GDPR and schools

rainbowtrout

joebloggs32 wrote: »

This stuff about homework is a load of horse manure.
If principals have stopped teachers bringing them home there must be someone out there on the lecture circuit really scaremongering.
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Some principals follow a common sense approach and some are more letter of the law types. In the school 10 miles down the road from where I work there are no photos of students on the walls of the school as a result of GDPR.

I’d imagine many schools have year group photos, football teams etc on their walls as part of the history of the school and student achievements.

RealJohn

rainbowtrout wrote: »

In my school you can only view student profiles on VS Ware for students you teach. So if you don't teach third years but you do take the U16 football team after school, tough luck putting in a random student name to find out what class the 3As are in so you can give them a message about the match as you don't have access. Go and ask the secretary or spend your time traipsing around the building looking in windows of classrooms to find the class.

Ours is the same, and it’s a right pain. It means that if you see a student you don’t teach misbehaving, you can’t put a report on vsware yourself, or if a group of students you don’t teach is helping you with something, you can’t give them a positive report on vsware either.

We’ve been told that that’s a problem with vsware and that it shouldn’t be the case, but I was suspicious of that excuse already, before hearing that other schools are having the same issue.

judeboy101

joebloggs32 wrote: »

This stuff about homework is a load of horse manure.
If principals have stopped teachers bringing them home there must be someone out there on the lecture circuit really scaremongering.
You can bring home copies as it is a normal part of your duties. You have a reason to access the students "data" that is legitimate. Just put it in your GDPR policy if your worried. There would be some craic waiting for the mocks to be corrected if it all had to be done in the school building!

What is important would be making sure to keep all sensitive and personal data secure, and only using it for the authorised purposes. Make sure enrolment forms explicitly ingorm the parents/guardians of the relevant GDPR policies.

Correcting copies is not in a teachers contract, unless I'm mistaken. Most teachers full time have a "contract" to teach for 21hrs 20mins. There is another 40mins a week which may be used for "feedback" which could be correcting homework but as this feedback is linked to new jc that would be formative not summative correcting.

mtoutlemonde

RealJohn wrote: »

Ours is the same, and it’s a right pain. It means that if you see a student you don’t teach misbehaving, you can’t put a report on vsware yourself, or if a group of students you don’t teach is helping you with something, you can’t give them a positive report on vsware either.

We’ve been told that that’s a problem with vsware and that it shouldn’t be the case, but I was suspicious of that excuse already, before hearing that other schools are having the same issue.

It's the school who decides what teachers can do on VSWare. Was in a school where you could only see your comment for your student so you couldn't see if other teachers were writing positive or negative remarks. Now that was a pain.

doc_17

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Was it not discussed at the start of the year? Careful with student data, no bringing home work or being very careful about it, logging out of vsware, using initials instead of names, disposal of year planner etc.

You are of course correct.

But I’ll dispose my year planner when they compensate me for it! I like having it to look back on as a reference point. I’ll be keeping mine.

r93kaey5p2izun

We were told the opposite about planners last May - that they must be retained until the students covered have left the school 7 years.

mtoutlemonde

doc_17 wrote: »

You are of course correct.

But I’ll dispose my year planner when they compensate me for it! I like having it to look back on as a reference point. I’ll be keeping mine.

I have mine aswell - don't know why but there there 😁

Kinsley Panicky Knitting wrote: »

We were told the opposite about planners last May - that they must be retained until the students covered have left the school 7 years.

School diaries returned to office for shredding/storage - don't know what they do with them. You're own is your own - dispose/keep.

AndrewJRenko

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

You're own is your own - dispose/keep.

Does it contain personal data?

mtoutlemonde

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Does it contain personal data?

Yes but it's your property.

AndrewJRenko

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Yes but it's your property.

GDPR laws still apply. The best way to avoid the laws is to destroy the data.

doc_17

It contains my personal data as well. If the school tell me it isn’t mine to do with what I please then I be purchasing one next year.

It’s all gone crackers.

spurious

God help us what a lot of nonsense.

evolving_doors

Be very careful of destroying your notes. I know of a court case (injury claim) where the notes a teacher took 5 years prior absolved them/school as it showed correct procedures were followed and the former students' statement was unreliable.
Similarly if you're meeting with parents you can take notes.... recap with the parents at the end. It's happened on quite a few occasions where a parent subsequently claims " I never agreed to that" and you can refer to your notes.

Do the Gardaí destroy their notebooks?

I reckon it's logical to take notes if it reasonably pertains to a student/your work same as a doctor or psychologist. The problem arises of how theyr stored. Also if it has a students name on it I presume its open to a request to view it by parents. But in that instance it would be reasonable to redact other students info imo .

AndrewJRenko

doc_17 wrote: »

It contains my personal data as well. If the school tell me it isn’t mine to do with what I please then I be purchasing one next year.

It’s all gone crackers.

spurious wrote: »

God help us what a lot of nonsense.

Is it really crackers or nonsense to expect that records made in a professional capacity are professionally managed? These records could include details about abilities or disabilities of children, possibly references to sensitive family issues, maybe references to fellow teachers.


Or put it another way, would you be happy if your doctor or your physio (or your child's doctor or your child's speech therapist) was making notes about you as a patient and taking the records home, maybe to their house share with other professionals?

evolving_doors

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is it really crackers or nonsense to expect that records made in a professional capacity are professionally managed? These records could include details about abilities or disabilities of children, possibly references to sensitive family issues, maybe references to fellow teachers.


Or put it another way, would you be happy if your doctor or your physio (or your child's doctor or your child's speech therapist) was making notes about you as a patient and taking the records home, maybe to their house share with other professionals?

I think what's maddening a lot of teachers is that they are being told NOT to take any notes or send emails with a student's name associated with it. information has to be verbally transmitted.
Of course I'd agree that there's an element of risk involved once the data leaves the school and that needs to be explored.
I think there was a case last year of a teacher who had given kids pages to bring home and colour.... but didn't realise that very detailed notes on a child with a serious additional need were on the other side.

AndrewJRenko

evolving_doors wrote: »

I think what's maddening a lot of teachers is that they are being told NOT to take any notes or send emails with a student's name associated with it. information has to be verbally transmitted.
Of course I'd agree that there's an element of risk involved once the data leaves the school and that needs to be explored.
I think there was a case last year of a teacher who had given kids pages to bring home and colour.... but didn't realise that very detailed notes on a child with a serious additional need were on the other side.

The verbal thing doesn't sound like a good idea either. There is nothing wrong with good records, once they are properly managed. I can see the concern about email, as it is much more difficult to manage those records after the fact.


Is the 'verbal only' policy an official one or unofficial?

evolving_doors

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The verbal thing doesn't sound like a good idea either. There is nothing wrong with good records, once they are properly managed. I can see the concern about email, as it is much more difficult to manage those records after the fact.


Is the 'verbal only' policy an official one or unofficial?

being official depends on the school. Some schools say to discuss verbally. Others say "don't take any notes"... Others say "be careful about taking any notes. Others said nothing.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

doc_17 wrote: »

It contains my personal data as well. If the school tell me it isn’t mine to do with what I please then I be purchasing one next year.

Please don't keep your own copies of notes on student - it's not your place to do so. I don't want information about my kids floating around in someone's private possession.

If you aren't willing to take data protection seriously, then don't teach. The rest of the professional world has to adhere to the same standards.

spurious

Joey Yellow Stage wrote: »

Please don't keep your own copies of notes on student - it's not your place to do so. I don't want information about my kids floating around in someone's private possession.

If you aren't willing to take data protection seriously, then don't teach. The rest of the professional world has to adhere to the same standards.

Why would anyone keep private notes on a child? I cannot think of any reason to do so.

State exam results, contact addresses, names of guardians etc., all things that might be asked for or useful in the future.
We regularly had men come in up to 25 years after they had left school looking for proof of exam results - and we had them for them, in a secure location.

AndrewJRenko

spurious wrote: »

Why would anyone keep private notes on a child? I cannot think of any reason to do so.

State exam results, contact addresses, names of guardians etc., all things that might be asked for or useful in the future.
We regularly had men come in up to 25 years after they had left school looking for proof of exam results - and we had them for them, in a secure location.

And there is nothing in GDPR that stops schools doing this - once they have proper policies and proper controls - including the right to have data deleted and the right to be forgotten.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

spurious wrote: »

State exam results, contact addresses, names of guardians etc., all things that might be asked for or useful in the future.
We regularly had men come in up to 25 years after they had left school looking for proof of exam results - and we had them for them, in a secure location.

Do you mean in the school? That is different to keeping your own planner and notes with student personal data, which is what doc_17 is saying he/she will do.

Even so, the school needs to have a data retention policy. State exam results should not be stored at all - that's a matter for the SEC. Apart from some specific records such as disciplinary notes and accident records, most data should be retained for 7 years past the date that the student turned 18.

What is stored should always be held securely, with encryption and access control. None of it should be in a teacher's private possession.

gaiscioch

I just searched our VSware or whatever it's called for the timetable of other teachers as I need to make an exchange for cover with teachers who will be available at a specific time so I need to know who those teachers are. It's that or individually ask every other teacher until I find the answer.

Is that an infringement of the data protection legislation?

evolving_doors

gaiscioch wrote: »

I just searched our VSware or whatever it's called for the timetable of other teachers as I need to make an exchange for cover with teachers who will be available at a specific time so I need to know who those teachers are. It's that or individually ask every other teacher until I find the answer.

Is that an infringement of the data protection legislation?

Did you close the curtains in case anyone might have been peeking in at your screen:pac:

judeboy101

gaiscioch wrote: »

I just searched our VSware or whatever it's called for the timetable of other teachers as I need to make an exchange for cover with teachers who will be available at a specific time so I need to know who those teachers are. It's that or individually ask every other teacher until I find the answer.

Is that an infringement of the data protection legislation?

Technically, unless your using a secure vpn, ur computer is uber clean or the comp belongs to the school, then no.

doc_17

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is it really crackers or nonsense to expect that records made in a professional capacity are professionally managed? These records could include details about abilities or disabilities of children, possibly references to sensitive family issues, maybe references to fellow teachers.


Or put it another way, would you be happy if your doctor or your physio (or your child's doctor or your child's speech therapist) was making notes about you as a patient and taking the records home, maybe to their house share with other professionals?

Would a medical professional be in the dark as to whether they are allowed to take those records? Or if they should have to pay for the resource that stores them?

doc_17

Joey Yellow Stage wrote: »

Please don't keep your own copies of notes on student - it's not your place to do so. I don't want information about my kids floating around in someone's private possession.

If you aren't willing to take data protection seriously, then don't teach. The rest of the professional world has to adhere to the same standards.

Idiotic post. Truly stupid. If you turn up at my PT Meeting and ask how your child is doing then I’ll say that I have no information as you didn’t appprove of me keeping records