No vision for a rapidly changing Ireland

JupiterKid

Ireland is changing beyond all recognition.

Rural Ireland is slowly dying - this country is rapidly urbanising, particularly in and around Dublin - our City State (I have co-authored a number of papers on regional and urban trends in Ireland with another due out in May next).

Outside of the commuter belts of Dublin and Cork and the regional cities of Galway, Limerick and Waterford, rural Ireland is now in serious trouble. Analysis of census figures of smaller rural towns makes for unsettling reading.

Some coastal towns and a couple of tourist spots are holding up but so much of rural Ireland is in a very sad state of irreversible decline.

The Church is all but dead.

Local services are being closed down.

Pub culture is dying out.

The GAA is holding up, thankfully.

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

DontThankMe

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland is changing beyond all recognition.

Rural Ireland is slowly dying - this country is rapidly urbanising, particularly in and around Dublin - our City State (I have co-authored a paper on the regional trends in Ireland due out in May next).

Outside of the commuter belts of Dublin and Cork and the regional cities of Galway, Limerick and Waterford, rural Ireland is now in serious trouble. Analysis of census figures of smaller rural towns makes for unsettling reading.

Some coastal towns and a couple of tourist spots are holding up but so much of rural Ireland is in a very sad state of irreversible decline.

The Church is all but dead.

Local services are being closed down.

Pub culture is dying out.

The GAA is holding up, thankfully.

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

All I'm reading is problems and no solutions. How do you propose that the government could fix some of the problems that you have mentioned.

ballsymchugh

Mullinalaghta will sort it out.

Kidkinobe

Isn't that a good thing? People moan about traffic, population, congestion, riff raff on street corners, ra ra ra in the main cities due to development..So why not let rural Ireland remain the way it always was...

dxhound2005

It's unlikely that a lot of rural towns suffered a decline in population. Because nearly every county had a population increase (Census 2011 to Census 2016).

Sardonicat

I don't see the decline of pub 'culture' as a loss TBH.

kneemos

Is there a housing crisis in rural Ireland?

JupiterKid

DontThankMe wrote: »

All I'm reading is problems and no solutions. How do you propose that the government could fix some of the problems that you have mentioned.

I have plenty of ideas, including developing towns in the 10k to 20k category outside of the commuter zones. But I’m not giving away the ideas I and my co-authors in our paper propose.

I’m suggesting that others here can contribute with ideas. I have quite a few.

One thing is for sure, the current govt do not care about those outside of their inner circle and have no coherent strategy or vision for this country. Oh yes, there IS the Ireland 2040 plan to add an extra million people here - where will they live, how will they live, how will they make a living?

dxhound2005

JupiterKid wrote: »

I have plenty of ideas, including developing towns in the 10k to 20k category outside of the commuter zones. But I’m not giving away the ideas I and my co-authors in our paper propose.

I’m suggesting that others here can contribute with ideas. I have quite a few.

One thing is for sure, the current govt do not care about those outside of their inner circle and have no coherent strategy or vision for this country. Oh yes, there IS the Ireland 2040 plan to add an extra million people here - where will they live, how will they live, how will they make a living?

The population increased by about a million over a 20 year period recently. Where do they live, how do they live, how do they make a living?

Collie D

So you’ve got a solution but you won’t share it and want us to give you our ideas?

Are you looking for help with a thesis or something?

rossie1977

Can only speak for this area but the towns of Castlebar, Roscommon, Carrick on-Shannon, Athlone, Longford have all seen growth over past 10-20 years.

Tuco88

Sardonicat wrote: »

I don't see the decline of pub 'culture' as a loss TBH.

Id prefer to see people drinking in the pub with others than at home.

Sardonicat

Tuco88 wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

I don't see the decline of pub 'culture' as a loss TBH.

Id prefer to see people drinking in the pub with others than at home.

Why? Do you think people who don't go to pubs are all at home swigging vino alone?

ligerdub

dxhound2005 wrote:

The population increased by about a million over a 20 year period recently. Where do they live, how do they live, how do they make a living?

To be fair housing is in an emergency situation in this country now. Everything is geared towards Dublin, aimed at large multinationals based in Dublin, where there is a severe gridlock every working day and where it's pretty much at an unaffordable cost of living. Dublin has become a poor place to live and work.

kneemos

ligerdub wrote: »

To be fair housing is in an emergency situation in this country now. Everything is geared towards Dublin, aimed at large multinationals based in Dublin, where there is a severe gridlock every working day and where it's pretty much at an unaffordable cost of living. Dublin has become a poor place to live and work.

Housing in Dublin. Yer man is on about rural Ireland.

dxhound2005

ligerdub wrote: »

To be fair housing is in an emergency situation in this country now. Everything is geared towards Dublin, aimed at large multinationals based in Dublin, where there is a severe gridlock every working day and where it's pretty much at an unaffordable cost of living. Dublin has become a poor place to live and work.

Everyone except the rough sleepers are accommodated somewhere. It is no more of an emergency than other countries, just that our media reports it more. On the BBC today, they reported on young people looking for accommodation. In Wales the Council put one of them in a tent.

DontThankMe

JupiterKid wrote: »

I have plenty of ideas, including developing towns in the 10k to 20k category outside of the commuter zones. But I’m not giving away the ideas I and my co-authors in our paper propose.

I’m suggesting that others here can contribute with ideas. I have quite a few.

One thing is for sure, the current govt do not care about those outside of their inner circle and have no coherent strategy or vision for this country. Oh yes, there IS the Ireland 2040 plan to add an extra million people here - where will they live, how will they live, how will they make a living?

People are generally going to go where they can get the best opportunity for employment which is usually in urban areas. How can a government encourage people to stay in or move to a rural area if there are little to no employment opportunities that meet their expectations.

GAA Beo

Fine Gael put the nail in the coffin of Rural Ireland but all parties must share the blame as they let it happen and offered no alternative. Fine Gael still have support in rural Ireland also, I can't understand it but the alternatives thus far are grim in fairness.

GAA Beo

DontThankMe wrote: »

People are generally going to go where they can get the best opportunity for employment which is usually in urban areas. How can a government encourage people to stay in or move to a rural area if there are little to no employment opportunities that meet their expectations.

There should be opportunities outside Cork, Greater Dublin and Galway though. In most cases there isn't.

JupiterKid

Its two sides of the same coin.

A rural Ireland in decline. A Dublin and its environs losing its quality of living due to a severe housing crisis.

dxhound2005

JupiterKid wrote: »

Its two sides of the same coin.

A rural Ireland in decline. A Dublin and its environs losing its quality of living due to a severe housing crisis.

Whatever the nature of the decline it has not stopped the population increasing in rural Ireland. Is it a decline in life expectancy, a decline in employment, a decline in living standards or something else?

GAA Beo

JupiterKid wrote: »

Its two sides of the same coin.

A rural Ireland in decline. A Dublin and its environs losing its quality of living due to a severe housing crisis.

My current situation is unemployed University graduate in my home county. No opportunities locally and I have tried. Can't afford to go to Dublin now due to housing crisis /rental market and cost of living. It's looking like I will try Belfast in the next few months. It's no Dublin job wise but the alternative is sit on the dole or emigrate.

GoneHome

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland is changing beyond all recognition.

Rural Ireland is slowly dying

Outside of the commuter belts of Dublin and Cork and the regional cities of Galway, Limerick and Waterford, rural Ireland is now in serious trouble. Analysis of census figures of smaller rural towns makes for unsettling reading.

Can you give us some back up data on this, I live in a rural area in County Limerick, there are three villages withing 3 to 4 miles of me in different directions, all are holding their own in terms of employment/schools/GAA clubs/village shop/pubs, alot of new houses being built again after it became non-existent during the down-turn in the economy, the majority of the young people who emigrated during that time have now returned.

kneemos

GoneHome wrote: »

Can you give us some back up data on this, I live in a rural area in County Limerick, there are three villages withing 3 to 4 miles of me in different directions, all are holding their own in terms of employment/schools/GAA clubs/village shop/pubs, alot of new houses being built again after it became non-existent during the down-turn in the economy, the majority of the young people who emigrated during that time have now returned.

I think he's one of those that think nothing exists outside the M50.

Tell me how

30% of the population resides within 1.3% of the land area.
I largely agree with the sentiment of the OP but I don't know how it is going to change. That 30% of the population is demanding attention to their needs.

Very frustrating to see an airport like Shannon underutilised and a 2nd runway going in to Dublin while people travel from the west to Dublin to access a lot of flights. It's also frustrating to see towns/villages with empty houses and commercial/industrial units while there is a housing crisis in Dublin.

GAA Beo

You mention GAA, I could see Dublin winning 10 in a row. People will probably get fed up and just watch club football! Most counties haven't a hope anyway.

Tuco88

Sardonicat wrote: »

Why? Do you think people who don't go to pubs are all at home swigging vino alone?

They are not the pub culture?

Id take the point is mostly towards rural folk who enjoy a few drinks and the social scene of it. Its clearly suffering a big hit with the driving and decline in population and other factors.

To answer the question yes.ðŸ˜

And you dont have to drink to be in the pub culture.

4068ac1elhodqr

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The population increased by about a million over a 20 year period recently. Where do they live, how do they live, how do they make a living?

And more importantly, what about the next +1 million (and what are they going to actually do) due between now and 2050. Worth noting that even by 2030 automation may take away nearly half of all current job roles.

By 2050 ai-robotics will likely overtake humans for all, every and any task you can think of. Guess there's always Mars, plenty of space up there.

orourkeda1977

Sardonicat wrote: »

Why? Do you think people who don't go to pubs are all at home swigging vino alone?

Yes. Theyre also **** and sobbing whilst curled up in the foetal position in the corner having just finished a doner kebab

GoneHome

Tuco88 wrote: »

They are not the pub culture?

Id take the point is mostly towards rural folk who enjoy a few drinks and the social scene of it. Its clearly suffering a big hit with the driving and decline in population and other factors.

To answer the question yes.ðŸ˜

And you dont have to drink to be in the pub culture.

One of the local pubs to me in a rural village is run by a couple in their 50s and their son of about 25, I was there a few times over Christmas and the place was packed every night, why? because while the wife and son serve the bar the husband is on hand to drive people home at whatever time they so wish. They do the same every night of the week and that's why they're getting the people in, no such thing as a taxi in the area, if more rural pubs were to offer the same service I'm sure they too would reep the benefits. Granted they only open at 5 p.m. during week and then all day Saturday and Sunday but that too makes sense as why would they bother opening at 10.30 a.m. on a weekday to have maybe one alcoholic old lad as their only customer for the day!

rainbowtrout

JupiterKid wrote: »

Oh yes, there IS the Ireland 2040 plan to add an extra million people here - where will they live, how will they live, how will they make a living?

More people means more houses, an increase in the use of services in an area such as schools and shops. If those shops have an increase of customers they can expand and take on more employees.

Not everyone will choose to live/work in Dublin.

ligerdub wrote: »

To be fair housing is in an emergency situation in this country now. Everything is geared towards Dublin, aimed at large multinationals based in Dublin, where there is a severe gridlock every working day and where it's pretty much at an unaffordable cost of living. Dublin has become a poor place to live and work.

There is a housing emergency in Dublin. Everywhere else is largely doing fine.
If the government expect nearly a third of the population to live in Dublin, then they will have to consider plans for high density housing/ high rise apartments blocks and forget about the low rise city skyline.

I live in Roscommon and there were houses built in my town during the boom and the billboards were advertising them as perfect for commuting to Dublin.... 110 miles away.

GAA Beo wrote: »

My current situation is unemployed University graduate in my home county. No opportunities locally and I have tried. Can't afford to go to Dublin now due to housing crisis /rental market and cost of living. It's looking like I will try Belfast in the next few months. It's no Dublin job wise but the alternative is sit on the dole or emigrate.

So nothing in your home county, so Dublin is the only alternative? Why not try Galway, Cork, Limerick or Waterford?

marno21

Most of the problems Ireland has are self inflicted. There are reasonably straight forward solutions yet there seems to be no will to implement them. The "housing crisis" is actually a multi faceted issue that can't be simplified down into one single "crisis", nor is there one solution to all the elements of it

Dublin and the other cities badly need appropriate housing for the needs of the people looking for it. Young professionals do not all need to live in 3/4 bedroom houses with gardens and parking spaces. There is a massive dearth of 6/8 storey apartment buildings in central locations with decent public transport access. The city doesn't need Manhattan/Singapore style skyscrapers but appropriate density rolled out to sufficient scale. The current policies in this regard are horrendously outdated and need rethinking. There needs to be appropriate corridors for reasonably high density development developed too with public transport solutions such as Metrolink.

Rural Ireland is also suffering from self inflicted problems. Villages and towns are going to have issues if most of the residents are living in isolated houses or ribbon developments on approach roads and being totally dependent on cars. Towns especially in this regard then have little to attract these people in their centres and instead people are driving to out of town retail parks and Lidl/Aldi etc

The inter regional road network needs upgrading on a massive scale. Our economy has transformed over the past 30 years however bar a short period between 2000 and 2010 our road network is still massively outdated. Average speeds of 60-70km/h on most national roads bar the motorways to Dublin are going to causes problems. The proposed upgrades in the National Development Plan and ones that didn't make the cut need to be prioritised as a matter of urgency

Graces7

marno21 wrote: »

Most of the problems Ireland has are self inflicted. There are reasonably straight forward solutions yet there seems to be no will to implement them. The "housing crisis" is actually a multi faceted issue that can't be simplified down into one single "crisis", nor is there one solution to all the elements of it



Rural Ireland is also suffering from self inflicted problems. Villages and towns are going to have issues if most of the residents are living in isolated houses or ribbon developments on approach roads and being totally dependent on cars. Towns especially in this regard then have little to attract these people in their centres and instead people are driving to out of town retail parks and Lidl/Aldi etc

You are seeing the changes as problems, rather than as developments and changes. Rural folk have always been dependent on eg cars. Comes with a scattered population. And have always tended to isolation as we see it now.

Change is inevitable and it is how we adapt to it.

I live deep rural . in fact on a small island, and the nearest mainland village has lost its post office, through lack of use.
Has a thriving school and a wonderfully active Community Centre
some here use a smaller shop locally, some a village at some distance that thrives as it serves a vast rural area. I prefer Aldi and LIDL , for price and range.

You need to see it from a different angle. People here seek the isolation and quietude we have. Not big roads coming in, not becoming like any other town.

Few villages or towns have the social activities they had 50 years ago for many reasosn. That time has passed

Del.Monte

kneemos wrote: »

Is there a housing crisis in rural Ireland?

You're obviously not looking for somewhere to buy or rent?

Tell me how

GoneHome wrote: »

One of the local pubs to me in a rural village is run by a couple in their 50s and their son of about 25, I was there a few times over Christmas and the place was packed every night, why? because while the wife and son serve the bar the husband is on hand to drive people home at whatever time they so wish. They do the same every night of the week and that's why they're getting the people in, no such thing as a taxi in the area, if more rural pubs were to offer the same service I'm sure they too would reep the benefits. Granted they only open at 5 p.m. during week and then all day Saturday and Sunday but that too makes sense as why would they bother opening at 10.30 a.m. on a weekday to have maybe one alcoholic old lad as their only customer for the day!

I would suggest that the 'Why' has much more to do with the time of year than an onsite taxi service.

Don't know if you yourself were only home for Christmas. If so, ask a friend or family what is it like in a few weeks. January is quiet to be fair, but after that.

Also, suggesting other pubs should offer the same service is not entirely unreasonable. Nor is it straightforward. It needs a vehicle, and essentially another staff resource.

awec

Tell me how wrote: »

I would suggest that the 'Why' has much more to do with the time of year than an onsite taxi service.

Don't know if you yourself were only home for Christmas. If so, ask a friend or family what is it like in a few weeks. January is quiet to be fair, but after that.

Also, suggesting other pubs should offer the same service is not entirely unreasonable. Nor is it straightforward. It needs a vehicle, and essentially another staff resource.

It’s not straight forward. I bet the landlord in question does not have the appropriate insurance or license to be operating as a taxi.

You can’t just buy a car and then start giving people lifts.

El_Bee

Graces7 wrote: »

I live deep rural . in fact on a small island, and the nearest mainland village has lost its post office, through lack of use.
Has a thriving school and a wonderfully active Community Centre
some here use a smaller shop locally, some a village at some distance that thrives as it serves a vast rural area. I prefer Aldi and LIDL , for price and range.

You need to see it from a different angle. People here seek the isolation and quietude we have. Not big roads coming in, not becoming like any other town.

Few villages or towns have the social activities they had 50 years ago for many reasosn. That time has passed

Honestly that sounds like heaven to me, what are the employment options like in areas like these?

The_Kew_Tour

The problem is no alternatives to Government in this country

Who wants a backwards living in the past group like Sinn Fein? FF?, everyone remembers their time. Labour, oh dear! and then you are given the Liberal lads who have no more clue then 3 yo child

Berserker

JupiterKid wrote: »

The Church is all but dead.

Which church are you talking about? Certain churches are growing in Ireland. 78% of people in Ireland categorised themselves are RC in the last census. I would say that the position of the RCC in Ireland has changed but I wouldn't say that it's dead. 78% is still a very healthy majority.

JupiterKid wrote: »

Pub culture is dying out.

In rural Ireland that may be the case. Not so much in the rest of the country. It has changed over the decade or so, with people drinking more at home and less when they go to the pub but people still frequent pubs. On the flips side, people are far more likely to go to a pub for food now than they did twenty years ago.

JupiterKid wrote: »

The GAA is holding up, thankfully.

Why thankfully? If they GAA did die and rugby, a far more inclusive sport, took over, what loss would that be?

JupiterKid wrote: »

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

They do care about the disadvantaged. Our welfare system is one of the most generous in the world, for starters. As for career politicians, rural Ireland provides us with the creme de la creme on the front. If rural Ireland wants a change in attitude on the political front, I think rural Ireland needs to change the way it behaves first. As for government, we have a horrible imbalance to the left. You can have centre left FF/FG or hard left, who have been shown to be even worse than the centre left.

OldRio

El_Bee wrote: »

Honestly that sounds like heaven to me, what are the employment options like in areas like these?

I live in Rural Leitrim. It's mainly small farms and villages in the locality. There is very little employment locally. Most youngsters move away to the Cities or emigrate. The old are dying off.

As an example the Senior Citizens Christmas Party 5 years ago had 78 attending. This year just 48.

lawred2

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland is changing beyond all recognition.

Rural Ireland is slowly dying - this country is rapidly urbanising, particularly in and around Dublin - our City State (I have co-authored a number of papers on regional and urban trends in Ireland with another due out in May next).

Outside of the commuter belts of Dublin and Cork and the regional cities of Galway, Limerick and Waterford, rural Ireland is now in serious trouble. Analysis of census figures of smaller rural towns makes for unsettling reading.

Some coastal towns and a couple of tourist spots are holding up but so much of rural Ireland is in a very sad state of irreversible decline.

The Church is all but dead.

Local services are being closed down.

Pub culture is dying out.

The GAA is holding up, thankfully.

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

and?

things change

Tell me how

Berserker wrote: »

Why thankfully? If they GAA did die and rugby, a far more inclusive organisation and sport, took over, what loss would that be?

Please explain.

Uncharted

awec wrote: »

You can’t just buy a car and then start giving people lifts.

Not true. So long as no payment changes hands,it's legit.

Tell me how

lawred2 wrote: »

and?

things change

Of course things change.

But change isn't always naturally for the betterment of society. One of the roles of government is to develop strategy so that the change which will come in the future is the most advantageous for as many as possible.

Tell me how

Uncharted wrote: »

Not true. So long as no payment changes hands,it's legit.

You may have issues with insurance should there some form of a claim. Such as someone tripping when getting out of the car/bus. In fact, it is possible that a claim would also be made against the pub insurance, not just the vehicle.

Unfortunate, I know, but these things must be considered.

Tell me how

Del.Monte wrote: »

You're obviously not looking for somewhere to buy or rent?

Can you please give a rural location where you have found it is difficult to buy or rent.

3DataModem

JupiterKid wrote: »

The Church is all but dead.

Pub culture is dying out.

Good to see there are upsides.

lawred2

Tell me how wrote: »

Of course things change.

But change isn't always naturally for the betterment of society. One of the roles of government is to develop strategy so that the change which will come in the future is the most advantageous for as many as possible.

grand - what do you propose?

particularly with regards to the pub and the church

especially given that the majority of society welcomes such changes

dotsman

JupiterKid wrote: »

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

"The current shower in Government"? Don't you mean "pretty much every TD that has ever sat in Dail Eireann"? Irish politics does not appear to attract those with a vision & strategy and only utterly selfish career politicians need apply.

Berserker

Tell me how wrote: »

Please explain.

A child from any religious or political background can play rugby. The same cannot be said for GAA. A child who wants to play GAA, rugby and hockey, is still not allowed to do so by the GAA in 2018/19. The GAA club members will make attending training sessions and games for others sports as difficult as possible for the youngster. I thought this nonsense died out years ago but it's still going on.

lawred2

Berserker wrote: »

A child from any religious or political background can play rugby. The same cannot be said for GAA. A child who wants to play GAA, rugby and hockey, is still not allowed to do so by the GAA in 2018/19. The GAA club members will make attending training sessions and games for others sports as difficult as possible for the youngster. I thought this nonsense died out years ago but it's still going on.

?

ye what?

I can tell you with absolute certainty that this is NOT the case where I live