tax refunds,mortgage approval etc .
I interpreted ( I may be wrong ,its just my reading of what is written by rtb) this to mean that without registration a renter is not officially domiciled in the state and somebody else,in this case the property owner is actually living there.

The landlord had apparently lived in the apartment before we moved in .There was no one present when we viewed it other than the agent. The landlords parents have a property abroad where they live and according to them were involved in the property business and have other properties let out in Dublin.They apparently were using the landlords address for their post before we rented.They do not have any health issues as far as I am aware ( as suggested by one poster) that would necessitate them using our address.

We signed a one year standard lease,following which we attained part 4 rights.We would have moved out two years ago after one particular encounter in the apartment .I made a statement to the Guards that night,but decided not to lodge an official complaint in the hope things got better and because of the extremely tough rental situation.We rented the apartment at slightly above the market rate in the area at the time.
We have paid the rent in full and on time and have always promptly reported any maintenance issues to the landlord.

If you had an issue a year or so ago definately move.
You are paying rent into an Irish bank account from an Irish bank account registered yo that address. You can prove you have lived in the property in the form of bills, revenue letters, dr registration, bank accounts registered to the address, work contract. You will be ok so no issue with checking if domiciled at the address.

dennyk

tvjunki wrote: »

Your don't know the landlords financial position. Maybe trying to hold onto tracker? Need address for when they move back.
Why do people assume the landlord is doing something wrong.

Last I checked, mortgage fraud was in fact "something wrong..."

Also, the post thing alone might not be proof positive of wrongdoing, but the fact that he also hasn't registered the tenancy makes it a lot more likely that he's up to something shady. And that's all aside from the menacing behaviour that the OP claims the landlord has been engaged in.

Grumpypants

tvjunki wrote: »

Your don't know the landlords financial position. Maybe trying to hold onto tracker? Need address for when they move back.
Why do people assume the landlord is doing something wrong.

Then they could try something like saying their son is out if the country and they will collect the post for him in case anything important comes. They will only call at a set time once a month and just grab the post and run. And even throw in a free month rent at Christmas for the trouble.

But they don't they call at all times and bully the tenant when they complain.

tvjunki

dennyk wrote: »

Last I checked, mortgage fraud was in fact "something wrong

Obtaining a mortgage with false information is fraud. I don't think keeping a tracker is fraud. The mortgage is paid that is all the bank wants.

Garibaldi?

This would appear to be a legal tenancy, given information in a recent post.The property owner will be in trouble if he did not register. He will need to pay whatever is owed and register in future.The renter is not obliged to deliver post to the owner. The owner seems very dissatisfied for some reason and may exercise his right to end the tenancy on one of the legitimate grounds for doing so. This appears to be an unpleasant arrangement.

tvjunki

graham,
Sorry deleted [/quote] in error.

TheAnalyst_

For the first 6 months I'd abide it but any longer and previous landlords have found a huge amount of important mail suddenly hasn't arrived to the house. They eventually get the message.

dennyk

tvjunki wrote: »

Obtaining a mortgage with false information is fraud. I don't think keeping a tracker is fraud. The mortgage is paid that is all the bank wants.

If the terms of your loan require the property to remain your primary residence and you actively try to hide from the bank that you no longer live at the property and it's now being let out as a rental property and thus you are not abiding by the terms of your mortgage, that is still fraud.

Yes, the bank cares about the mortgage being paid, but they also care that the asset securing the loan is the borrower's primary residence and will be cared for as such. They don't want it in the hands of an unvetted tenant who may damage the property, they don't want it encumbered with a tenancy that will make it more difficult, time-consuming, and expensive to sell should they need to move to repossess it, and they don't want the owner's property insurance policy to be invalidated because the home is being let in violation of that policy's terms and conditions as well, possibly leaving the lender with no recourse to recover their money should the property be damaged or destroyed.

TheAnalyst_

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

For the first 6 months I'd abide it but any longer and previous landlords have found a huge amount of important mail suddenly hasn't arrived to the house. They eventually get the message.

Pretty s*itty thing to do, why not just throw the mail in a box for him/her to collect. It’s effortless.

TheAnalyst_

Meilani Wet Rival wrote: »

Pretty s*itty thing to do, why not just throw the mail in a box for him/her to collect. It’s effortless.

It’s my house and not someone else’s mailbox. Knock a hundred off the rent if you want that sort of service.

Avatar MIA

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

It’s my house and not someone else’s mailbox. Knock a hundred off the rent if you want that sort of service.

It may be your home, but it's not your house. That behaviour is a bit suspect and I'd have you out of there ASAP.

Garibaldi?

It sounds like the relationship between the property owner and the renter is beyond repair, to be quite honest. How that happened or whose fault it was is not relevant. The renter appears to have a legitimate lease, but if I were him I would be expecting an early termination on one of the accepted owner's grounds, and I would be looking for somewhere else. Owners and renters do not need to be bosom pals but there has to be a certain good-will factor I cannot understand how anyone would stay in a place where he and his wife felt intimidated as described. Nor is it likely that an owner would wish to continue in a contract with individuals who have reported him to the police.

TheAnalyst_

Avatar MIA wrote: »

It may be your home, but it's not your house. That behaviour is a bit suspect and I'd have you out of there ASAP.

It is my house. I have rights to reside in it. He doesn't.


You wouldn't have a chance with me big man. The law is on my side.

Avatar MIA

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

It is my house. I have rights to reside in it. He doesn't.


You wouldn't have a chance with me big man. The law is on my side.

Try selling "your house".

There are ways and means. Destroying personal property, i.e. post being a good start.

Garibaldi?

Dont feed the trolls people.

TheAnalyst_

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Try selling "your house".

There are ways and means. Destroying personal property, i.e. post being a good start.

That's what these hard man landlords think. They soon forget that they're the ones with a fixed addrsss and tangible assets. And if they're using the tenants house for mail then that will likely be interesting to revenue and banks.

I completely destroyed one landlord that crossed me before.

Garibaldi?

Don't feed the trolls folks

the_syco

dennyk wrote: »

the fact that he also hasn't registered the tenancy

The PTRB takes an age to update their database.

Anyhoo's, as the OP lives in fear of the landlord, IMO if they're not going to stand up against him, the OP should move.