No vision for a rapidly changing Ireland

markpb

JupiterKid wrote: »

Rural Ireland is slowly dying - this country is rapidly urbanising, particularly in and around Dublin - our City State (I have co-authored a number of papers on regional and urban trends in Ireland with another due out in May next).

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

I don't know why you're in such a rush to blame the government, it undermines the rest of your post and makes you look like you're using change to bash the government. The move away from rural living to urban living isn't just happening in Ireland, it's happening in almost every developed country in the world. It's as avoidable as the wind. There's an interactive diagram that you can plan with if you'd like: https://ourworldindata.org/urbanization.

Berserker

lawred2 wrote: »

I can tell you with absolute certainty that this is NOT the case where I live

Woman who sits beside me in work is giving out yards about it. Her son seems to be a talented youngster, playing multiple sports because he loves them all and the antics of the local GAA bods is turning him off sports completely. One of the GAA trainers actually referred to rugby and hockey as "foreign sports" to her at the weekend when she had a go at him. It's 2019 ffs. Thought these knuckle draggers were a thing of the past. She is actually thinking of pursuing this and lodging a complaint.

dotsman

3DataModem wrote: »

Good to see there are upsides.

lawred2 wrote: »

grand - what do you propose?

particularly with regards to the pub and the church

especially given that the majority of society welcomes such changes

Can you tell me what's so great about the death of our pub culture? And since when does the majority of society welcome this?

rainbowtrout

Berserker wrote: »

A child from any religious or political background can play rugby. The same cannot be said for GAA. A child who wants to play GAA, rugby and hockey, is still not allowed to do so by the GAA in 2018/19. The GAA club members will make attending training sessions and games for others sports as difficult as possible for the youngster. I thought this nonsense died out years ago but it's still going on.

I teach in Roscommon and almost all the students on the school rugby team also play GAA and a good few play soccer as well.

OldRio

Berserker wrote: »

A child from any religious or political background can play rugby. The same cannot be said for GAA. A child who wants to play GAA, rugby and hockey, is still not allowed to do so by the GAA in 2018/19. The GAA club members will make attending training sessions and games for others sports as difficult as possible for the youngster. I thought this nonsense died out years ago but it's still going on.

.

As an ex Rugby player I find your anti GAA bias embarrassing. The time and effort put into this parish by the GAA is outstanding. Children playing sport from an early age. What's not to like?
You obviously have an agenda.

Berserker

OldRio wrote: »

You obviously have an agenda.

I do. I want children to be active and play whatever sport they like, when they like. Talented youngsters, a twelve year old in this case, shouldn't be forced to chose to play GAA over another sport.

MrMusician18

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland is changing beyond all recognition.

Rural Ireland is slowly dying - this country is rapidly urbanising, particularly in and around Dublin - our City State (I have co-authored a number of papers on regional and urban trends in Ireland with another due out in May next).

Outside of the commuter belts of Dublin and Cork and the regional cities of Galway, Limerick and Waterford, rural Ireland is now in serious trouble. Analysis of census figures of smaller rural towns makes for unsettling reading.

Some coastal towns and a couple of tourist spots are holding up but so much of rural Ireland is in a very sad state of irreversible decline.

The Church is all but dead.

Local services are being closed down.

Pub culture is dying out.

The GAA is holding up, thankfully.

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

The population in rural Ireland is rising.

OldRio

Berserker wrote: »

I do. I want children to be active and play whatever sport they like, when they like. Talented youngsters, a twelve year old in this case, shouldn't be forced to chose to play GAA over another sport.

You're using one example to condemn an entire organisation?
Like I said 'agenda'
You've managed to derail this thread because of your agenda. Leave you to it.

road_high

GAA Beo wrote: »

My current situation is unemployed University graduate in my home county. No opportunities locally and I have tried. Can't afford to go to Dublin now due to housing crisis /rental market and cost of living. It's looking like I will try Belfast in the next few months. It's no Dublin job wise but the alternative is sit on the dole or emigrate.

Reasonable rents in the commuter towns around about, rent a room near a train station. If you're a college graduate, depending on what you studied and qualified in you should start on an ok salary, certainly enough to live on.

CosmicFool

Berserker wrote: »

Which church are you talking about? Certain churches are growing in Ireland. 78% of people in Ireland categorised themselves are RC in the last census. I would say that the position of the RCC in Ireland has changed but I wouldn't say that it's dead. 78% is still a very healthy majority.



In rural Ireland that may be the case. Not so much in the rest of the country. It has changed over the decade or so, with people drinking more at home and less when they go to the pub but people still frequent pubs. On the flips side, people are far more likely to go to a pub for food now than they did twenty years ago.



Why thankfully? If they GAA did die and rugby, a far more inclusive sport, took over, what loss would that be?



They do care about the disadvantaged. Our welfare system is one of the most generous in the world, for starters. As for career politicians, rural Ireland provides us with the creme de la creme on the front. If rural Ireland wants a change in attitude on the political front, I think rural Ireland needs to change the way it behaves first. As for government, we have a horrible imbalance to the left. You can have centre left FF/FG or hard left, who have been shown to be even worse than the centre left.

Yes 78% are RC but how many of those 78% practice it? A lot of family only baptize their children because they'll need it for when they go to school. How many go to church? I'd reckon less than half of the 78% actually go to church regularly.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Berserker wrote: »

I do. I want children to be active and play whatever sport they like, when they like. Talented youngsters, a twelve year old in this case, shouldn't be forced to chose to play GAA over another sport.

3 of mine play hurling, camogie, football, soccer, basketball, rugby, Taekwando, swimming, golf etc etc with local teams. The only proviso from the GAA, and indeed all the rest, is that they try to show for the local matches even if they can't always make training.


At County level, there is more pressure but it's exactly the same pressure from GAA, soccer, basketball or rugby.

SSr0

awec wrote: »

It’s not straight forward. I bet the landlord in question does not have the appropriate insurance or license to be operating as a taxi.

You can’t just buy a car and then start giving people lifts.

You can if you're not charging people for the lift.

Berserker

OldRio wrote: »

You're using one example to condemn an entire organisation? Like I said 'agenda' You've managed to derail this thread because of your agenda. Leave you to it.

No I haven't. I made a valid point and I can think of other examples. I haven't derailed the thread. This is the last post I'll be making on the subject and plenty of other discussion points are active on the thread.

CosmicFool wrote: »

Yes 78% are RC but how many of those 78% practice it? A lot of family only baptize their children because they'll need it for when they go to school. How many go to church? I'd reckon less than half of the 78% actually go to church regularly.

They don't just baptise them. Communions and confirmations are still big events. A huge number of people still get married in RC churches. The role of the RCC has changed in Ireland. People don't take moral guidance from but you can't say that it's dead.

wakka12

Sardonicat wrote: »

I don't see the decline of pub 'culture' as a loss TBH.

When its not replaced by anything, then its a loss to a community. Not everyone who goes to pubs gets so drunk that theyre loud and aggressive, lots of people can drink sensibly and share good times with friends in pubs

Same with church, I know elderly people who dont even belive in god but go to mass just to get out for a while and use it more as social outlet to chat with local people. Again its not being replaced by anything either.

They are both symptoms of the gradual erosion of any visible community outside of cities, and its happening throughout the world not just in ireland

Graces7

El_Bee wrote: »

Honestly that sounds like heaven to me, what are the employment options like in areas like these?

I honestly have no idea; sorry. I am nearly 80; lived in rural Ireland nearly 20 years and love it for the qualities it has of peace and being away from towns while having access to a range of facilities.

When I came here, they apologised for the "lack of facilities "; as I told them I do not want facilities... everything needful is within reach

Graces7

Tell me how wrote: »

I would suggest that the 'Why' has much more to do with the time of year than an onsite taxi service.

Don't know if you yourself were only home for Christmas. If so, ask a friend or family what is it like in a few weeks. January is quiet to be fair, but after that.

Also, suggesting other pubs should offer the same service is not entirely unreasonable. Nor is it straightforward. It needs a vehicle, and essentially another staff resource.

rural pubs are invariably crowded. Until midnight often .. whatever the month

Sardonicat

What's stopping people from replacing the pub? Can they not organise regular get togethers off their own batt? Book clubs, card drives, film nights, coffee mornings or plain old knees up in their homes.

Definitely think public transport should be a whole lot better than it is to ease social isolation but why has there always been such a reliance on the pub to be the hub of social contact? The fact that we even have a pub culture tells us something about our relationship with alcohol in this country and it's not about 'community '

Graces7

awec wrote: »

It’s not straight forward. I bet the landlord in question does not have the appropriate insurance or license to be operating as a taxi.

You can’t just buy a car and then start giving people lifts.

Why not if he is not charging for it? Just giving neighbours a lift home so they can drink and not drive.. Good man! And good business man!

Graces7

Tell me how wrote: »

Can you please give a rural location where you have found it is difficult to buy or rent.

Kerry; Connemara. Mayo..

House owners can earn more with less work by summer rentals, and leaving houses empty all winter than by renting year long with far more regulations etc.

If you look at the holiday rental ads you will see this.

Finding anywhere affordable is a huge issue. Trawl through any of the daft rural places. lol.. sorry! That sounds dreadful! I meant go to daft.ie and look at rentals in these counties

Graces7

Tell me how wrote: »

Of course things change.

But change isn't always naturally for the betterment of society. One of the roles of government is to develop strategy so that the change which will come in the future is the most advantageous for as many as possible.

What does that mean please? people live where they choose and how they choose. Communities and areas change when folk move, leave, marry etc, and there is nothing any govt can or should do to affect that natural evolution.

Many rural areas are now ruined as communities by the tourist industry. Dead all winter. But people have to earn, to live.

Sardonicat

Graces7 wrote: »

Tell me how wrote: »

Can you please give a rural location where you have found it is difficult to buy or rent.

Kerry; Connemara. Mayo..

House owners can earn more with less work by summer rentals, and leaving houses empty all winter than by renting year long with far more regulations etc.

If you look at the holiday rental ads you will see this.

Finding anywhere affordable is a huge issue. Trawl through any of the daft rural places.

And try finding an affordable rental on 'average" wage in Tralee or Killarney. Just dumps, anywhere half decent is at rip off rents.

Graces7

wakka12 wrote: »

When its not replaced by anything, then its a loss to a community. Not everyone who goes to pubs gets so drunk that theyre loud and aggressive, lots of people can drink sensibly and share good times with friends in pubs

Same with church, I know elderly people who dont even belive in god but go to mass just to get out for a while and use it more as social outlet to chat with local people. Again its not being replaced by anything either.

They are both symptoms of the gradual erosion of any visible community outside of cities, and its happening throughout the world not just in ireland

Ah now. Out here you will maybe not see real community ..... no great outward show,,, but community as it is lived in reality... we have it in abundance. Not functions or clubs; mutual caring that is the true heart of community. Neighbours quietly helping each other.

How it used to be way back .

FishOnABike

Berserker wrote: »

A child from any religious or political background can play rugby. The same cannot be said for GAA. A child who wants to play GAA, rugby and hockey, is still not allowed to do so by the GAA in 2018/19. The GAA club members will make attending training sessions and games for others sports as difficult as possible for the youngster. I thought this nonsense died out years ago but it's still going on.

That may be more driven by individual personality in that club. Where I'm living the local GAA and rugby clubs training is scheduled so children can go to both, some coaches are involved in both. This is definitely the case at underage level, as children get older they probably need to concentrate on one or the other.

blanch152

Globally, rural life is dying. Why the OP thinks it should be different for Ireland is puzzling.

There are good reasons why we are seeing increased urbanisation. The world has two choices - depopulation or living sustainably in cities.

It is only by reducing world population by 50% that we can make rural life sustainable again.

Most things, from healthcare to broadband, from postal services to driving, from banks to garda stations, cost more and are less environmentally sustainable in a rural population.

randd1

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland is changing beyond all recognition.

Rural Ireland is slowly dying - this country is rapidly urbanising, particularly in and around Dublin - our City State (I have co-authored a number of papers on regional and urban trends in Ireland with another due out in May next).

Outside of the commuter belts of Dublin and Cork and the regional cities of Galway, Limerick and Waterford, rural Ireland is now in serious trouble. Analysis of census figures of smaller rural towns makes for unsettling reading.

Some coastal towns and a couple of tourist spots are holding up but so much of rural Ireland is in a very sad state of irreversible decline.

The Church is all but dead.

Local services are being closed down.

Pub culture is dying out.

The GAA is holding up, thankfully.

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

Simply get developers to move away from the towns.

I can only speak for Kilkenny as I know it best, but there at least decent sized 10 villages and three small towns within 15 minutes drive of Kilkenny.

Now instead of just adding more housing estates in Kilkenny, why not say place 200 houses in the villages and 500 houses in the small towns?

That number of houses in a village could have huge effects for the local economy. Pubs, shops, local tradespeople would all benefit. There may even be new business created due to deceased costs. Not to mention cheaper houses.

As for the local schools, well instead of closing they get new pupils. And it takes the pressure off of having schools in towns. They'll have to expand some schools, but the advantage of rural schools is that 9 out 10 of them have the space to expand.

And if done properly, wouldn't overly affect the environment of the area either.

Sleepy

Banning ribbon development and unnecessary one-off developments would do a lot for rural Ireland but the reality is that most young couples don't want an old 100sqm house in the village: they want the 300sqm McMansion with stand-alone garage on half an acre or more a 15 minute drive from the village.

Was up in Mayo over the Christmas and the amount of abandoned / unoccupied housing visible as you drive through the towns and villages is staggering (as is the amount of Celtic tiger McMansions along the roads outside them).

Realistically though, what can government do to promote rural living in Ireland? It's already far cheaper to live rurally than in urban areas (despite it costing far more to provide rural dwellers with services). We can't compete in Manufacturing or any other low-skilled, labour intensive industry that would have been the lifeblood of these villages a century ago. High value services companies want (need?) to be based in the urban areas where the talent pool for their services exist. Decentralisation of Public Sector work while a great idea in theory was an absolute disaster in implementation and will only ever be seen as an opportunity to gouge the exchequer by the PS unions when, in reality, it should offer us a means of reducing public expenditure (via lower salaries required for staff with cheaper housing / cost-of-living in rural areas).

What options are left? Throw money at private investors to create jobs in rural areas? Not sure subsidising private enterprise is the best use of public money myself... and there's been limited success with this policy in the past.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Sleepy wrote: »

Banning ribbon development and unnecessary one-off developments would do a lot for rural Ireland but the reality is that most young couples don't want an old 100sqm house in the village: they want the 300sqm McMansion with stand-alone garage on half an acre or more a 15 minute drive from the village.

The average farm size in Ireland is 90 acres so every 90 acres, on average, is going to have a house on it. And a second house for the next generation of farmer. It's pretty pointless living 5 miles from the farm and driving back and forth 2 or 3 times a night with cows calving so it's much more time and energy efficient to have 2 houses on the farm.

Was up in Mayo over the Christmas and the amount of abandoned / unoccupied housing visible as you drive through the towns and villages is staggering (as is the amount of Celtic tiger McMansions along the roads outside them).

Those McMansions, as you term them, are generally built and owner by those from outside the area. Indeed, it was a fun game we played while driving around the area and easily spotting those that feel they have to make a 'statement' about their worth. The vast majority of local owner houses would be in the 1,500 to 1,700 sqf range while the recently arrived would be 2,000sqf+ range.

Realistically though, what can government do to promote rural living in Ireland? It's already far cheaper to live rurally than in urban areas (despite it costing far more to provide rural dwellers with services).

How is it costing more to supply rural dwellers with services? We built, supply and operate our own water system. We supply right-of-way for fairly nominal payments to allow wayleave for water and electricity services to acces urban customers who don't want those services to be provided anywhere near them. Just taking Dublin as an example, how near to the city are the nearest generating plants? How many wind turbines to provide their green energy demands are anywhere near the demand?[/QUOTE]

We can't compete in Manufacturing or any other low-skilled, labour intensive industry that would have been the lifeblood of these villages a century ago. High value services companies want (need?) to be based in the urban areas where the talent pool for their services exist.

A locally owned and based multinational manufacturing company recently advertised for new recruits, 100 over the next 12 months, to cater for demand. Despite being rural based a good percentage of that companys workforce is urban based. Low skilled, labour intensive? LOL, the good percentage of the new workforce, similar to the existing workforce, will be skilled operatives, computer programmers, management etc etc, not in the perceived lower echelons of the workforce.

Decentralisation of Public Sector work while a great idea in theory was an absolute disaster in implementation and will only ever be seen as an opportunity to gouge the exchequer by the PS unions when, in reality, it should offer us a means of reducing public expenditure (via lower salaries required for staff with cheaper housing / cost-of-living in rural areas).

What options are left? Throw money at private investors to create jobs in rural areas? Not sure subsidising private enterprise is the best use of public money myself... and there's been limited success with this policy in the past.

So it's fine to provide subsidised jobs in urban areas but not rural areas? Riiiight:rolleyes:

Tell me how

Berserker wrote: »

A child from any religious or political background can play rugby. The same cannot be said for GAA. A child who wants to play GAA, rugby and hockey, is still not allowed to do so by the GAA in 2018/19. The GAA club members will make attending training sessions and games for others sports as difficult as possible for the youngster. I thought this nonsense died out years ago but it's still going on.

I know others have commented on this but it needs to be repeated.

This is categorically untrue. There is zero real world evidence of this being in any way common practice. There most definitely will be cases where events overlap but to suggest that it is intentional widespread practice is a lie.

suicide_circus

Increased urbanisation and the death of the rural village is not an irish problem. Same all over the world. Dystopian megacities here we come!

Tell me how

blanch152 wrote: »

Globally, rural life is dying. Why the OP thinks it should be different for Ireland is puzzling.

There are good reasons why we are seeing increased urbanisation. The world has two choices - depopulation or living sustainably in cities.

It is only by reducing world population by 50% that we can make rural life sustainable again.

Most things, from healthcare to broadband, from postal services to driving, from banks to garda stations, cost more and are less environmentally sustainable in a rural population.

This is a topic about Ireland, so the global population size is largely irrelevant.

In the middle of the 19th century the population was equal to what we had now and much more dispersed. And obviously, communities were much more sustainable and contained back then. However, today's society still doesn't mean that we abandon everywhere outside of one major population centre and may 3-5 smaller centres around the country.

What do you suggest, we abandon areas outside of cities entirely, we do not maintain roads or expect hedgerows to be maintained? We do not expect farmers to live locally? In theory, you would be correct needing services in a smaller area would be more efficient. But what do we so, move everyone to a single city location and ignore the rest of the country?
This needs to be more than a bean counting exercise.

Just to clarify, I am not suggesting that everyone gets a garda station, hospital and entertainment venue within 3km of their front door.

Graces7

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland is changing beyond all recognition.

Rural Ireland is slowly dying - this country is rapidly urbanising, particularly in and around Dublin - our City State (I have co-authored a number of papers on regional and urban trends in Ireland with another due out in May next).

Outside of the commuter belts of Dublin and Cork and the regional cities of Galway, Limerick and Waterford, rural Ireland is now in serious trouble. Analysis of census figures of smaller rural towns makes for unsettling reading.

Some coastal towns and a couple of tourist spots are holding up but so much of rural Ireland is in a very sad state of irreversible decline.

The Church is all but dead.

Local services are being closed down.

Pub culture is dying out.

The GAA is holding up, thankfully.

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

OP you see things far from the way they are. Dark and dismal... Rural life has changed radically. We who dwell rural do not live as we did decades ago. We do not seek the same facilities. If we did they would be there; we are not helpless.

Your last para is bizarre. It really is. So much of what we need we can and do sort ourselves. A vision? Why?

I live near a small village that has a vibrant life and a quiet care for its old folk. No Post office now; because folk are so mobile it was being underused. Our fault in fact. An excellent Community Centre and above all folk who quietly care for each other. Which is what community is about.

Tell me how

3DataModem wrote: »

Good to see there are upsides.

The pub culture the OP speaks of is more than just the 'alcohol intake' element.
It is the social interaction and support structures which came from frequently meeting friends and neighbours.
This is not happening in a different location now that it is happening less in a pub and that is not entirely positive.

Tell me how

Graces7 wrote: »

OP you see things far from the way they are. Dark and dismal... Rural life has changed radically. We who dwell rural do not live as we did decades ago. We do not seek the same facilities. If we did they would be there; we are not helpless.

Your last para is bizarre. It really is. So much of what we need we can and do sort ourselves. A vision? Why?

I live near a small village that has a vibrant life and a quiet care for its old folk. No Post office now; because folk are so mobile it was being underused. Our fault in fact. An excellent Community Centre and above all folk who quietly care for each other. Which is what community is about.

What is the trend in attendance numbers in the local schools? How many 20-60 year olds are working locally?
How is the GAA club faring or has it had to amalgamate with another club to make up the numbers?

There is more to community than just serving the needs of the older generation.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Pub culture is dying out because i) young people have more more varied interests now in areas such as diet and fitness, travel etc, than my generation had (left school in 2000), and ii) because seeing the damage drink has caused in some families, younger people have decided to not follow blindly down the same path. Some vintners also don't help themselves; things like having clean bathrooms are important to people nowadays. I can't remember the last time I was in a rural pub that had soap, running water and a working handdryer / hand towels. Its a tiny detail, but like it or not it puts people off.

The church is dying out largely because a lot of its views conflict with the liberal views of many young people today, and rather than look within itself and assess opportunities to meet that challenege, it buries its head in the sand and if anything becomes even more entrenched in its views. If it continues down this path, it may drive itself to complete irrelevance in modern societies in the next 50 years (in my opinion).

I don't see what either of these has to do with the government. If anything, the governments minimum unit pricing and associated legislation is thinly veiled protectionism of pubs - they are trying to help.

Tell me how

Sleepy wrote: »

Banning ribbon development and unnecessary one-off developments would do a lot for rural Ireland but the reality is that most young couples don't want an old 100sqm house in the village: they want the 300sqm McMansion with stand-alone garage on half an acre or more a 15 minute drive from the village.

Was up in Mayo over the Christmas and the amount of abandoned / unoccupied housing visible as you drive through the towns and villages is staggering (as is the amount of Celtic tiger McMansions along the roads outside them).

Realistically though, what can government do to promote rural living in Ireland? It's already far cheaper to live rurally than in urban areas (despite it costing far more to provide rural dwellers with services). We can't compete in Manufacturing or any other low-skilled, labour intensive industry that would have been the lifeblood of these villages a century ago. High value services companies want (need?) to be based in the urban areas where the talent pool for their services exist. Decentralisation of Public Sector work while a great idea in theory was an absolute disaster in implementation and will only ever be seen as an opportunity to gouge the exchequer by the PS unions when, in reality, it should offer us a means of reducing public expenditure (via lower salaries required for staff with cheaper housing / cost-of-living in rural areas).

What options are left? Throw money at private investors to create jobs in rural areas? Not sure subsidising private enterprise is the best use of public money myself... and there's been limited success with this policy in the past.

I do feel the government could encourage investment in local areas. They could locate governmental offices there if possible (I'm aware of the decentralisation fiasco) but try putting offices there with new staff as appropriate as opposed to trying to move those that do not want to be moved.
The Athenry data centre thing was a very tough blow for the idea of rural development. I think the government should have been more proactive in ensuring it went ahead.

I do agree to some degree on ribbon development. I would like to see something done to encourage purchase of 2nd hand homes rather than new builds.

Jumbo2018

Berserker wrote: »

Woman who sits beside me in work is giving out yards about it. Her son seems to be a talented youngster, playing multiple sports because he loves them all and the antics of the local GAA bods is turning him off sports completely. One of the GAA trainers actually referred to rugby and hockey as "foreign sports" to her at the weekend when she had a go at him. It's 2019 ffs. Thought these knuckle draggers were a thing of the past. She is actually thinking of pursuing this and lodging a complaint.

Well technically they are foreign sports seeing as they didn't originate in ireland. Not really sure how you could lodge a complaint about someone accurately describing a sport as a foreign sport.Although I suspect this didn't really happen and the woman who sits beside you in work doesn;t really exist either.

You're post have all the hallmarks of the type bull****ter who's just looking for an excuse to have a pop at the GAA and making outlandish inaccurate statements to back it up.

Tell me how

Graces7 wrote: »

rural pubs are invariably crowded. Until midnight often .. whatever the month

Let's stick to the truth Graces7.

Tell me how

Graces7 wrote: »

Kerry; Connemara. Mayo..

House owners can earn more with less work by summer rentals, and leaving houses empty all winter than by renting year long with far more regulations etc.

If you look at the holiday rental ads you will see this.

Finding anywhere affordable is a huge issue. Trawl through any of the daft rural places. lol.. sorry! That sounds dreadful! I meant go to daft.ie and look at rentals in these counties

There is accommodation available in each of those locations.

Some of them of high quality. Certainly much better than what we are seeing being offered in Dublin.
The definition of affordable is somewhat subjective.

sk8erboii

‘Church is dead’
Good

‘Pub culture’

What like 20 morbidly obese men who spend all their welfare checks on pints?

Tell me how

TG4 did a program on this in November. (Link)

One place of focus was Ballylongford in North Kerry. In relation to school numbers they have experienced the following.

"In 1998 there were 490 pupils in the three schools, in 2008 there were 174 and now, in 2018, there are 96 pupils on the roll books. This is an extraordinary depletion in numbers."

There were no junior infants enrolled in Ballylongford in 2017.

An 80% decline in 20 years is very stark.

Sleepy

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

The average farm size in Ireland is 90 acres so every 90 acres, on average, is going to have a house on it. And a second house for the next generation of farmer. It's pretty pointless living 5 miles from the farm and driving back and forth 2 or 3 times a night with cows calving so it's much more time and energy efficient to have 2 houses on the farm.

No argument from me on this at all, farmers obviously have a need to reside on-site. I would ask (and defer to your expertise based on your modship of the Farming & Forestry forum) if an average farm size of 90 acres indicates that we still have too many small farms that are economically unviable? (tangent I know, apologies but the only stupid questions ime, are those unasked)

Those McMansions, as you term them, are generally built and owner by those from outside the area. Indeed, it was a fun game we played while driving around the area and easily spotting those that feel they have to make a 'statement' about their worth. The vast majority of local owner houses would be in the 1,500 to 1,700 sqf range while the recently arrived would be 2,000sqf+ range.

Would I be right in assuming you'd agree with me that planning permission for such should never have been granted?

And lets be honest, a lot of them (and the 1,500 - 1,700sqft properties you mentioned) have been built by those raised in rural towns and villages. The same villages that are now wastelands full of unoccupied domestic and mixed-use real estate. I don't think anyone objects to those who make their living from the land building their homes there. A certain level of inefficiently located property is the price of our security of food supply and high quality agricultural output. There's no need, however, for the son or daughter of the local school teacher / garda / shop keeper to be afforded the same opportunity. Nor indeed, for the off-spring of the farmer who have no intention of ever farming that land themselves.

How is it costing more to supply rural dwellers with services? We built, supply and operate our own water system. We supply right-of-way for fairly nominal payments to allow wayleave for water and electricity services to acces urban customers who don't want those services to be provided anywhere near them. Just taking Dublin as an example, how near to the city are the nearest generating plants? How many wind turbines to provide their green energy demands are anywhere near the demand?

The urban-rural wealth transfer is undeniable if one looks at the figures for govt revenues and expenditure by county.

Denser populations are simply far cheaper to provide public services to. Larger schools and class sizes result in a lower cost to educate each child, fewer miles between houses make the provision of emergency services more efficient (and effective), homes that are closer together reduce the cost-per-home for utility connections and maintenance.

A locally owned and based multinational manufacturing company recently advertised for new recruits, 100 over the next 12 months, to cater for demand. Despite being rural based a good percentage of that companys workforce is urban based. Low skilled, labour intensive? LOL, the good percentage of the new workforce, similar to the existing workforce, will be skilled operatives, computer programmers, management etc etc, not in the perceived lower echelons of the workforce.

Great for them! Genuinely love to hear of domestic success stories.

My point about low-skill, labour intensive industry is that it was the lifeblood of rural towns and villages in decades past (those times we're comparing rural population levels to).

Take Foxford in Mayo where I visited over the Christmas break. Its famous Woolen Mills, which would have employed half the village (and indeed, built many of it's houses) would now operate on a much lower staff (due to automation) and a good percentage of the staff it does have would be working in the gift shop and café. There's no getting those jobs back. Textiles of similar quality can be had for half the price from Asia and the developing world.

The high-value services sector, which we can compete in on global scale (at least for now - education systems in the developing world are catching up and quickly) are never going to locate large scalle operations in rural Ireland. Fund Accounting, Finance and IT all tend to have high turnover and employers won't set up shop without a large pool of local talent. I'm not disparaging the people of rural Ireland here btw - they make up a huge percentage of those working in such industries in our urban centres - it's simply unrealistic to expect to be able to staff such an operation in a location with a population that can be counted in the hundreds or low to mid thousands.

So it's fine to provide subsidised jobs in urban areas but not rural areas? Riiiight:rolleyes:

I'm not in favour of subisidised jobs anywhere tbh. Rural TD's keep pushing for the IDA to "do something" about rural depopulation and they keep being told the same thing: "we're doing what we can but Multi-nationals interested in setting up in Ireland want to be based in it's urban centres" (paraphrasing obviously).

My point was a counterto those constant whines about "de gubbermint abandoning rural Ireland" we hear from those Rural TDs whose solution for pretty much every problem is to throw public money at it. MNCs can't and shouldn't be bribed to provide employment in every hamlet in Ireland. It won't work and would be an awful waste of money.

Prioritising the provision of high-speed broadband within the bounds of every town / village with a population over 500? That's the kind of policy I can get behind. Insisting it be rolled out beyond that so Seamus who lives four miles down a boreen off a local road can telecommute to his fund accounting job in Ballsbridge seems more like giving a hand-out to Seamus than a sensible investment of public funds.

Del.Monte

Tell me how wrote: »

Can you please give a rural location where you have found it is difficult to buy or rent.

Unsurprisingly - Co.Wexford.

Del.Monte

sk8erboii wrote: »

‘Church is dead’
Good

‘Pub culture’

What like 20 morbidly obese men who spend all their welfare checks on pints?

You must frequent choice places. :rolleyes:

Alrigghtythen

The country's ****ed. Knock it and start again.

nice_guy80

Berserker wrote: »

A child from any religious or political background can play rugby. The same cannot be said for GAA. A child who wants to play GAA, rugby and hockey, is still not allowed to do so by the GAA in 2018/19. The GAA club members will make attending training sessions and games for others sports as difficult as possible for the youngster. I thought this nonsense died out years ago but it's still going on.

err, I teach in a small Church of Ireland primary school where the kids play rugby, soccer, basketball, go horse riding, go swimming and love their quad bikes

Oh, and we won Division 5 in the Gaelic Football schools championship for the last 2 years running.
a few of them are even allowed to play club football too

nice_guy80

serviced affordable sites in a proper cluster arrangement in small villages and towns, provided by the county councils - available to decent working people who will buy the site and build their own house, adhering to a particular style
within walking and cycling distance of the school, shop, post office, community centre and sports clubs, and pub

would cut carbon emmissions hugely
better standard of living
better communities

sk8erboii

Del.Monte wrote: »

You must frequent choice places. :rolleyes:

Can you explain what pub culture is? Afaik its just a way of swindling tourists

nice_guy80

sk8erboii wrote: »

Can you explain what pub culture is? Afaik its just a way of swindling tourists

its basically meeting people from your area and having a social drink with them or enjoying a social event together

sk8erboii

nice_guy80 wrote: »

its basically meeting people from your area and having a social drink with them or enjoying a social event together

I see. That’s vague enough to be applied to anything social tbh

nice_guy80

sk8erboii wrote: »

I see. That’s vague enough to be applied to anything social tbh

What other venue is there in rural areas open at 9pm on a Thursday evening?