Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

wrangler

Tell me how wrote: »

I'll take the figures from the department of finance which aren't questioned by the INMO secretary over a single point of reference thanks.

With the threat of Brexit, the performance of the HSE in the past, the attempted rip off that is the childrens hospital, it's hard to support this strike..
Conceding to these demands will cause an avalanche of demands, and quite frankly the tax payers have had enough.....where do we strike

Tell me how

wrangler wrote: »

With the threat of Brexit, the performance of the HSE in the past, the attempted rip off that is the childrens hospital, it's hard to support this strike..
Conceding to these demands will cause an avalanche of demands, and quite frankly the tax payers have had enough.....where do we strike

I just think that while some staff nurses are underpaid I think the money that is in the nurses paypot which results in the 57k average is sufficient for the training/demands/benefits.

I hate saying "I don't think they should get a separate deal outside the agreed public sector deal already in place" but the problem is in the structures which we have and the desire of the INMO to look for a 12% rise for all nurses.

wrangler

Tell me how wrote: »

I just think that while some staff nurses are underpaid I think the money that is in the nurses paypot which results in the 57k average is sufficient for the training/demands/benefits.

I hate saying "I don't think they should get a separate deal outside the agreed piblic sector deal already in place" but the problem is in the structures which we have and the desire of the INMO to look for a 12% rise for all nurses.

The economy is not over the hump by any means, and brexit is going to have a huge effect on the private sector, HSE costs have doubled in the last ten years with no extra beds and they're going to screw us again with the childrens hospital.
Health care is too important now to be left in the hands the public service

Teddy Daniels

The should get a pay rise but it should be absolute! Say 5 grand each because there is no reason in my mind why the nurses on 80 grand should get a 10 grand pay rise and the ones on 30 get less than 4.
It’s the ones on less that should get a bigger rise.

magentis

Love these threads.I can just picture some of the posters here left in a situation where they have to clean up someone that has defecated themselves.These nurses are worth their weight in gold.How many nurses is Mr Ross worth?

RHJ

magentis wrote: »

Love these threads.I can just picture some of the posters here left in a situation where they have to clean up someone that has defecated themselves.These nurses are worth their weight in gold.How many nurses is Mr Ross worth?

I thought that was mainly the job of health care assistants? Well at least according to what I've read from other posters here.

magentis

I suppose when we are grey and old we will find out.Hopefully a nurse will not leave us swimming in our own excrement if no such assistant is available.

Time will tell.

backspin.

I would say the Hospitals need more Healthcare Assistants rather than Nurses.

4ensic15

wrangler wrote: »

The economy is not over the hump by any means, and brexit is going to have a huge effect on the private sector, HSE costs have doubled in the last ten years with no extra beds and they're going to screw us again with the childrens hospital.
Health care is too important now to be left in the hands the public service

Why should nurses have to pay for other peoples mismanagement?

doolox

Nurses direct health care and deal with medications etc. Unless there is a medical reason to do so they do not clean up patients in their care. They are more like junior management.

I am 10 years dealing with nursing home people on a daily basis in a non medical role and this is what I see. Nurses deal with paperwork and patient care in an indirect way. Health care assistants do the physical lifting carrying and cleaning and catering assistants feed the patients. There are separate staff for laundry and cleaning and separate staff for activities and dealing with payments and financial matters with relatives.

There is not the same level of intimacy with care of people that there used to be. Nurses now only deal with very sick people if they deal with any clients at all. Once they are on routine medical regime the bulk of the work and minding is done by health care assistants.

TheRiverman

backspin. wrote: »

I would say the Hospitals need more Healthcare Assistants rather than Nurses.

The existing Healthcare Assistants should have a lot more responsibility.If a Healthcare Assistant makes a mistake the nurse is responsible.That is wrong.

TheRiverman

gctest50 wrote: »

Deserve a shotgun blast in the face if someone dies over this

The Moderator should ban you for a comment like that.

KaneToad

hawkelady wrote: »

I see that the nurse who posted her payslip online a few weeks ago will be interviewed on prime time tonight. Should set the record straight

Saw that. Looks like she is getting €41,600 (ish) gross a year. Excluding any overtime worked.

Life is too short to be working overtime though!

wrangler

4ensic15 wrote: »

Why should nurses have to pay for other peoples mismanagement?

And you know where the mismanagement is and you choose to ignore it, someone will have to take responsibility for calling a halt, this gravy train can't go on

Twenty Grand

KaneToad wrote: »

Saw that. Looks like she is getting €41,600 (ish) gross a year. Excluding any overtime worked.

Life is too short to be working overtime though!

Overtime isn't optional unfortunately.
If you're in the trenches with a patient you stay.

doolox

They are the eyes and ears on the ground floor of patient care. It does not men that they actually do the work but they need to supervise it in detail.

There is a move towards looking for similar registration of health care assistants in a similar way to the way nurses and doctors are answerable to an outside independent statuary body for their actions. They might need a licence to work if this comes about.

At the present time it is the nurses and doctors who carry the can if bad things happen to vulnerable people in their care.

An onerous load to carry in a job that is not well paid for the responsibilities it carries.

KaneToad

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Overtime isn't optional unfortunately.
If you're in the trenches with a patient you stay.

Well maybe that's what needs to be tackled.

Wheeliebin30

One question.

The government know they are unpopular not giving into the demands and will get hammered in the polls.

So why are they still not giving in?

Is it the case they know the money isn’t there?

wrangler

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Overtime isn't optional unfortunately.
If you're in the trenches with a patient you stay.

A nurse said during the week that you get time in lieu,

Wheeliebin30

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/review-states-no-exodus-of-nurses-while-pay-competitive-1.3570521%3fmode=amp

Review states no exodus of nurses, while pay competitive

Goldengirl

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

The should get a pay rise but it should be absolute! Say 5 grand each because there is no reason in my mind why the nurses on 80 grand should get a 10 grand pay rise and the ones on 30 get less than 4.
It’s the ones on less that should get a bigger rise.

While I don't agree with splitting into factions, nurse managers, assistant directors of nursing and Directors, are all paid on a different payscale to the regular staff nurse scale anyhow...so yes, a rise in pay for nurses does not mean a rise for these promotional grades, as the extra for experience and qualifications is meant to be built into their pay grade.
However you can't expect nurses to take on a role where they have a major increase in responsibility , and have to have certain extra qualifications, if they are not going to earn more than the senior staff nurses working on their unit, can you? That is like the civil service trying o entice senior consultants from the private sector, but with less pay .

Going to be controversial here. I work in the HSE as a pharmacist and I don't think nurses should be paid the same as me. On a pure financial level, I make savings multiple times of my salary, I switch regards to medicines management. I also make clinical decisions with regards to patients medications. I also have two masters which I had to do part time alongside work to get to my level. Nurses don't make the impact I do on a clinical level to be paid the same as me. I think a useful job development for nurses would be an advanced nurse practitioner role which possibly could enable to earn similar to me.

Twenty Grand

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Going to be controversial here. I work in the HSE as a pharmacist and I don't think nurses should be paid the same as me.

Not a criticism of your post but everyone believes their job is more difficult than other peoples.
Everyone thinks they've got it harder, or they work longer or better. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks they should be paid less for their work.

Damien360

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

One question.

The government know they are unpopular not giving into the demands and will get hammered in the polls.

So why are they still not giving in?

Is it the case they know the money isn’t there?

Brexit will suck up all money. If it goes tits up, prices will rise and people will need help. If the nurses get their money, it is just the tip of the iceberg, as a queue will already be forming for their slice of pie. The new hospital will be knocked on the head and you can imagine the **** storm if staff got paid and the capital plan gets shelved.

Twenty Grand

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Not a criticism of your post but everyone believes their job is more difficult than other peoples.
Everyone thinks they've got it harder, or they work longer or better. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks they should be paid less for their work.

I don't think I've got it harder. Just that I make more of an impact clinically on my patients than nurses do (albeit less patient facing)

Wheeliebin30

Damien360 wrote: »

Brexit will suck up all money. If it goes tits up, prices will rise and people will need help. If the nurses get their money, it is just the tip of the iceberg, as a queue will already be forming for their slice of pie. The new hospital will be knocked on the head and you can imagine the **** storm if staff got paid and the capital plan gets shelved.

So the government are doing it for the good of the country???

But don’t tell the INMO or Sinn Fein or any anti establishment numpty that.

Damien360

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

So the government are doing it for the good of the country???

But don’t tell the INMO or Sinn Fein or any anti establishment numpty that.

Not sure how you read that. There just isn't the money. And with the great unknown of Brexit, they would be reckless to have a giveaway budget for nurses.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think I've got it harder. Just that I make more of an impact clinically on my patients than nurses do (albeit less patient facing)

So you work 24/7 , 365 days a year?
You probably get bonuses every year?

Wheeliebin30

Damien360 wrote: »

Not sure how you read that. There just isn't the money. And with the great unknown of Brexit, they would be reckless to have a giveaway budget for nurses.

Exactly the money isn’t there so to give it now would be wreckless.

Ergo the government are doing the right thing in not giving money we don’t have, therefore not giving into populism.

Tell me how

Goldengirl wrote: »

While I don't agree with splitting into factions, nurse managers, assistant directors of nursing and Directors, are all paid on a different payscale to the regular staff nurse scale anyhow...so yes, a rise in pay for nurses does not mean a rise for these promotional grades, as the extra for experience and qualifications is meant to be built into their pay grade.
However you can't expect nurses to take on a role where they have a major increase in responsibility , and have to have certain extra qualifications, if they are not going to earn more than the senior staff nurses working on their unit, can you? That is like the civil service trying o entice senior consultants from the private sector, but with less pay .

Yes it does mean that if they are successful then all nurses in management roles will also get the payrise.

That is why the figure of 57k is relevant.

If it was just at an active on ward level, I would be in favour of their request, but it isn't.

vargoo

Damien360 wrote: »

Brexit will suck up all money. If it goes tits up, prices will rise and people will need help. If the nurses get their money, it is just the tip of the iceberg, as a queue will already be forming for their slice of pie. The new hospital will be knocked on the head and you can imagine the **** storm if staff got paid and the capital plan gets shelved.

Hospital should be shelved now, clearly something massive gone wrong there, price today was 1.7 billion.

If nurses had came out with a strike because of trolley waiting/unsafe/ had enough, it would have been good but, "we want more money" would they ever feck off. We've all been in with someone sick and see how handy they have it.

Twenty Grand

For anyone interested Thejournal just did a fact check on nurses wages: Factcheck: Are Irish nurses among the highest paid in the world? https://jrnl.ie/4463814

VERDICT
It is clear that the data available for nurses’ salaries contains so many variables that it is difficult to accurately compare them.

Some countries include a large cohort of non-professional and therefore lower paid workers in their numbers. Much of the data does not – and probably could never – take in the different overtime rate systems and specific allowances that exist in each of the healthcare systems.

And it is important to point out that the OECD data on nurses’ remuneration, which is frequently used as an indication of where Irish nurses fall on the scale, is not (by the OECD’s own admission) a reliable source.

We rate this claim: UNPROVEN

storker

vargoo wrote: »

Hospital should be shelved now, clearly something massive gone wrong there, price today was 1.7 billion.

If nurses had came out with a strike because of trolley waiting/unsafe/ had enough, it would have been good but, "we want more money" would they ever feck off. We've all been in with someone sick and see how handy they have it.

I've been in as a patient and I didn't see "how handy they have it"...what I did see was how hard they work, how professional they are and some of the sh1te they have to put up with.

Graces7

magentis wrote: »

Love these threads.I can just picture some of the posters here left in a situation where they have to clean up someone that has defecated themselves. "

Mothers do this all the time without pay and carers do it all the time with little financial reward. Time was nursing was about more than higher pay.

Always Tired

vargoo wrote: »

Hospital should be shelved now, clearly something massive gone wrong there, price today was 1.7 billion.

If nurses had came out with a strike because of trolley waiting/unsafe/ had enough, it would have been good but, "we want more money" would they ever feck off. We've all been in with someone sick and see how handy they have it.

yeah, i have a family member who is a psych nurse who just returned to work after having been off sick because a patient assaulted her, swinging punches at her head due to the patient being given a regular soft drink by the hospital staff instead of a diet one.

such a handy number like. all you need to do to get time off is allow a lunatic to bate the head off ya. we should all be signing up for this craic.

speedboatchase

Always Tired wrote: »

yeah, i have a family member who is a psych nurse who just returned to work after having been off sick because a patient assaulted her, swinging punches at her head due to the patient being given a regular soft drink by the hospital staff instead of a diet one.

such a handy number like. all you need to do to get time off is allow a lunatic to bate the head off ya. we should all be signing up for this craic.

Give her lots of money! She is now suddenly better at her job and deserves more money!

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

So you work 24/7 , 365 days a year?
You probably get bonuses every year?

In my old trust in Manchester, we did run a 24/7 pharmacy service. So a pharmacist was on site all the time. I could have to deal with anything from emergency TPN for newly born on NICU to making chemo for one of leukaemia patients. What are you talking about? Bonuses, there are no bonuses in the HSE/NHS.

Also what nurse works 365 days a year?

RacoonQueen

vargoo wrote: »

Hospital should be shelved now, clearly something massive gone wrong there, price today was 1.7 billion.

If nurses had came out with a strike because of trolley waiting/unsafe/ had enough, it would have been good but, "we want more money" would they ever feck off. We've all been in with someone sick and see how handy they have it.

I've been a patient, been in with patients and spent 5.5 years working in hospitals most of the time on wards and can tell you Nurses absolutely do not have it handy, far from it. People who've spent 30 minutes here and there observing a nurse and all of a sudden they know for a fact that nurses 'have it handy. There are so many different nursing roles out there too that don't all run to working solely on a ward.

FTA69

Solidarity with all the nurses and midwives today. Be sure to give an auld beep of support if you’re driving past!

wrangler

Deleted User wrote: »

In my old trust in Manchester, we did run a 24/7 pharmacy service. So a pharmacist was on site all the time. I could have to deal with anything from emergency TPN for newly born on NICU to making chemo for one of leukaemia patients. What are you talking about? Bonuses, there are no bonuses in the HSE/NHS.

Also what nurse works 365 days a year?

Doesn't matter if you work hard when you only have to do it for 38hrs/wk, There's 168hrs in a week, not exactly strangled are they.........is it four or six weeks off they get as well.
Plenty work a lot harder and a lot more hours for a lot less

Samuel Vimes

Graces7 wrote: »

magentis wrote: »

Love these threads.[B]I can just picture some of the posters here left in a situation where they have to clean up someone that has defecated themselves. "

Mothers do this all the time without pay and carers do it all the time with little financial reward. Time was nursing was about more than higher pay.

And Nurses dont do it at all, Health Care Assistants do-the real underpaid unsung heroes of the Hospitals!

FTA69

wrangler wrote: »

Doesn't matter if you work hard when you only have to do it for 38hrs/wk, There's 168hrs in a week, not exactly strangled are they.........is it four or six weeks off they get as well.
Plenty work a lot harder and a lot more hours for a lot less

Very, very few people have to put up with what a nurse does during a shift and guaranteed half of the people here dismissing the job’s difficulty wouldn’t last a day at it.

gctest50

Always Tired wrote: »

yeah, i have a family member who is a psych nurse who just returned to work after having been off sick because a patient assaulted her, swinging punches at her head due to the patient being given a regular soft drink by the hospital staff instead of a diet one.

such a handy number like. all you need to do to get time off is allow a lunatic to bate the head off ya. we should all be signing up for this craic.

Sounds like they were looking for a few days off

They gave the patient the wrong drink ? there's a lot missing out of that story

We've all seen what they're like :

speedboatchase

Of course the nurses will win. I saw someone on The Journal describe them as "angels on Earth". I honestly don't know why the nurses ever accept any pay demands for longer than a few years - the public will never think they are earning enough, so makes sense to keep demanding more. The level of support - where people readily admit being happy to pay higher taxes for them - is staggering.

speedboatchase

gctest50 wrote: »

Sounds like they were looking for a few days off

They gave the patient the wrong drink ? there's a lot missing out of that story

We've all seen what they're like :

The person who gave the wrong drink was obviously an overpaid TD!

wrangler

FTA69 wrote: »

Very, very few people have to put up with what a nurse does during a shift and guaranteed half of the people here dismissing the job’s difficulty wouldn’t last a day at it.

And plenty of nurses wouldn't work on a building site this morning and have to travel to a site wherever that might be this week. Everyone works hard, especially if they're getting €40000/yr.
The sad thing is that nurses will get arise because they're dealing with public servants that know that the repercussions of this will include them getting a rise too

Mitch Connor

gctest50 wrote: »

Sounds like they were looking for a few days off

They gave the patient the wrong drink ? there's a lot missing out of that story

We've all seen what they're like :

My wife was punched in the back, causing serious injury, just because the kid was frustrated that day.

You talk like rationality can be ascribed to a psyche patient during an episode.

gctest50

Mitch Connor wrote: »

My wife was punched in the back, causing serious injury, just because the kid was frustrated that day.

Again - there is a bit missing out of your story

What were the events leading up to that ?

Why didn't she "see it coming" and in good time

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You talk like rationality can be ascribed to a psyche patient during an episode.

hurr durr, that's why they are in a psyche ward

speedboatchase

Mitch Connor wrote: »

My wife was punched in the back, causing serious injury, just because the kid was frustrated that day.

You talk like rationality can be ascribed to a psyche patient during an episode.

Once we give your wife more money, this won't happen again? Or it'll be fine, because she has more money?

Not sure how we fix people getting punched.

road_high

Country can’t afford this- simple as. Couldn’t be worse timing really with such uncertainty in the economy right now