Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

MarinersBlues

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Would removing the two tier pay structure for new entrants solve this issue?

By eliminating it new nurses would have a more attractive salary, incentivising more to stay.
Existing nurses would get the extra staff and better conditions they want.
.............

Existing nurses want more cash.
Unless they get that I can't see the problem being solved, nurses (all of them) want more cash

MarinersBlues

Augeo wrote: »

Existing nurses want more cash.
Unless they get that I can't see the problem being solved, nurses (all of them) want more cash

Any nurses I see interviewed talk about the stress of the job and lack of resources.
I haven't seen any interviews where (guessing by their age) nurses on the old payscales talk about pay.

tretorn

The Filipino and Indian nurses are already filling the vacanies and surely its better to have a less intelligent nurse than none at all. Its the more intelligent nurses who arent satisfied with the role so maybe go back to training on the ward and dtop sending trainee nurses to college for four years, this is giving them notions when actually nursing is hard physical graft no matter where you work.

Funny enough most nurses who go to Australia come back after a few years so its not the Utopia its being portrayed as.

Nurses are a group of Public Sector workers and they dont derserve special treatment, they werent singled out for cuts during the recession, every single PS worker had their income slashed, none lost their jobs.

Tell me how

tretorn wrote: »

The Filipino and Indian nurses are already filling the vacanies and surely its better to have a less intelligent nurse than none at all. Its the more intelligent nurses who arent satisfied with the role so maybe go back to training on the ward and dtop sending trainee nurses to college for four years, this is giving them notions when actually nursing is hard physical graft no matter where you work.

Funny enough most nurses who go to Australia come back after a few years so its not the Utopia its being portrayed as.

Nurses are a group of Public Sector workers and they dont derserve special treatment, they werent singled out for cuts during the recession, every single PS worker had their income slashed, none lost their jobs.

Have you performed IQ tests on all nurses so that you can qualify this statement, or do you have a link to some evidence?

MarinersBlues

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Any nurses I see interviewed talk about the stress of the job and lack of resources.
I haven't seen any interviews where (guessing by their age) nurses on the old payscales talk about pay.

the placards they are carrying say are often referring to pay

johnytwentyten

eagle eye wrote: »

Not as intelligent in general as Irish nurses and certainly the English is hard to understand from many.

Sweet Jesus, not as intelligent in general, quite the statement

Old diesel

tretorn wrote: »

The Filipino and Indian nurses are already filling the vacanies and surely its better to have a less intelligent nurse than none at all. Its the more intelligent nurses who arent satisfied with the role so maybe go back to training on the ward and dtop sending trainee nurses to college for four years, this is giving them notions when actually nursing is hard physical graft no matter where you work.

Funny enough most nurses who go to Australia come back after a few years so its not the Utopia its being portrayed as.

Nurses are a group of Public Sector workers and they dont derserve special treatment, they werent singled out for cuts during the recession, every single PS worker had their income slashed, none lost their jobs.

They already do on ward training as part of their current training.

Re the Australia thing - the work is somewhat easier over there with a 1 nurse to 4 patient ratio.

Nursing as a profession has evolved with more complex healthcare needs - requiring a nurse to have more knowledge and skills then many years ago.

You the patient actually benefit from your nurse having extra knowledge and training.

ELM327

eagle eye wrote: »

Not as intelligent in general as Irish nurses and certainly the English is hard to understand from many.

You are a racist ****. That is all.
I'd love to see some substantive data around this. Not that there will be any

MarinersBlues

Augeo wrote: »

the placards they are carrying say are often referring to pay

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/second-day-of-nurses-strike-has-dramatic-impact-on-services-1.3782720

Around 40,000 nurses and midwives from the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO) are striking over pay, which they claim is leading to staff retention issues.

It seems to be staff retention issues as a result of poor pay.

It my understanding that it is younger nurses on the lower that are willing to move abroad, not nurses who are established on the higher payscales.

They are constantly referencing graduates in any discussion I hear.

Mad_maxx

Augeo wrote: »

Folk from the Philipines and India aren't intelligent and don't have good English?

Don't know about the Philippines but any duff consultant I've ever seen has been either Indian or Pakistani

Mrsmum

Going abroad is almost a rite of passage for young nurses. Why wouldn't they try it out, they know they will get a job straight away abroad and if they don't like being away, they can come home at any stage and walk straight into a job. Unlike other graduates whose focus is on finding a job after graduation. Will extra money keep these nurses here ? You'd want to be very sure of that before spending millions on it.

Mad_maxx

Augeo wrote: »

Listen fred, I can think there's no impending disaster in IRELAND without thinking that housing will increase in price forever, 50 billion for a shed in dundrum by 2050 etc etc.

You made a comment that 15 years ago "all this" or something was clear as day to happen. I pointed out you were talking through your hoop. Back in 2004 it wasn't expcted that house prices would rocket to their 2007/2008 peaks ffs.
And pre bust no one had any idea where we'd be now.

Your master plan is to stop building the hospital, throw the money in the bank and build it in some time in the future when it'll be cheaper. You don't know when that time is and you are ignoring that the hospital is needed now.
There are certain things that over rule cost, a children's hospital is one of them IMO.

You claim to have an educated opinion, you're nothing but a captain hindsight merchant.

Who is pulling a fast one on me, oh wise one?

Houses were down 20% from peak by 2008, the peak was February 2007 and more likely late 2006 as it takes months afterwards for sales to register

Data often lies in these circumstances, records tend to show 2013 as the bottom, it was not the bottom in Dublin, late spring 2012 was the bottom but as banks weren't lending and few transactions took place, it took ages for sales to show up

Property has slipped a bit this past three or four months, I reckon its pre brexit nerves but unless we get a real bad looking end of march UK exit, prices will rise sharply by year end

Dublin is a very high wage city but its very expensive and there should be a public sector premium for the capital, if the nurses were striking for this or better working conditions, I'd back them to the hilt

road_high

Nurses are in cloud cuckoo land with their timing- the country could potentially lose vast volumes of trade and tax revenue. But if they want to persist with the self destruct route, let them at it.

Satta Massagana

Augeo wrote: »

the placards they are carrying say are often referring to pay

Great to see all the happy smiling nurses in these photos.
I noticed that as I was driving past a demo yesterday.
All in great form, whooping & hollering like idiots.

I wouldn't think the sick people having their life saving operations cancelled would be as jovial.

weldoninhio

namloc1980 wrote: »

Didn't the INMO accept the terms of the Public Service Stability Agreement which runs until the end of 2020? They are now reneging on that agreement so they can't be negotiated with or trusted. If the government caves in, then it's open season for all the other PS.

The government reneged on the agreement regarding staffing levels and recruitment. Therefore the agreement is null and void.

Old diesel

weldoninhio wrote: »

The government reneged on the agreement regarding staffing levels and recruitment. Therefore the agreement is null and void.

I think there is a clause 3 and clause 4 that the IMNO have an issue with

tretorn

Tell me how wrote: »

Have you performed IQ tests on all nurses so that you can qualify this statement, or do you have a link to some evidence?

I didnt post that Indian or Filipino nurses are less intelligent, someone else did.

I replied saying if we accept this surely its better to have a less intelligent nurse than none at all.

Young Irish nurses are always going to travel so spending money we dont have paying them more for the couple of years they will stay after graduating is a bit pointless. Paying them more money without doing something about retention is pointless too. There are hundreds and thousands of qualified nurses in the Filipinos who would jump at the chance to earn what Irish nurses earn and we need urgent response now to fill the vacancies so intensive overseas recruitment needs to take place, if needs be visas should be offered to the nurses immediate families too and the HSE should pay their rent too.

This is in response to the description the striking nurses are giving of their working conditions, ie one nurse to every ward throughout the ward throughout the night and nurses not being able to take toilet breaks. The nurses graduating this year have probably all made plans to go to Dubai or Australia so no point in looking there to fill empty posts. Even doubling the nurses salary wont help retention much anyway, nurses have always travelled and a good portion of nursing entrants go into that course because they dont have enough points for PHysio etc, the plan is to use the nursing degree as a step to further training and many traineee nurses have no intention of actually nursing.

TheRiverman

Mrsmum wrote: »

Going abroad is almost a rite of passage for young nurses. Why wouldn't they try it out, they know they will get a job straight away abroad and if they don't like being away, they can come home at any stage and walk straight into a job. Unlike other graduates whose focus is on finding a job after graduation. Will extra money keep these nurses here ? You'd want to be very sure of that before spending millions on it.

What about the recruitment embargo back in 2010 when newly qualified nurses were driven out of this country because they were no jobs here to "walk straight into".?.

weldoninhio

BarryD2 wrote: »

Kick away, but know that you are the cash cow. Sure give the INMO their extra €300M annually or double that or more with consequent pay rises for other grades. They'll be grand. But you may 1) expect there to be cuts elsewhere, try slashing that off the social housing budget and you'll hear the howls and/ or 2) are you happy to pony up lots of extra tax?

There's no free lunch here. Someone's gonna pay for it.

And at end of the day, the extra spend will make the hiring of more nurses difficult, so the safety argument is meaningless.

I know where we can make a cut of that amount that will not affect a single person in Ireland.

Martina1991

eagle eye wrote: »

Not as intelligent in general as Irish nurses and certainly the English is hard to understand from many.

Why would we employ nurses who weren't accredited. If a nurse is deemed to be qualified according to our Irish standards then I wouldn't care where they were from.

weldoninhio

alloywheel wrote: »

Too true, and most people are definitely against the nurses now. Not only are the nurses much better paid than most people ( nurses average 58,000 per year ) but they have security and pensions and perks like average 10-11 sickies a year most people can only dream of. Nobody wants to pay more tax just to pay the nurses even more.

Dumbest post i've ever seen on boards. Ever. And thats saying something. :rolleyes:

MarinersBlues

MarinersBlues wrote: »

............

It my understanding that it is younger nurses on the lower that are willing to move abroad, not nurses who are established on the higher payscales.

They are constantly referencing graduates in any discussion I hear.

That applies to any industry, it's generally folk in the 20s who head off travelling etc for a few years.
They want a 12% rise across the board...........not just for graduates or those on the lower end of the scale.

Amirani

eagle eye wrote: »

Not as intelligent in general as Irish nurses and certainly the English is hard to understand from many.

You're an ignorant racist.

Martina1991

TheRiverman wrote: »

What about the recruitment embargo back in 2010 when newly qualified nurses were driven out of this country because they were no jobs here to "walk straight into".?.

That was 9 years ago. There's no embargo now. Why are nurses still leaving?

road_high

Interesting the number of foreign nurses the IMNO have corralled into the picket lines- surely if they are here by choice, and are mobile skilled workers- then why on earth are still here? Surely if things are as bad as we are led to believe they’d be the first ones back out of here? But yet they’re still here...?

wyf437gn6btzue

Augeo wrote: »

Vulture funds bought well off the low point pricewise, they weren't buying 08 to 12.
You're a hindsight spoofer.
Again...15 years ago who saw what coming?
And you are now forecasting some kind of recession imminently I take it?

If you look back 15 years ago the signs were everywhere and the people who took heed came out the good end.

The imminence of a recession is always slightly unpredictable as to when but if you look at the market as a whole its looking like there`s a storm coming. Italy fell into recession last week, the German economy is contracting and near recession. The markets are slack and falling off the January honeymoon they had, 2018 was a terrible year for stocks in general. Central banks buying up gold in rates not seen in years. Sub prime car loans are starting to come to a head (you could go for days)

back on topic, the wage increase for nurses would go into silly numbers that the country simply cannot afford. Couple that with every other sector that will then want a pay rise (or "parity") and you have a mess. If we do then subsequently slip into a economic downturn it will be grim for everyone because we will have to see a sharp rise in tax rates to subsidise a system of utter bloat & inefficiency.

ELM327

Amirani wrote: »

You're an ignorant racist.

People always assume that I'm a racist because of my right wing views on certain issues.


But I am not a racist, that post from eagle eye was most certainly racism. Ridiculous and I can't see how that does go unchecked.

markodaly

eagle eye wrote: »

I prefer somebody intelligent with good English when I go to hospital.

Ah great, the racists come out at night.

eagle eye

gctest50 wrote:

How are you measuring that now ?

My own experience.

Gunmonkey

weldoninhio wrote: »

I know where we can make a cut of that amount that will not affect a single person in Ireland.

Oh....go on then, I will bite!

Where would this magical cut be made that wouldnt affect a single person in Ireland?

eagle eye

markodaly wrote:

Ah great, the racists come out at night.

You don't understand what the word racist means obviously.
And it was this morning that I posted my comment.

markodaly

eagle eye wrote: »

You don't understand what the word racist means obviously.

Saying that a bunch of [insert ethnic group] are less intelligent is racism.

Ironic that you made such a nonsensical claim given your own posts here show that you are not the brightest spark in the classroom either.

tretorn

road_high wrote: »

Interesting the number of foreign nurses the IMNO have corralled into the picket lines- surely if they are here by choice, and are mobile skilled workers- then why on earth are still here? Surely if things are as bad as we are led to believe they’d be the first ones back out of here? But yet they’re still here...?

The foreign nurses hare here because the working conditions are presumably better here than in their own countries.

I was quite taken aback too at the number of non Irish to the front on the picket lines.

If you visit any nursing home you will notice most of the staff are non Irish too. Many are care assistants doing the really heavy unpleasant work and they are paid a lot less than nurses and probably not even unionised. The nurses union is big and loud and has the ability to bring the hospital service to its knees.

The people hooting the horns certainly arent in need of urgent medical treatment themselves and neither are their families.

markodaly

eagle eye wrote: »

My own experience.

My own experience is that New England Patriots fans are drunken rapists.
Am I doing this right?

eagle eye

markodaly wrote:

Ironic that you made such a nonsensical claim given your own posts here show that you are not the brightest spark in the classroom either.

Anytime, anywhere for an IQ test. I'm willing to put money on it.

eagle eye

markodaly wrote:

My own experience is that New England Patriots fans are drunken rapists. Am I doing this right?

No, you are claiming all are. I never claimed they all were. I said that in general they are less intelligent which means that it's entirely possible that an Indian or Philipino is the most intelligent. I said many are difficult to understand which means that there are those who speak excellent English.

markodaly

eagle eye wrote: »

Anytime, anywhere for an IQ test. I'm willing to put money on it.

PM me as we can arrange it.

eagle eye

markodaly wrote:

PM me as we can arrange it.

You'll have to pm me as I don't have that option on the app.

mariaalice

road_high wrote: »

Interesting the number of foreign nurses the IMNO have corralled into the picket lines- surely if they are here by choice, and are mobile skilled workers- then why on earth are still here? Surely if things are as bad as we are led to believe they’d be the first ones back out of here? But yet they’re still here...?

There are here because they are paid about 10 times what they would be paid in their own country, plus they are often supporting a family in their own country. They could go lots of places, but there is lots of racism in the countries where they would be paid the most so place like Ireland the UK and Canada have good opportunities mines the downside of some other places. The culture a person comes from can affect the perception of conditions too.

brendanwalsh

I'd like to see the cold place in hell reserved for Teresa May and Sile. Both championing sinking causes, and they are both about to go down with their ship. No way, we won't pay.

eagle eye

brendanwalsh wrote:

I'd like to see the cold place in hell reserved for Teresa May and Sile. Both championing sinking causes, and they are both about to go down with their ship. No way, we won't pay.

What has that got to do with the nurses?

road_high

mariaalice wrote: »

There are here because they are paid about 10 times what they would be paid in their own country, plus they are often supporting a family in their own country. They could go lots of places, but there is lots of racism in the countries where they would be paid the most so place like Ireland the UK and Canada have good opportunities mines the downside of some other places. The culture a person comes from can affect the perception of conditions too.

Why are they out on the picket lines if they are here, more or less, of their volition? I don’t get that myself, it lacks credibility.

weldoninhio

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Oh....go on then, I will bite!

Where would this magical cut be made that wouldnt affect a single person in Ireland?

Cut foreign aid. We pay almost 1bn a year towards it.

road_high

weldoninhio wrote: »

Cut foreign aid. We pay almost 1bn a year towards it.

So take cash for the very most needy in the world to give to some of the best paid public servants in the world. Nice!

weldoninhio

road_high wrote: »

So take cash for the very most needy in the world to give to some of the best paid public servants in the world. Nice!

Not “taking” anything from anyone. It’s not theirs to begin with. It’s Irish taxpayers money. If you feel so strongly about feeding the world there are plenty of charities for you to donate your own money to.

ELM327

weldoninhio wrote: »

Not “taking” anything from anyone. It’s not theirs to begin with. It’s Irish taxpayers money. If you feel so strongly about feeding the world there are plenty of charities for you to donate your own money to.

How about the following:


Allow X as the amount saved by potential cuts to the dole, Y as the amount saved by cutting foreign aid, and Z as the amount needed to increase nurses wages as demanded.


Let's assume that (X + Y)>Z, where X<=Z and Y <=Z



Then we apportion the following payment:


0.8(X+Y) = Z the amount needed to give the nurses the pay increase
0.2(X+Y) remaining, as other fiscal space.


Win win win, right?

hawkelady

https://t.co/LNP77FpQhU

I see Brian O’Driscoll has voiced his opinion

Satta Massagana

BOD still living in cloud cuckoo land...

eagle eye

Respect for BOD.

hawkelady

Also , just to mention that there is a nurse on AMA at the minute ... she’s putting a lot of the myths that’s spouted on here to bed. Worth a read ..