Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Evd-Burner

alexmalalex wrote: »

Why do you folks always point to the public sector pay increases during this period versus the excessive tax cuts?

You were not belly aching about tax cuts then...and I suspect you won't now.

Nobody disputes bench marking was a crazy idea, but folks on your side of the argument never mention all the tax cuts + the huge bonuses enjoyed by the private sector. Public sector workers on the average wage couldn;t afford a house in the Celtic tiger, and they sure as hell can't afford one now.

Which tax cuts?

My tax was reduced by less than 260 for the entire year, tax cuts the the nurses will also get!

Goldengirl

alexmalalex wrote: »

Why do you folks always point to the public sector pay increases during this period versus the excessive tax cuts?

You were not belly aching about tax cuts then...and I suspect you won't now.

Nobody disputes bench marking was a crazy idea, but folks on your side of the argument never mention all the tax cuts + the huge bonuses enjoyed by the private sector. Public sector workers on the average wage couldn;t afford a house in the Celtic tiger, and they sure as hell can't afford one now.

Agreed . There is an agenda pursued by many high earning folk against increases in public service wages, despite any legitimate arguments put forward to prove that in some areas it is necessary to attract and reward essential staff . However the same people crib and give out if they have to wait for a doctor or nurse to come and look after them or their families, or if any mention of paying higher taxes to pay for services .
And our government has ignored the difficulties of many thousands of workers in Dublin, who are increasingly being oppressed by pay not keeping in tandem with high rents and prices in the Capital and some of the other cities .It is about time that this was addressed in the form of a Dublin / City weighting.

backspin.

Qualifying as a nurse is not the same as qualifying as a physio or an OT. There is no pay for student physios or OT's as far as I know and jobs are harder to come by. You are quite likely to get a job within driving distance from your home town anywhere in Ireland as a nurse The same can not be said if you qualify as an OT or a Physio.

Twenty Grand

RoseHayes wrote: »

You make a very good point.

Fix the overcrowding first, they get paid enough for what they do.

Do they?
There's a serious lack of nurses in this country.

If it was any other industry the wages would be through the roof to encourage talent to apply.

RoseHayes

backspin. wrote: »

Qualifying as a nurse is not the same as qualifying as a physio or an OT. There is no pay for student physios or OT's as far as I know and jobs are harder to come by. You are quite likely to get a job within driving distance from your home town anywhere in Ireland as a nurse The same can not be said if you qualify as an OT or a Physio.

Yes, becoming a nurse is not as academically challenging as a Physio or an O.T.

They get paid for work experience too, while Pharmacy students will no longer be doing!
Why aren't the Pharmacists striking?

Because the squeeky wheel gets the oiling!

Goldengirl

Dia1988 wrote: »

I've been receiving threatening and abusive PMs from certain users on here. They've even attacked my family.

Do you know what Dia, you deserve it! You have been trolling people on this thread , so what goes around...

Twenty Grand

RoseHayes wrote: »

Yes, becoming a nurse is not as academically challenging as a Physio or an O.T.

They get paid for work experience too, while Pharmacy students will no longer be doing!
Why aren't the Pharmacists striking?

Because the squeeky wheel gets the oiling!

What makes being a physio more academically challenging?
Nurses don't get paid work experience until their final placement I believe.
Pharmacists can earn far more than nurses, plus they can go private. You ever hear of a pharmacy shutting down?

Student nurses are being used as free labour by the HSE to make up for the shortage.
They usually get a travel allowance, although this tlcan take months to come through and they have to pay upwards of €100 for vaccinations before they begin.

Wheres Me Jumper?

mikemac2 wrote: »

Why should they care though?

Everyone was against the Luas drivers and they won

Public support is not needed to get what you want

i might be wrong. time will tell.
but i do feel the nurses are in for a very rude awakening.

RoseHayes

Twenty Grand wrote: »

What makes being a physio more academically challenging?
Nurses don't get paid work experience.
Pharmacists can earn far more than nurses, plus they can go private. You ever hear of a pharmacy shutting down?

Nurses get paid in Year 4.

Pharacists cover a more in depth subject knowledge that require more mental processes and higher order thinking.
Pharmacy students will no longer get paid for work experience.
Nurses can work in the private sector too, private clinics and nursing homes

Twenty Grand

RoseHayes wrote: »

Nurses get paid in Year 4.

Pharacists cover a more in depth subject knowledge that require more mental processes and higher order thinking.
Pharmacy students will no longer get paid for work experience.
Nurses can work in the private sector too, private clinics and nursing homes

Sorry I edited my post. They don't get paid in years 1-3.
What is "higher order thinking"? How does it relate to what we're talking about?

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i might be wrong. time will tell.
but i do feel the nurses are in for a very rude awakening.

If the current hiring situation gets worse the health services as a whole will just get worse.
That's the long and short of it. We should be trying to make nursing as appealing as possible, through wages, incentives and improving conditions.

gctest50

Twenty Grand wrote: »

......................

and they have to pay upwards of €100 for vaccinations before they begin.

Awwww, and what about some young lad starting on the site of the new Childrens Hospital ?

Have to spend more than that on a few tools and clothes to begin with

Why shouldn't that lad get more ?

Twenty Grand

gctest50 wrote: »

Awwww, and what about some young lad starting on the site of the new Childrens Hospital ?

Have to spend more than that on a few tools and clothes to begin with

Why shouldn't that lad get more ?

I don't understand? What lad? What tools? Or is this an extreme form of whataboutery?

Goldengirl

Twenty Grand wrote: »

What makes being a physio more academically challenging?
Nurses don't get paid work experience.
Pharmacists can earn far more than nurses, plus they can go private. You ever hear of a pharmacy shutting down?

Yes, I was just wondering the same thing. Physiotherapy is a much more limited discipline which can be studied in greater depth, yes. So too can aspects of nursing , but if the colleges went down that route nurses would be in college for many more years! As it is nurses get a broader training in some depth, and they tend to do postgraduate courses to extend their knowledge further in whatever speciality they work in.
Same with OT s.
It makes no sense to compare physios to nurses as there like apples and oranges. Fewer jobs in the sector so fewer places in universities, higher points. Higher points do not make for higher thinkers, just more stressed kids having to achieve more to get them !
It also makes no sense for one group in the HSE to bash another colleague group...

RoseHayes

It's so obvious that this thread is littered with nurses

Any valid argument raised against a pay rise for nurses they get bullied.

Gardai should get paid the same as nurses, they start at 23k!!!

alexmalalex

RoseHayes wrote: »

It's so obvious that this thread is littered with nurses

Any valid argument raised against a pay rise for nurses they get bullied.

Gardai should get paid the same as nurses, they start at 23k!!!

Hi Dia1988

Tell me how

hawkelady wrote: »

Read what you type again ! Are you serious with regards one bloody radio slot piece ? Maybe Phil wanted to read from a script , maybe she didn’t want to take up her 4 mins segueing with that ape Yates , cause she knew that’s exactly what he would have wanted. You’re basing nurses earn 57k due to the face someone didn’t say they weren’t ??? You can do better that that as its a pathetic way to reach a conclusion

Ciara Kelly arguing for nurses increase also agreed they're on 57k average.

If Phil cannot counter such a key figure in this debate then she was a poor choice as union secretary. Everything thing she said sounded like she knew what she was talking about so her not arguing the rate is not due to her approach or competency in my view.

Someone else pointed out here the 57k figure was referenced in the Dail and also not denied or countered.

I'm trying to listen to what should be the key people in this debate comment on the facts (that is what a public discussion is).

gctest50

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I don't understand? What lad? What tools? Or is this an extreme form of whataboutery?

You are pointing out a nurse needs to spend 100 euro on vaccinations before they begin :

Twenty Grand wrote: »

......................

they have to pay upwards of €100 for vaccinations before they begin.

People starting off in other careers need to spend money on themselves too


For Example : if a lad starts working on a building site, he might need to buy a few tools n work clothes


.
.

hawkelady

alexmalalex wrote: »

Hi Dia1988

He outstayed his welcome and is no longer with us .. result

Twenty Grand

RoseHayes wrote: »

It's so obvious that this thread is littered with nurses

Any valid argument raised against a pay rise for nurses they get bullied.

Gardai should get paid the same as nurses, they start at 23k!!!

Why Gardai? What similarities are there between nurses and Gardai?
Education requirements? No
Training time? No
Pay scale? No
Roles and responsibilities? No
Shift patterns? No

Sure you may as well say "Gardai get paid the same as TDs".

There hasn't been a single valid argument yet.
All we get is the usual, "well (some unrelated industry) gets paid this, so nurses should get the same", or "ah sure all they do is stand around on Facebook" and the stellar "Sure how does the government pay for that?"

People starting off in other careers need to spend money on themselves too


For Example : if a lad starts working on a building site, he might need to buy a few tools n work clothes

Oh you mean that lad that's getting paid to be there?
Not like that nurse that's not getting paid to be there :rolleyes:

You know that 3rd year apprentices get upwards of €500 a week before tax? While 3rd year nurses get nothing.
Come on lads, you can do better.

Edgware

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i might be wrong. time will tell.
but i do feel the nurses are in for a very rude awakening.

Ooooh Matron!

RoseHayes

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Why Gardai? What similarities are there between nurses and Gardai?
Education requirements? No
Training time? No
Pay scale? No
Roles and responsibilities? No
Shift patterns? No

Sure you may as well say "Gardai get paid the same as TDs".

There hasn't been a single valid argument yet.
All we get is the usual, "well (some unrelated industry) gets paid this, so nurses should get the same", or "ah sure all they do is stand around on Facebook" and the stellar "Sure how does the government pay for that?"

Using your own logic then how are nurses like teachers and engineers then?

Nurses and Gardai are front line staff.

or are you saying because nurses did a 4 year degree they should be paid the same as other 4 year degree professions? In that case Pilots should be paid the same as Gardai as they both do 18 month courses! What a silly logic you uses!

Nurses get paid one of the highest in the OECD countries and yet are complaining.
They should be striking about conditions solely not pay.

Doctors start at 3ok after 5 years of college!!

What do you think nurses should be paid?

RoseHayes

[QUOTE=
You know that 3rd year apprentices get upwards of €500 a week before tax? While 3rd year nurses get nothing.
Come on lads, you can do better.[/QUOTE]

Teachers and Pharmacists get nothing every year!!!

At least in Year 4 nurses get paid!

Twenty Grand

RoseHayes wrote: »

Using your own logic then how are nurses like teachers and engineers then?

Nurses and Gardai are front line staff.

or are you saying because nurses did a 4 year degree they should be paid the same as other 4 year degree professions? In that case Pilots should be paid the same as Gardai as they both do 18 month courses! What a silly logic you uses!

Nurses get paid one of the highest in the OECD countries and yet are complaining.
They should be striking about conditions solely not pay.

Doctors start at 3ok after 5 years of college!!

What do you think nurses should be paid?

What does front line staff mean? They deal with the public? Like librarians?
Where did I say they were like teachers and engineer? Or pilots for that matter? You must be confusing me for someone else.

Nurses are striking about conditions. They're striking about the huge number of vacancies that aren't being filled because no body wants to be a nurse and work in Ireland. The best way to hire people is to offer attractive wages.

Doctors start on 30k and can earn 100k plus after they get experience. Nurses cant. And they're totally different jobs.

RoseHayes wrote: »

Teachers and Pharmacists get nothing every year!!!

At least in Year 4 nurses get paid!

So what? I made 5 points in that post and you're focussed on the least significant.
The main point was they're being used to plug holes in the health service when they should be receiving supervised training. Teachers and pharmacists are not.

RoseHayes

Twenty Grand wrote: »

What does front line staff mean? They deal with the public? Like librarians?
Where did I say they were like teachers and engineer? Or pilots for that matter? You must be confusing me for someone else.

Nurses are striking about conditions. They're striking about the huge number of vacancies that aren't being filled because no body wants to be a nurse and work in Ireland. The best way to hire people is to offer attractive wages.

Doctors start on 30k and can earn 100k plus after they get experience. Nurses cant. And they're totally different jobs.
So what? I made 5 points in that post and you're focussed on the least significant.
The main point was they're being used to plug holes in the health service when they should be receiving supervised training. Teachers and pharmacists are not.

If you were charged with setting the nurses wages what would you pay a nurse in Year 1, 5, 10, 30?

Twenty Grand

RoseHayes wrote: »

If you were charged with setting the nurses wages what would you pay a nurse in Year 1, 5, 10, 30?

I'd pay them whatever it takes to increase the number of students studying nursing and whatever to retain and entice nurses to Ireland.

People don't seem to grasp that unlike teachers, Gardai and Luas drivers, there's a very limited supply of nurses and doctors and they're absolutely essential to running the health service.
Ireland is in competition with every other country for the best and brightest and we're sh*te at it.

Without paying them wages that are appropriate to the demand were ALWAYS going to have a crappy health service.

RoseHayes

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I'd pay them whatever it takes to increase the number of students studying nursing and whatever to retain and entice nurses to Ireland.

People don't seem to grasp that unlike teachers, Gardai and Luas drivers, there's a very limited supply of nurses and doctors and they're absolutely essential to running the health service.
Ireland is in competition with every other country for the best and brightest and we're sh*te at it.

Without paying them wages that are appropriate to the demand were ALWAYS going to have a crappy health service.

WOW, what a flawed comment!

Teachers are in serious short supply with Principals desperate and reliant on substitute retired teachers. Have you heard the adverts in the media to attract teachers?

Your're clearly a nurse with a very short sight!

You think by paying the nurses extra that'll improve the health service in a conversely related relationship! What an idiotic comment!

Plus, nurses don't become nurses for the pay!

Twenty Grand

RoseHayes wrote: »

WOW, what a flawed comment!

Teachers are in serious short supply with Principals desperate and reliant on substitute retired teachers. Have you heard the adverts in the media to attract teachers?

Your're clearly a nurse with a very short sight!

You think by paying the nurses extra that'll improve the health service! What an idiotic comment!

Plus, nurses don't become nurses for the pay!

There's a far greater nurse shortage than teachers. There's no shortage in primary schools. At least principals have the option to take back staff, but theres no schools reaching out to African and Asian countries to hire teachers. Feel free to prove me wrong there.

And by the way, the teacher shortage is usually in STEM and languages. Why would you bother becoming a teacher when you can earn so much more working for a MNC? Maybe teachers in high demand subjects should be paid more?

Seeing as you've rubbished my post, how do you suggest fixing the shortage of nurses in Ireland, considering the UK can't even hire the 40 thousand nurses it needs right now?

RoseHayes

Twenty Grand wrote: »

There's a far greater nurse shortage than teachers. There's no shortage in primary schools. At least principals have the option to take back staff, but theres no schools reaching out to African and Asian countries to hire teachers. Feel free to prove me wrong there.

And by the way, the teacher shortage is usually in STEM and languages. Why would you bother becoming a teacher when you can earn so much more working for a MNC? Maybe teachers in high demand subjects should be paid more?

Seeing as you've rubbished my post, how do you suggest fixing the shortage of nurses in Ireland, considering the UK can't even hire the 40 thousand nurses it needs right now?

Actually there is a shortage of Primary Teachers in Ireland. And the Government would look and abroad if they could, but Fluent Irish speaking Asian Primary Teachers proficient im Music, literacy, maths, science etc aren't in great supply!

At least with nurses they can attract from Asia/Africa.

Have you a link to UK needing 40k nurses?

Please suggest an exact figure you think nurses should be paid?

hmmm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

There's a far greater nurse shortage than teachers.

That's not what the statistics say.

How will increasing nurses pay create more nursing positions? If the problem is not enough nurses, despite us paying more per head for health than the NHS, then the money should be put into increasing the number of positions, not paying the current nurses more.

Twenty Grand

RoseHayes wrote: »

Actually there is a shortage of Primary Teachers in Ireland. And the Government would look and abroad if they could, but Fluent Irish speaking Asian Primary Teachers proficient im Music, literacy, maths, science etc aren't in great supply!

At least with nurses they can attract from Asia/Africa.

Have you a link to UK needing 40k nurses?

Please suggest an exact figure you think nurses should be paid?

Wrong again my friend.
The dept of education has planned on retraining primary teachers to fill the secondary gap.
It's predicted the number of primary students will fall over the next few years.

You don't need Irish to work in second level either....so...

Here's the link to the figure but I can give you more if you need: https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/warning-of-possible-51000-nurse-shortfall-in-england-after-brexit/7026639.article

I dont care what it is, 50, 60, 70 at the top of the pay scale with all the qualifications. We have a massive hiring problem and people are ignoring it.


Any chance you're going to answer my question or is this a one way street?

Shefwedfan

RoseHayes wrote: »

Actually there is a shortage of Primary Teachers in Ireland. And the Government would look and abroad if they could, but Fluent Irish speaking Asian Primary Teachers proficient im Music, literacy, maths, science etc aren't in great supply!

At least with nurses they can attract from Asia/Africa.

Have you a link to UK needing 40k nurses?

Please suggest an exact figure you think nurses should be paid?

Why do they need fluent Irish speaking teachers?

The other subjects, shock horror but other countries do teach those subjects as well

Goldengirl

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Compared to a new entrant nurse in the English NHS, a new entrant nurse in Ireland earns 21 per cent more in basic pay based on current exchange rates. While allowances and promotional opportunities differ across jurisdictions, a nurse at the top of the HSE staff nurse scale would earn 39 per cent more than a nurse at the top of the NHS England B and 5 scale.


“More broadly, OECD nursing remuneration data show that, in purchasing power parity terms, Irish nursing pay (including allowances and premium payments) between 2007 and 2017 was consistently on a par with Australia and higher than New Zealand, Canada and the UK,” notes the spending review.

It also maintains that 82 per cent of all nurses and midwives are on basic salaries of more than €40,000 exclusive of allowances or premium payments.

This would be because their BASIC salary goes up incrementally every year they work until it hits 12 years service, which is classed as MAX, then it rattles around on a long service increment until they hit 20 years service and they get a senior staff nurse wage. So if all the young ones are leaving that would most probably account for the 82 % on salaries more than €40 k , but it's not their BASIC wage!

Goldengirl

RoseHayes wrote: »

It's so obvious that this thread is littered with nurses

Any valid argument raised against a pay rise for nurses they get bullied.

Gardai should get paid the same as nurses, they start at 23k!!!

" Littered with nurses"! What a condescending , arrogant comment!
It's a debate about nurse's pay...should we wait for your permission to comment?

If you say something like above is it bullying on your part, or mine, if I return that one cannot equate Garda training with a nursing degree just as five years for a doctor does not equate with Primary school teaching and a H.Dip in Ed.... you are not comparing like for like and only trying to annoy or get a rise out of people. Is that why you have been banned before?

hawkelady

GraceLehane wrote: »

That makes sense.

Employ more nurses to improve conditions.

Try keep up to date .... they are struggling to employ more nurses cause of the poor wages .. that’s their argument

Graces7

What do folk make of this?

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0113/1022957-nurses-pay-doherty/

Header is "Doherty: Nurses have not said they are not happy with pay"

Please read the article? Interesting..

gmisk

Graces7 wrote: »

What do folk make of this?

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0113/1022957-nurses-pay-doherty/

Header is "Doherty: Nurses have not said they are not happy with pay"

Please read the article? Interesting..

I read the article.....I was like stephen donnelly....he isnt FF....on no wait he is now!
Utterly shameless, after he made comments about FF ""jobs for the boys, bonuses for the boys, lack of accountability and two fingers to the Dáil".
https://www.joe.ie/news/stephen-donnelly-badly-caught-evening-comments-fianna-fail-576039

There is an interview where he talks about the fact nurses are already paid enough, that fella does so many u-turns I am surprised he doesnt need a nurse to help him with his whiplash!
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/nurses-and-doctors-await-commission-report-on-staff-pay-1.3580267

con___manx1

Ipso wrote: »

How much extra tax are you willing to pay for their rise?

Nurses work shift 24/7 they should be getting much more than what they are getting. Dont be worried about your own pocket. We all pay tax.

gmisk

GraceLehane wrote: »

Nurses are paid enough.

It's the conditions that aren't favourable.

You think all nurses are paid enough?
I disagree.


I think an average of €31,112 is fairly poor.
https://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=Registered_Nurse_(RN)/Salary
it is the new starts who have been royally screwed over, especially by unions, that should be looked at as a more important area IMO when it comes to pay.

I agree the conditions are a bigger issue.

hawkelady

GraceLehane wrote: »

Nurses are paid enough.

It's the conditions that aren't favourable.

Why can’t they recruit them so ???

gmisk

GraceLehane wrote: »

gmisk wrote: »

You think all nurses are paid enough?
I ]

Let's be realistic here nurses aren't the brain surgeons or doctors in the hospital.

That figure quoted is base pay and before average allowances of 4 to 6k.

Most engineers start on less which is laughable !


I think the Government should just pool their e resources into a campaign in recruiting foreign nurses.

You think they would be queueing up to move to ireland with that kind of money given the cost of rent in most cities in ireland?

Shefwedfan

GraceLehane wrote: »

gmisk wrote: »

You think all nurses are paid enough?
I ]

Let's be realistic here nurses aren't the brain surgeons or doctors in the hospital.

That figure quoted is base pay and before average allowances of 4 to 6k.

Most engineers start on less which is laughable !


I think the Government should just pool their e resources into a campaign in recruiting foreign nurses.

A foreign nurse will get a moving fee. Once they are over here they will still be on the same pay structure the current nurses are on. Or are you asking for the Government to pay less to foreign nurses?

gmisk

Shefwedfan wrote: »

GraceLehane wrote: »

A foreign nurse will get a moving fee. Once they are over here they will still be on the same pay structure the current nurses are on. Or are you asking for the Government to pay less to foreign nurses?

Of course I am not, no idea where you got that suggestion from.
Do foreign nurses get a moving fee now? Or is that something you are suggesting?

Padraig Mor

Goldengirl wrote: »

This would be because their BASIC salary goes up incrementally every year they work until it hits 12 years service, which is classed as MAX, then it rattles around on a long service increment until they hit 20 years service and they get a senior staff nurse wage. So if all the young ones are leaving that would most probably account for the 82 % on salaries more than €40 k , but it's not their BASIC wage!

Just had a look at the Pay Commission report which includes the actual FACTS.

"The average earnings for all HSE Staff Nurses in 2017 was approximately €51,000 with allowances, overtime and other payments accounting for approximately 20% to 25% of these earnings."

Note this is only for Staff Nurse grade - not Senior Staff Nurse (average approx €62k) or managerial grades - so the most 'basic' nurses. Note also that overtime (as opposed to premium payments and allowances) makes up only a tiny fraction of the overall figure. If anything, the graph below suggests that the higher grades are underpaid - why bother being a Director of Nursing (used they not be called matrons?) for the sake of the few grand more it pays than being a relatively lowly Senior Staff Nurse?

Of course, we'll have posters here again trying to deny reality and telling us that averages aren't average etc......

mariaalice

Anyone have any idea where the simmering dislike of nurses along with the slight underlining nastiness of posters like Padraig Mor comes from? a few more similar posters on this thread.

Union spin has very little to do with front line staff.

Shefwedfan

mariaalice wrote: »

Anyone have any idea where the simmering dislike of nurses along with the slight underlining nastiness of posters like Padraig Mor comes from? a few more similar posters on this thread.

Union spin has very little to do with front line staff.

No idea....


All I can tell from last post is the standard wage is 40k......nothing like the 55k posted here


If a nurse then is willing to sign off their personal life and work nights/weekend etc they can up that wage to maybe 50k....

Would love to see the face on a few people around here if they got told they could earn up to an extra 10k but they have to works nights and weekend etc for the year.....plus overtime to get to that as well......



P.S. I ain't a nurse, nothing to do with nursing before that chestnut gets fired at me

Shefwedfan

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Just had a look at the Pay Commission report which includes the actual FACTS.

"The average earnings for all HSE Staff Nurses in 2017 was approximately €51,000 with allowances, overtime and other payments accounting for approximately 20% to 25% of these earnings."

Note this is only for Staff Nurse grade - not Senior Staff Nurse (average approx €62k) or managerial grades - so the most 'basic' nurses. Note also that overtime (as opposed to premium payments and allowances) makes up only a tiny fraction of the overall figure. If anything, the graph below suggests that the higher grades are underpaid - why bother being a Director of Nursing (used they not be called matrons?) for the sake of the few grand more it pays than being a relatively lowly Senior Staff Nurse?

Of course, we'll have posters here again trying to deny reality and telling us that averages aren't average etc......

How many nights shifts and weekends do you current work? how many Christmas Day? Christmas Eve's? New Year Days? etc do you work?

Also the most "basic" nurse as you put it still has a degree. Over 57% of people currently living in Ireland have no degree.

So the most "basic" nurse isn't really that basic is it?

How many people in Ireland are earning over 51k basic and don't have a degree and work 9-5?

mikhail

mariaalice wrote: »

Anyone have any idea where the simmering dislike of nurses along with the slight underlining nastiness of posters like Padraig Mor comes from? a few more similar posters on this thread.

Union spin has very little to do with front line staff.

They're perceived as strike-happy, much like teachers.

lawred2

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How many nights shifts and weekends do you current work? how many Christmas Day? Christmas Eve's? New Year Days? etc do you work?

Also the most "basic" nurse as you put it still has a degree. Over 57% of people currently living in Ireland have no degree.

So the most "basic" nurse isn't really that basic is it?

How many people in Ireland are earning over 51k basic and don't have a degree and work 9-5?

ye what?

43% of people living in Ireland have a degree?

really?

sounds high

Padraig Mor

mariaalice wrote: »

Anyone have any idea where the simmering dislike of nurses along with the slight underlining nastiness of posters like Padraig Mor comes from? a few more similar posters on this thread.

Union spin has very little to do with front line staff.

I'd appreciate if you withdrew that remark. I don't believe that I've made any comment that can be construed as 'nasty' on this thread. Indeed, I don't believe I've given any view on whether nurses' pay should be increased or not. What I have done, however, is point out that it's literally impossible to say "nurses deserve a payrise" without first quantifying what nurses are actually paid, and further showed that all the available factual data shows that nurses are, on average, paid a lot more than the majority of people realise. Unfortunately, certain posters don't like the facts of the debate so resort to name calling and denial of the cold hard figures. As of yet, I have yet to see any 'pro pay rise' poster produce evidence that nurses are paid less than I have said.

Shefwedfan

lawred2 wrote: »

ye what?

43% of people living in Ireland have a degree?

really?

sounds high

The 2016 OECD report tracked the educational attainment levels of, among others, 23 EU countries, in 2015.
It found that, among 25-64 year-olds (post third-level, working-age adults):

• Ireland had the second-highest percentage (43%) with a third-level education, behind the UK (44%)
• The fourth-highest percentage (21%) with a Bachelor’s degree
• The 23rd-highest (fourth-lowest) percentage (8%) with a Master’s degree