Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Cbumkin

Should nurses get their pay rise ?

No! If they do, the IMPACT trade union (representing allied health professionals) will be on strike next. Then the teachers, the civil servants, and every other cohort of public sector worker feeding from the trough.

The problem of recruitment and retention is not as simple as the INMO and PNA would suggest. Recruitment and retention problems became inevitable when Nursing became a 4 year degree programme. The system is producing a highly educated, ambitious, workforce who are impatient to climb the career ladder. Nursing graduates are not content to spend anything more than a few years working at staff nurse level....which is where the need is at the greatest. Nurses have SO many opportunities for career advancement both within and outside the profession, that they are not going to hang around working on a ward for 10 or 15 years. The majority of young graduates today want to get up that ladder fast. From my knowledge of working as a nurse I would think that there is a greater proportion of nurses with Masters Degrees than in most other professions. Education has become a gravy train and it is one of the biggest reasons why there is a shortage of staff within the service.

Tell me how

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Fair enough on the first point.

On the second, Ireland and every other country is in serious trouble when recruiting healthcare professionals.
I think we as a country need to seriously examine nursing and place massive incentives in place to encourage students to enter the profession.

This will undoubtedly be financial.

Regarding the suggestion to simply increase starting wages, you just end up compressing the wage bands, which leads to less financial reward for time served.

It's a chicken and egg situation.

Can't get the nurses to improve conditions
Can't encourage people into nursing until conditions improve.

Maybe it is that nurses are truly deserving of more money. unfortunately though, if they get it, they will trigger claims from other professions as people will not feel comfortable having lost what was some form of distinction between their role and that of nursing as well as thinking well they way to progress is to shout louder.

On recruiting healthcare professionals worldwide, I do agree that it is problem, but I don't understand how our budget as increased by so much in a short space of time and yet we are now saying that it has to go further.

Everyone says the HSE needs to change, no one wants their area to be one that changes. It's all well and good nurses saying that the money could be found from within the existing healthcare budget, but can they tell us specifically where it is being wasted? That is what I think needs to happen. There are two many groups eager to paint the government as the bad man but not being willing to have a light shone on their practices.

Martina1991

Twenty Grand wrote:

Regarding the suggestion to simply increase starting wages, you just end up compressing the wage bands, which leads to less financial reward for time served.

Would less points on a pay scale not be better? To be on more money quicker and not have to work for 15+years to reach the top of the scale.

beejee

I'll crosspost from the impending ambulance strike thread.

Medical staff, with a broad brush, are getting paid at, or above, average wage.

They don't want more money for the sake of it, they need more money to keep up with the runaway inflation in the country. They luckily have a gigantic union behind them whereas most people don't.

This isn't going to work out. Paying more money is akin to chugging more and more coal into a train furnace while simultaneously hoping it slows down because youre running out of coal. This is nonsense. Its barking mad.

To be clear, it isn't wages that's the problem, its the costs of this country. But all attention shall be focused on wages until the train comes hurtling off the tracks. Again.

earlyevening

beejee wrote: »

They don't want more money for the sake of it, they need more money to keep up with the runaway inflation in the country. They luckily have a gigantic union behind them whereas most people don't.

To be clear, it isn't wages that's the problem, its the costs of this country. But all attention shall be focused on wages until the train comes hurtling off the tracks. Again.

https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/inflation-cpi
Ireland's annual inflation rate picked up to 0.7 percent in December 2018 from a five-month low of 0.6 percent in the previous month

namloc1980

beejee wrote: »

I'll crosspost from the impending ambulance strike thread.

Medical staff, with a broad brush, are getting paid at, or above, average wage.

They don't want more money for the sake of it, they need more money to keep up with the runaway inflation in the country. They luckily have a gigantic union behind them whereas most people don't.

This isn't going to work out. Paying more money is akin to chugging more and more coal into a train furnace while simultaneously hoping it slows down because youre running out of coal. This is nonsense. Its barking mad.

To be clear, it isn't wages that's the problem, its the costs of this country. But all attention shall be focused on wages until the train comes hurtling off the tracks. Again.

Runaway inflation??? You must've confused Ireland for Zimbabwe or Venezuela.

beejee

earlyevening wrote: »

https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/inflation-cpi
Ireland's annual inflation rate picked up to 0.7 percent in December 2018 from a five-month low of 0.6 percent in the previous month

No matter what way you cut it, this country in its entirety is spending more than it earns, with a ratio something along the lines of 100% +

Stick your finger in the air and everything is going up in price, while falling apart. Nurses strikes and the new hospital, housing costs, vat increases, Brexit impacts, eu impacts, fictitious corporation taxes, cost of a sandwich, insurance, decreasing stability etc. If this is as good as it gets, we are going to come crashing down hard. Maximum exposure, that will cut through us like a fat child through cake :P

Whats the point of giving someone an extra 100 euro a year, when in a years time overall costs are going to be 200 euro extra? Its not going to work out, not a snowballs chance in hell. Expect more and more strikes and protests coming out of the woodwork by years end.

beejee

namloc1980 wrote: »

Runaway inflation??? You must've confused Ireland for Zimbabwe or Venezuela.

"inflation" wasn't necessarily the best choice of word. Its very easy to hide behind some statistics, especially this country. Just look around, that's all you need do.

earlyevening

beejee wrote: »

No matter what way you cut it, this country in its entirety is spending more than it earns, with a ratio something along the lines of 100% +

Stick your finger in the air and everything is going up in price, while falling apart. Nurses strikes and the new hospital, housing costs, vat increases, Brexit impacts, eu impacts, fictitious corporation taxes, cost of a sandwich, insurance, decreasing stability etc. If this is as good as it gets, we are going to come crashing down hard. Maximum exposure, that will cut through us like a fat child through cake :P

Whats the point of giving someone an extra 100 euro a year, when in a years time overall costs are going to be 200 euro extra? Its not going to work out, not a snowballs chance in hell. Expect more and more strikes and protests coming out of the woodwork by years end.

Inflation will be be caused by increasing salaries - you want to review the basic fundamentals of economics

backspin.

earlyevening wrote: »

https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/inflation-cpi
Ireland's annual inflation rate picked up to 0.7 percent in December 2018 from a five-month low of 0.6 percent in the previous month

The cost of housing is a big problem, especially for the under 40's.

beejee

earlyevening wrote: »

Inflation will be be caused by increasing salaries - you want to review the basic fundamentals of economics

Here is THE fundamental of economics: You spend more than you make = trouble.

Every other sub-division is a spongy, malleable statistic to twist.

BarryD2

Seanachai wrote: »

I've never worked in the public sector, but even the poorest people I knew from previous generations could look forward to the prospect of having some kind of housing of their own. The health system was also fit for purpose. When the state continues to disregard the basic needs that we've entrusted it with providing in return for our taxes, cooperation etc, when do we kick back?

Kick away, but know that you are the cash cow. Sure give the INMO their extra €300M annually or double that or more with consequent pay rises for other grades. They'll be grand. But you may 1) expect there to be cuts elsewhere, try slashing that off the social housing budget and you'll hear the howls and/ or 2) are you happy to pony up lots of extra tax?

There's no free lunch here. Someone's gonna pay for it.

And at end of the day, the extra spend will make the hiring of more nurses difficult, so the safety argument is meaningless.

alloywheel

beejee wrote: »

Here is THE fundamental of economics: You spend more than you make = trouble.

And the nurses employer the government, has been spending more than they make, much more, hence the reason the national debt has increased to approx 200 BILLION.

No way can the government be blackmailed in to paying even higher pay to nurses when it has been shown their pay and pensions are among some of the highest in the world.

CiarraiAbu2

Are their wages been deducted while they are on strike, would seem nearly impossible for the amount on strike.

hawkelady

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

Are their wages been deducted while they are on strike, would seem nearly impossible for the amount on strike.

Yes , of course.

beejee

BarryD2 wrote: »

Kick away, but know that you are the cash cow. Sure give the INMO their extra €300M annually or double that or more with consequent pay rises for other grades. They'll be grand. But you may 1) expect there to be cuts elsewhere, try slashing that off the social housing budget and you'll hear the howls and/ or 2) are you happy to pony up lots of extra tax?

There's no free lunch here. Someone's gonna pay for it.

And at end of the day, the extra spend will make the hiring of more nurses difficult, so the safety argument is meaningless.

I understand where youre coming from, but I think you are making the greatest mistake ie assuming nothing changes.

People do it all the time, think linearly. The one key phrase for all this is "timing"

Heres bad timing for you: trying to build housing when record prices are being set each day for property. Do it when you have record numbers of people entering the country. Building a hospital with record property prices everywhere. Giving pay increases to huge numbers of people, when its only going to be devoured by record costs. Getting a gigantic loan for a very, very long time when at record prices, whether for cars, holidays or housing. Just a few easy examples of laughably bad "timing", while also having the benefit of eliminating all and any savings you are trying to put away as a country/individual.

The problem, of course, is that "we" do things backwards here. These are supposed to be the good times, yet we aren't saving a bean for the future. That's why this crap is cyclical, constantly tripping from one crisis into another, over and over again.

Anyone with a head on their shoulders could see this coming 15 years ago.

So heres an alternative: Halt the hospital right now. Recoup as much money as possible. Stick it in a bomb-proof savings box, add to it regularly. Everything is going to economically explode sooner rather than later. Let it happen. Let everything sink into the ground, pull your fat wad of cash and get 10 times the value of it and build a hospital several magnitudes better and larger.

A single euro has had vastly different buying power even within the last 15 years. This country is a "buy high, sell low" kind of person. How much of the country was bought up by foreign interests during the last cycle? It really is as easy that, no matter what anyone moans about, its that simple.

beejee

alloywheel wrote: »

And the nurses employer the government, has been spending more than they make, much more, hence the reason the national debt has increased to approx 200 BILLION.

No way can the government be blackmailed in to paying even higher pay to nurses when it has been shown their pay and pensions are among some of the highest in the world.

This is more or less my point. This is doomed. Theres no way this country is going to crawl out of this situation. This nursing strike is indicator number 5'343 so far, and we haven't even hit the juicy stuff yet.

Wheeliebin30

beejee wrote: »

I understand where youre coming from, but I think you are making the greatest mistake ie assuming nothing changes.

People do it all the time, think linearly. The one key phrase for all this is "timing"

Heres bad timing for you: trying to build housing when record prices are being set each day for property. Do it when you have record numbers of people entering the country. Building a hospital with record property prices everywhere. Giving pay increases to huge numbers of people, when its only going to be devoured by record costs. Getting a gigantic loan for a very, very long time when at record prices, whether for cars, holidays or housing. Just a few easy examples of laughably bad "timing", while also having the benefit of eliminating all and any savings you are trying to put away as a country/individual.

The problem, of course, is that "we" do things backwards here. These are supposed to be the good times, yet we aren't saving a bean for the future. That's why this crap is cyclical, constantly tripping from one crisis into another, over and over again.

Anyone with a head on their shoulders could see this coming 15 years ago.

So heres an alternative: Halt the hospital right now. Recoup as much money as possible. Stick it in a bomb-proof savings box, add to it regularly. Everything is going to economically explode sooner rather than later. Let it happen. Let everything sink into the ground, pull your fat wad of cash and get 10 times the value of it and build a hospital several magnitudes better and larger.

A single euro has had vastly different buying power even within the last 15 years. This country is a "buy high, sell low" kind of person. How much of the country was bought up by foreign interests during the last cycle? It really is as easy that, no matter what anyone moans about, its that simple.

In fairness we put away a rainy day fund last year for the future.

beejee

beejee wrote: »

.....

Anyone with a head on their shoulders could see this coming 15 years ago.

...

What could you see in 2004 exactly?
A bust....recovery & a nursing strike when house prices were high again in 2019?
Bullsheet

BTW...economics 101....run away from any cnut suggesting they can time markets....pure sign of a clueless w@nker

beejee

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

In fairness we put away a rainy day fund last year for the future.

I.O.U's don't count :P Even assuming that they did put away a sufficient amount of money (no way they did), they are still "buying high" now, to inevitably "sell low" later.

alloywheel

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

In fairness we put away a rainy day fund last year for the future.

The rainy day fund would only pay nurses pensions for a month, not pay back the 200 billlion plus interest the country owes.

beejee

Augeo wrote: »

What could you see in 2004 exactly?
A bust....recovery & a nursing strike when house prices were high again in 2019?
Bullsheet

BTW...economics 101....run away from any cnut suggesting they can time markets....pure sign of a clueless w@nker

No, not bullsheet at all.

Its not about timing markets down to the second. You can be as lazy as time it down to the blooming year or two :P

Do you seriously think, genuinely, that everyone lost money when everyone else lost money, and vice versa? You need to be crazy to believe that. There are entities and individuals who make absolute killings at the expense of everyone else being morons. Look at all the vulture funds who swooped in the country when it was on its knees, how clever did you have to be to see this place was ripe for the plucking? Not very, is the answer.

Its not some genius mind that can only do it! Its as simple as self-awareness, awareness of your environment. You can make a lot of money in good times, but generational wealth is made during "bad" times.

Any clown that is heavily investing their time/lives/efforts on the current state of affairs?! Good luck!

Its not "timing the markets", its just plain old common sense.

mad muffin

What exactly do people think is going to happen if the nurses go back to work without an agreement?

Will it be all sunshine and lollipops?

All of a sudden people will be getting letters to come in for their procedures?

Waiting lists will be greatly reduced?

What exactly?

Okays so they come to some agreement where they slightly increase the pay for new nurses to entice people to go into nursing.

They get their nursing degree and are then headhunted by countries with better pay and conditions. Australia. Canada. UAE. Saudi.

Back to square one.

They need to make sure that people going into nursing and in nursing want to stay in Ireland. Because nurses are needed worldwide and there are many countries that will have our nurses.

tretorn

Plenty of people go into nursing with the idea that they will do something else in the future, eg go into business like sale of pharmaceuticals or even go from nursing into Physio therapy as a mature student.

This will happen regardless of salary and so will nurses travelling to Dubai and Australia, who in their early twenties wants to settle down to life in Ireland when there are opportunities to travel and see the world.

beejee

mad muffin wrote: »

What exactly do people think is going to happen if the nurses go back to work without an agreement?

Will it be all sunshine and lollipops?

All of a sudden people will be getting letters to come in for their procedures?

Waiting lists will be greatly reduced?

What exactly?

Okays so they come to some agreement where they slightly increase the pay for new nurses to entice people to go into nursing.

They get their nursing degree and are then headhunted by countries with better pay and conditions. Australia. Canada. UAE. Saudi.

Back to square one.

They need to make sure that people going into nursing and in nursing want to stay in Ireland. Because nurses are needed worldwide and there are many countries that will have our nurses.

That's just it, its all linear thought.

"this is going well, therefore it will go well forever. Lets build our entire future on this prediction and ignore all the warning sirens getting ever louder (nevermind basic mathematics)."

Why not throw the nurses 10 times their wage? All we do in this country is play pretend with finances and planning. Whether 10 times more or 10 times less, this system is going to crash.

Gael23

Will be interesting to see what happens when public opinion eventually turns against the nurses, and that will soon happen

Wheeliebin30

Gael23 wrote: »

Will be interesting to see what happens when public opinion eventually turns against the nurses, and that will soon happen

Doubt it.

People read Facebook pages and twitter who spout lies in support of anything against the government.

Prime example- water meters give you cancer.

Tell me how

mad muffin wrote: »

What exactly do people think is going to happen if the nurses go back to work without an agreement?

Will it be all sunshine and lollipops?

All of a sudden people will be getting letters to come in for their procedures?

Waiting lists will be greatly reduced?

What exactly?

Okays so they come to some agreement where they slightly increase the pay for new nurses to entice people to go into nursing.

They get their nursing degree and are then headhunted by countries with better pay and conditions. Australia. Canada. UAE. Saudi.

Back to square one.

They need to make sure that people going into nursing and in nursing want to stay in Ireland. Because nurses are needed worldwide and there are many countries that will have our nurses.

If they go back to work without an agreement, it will not be any better immediately, in fact the problems will be compounded with trying to make up for lost days and with a disgruntled workforce.

But, hopefully, it will have helped to focus minds that improvements have to be made and solutions have to be suggested, beyond just a 12% pay rise.

As I said previously, maybe nurses will suggest changes in practice or structure which will help improve the situation. Or maybe someone else will suggest them and there will be less of an argument that they cannot work.

Gael23

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Doubt it.

People read Facebook pages and twitter who spout lies in support of anything against the government.

Prime example- water meters give you cancer.

The more operations and appointments are cancelled the greater public anger will grow

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Prime example- water meters give you cancer.

They do if you eat enough of them!

beejee

beejee wrote: »

No, not bullsheet at all.

Its not about timing markets down to the second. You can be as lazy as time it down to the blooming year or two :P

Do you seriously think, genuinely, that everyone lost money when everyone else lost money, and vice versa? You need to be crazy to believe that. There are entities and individuals who make absolute killings at the expense of everyone else being morons. Look at all the vulture funds who swooped in the country when it was on its knees, how clever did you have to be to see this place was ripe for the plucking? Not very, is the answer.

Its not some genius mind that can only do it! Its as simple as self-awareness, awareness of your environment. You can make a lot of money in good times, but generational wealth is made during "bad" times.

Any clown that is heavily investing their time/lives/efforts on the current state of affairs?! Good luck!

Its not "timing the markets", its just plain old common sense.

Vulture funds bought well off the low point pricewise, they weren't buying 08 to 12.
You're a hindsight spoofer.
Again...15 years ago who saw what coming?
And you are now forecasting some kind of recession imminently I take it?

beejee

Augeo wrote: »

Vulture funds bought well off the low point pricewise, they weren't buying 08 to 12.
You're a hindsight spoofer.
Again...15 years ago who saw what coming?
And you are now forecasting some kind of recession imminently I take it?

Using your example, that's making my point. They didn't need to do anything Nostradamus-esque, they sat for years assessing the situation, and STILL made a killing after the fact. And they'll do it again. And again.

I mean, what are you trying to say here, that every single person is pig-ignorant? Does it disturb you that some people might be pulling a fast one on you (a two year long "fast" one is fast?)

Im not saying im that person that can predict everything, im just merely pointing out the obvious, that is, large groups of people are as thick as shyte, while much smaller numbers of people are everything but.

Its not a revelation. And yes, for what its worth, I am most certainly making an educated guess that the game is up for a great many nonsensical things. Because, shockingly enough, they are nonsensical. The only initial surprise is how long nonsense can be sustained, but that wears off quickly and, more importantly, inevitably.

Whats your estimate on the short to medium term? That the stacking problems of the world and this country are just "by the by", no big deal? Nothing will change?

Perhaps you think housing will increase in price forever, 50 billion for a shed in dundrum by 2050? Maybe you think it will all level off, just like it has never done in the history of the universe :P

Replace housing with mass migration, environment, wage stagnation, employment stability, automation, healthcare, Brexit, trump, tariffs blah blah blah. You think these things are not already impacting?

If so, good for you. Believe what you want either way, but don't scratch your head in amazement when it comes tumbling.

About the 15 years ago thing; it wasn't as clear as now, not nearly as bad, but all you had to do was look at the escalation in house prices, it was a massive jump in a short while. It only got worse and worse as the next few years came along. Again, it was hardly Nostradamus to see that these increasing prices would blow eventually. Who cares if youre 2 or 3 years out, maybe even 4 or 5. The main thing is that you didn't buy into the crazy. Simple, yet so elusive for so many.

wonski

Gael23 wrote: »

The more operations and appointments are cancelled the greater public anger will grow

My Tuesday appointment has been rescheduled for 5th of March, to give you an idea of the delays. Mind this is just a routine post op visit (ortho).

Hopefully more urgent cases are dealt with quicker, but wouldn't hold my breath. They can't just cancel or move other people to accommodate this week patients.

Mad_maxx

Augeo wrote: »

Vulture funds bought well off the low point pricewise, they weren't buying 08 to 12.
You're a hindsight spoofer.
Again...15 years ago who saw what coming?
And you are now forecasting some kind of recession imminently I take it?

Very true, vulture funds started showing up around 2014 when rents started going up sharply and Ireland had just exited the bailout

Gael23

wonski wrote: »

My Tuesday appointment has been rescheduled for 5th of March, to give you an idea of the delays. Mind this is just a routine post op visit (ortho).

Hopefully more urgent cases are dealt with quicker, but wouldn't hold my breath. They can't just cancel or move other people to accommodate this week patients.

I have an appointment at the end of March and if that’s cancelled then I’m left without medication as what I’m taking can only be prescribed by a hospital. I won’t be supporting them any longer if that happens

alloywheel

physioman wrote: »

They will not cave in. The nurses will cave. Can't strike forever. They can't afford to. Government are saving a fortune on not paying 30k+ nurses.

Too true, and most people are definitely against the nurses now. Not only are the nurses much better paid than most people ( nurses average 58,000 per year ) but they have security and pensions and perks like average 10-11 sickies a year most people can only dream of. Nobody wants to pay more tax just to pay the nurses even more.

eagle eye

alloywheel wrote:

Too true, and most people are definitely against the nurses now. Not only are the nurses much better paid than most people ( nurses average 58,000 per year ) but they have security and pensions and perks like average 10-11 sickies a year most people can only dream of. Nobody wants to pay more tax just to pay the nurses even more.

Most people are in favour of the nurses in the real world. That is where you walk down the street and talk to people in person.
My wife is in severe pain with a back issue and requires an injection into her spine. We had to cancel it because it was a day the nurses were on strike, we had to check to see if they were on strike today because it was rescheduled for today. We wouldn't be going if they were on strike.
There are loads of people, a huge majority of people I know who are fully behind the nurses.
If you go by a place where they are on strike you'll see lots of people driving by beeping their horns and waving showing support for the strike.

alloywheel

eagle eye wrote: »

If you go by a place where they are on strike you'll see lots of people driving by beeping their horns and waving showing support for the strike.

6% were beeping their horns, and they were all teachers and public servants or spouses of nurses. If you talk to most people in the real world, they do not want to pay more tax to pay the public servants even more. Especially when it has been shown our nurses are some of the best paid and pensioned in the world as it is.

Wanderer78

alloywheel wrote:

6% were beeping their horns, and they were all teachers and public servants or spouses of nurses. If you talk to most people in the real world, they do not want to pay more tax to pay the public servants even more. Especially when it has been shown our nurses are some of the best paid and pensioned in the world as it is.

You were busy surveying, I must be living in an alternative world, didn't realise we had a 'real world'!

beejee

beejee wrote: »

...........
Perhaps you think housing will increase in price forever, 50 billion for a shed in dundrum by 2050? Maybe you think it will all level off, just like it has never done in the history of the universe :P

Replace housing with mass migration, environment, wage stagnation, employment stability, automation, healthcare, Brexit, trump, tariffs blah blah blah. You think these things are not already impacting?

If so, good for you. Believe what you want either way, but don't scratch your head in amazement when it comes tumbling...................

Listen fred, I can think there's no impending disaster in IRELAND without thinking that housing will increase in price forever, 50 billion for a shed in dundrum by 2050 etc etc.

You made a comment that 15 years ago "all this" or something was clear as day to happen. I pointed out you were talking through your hoop. Back in 2004 it wasn't expcted that house prices would rocket to their 2007/2008 peaks ffs.
And pre bust no one had any idea where we'd be now.

Your master plan is to stop building the hospital, throw the money in the bank and build it in some time in the future when it'll be cheaper. You don't know when that time is and you are ignoring that the hospital is needed now.
There are certain things that over rule cost, a children's hospital is one of them IMO.

You claim to have an educated opinion, you're nothing but a captain hindsight merchant.

Who is pulling a fast one on me, oh wise one?

beejee wrote: »

............. Does it disturb you that some people might be pulling a fast one on you (a two year long "fast" one is fast?)........

Seanachai

eagle eye wrote: »

Most people are in favour of the nurses in the real world. That is where you walk down the street and talk to people in person.
My wife is in severe pain with a back issue and requires an injection into her spine. We had to cancel it because it was a day the nurses were on strike, we had to check to see if they were on strike today because it was rescheduled for today. We wouldn't be going if they were on strike.
There are loads of people, a huge majority of people I know who are fully behind the nurses.
If you go by a place where they are on strike you'll see lots of people driving by beeping their horns and waving showing support for the strike.

There's some on here visualising the people beeping wearing Celtic jerseys with cans hanging out the windows. Or with Che Guevara stickers on the cars.

eagle eye

Seanachai wrote:

There's some on here visualising the people beeping wearing Celtic jerseys with cans hanging out the windows. Or with Che Guevara stickers on the cars.

Yeah because they live in la la Land, more commonly know as online.
I wonder do they ever actually talk to a person face to face.

tretorn

The nurses seem to have decided who they want to benchmark themselves against and its gone from a pay increase to demanding parity with physios and dieticans and other grades. These grades are more specialist than nurses so have akways been paid more. Physios etc will be very unhsppy if the principle is accepted that nurses because they have strength in numbers should earn as much as them.

What is the situation in other countries, sre nurses paid the same ss Physio graduates.

I would think there are pay differentials everywhere between graduate nurses, graduate physios and graduate Junior doctors and if nurses are paid at physio level then Junior doctors and Physios will want the differential restored through more money.

Public support for the nurses will disappear soon, they need to be realistic in their demands. The problem seems to lie in attracting more nurses and realistically its to the Philipines and India we should be looking to fill the gap and not endlessly training young Irish nurses who are going to travel no matter what they are paid.

eagle eye

tretorn wrote:

Public support for the nurses will disappear soon, they need to be realistic in their demands. The problem seems to lie in attracting more nurses and realistically its to the Philipines and India we should be looking to fill the gap and not endlessly training young Irish nurses who are going to travel no matter what they are paid.

I prefer somebody intelligent with good English when I go to hospital.

acequion

alloywheel wrote: »

Too true, and most people are definitely against the nurses now. Not only are the nurses much better paid than most people ( nurses average 58,000 per year ) but they have security and pensions and perks like average 10-11 sickies a year most people can only dream of. Nobody wants to pay more tax just to pay the nurses even more.

You're a total broken record this stage, spoofing the same old bullshyt over and over. You're actually providing comic relief at this stage.

Teachers and nurses'husbands the only ones beeping :pac::pac:

And can you provide a link to your breaking news revelation that most people don't support the nurses? Because from anything I've read or heard they still have a majority public support. Or do you think this FG echo chamber thread is the real world?

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

I prefer somebody intelligent with good English when I go to hospital.

Folk from the Philipines and India aren't intelligent and don't have good English?

eagle eye

Augeo wrote:

Folk from the Philipines and India aren't intelligent and don't have good English?

Not as intelligent in general as Irish nurses and certainly the English is hard to understand from many.

Old diesel

tretorn wrote: »

The nurses seem to have decided who they want to benchmark themselves against and its gone from a pay increase to demanding parity with physios and dieticans and other grades. These grades are more specialist than nurses so have akways been paid more. Physios etc will be very unhsppy if the principle is accepted that nurses because they have strength in numbers should earn as much as them.

What is the situation in other countries, sre nurses paid the same ss Physio graduates.

I would think there are pay differentials everywhere between graduate nurses, graduate physios and graduate Junior doctors and if nurses are paid at physio level then Junior doctors and Physios will want the differential restored through more money.

Public support for the nurses will disappear soon, they need to be realistic in their demands. The problem seems to lie in attracting more nurses and realistically its to the Philipines and India we should be looking to fill the gap and not endlessly training young Irish nurses who are going to travel no matter what they are paid.

So to save 6 k a person per year in wages you want to import cheaper nurses.

So many questions.....

1) has this not been tried before.....

2) what's the plan when your imported nurses find they can't rent a place.*

3) if you can't attract nurses then you need to make the role more attractive for nurses to join in this country.

4) can we import cheaper landlords as well - the current landlord model is a drain on the economy with people handing over more and more money without any product improvement.

*oh crap we need to improve the wages and build houses - oh my god we have to spend money.

gctest50

eagle eye wrote: »

Not as intelligent in general as Irish nurses and certainly the English is hard to understand from many.

How are you measuring that now ?

MarinersBlues

Would removing the two tier pay structure for new entrants solve this issue?

By eliminating it new nurses would have a more attractive salary, incentivising more to stay.
Existing nurses would get the extra staff and better conditions they want.

The government would grasp the nettle on this probelm in the wider public sector.
It has to be addressed at some stage or there will be more unrest/strikes.