Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Inspector Coptoor

facehugger99 wrote: »

Well, my bullsh;t detector seems to be working fine.

Why do you resort to personal insults when you lose an argument?

So I lose an argument because you rolled your eyes 17 times?
That’s hilarious.

“Resort to”?
Such passive aggressive claptrap.
What if I take the roll eyes emoji as a “personal insult”?

Was there any need to use just emojis in a post?
Did you make a point? No.
Hardly adding to the debate in a constructive way.

If you get offended because someone calls you a clown on a discussion forum because you responded to a post with a string of emojis, I’d have to question your resilience

ItAintMeBabe

facehugger99 wrote: »

Even the Union mouthpiece RTE are reporting that cancer services are being canceled because of the unjustified strike action.

Is it too late to hope that common decency will outweigh personal greed?

Cancer services get cancelled daily because we have no staff to provide the services. Wake up. This is why we are striking.

facehugger99

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Cancer services get cancelled daily because we have no staff to provide the services. Wake up. This is why we are striking.

They are being canceled today because of the Nurse's actions.

Perhaps if salary levels weren't so high and working practices so antiquated in the PS, additional staff could be hired.

wrangler

WAS Talking to a nurse and on her protest supporters have stopped sending food to the front.
hallelujah
Bit ironic today having the nurses from 'james' on the News with the cranes in the background, rubbing more salt on our wounds eh

TheRiverman

alloywheel wrote: »

Is nurses pay a million miles removed from "the average civil servant".

Such an arrogant cheek to be striking today, when some people had appointments since last year etc.

What about all the appointments/surgeries cancelled since before Christmas in Orthopaedic Elective due to those wards closing and then reopening as medical wards and used as parking places for trollies so that the HSE figures for Emergency Departments would be shown to be down.The INMO always have the correct figures of patients on trollies because they include the patients who have been hidden away in Elective Orthopaedic wards,whereas the HSE don't.

ELM327

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Cancer services get cancelled daily because we have no staff to provide the services. Wake up. This is why we are striking.

So, there are not enough staff, lets withdraw what labour is available and inconvenience even more sick people?


Nothing wrong there at all.

Corruptedmorals

The HSE can't retain enough of any medical staff. A few years ago It was seen as crazy to have a 3 year outpatient waiting list and now they all are or worse despite efforts to validate waiting lists and run out-of-hours clinics. We don't have near enough doctors or consultants and every week there are plenty being rescheduled that have nothing to do with the strike. Lots of our newly trained doctors heading abroad which is no surprise given how bad conditions are for them here.

TheRiverman

wrangler wrote: »

WAS Talking to a nurse and on her protest supporters have stopped sending food to the front.
hallelujah
Bit ironic today having the nurses from 'james' on the News with the cranes in the background, rubbing more salt on our wounds eh

Very expensive cranes in the background.

pirlo80

Some excellent insights from 2 INMO nurses on the No Shame Podcast today - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6v-c83ySsA

1641

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

1. I don’t know the average figure.
Even if I did averages are meaningless.
A median figure would be more representative.

2. As far as I know, the spouse/children pension only applies if you die in service.
Open to correction on that.

3. Not what I was suggesting at all.
It’s disingenuous to suggest that all public sector workers have these magic pension pots accumulating.
These pensions are paid out of current taxation, not in a pension pot like a PRSA.

Also - the contributory pension is now included in a public sector workers pension

1. If you want to be pedantic, it would be the mean rather than the median that would be used to calculate the cost of such a pension.
2.Well, I can assure you that you are wrong. If a public servant pensioner dies, there is a survivor's/spouse's pension (separate from PRSI widow's pension).Something for you (or your OH) to look forward to?:)

3 Indeed they are paid out of current taxation - not a pension pot. This does not alter the cost of the pension or the value of the pension.
Don't forget that the pension is index linked in some way.I dont know how this works in the Single Scheme but for pre-2012 people it is linked to the salary of the position the person had at retirement. So effectively inflation -proofed. Figure that into your calculations.

wrangler

Only a small percentage of nurses get the flu vaccine, Talk about a guaranteed week off.
We'll try to get the flu in the busiest week in the year, Great plan. I've had to work through the flu, would never again face into the winter without the vaccine now.

wrangler

TheRiverman wrote: »

Very expensive cranes in the background.

Deffo

Tell me how

wrangler wrote: »

Only a small percentage of nurses get the flu vaccine, Talk about a guaranteed week off.
We'll try to get the flu in the busiest week in the year, Great plan. I've had to work through the flu, would never again face into the winter without the vaccine now.

How do you know only a small percentage get it?

Are you seriously suggesting people would rather be sick for a week with the flu than go to work?

Somebody working in any profession could do they same if they were that way inclined.

Rossi IRL

Who came up with the "Same time in college same pay" argument I have been hearing on the radio all day.

Seems a stupid argument considering points needed are varied from course to course.

1641

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

1 Cancer services get cancelled daily because we have no staff to provide the services.

2 This is why we are striking.

1 Services get cancelled every day because the HSE is an over-expensive shambles.
2 Oh - so its not for money across the board? My mistake.:rolleyes:

ELM327

1641 wrote: »

1 Services get cancelled every day because the HSE is an over-expensive shambles.
2 Oh - so its not for money across the board? My mistake.:rolleyes:

+1


How does paying the same nurses more money solve anything?
If anything it makes the situation worse for patients as there's less in the "current /opex" budget to hire more nurses!!

eagle eye

wrangler wrote:

I would agree on the holidays, they seem to be away all the time, heard of some one had three years sick leave taken as well, how that's worked I don't know. 3 twelve hour shifts isn't much when you get four days off after, half the commuting as well. The people in the HSE that I know get six weeks holidays, are nurses the same, there's no hardship in those conditions I have two months in the year where I have to work seven shifts a week and they're more than 12 hours......just part of the job

Do you work weekends, nights, until late at night? Do you have bank holidays off?
Are you able to plan your holidays six months in advance? Do you deal with sick people, troubled people, psychiatric cases, criminals?
The above is not a complete list of what nurses have to deal with but it's some of things they definitely deal with.

Ginger83

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Cancer services get cancelled daily because we have no staff to provide the services. Wake up. This is why we are striking.

Why won't ye withdraw all services to hurry this along?

wrangler

Tell me how wrote: »

How do you know only a small percentage get it?

Are you seriously suggesting people would rather be sick for a week with the flu than go to work?

Somebody working in any profession could do they same if they were that way inclined.

https://www.thejournal.ie/nurses-flu-jab-3786843-Jan2018/
There wouldn't be any profession that'd be so expose to it, haw many patients come in at the busiest time of the year with flu related illness, It's guaranteed that they'll be infected.
Irresponsible when they're so short staffed , you couldn't make it up

Inspector Coptoor

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Who came up with the "Same time in college same pay" argument I have been hearing on the radio all day.

Seems a stupid argument considering points needed are varied from course to course.

Points are calculated on a supply and demand basis, not on academic ability.
A level 8 degree is a level 8 degree, regardless of points required for entry.


There is one radiography course in ireland in UCD.
That’s why points are over 500.
Students who get offered radiography now and qualify are leaving in fairly large numbers to go back and do medicine through the GAMSAT route.
Shortage of radiographers is coming now too

facehugger99

ELM327 wrote: »

+1


How does paying the same nurses more money solve anything?
If anything it makes the situation worse for patients as there's less in the "current /opex" budget to hire more nurses!!

I presume they believe the money-trees can be harvested for the extra cash.

Inspector Coptoor

1641 wrote: »

1. If you want to be pedantic, it would be the mean rather than the median that would be used to calculate the cost of such a pension.
2.Well, I can assure you that you are wrong. If a public servant pensioner dies, there is a survivor's/spouse's pension (separate from PRSI widow's pension).Something for you (or your OH) to look forward to?:)

3 Indeed they are paid out of current taxation - not a pension pot. This does not alter the cost of the pension or the value of the pension.
Don't forget that the pension is index linked in some way.I dont know how this works in the Single Scheme but for pre-2012 people it is linked to the salary of the position the person had at retirement. So effectively inflation -proofed. Figure that into your calculations.

On point 2, that’s potentially good to know as my spouse is a public sector worker.

I was a public sector worker.
I work as a teacher but am privately paid and pay into my own private pension and have done for years.

I’m still a member of a trade union & still support the nurses.

alloywheel

Its so sad to see patients and taxpayers sob over vital appointments being cancelled and the reason being the extraordinary high rate of absenteeism in the HSE, poor organisation, too much admin staff and the greed of nurses striking for even more pay.

wrangler

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you work weekends, nights, until late at night? Do you have bank holidays off?
Are you able to plan your holidays six months in advance? Do you deal with sick people, troubled people, psychiatric cases, criminals?
The above is not a complete list of what nurses have to deal with but it's some of things they definitely deal with.

I'd do two months of twelve hour plus shifts at a min every year, what are bank holidays, or holidays for that matter, but it's the career I chose and signed up for. whatever they do is for only forty hours in every week.
Self employed work hard

ItAintMeBabe

alloywheel wrote: »

Its so sad to see patients and taxpayers sob over vital appointments being cancelled and the reason being the extraordinary high rate of absenteeism in the HSE, poor organisation, too much admin staff and the greed of nurses striking for even more pay.

I am genuinely baffled as to where this "greed" notion is coming from. Do you have any idea what nurses deal with on a day to day basis? Have you seen for yourself how patients are suffering due to staff shortages? We have no nurses because the pay is shockingly poor.

I have friends who have emigrated and are dying to come home but can't afford to do so because the wages are so poor.

Better pay will equal more nurses. The vacancies will be filled. We will have more staff on the floor meaning a massive difference go the levels of care we can deliver.

I really hope sickness never darkens your door and you're landed in A&E with a "greedy" nurse, who will be ran of his or her feet trying to provide you with the highest level of care possible but unable to do so.

ItAintMeBabe

wrangler wrote: »

I'd do two months of twelve hour plus shifts at a min every year, what are bank holidays, or holidays for that matter, but it's the career I chose and signed up for. whatever they do is for only forty hours in every week.
Self employed work hard

I have been self employed, I am now a nurse. Being self employed was one of the toughest jobs I ever had, no doubt, but I never had somebody's life in my hands.

Mad_maxx

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

I am genuinely baffled as to where this "greed" notion is coming from. Do you have any idea what nurses deal with on a day to day basis? Have you seen for yourself how patients are suffering due to staff shortages? We have no nurses because the pay is shockingly poor.

I have friends who have emigrated and are dying to come home but can't afford to do so because the wages are so poor.

Better pay will equal more nurses. The vacancies will be filled. We will have more staff on the floor meaning a massive difference go the levels of care we can deliver.

I really hope sickness never darkens your door and you're landed in A&E with a "greedy" nurse, who will be ran of his or her feet trying to provide you with the highest level of care possible but unable to do so.

Do you think if you parrot some union propogandist ( nurses are poorly paid) enough, that lie will become truth?

facehugger99

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Better pay will equal more nurses. The vacancies will be filled. We will have more staff on the floor meaning a massive difference go the levels of care we can deliver.

You do realize that exchequer funding is a finite resource?

We’re €200 billion in debt and running a deficit and you think paying even more, on top of the generous pay and pensions we already fund, will equal more staff?

Jesus they should teach a bit of basic maths with the nursing degree.

Mad_maxx

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

The HSE can't retain enough of any medical staff. A few years ago It was seen as crazy to have a 3 year outpatient waiting list and now they all are or worse despite efforts to validate waiting lists and run out-of-hours clinics. We don't have near enough doctors or consultants and every week there are plenty being rescheduled that have nothing to do with the strike. Lots of our newly trained doctors heading abroad which is no surprise given how bad conditions are for them here.

They get a doctor education free and get to sell their valuable skills overseas, my heart bleeds

Mad_maxx

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes. They should join a Union and demand better.

That would mean having an even bigger money tree

ItAintMeBabe

facehugger99 wrote: »

You do realize that exchequer funding is a finite resource?

We’re €200 billion in debt and running a deficit and you think paying even more, on top of the generous pay and pensions we already fund, will equal more staff?

Jesus they should teach a bit of basic maths with the nursing degree.

My maths is fine, I spend a large portion of my day calculating doses and drawing up vital drugs. Thank you.

I could argue with you here but I won't even bother, I can see your blue shirt a mile away, it'll be pointless. As I said to the poster above, I hope sickness never darkens your door and you have to be cared for under our current conditions.

wrangler

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

I have been self employed, I am now a nurse. Being self employed was one of the toughest jobs I ever had, no doubt, but I never had somebody's life in my hands.

My patents are animals..... difference to your patients is that mine cost money.
Animal or human all you can do is your best, **** happens,
I get up at 5am every morning for the two mths but if there's a little soul being born at 10 pm that night, I'm there too

ItAintMeBabe

wrangler wrote: »

My patents are animals..... difference to your patients is that mine cost money.
Animal or human all you can do is your best, **** happens,
I get up at 5am every morning for the two mths but if there's a little soul being born at 10 pm that night, I'm there too

You are, and it is awful if anything happens that poor soul, but is there a funeral? Is there loved ones sitting in a waiting room to be told they have lost their family member? Is there preparing bodies, phoning coroners? Is there 40 other patients who need urgent care, possibly to save their lives?

I am not in any way belittling your job and I absolutely do not think for a second that you don't work hard, but if you want to equate what we both do like you have above, then I will gladly take all the grants and subsidies a farmer is entitled to to go along with my 14 Euro an hour.

ItAintMeBabe

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Do you think if you parrot some union propogandist ( nurses are poorly paid) enough, that lie will become truth?

I am speaking about what I have seen first hand myself, on weekly basis. Where are your opinions coming from?? What are they based on? Because I'm just seeing aggression and "I'm right and you're wrong" mentality from you.

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

We spend the most on our healthcare in the Eu.

Why can’t we question this instead of throwing more money at it?

Simple question.

facehugger99

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

My maths is fine, I spend a large portion of my day calculating doses and drawing up vital drugs. Thank you.

I could argue with you here but I won't even bother, I can see your blue shirt a mile away, it'll be pointless. As I said to the poster above, I hope sickness never darkens your door and you have to be cared for under our current conditions.

It's true, if you had to back up your 'give me more money' arguments using such inconveniences as 'facts' and 'figures', I can imagine how much more difficult it would be.

James Brown

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes. They should join a Union and demand better.

I wish the tax payers had a union. The government certainly don't like to get involved on our behalf just try turn the public against, people on welfare, renters, nurses etc. depending on the season.

Maybe the nurses can put their salaries in as a tender, skys the limit seemingly.

Mrsmum

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

I am genuinely baffled as to where this "greed" notion is coming from. Do you have any idea what nurses deal with on a day to day basis? Have you seen for yourself how patients are suffering due to staff shortages? We have no nurses because the pay is shockingly poor.

I have friends who have emigrated and are dying to come home but can't afford to do so because the wages are so poor.

Better pay will equal more nurses. The vacancies will be filled. We will have more staff on the floor meaning a massive difference go the levels of care we can deliver.

I really hope sickness never darkens your door and you're landed in A&E with a "greedy" nurse, who will be ran of his or her feet trying to provide you with the highest level of care possible but unable to do so.

This, that Irish nurses are poorly paid, has been measured and found to be untrue. They are actually second highest regarding pay. But from listening to nurses speaking on the media I think really the problem is nurses are not actually comparing their pay to other nurses at the same grade across the world, instead some of them are hearing of better lifestyles abroad and almost looking for compensation that they themselves due to family commitments or whatever are stuck here and some of them are comparing their pay to physiotherapists etc which is a totally new ballgame. Are all degrees supposed to be the same nowadays.

Martina1991

This might be a stupid question but why is the pay increase they’re looking for 12%, why not 5 or 7 and see if this will entice new graduates to stay?

Would the pay increase just apply to basic staff nurses or would it apply to all the others like Clinical Nurse/Midwife Manager, Nurse Tutor, Public Health Nurse, Advanced Nurse Practitioner, Director of Nursing/Matron etc? Because all of those other titles and roles have excellent salaries.

I would support the increase if it only applied to the basic staff nurse salary.

ItAintMeBabe

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Simple question.

I don't know who you're asking this to, but you're absolutely right, it should be questioned.

But, front line staff are on our knees, money has not and is not being used add resources for us. I can name at least ten people off the top of my best in my area who are management positions, will say themselves how handy a number it is, and are laughing all the way to the bank. This is the problem. Not a 12% restoration to attract more staff and keep the ones we have.

wrangler

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

You are, and it is awful if anything happens that poor soul, but is there a funeral? Is there loved ones sitting in a waiting room to be told they have lost their family member? Is there preparing bodies, phoning coroners? Is there 40 other patients who need urgent care, possibly to save their lives?

I am not in any way belittling your job and I absolutely do not think for a second that you don't work hard, but if you want to equate what we both do like you have above, then I will gladly take all the grants and subsidies a farmer is entitled to to go along with my 14 Euro an hour.

Something radically wrong in the HSE and you know it, very hard to be taxed to keep shovellling money at it and still have to pay health insurance as well to ensure health care for myself. I'm at an age now where I have friends on waiting lists and that really annoys me when I see them in pain.

James Brown

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

We spend the most on our healthcare in the Eu.

Why can’t we question this instead of throwing more money at it?

Completely agree.
Not related to the Nurses or midwives looking for a raise mind.

ItAintMeBabe

Mrsmum wrote: »

This, that Irish nurses are poorly paid, has been measured and found to be untrue. They are actually second highest regarding pay. But from listening to nurses speaking on the media I think really the problem is nurses are not actually comparing their pay to other nurses at the same grade across the world, instead some of them are hearing of better lifestyles abroad and almost looking for compensation that they themselves due to family commitments or whatever are stuck here and some of them are comparing their pay to physiotherapists etc which is a totally new ballgame. Are all degrees supposed to be the same nowadays.

The RTE figures I have seen related to this have shown we are paid much the same etc. as certain other countries failed to compare the cost of living in these countries. Cost of living here at present has spiralled and it's becoming impossible to sustain and quality of life with the way things are.

Patrick2010

Nurse on 6.01 news just now saying she’s paid just above minimum wage and could earn as much in a supermarket.

facehugger99

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Nurse on 6.01 news just now saying she’s paid just above minimum wage and could earn as much in a supermarket.

Keep repeating a lie enough until it becomes the truth.

ItAintMeBabe

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Nurse on 6.01 news just now saying she’s paid just above minimum wage and could earn as much in a supermarket.

She's right. I'm paid 14 Euro an hour before tax. I could work in Aldi for 11.50 an hour for work which is considered unskilled and responsibility levels cannot be compared.

ItAintMeBabe

wrangler wrote: »

Something radically wrong in the HSE and you know it, very hard to be taxed to keep shovellling money at it and still have to pay health insurance as well to ensure health care for myself. I'm at an age now where I have friends on waiting lists and that really annoys me when I see them in pain.

What point are you trying to make here?

Something is drastically wrong in the HSE, nobody is arguing that?

I also have to pay health insurance?

tayto lover

Mad_maxx wrote: »

That would mean having an even bigger money tree

You’ll get very little without one. I’ve been there.

James Brown

facehugger99 wrote: »

Keep repeating a lie enough until it becomes the truth.

Like the 52k?

Patrick2010

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

She's right. I'm paid 14 Euro an hour before tax. I could work in Aldi for 11.50 an hour for work which is considered unskilled and responsibility levels cannot be compared.

What does that work out per annum?