Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Twenty Grand

Twenty Grand wrote: »

The government obviously.
Since when has the government ever needed public opinion to spend money?

The government manages public finances.
Where the money comes from (what suffers to finance a payrise) is incredibly pertinent to election time

topmanamillion

brendanwalsh wrote: »

INMO have mastered the art of sophistry.

Fair play to Leo for standing tall.

Nurses will buckle before the government will.

The Governments a beaten ticket.
They`re currently going through the motions so they can pretend they put up a fight.
They`ll put a decent offer on the table in the next week or two.

Martina1991

seasidedub wrote:

Irish nurses start at lower rates than in many other comparable countries, you need to work 15 years to be on 45k. They move very slowly up the pay scale.

The pay is not enough to allow a nurse who is single to rent her/his own small apartment in a major urban area (where most hospitals are) . Sharing rooms at 20 might be ok, but not at 35 or 40. You go to university to have a reasonable standard, nurses can't have it on their pay in Ireland.

Many other health care professionals move slowly up their payscale. There's 13-16 points on the pay scale for nearly all disciplines to reach 45k+. But nurses have allowances early on to bump up their salary and far more opportunities for promotion.

Nurses are not the only people struggling to earn living and pay their rent. Those in low profile industries or companies are anonymous, their voices will never be heard on the news. Everyone knows and admires nurses and thinks they should get special treatment for some reason.

Achasanai wrote:

There would be a reasonable expectation that pay restoration would be a feature at some point in their career, so it's not really a case of needing a 'reality check'.

Pay restoration is already happening according to the public service agreement. Nurses themselves are getting pay increases, they were on track to earn another 3% until 2020 like the rest of us, but now they've downed tools demanding a whopping 12% across the board.

RinusLaptop76

redlead wrote: »

Have you ever spent more than 10 mins with a nurse? They never shut up complaining about pay, hours, holidays. If you are one think about it for a while.

Going through this thread it is only people like you, not nurses, that keep whining about salaries and so on, most often not properly informed, shooting their mouth off. Think about that for a while.

RinusLaptop76

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

Yeah the ones on strike every year

Nurses don't strike every year

Lillyfae

alloywheel wrote: »

You cannot fathom where your father, a retired nurse, gets his money from? He gets it from the taxpayer here, that is who. I know loads of public servants who retired at 55 / 60 on pensions of 35 and 40 k a year, plus a tax free lump sum of 18 months wages.

Way to selectively quote me. This was the entirety of what I said:

Lillyfae wrote: »

We don't know that it is- some nurses get by on it and some don't. The fact of the matter is, that's life, some people can become millionaires and some can't.

As an aside my own father is a retired nurse (retired at 55 after 35 years of service) and for the life of me I cannot fathom where my parents get their money from. He even went back to night duty for his last 2 years because that's what counts for the pension. The 30 - 35k remark is total rubbish, unless the guy is doing way less than full time work

I bolded the bit that you picked out to have an argument with. I do not agree that nurses should be paid more now, I don't agree that there should be as many nurse managers as there are and I don't agree that the last 2 years before pension should be the deciding factor of what you earn as a retiree. 35 years of service? Don't make me laugh.

David73

How does paying nurses more improve their working conditions?
Employ more not pay more!

Comparing nurses to physios is a little silly. Physios are largely employed by the private sector.

Mwalshd2

The support out there for the nurses is great to see. I was walking past the local regional hospital the other day when the picket was on and the amount of horns beeping in support was heartening. Everything from little Ford fiestas to 2018 Mercs.

David73

Mwalshd2 wrote: »

The support out there for the nurses is great to see. I was walking past the local regional hospital the other day when the picket was on and the amount of horns beeping in support was heartening. Everything from little Ford fiestas to 2018 Mercs.

Are you sure they weren't irate motorists beepin in frustration for being stuck in traffic?

mattser

Mwalshd2 wrote: »

The support out there for the nurses is great to see. I was walking past the local regional hospital the other day when the picket was on and the amount of horns beeping in support was heartening. Everything from little Ford fiestas to 2018 Mercs.

Away outta that with ya. Sure the 2 or 3 all knowing mouths on this after hours thread say there is little or no public support. The rest of us are only imagining things.

Mwalshd2

David73 wrote: »

Are you sure they weren't irate motorists beepin in frustration for being stuck in traffic?

Traffic was flowing as were the friendly waves between the motorists and the nurses

Mwalshd2

mattser wrote: »

Away outta that with ya. Sure the 2 or 3 all knowing mouths on this after hours thread say there is little or no public support. The rest of us are only imagining things.

They might want to step out of the cubicle once in a while and chat to more than just folk that agree with them to pacify them.

David73

Mwalshd2 wrote: »

They might want to step out of the cubicle once in a while and chat to more than just folk that agree with them to pacify them.

WARNING: This user is a Troll

Wishbone Ash

David73 wrote: »

How does paying nurses more improve their working conditions?
Employ more not pay more!

You're missing the whole point of the industrial action. You can't employ more if pay and conditions don't improve. We've 70 vacancies that we can't fill.

David73 wrote:

... Physios are largely employed by the private sector.

Most clinical people employed in private sector are paid the rate established in the public sector. There may be a few differences regarding allowances etc. but it's broadly the same. Nurses employed in the private sector are paid more or less the same as those in the public sector.

David73

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You're missing the whole point of the industrial action. You can't employ more if pay and conditions don't improve. We've 70 vacancies that we can't fill.

Most clinical people employed in private sector are paid the rate established in the public sector. There may be a few differences regarding allowances etc. but it's broadly the same. Nurses employed in the private sector are paid more or less the same as those in the public sector.

As a nurse yourself you'd hardly say no to a bitta more money!
Did nobody tell you the salary before you signed up? Vocation my ass!

This is pure spin

Conflict of interest.

facehugger99

The only people supporting the nurses are relatives and other Public Servants, salivating at the thoughts of sticking their paws into the public purse if the nurses get a settlement.

It's incumbent on the Government to face down this greedy and unjustified action on behalf of the private sector who are footing these ridiculous payments.

One can only hope we have a Government with a bit of backbone.

Sierra Oscar

David73 wrote: »

How does paying nurses more improve their working conditions?

Erm, because it makes it more attractive for young people to actually stay nursing in Ireland thus directly addressing the staffing crisis which in turn improves working conditions? Like it's not rocket science.

You are aware that there are 4 jobs available for every qualified nurse seeking work in the HSE? And that there is a severe under staffing crisis when it comes to nurses in the HSE?

David73 wrote: »

Employ more not pay more!

That's impossible to do if qualified nurses aren't willing to apply for jobs in the HSE and are instead moving abroad to work.

David73

WARNING: THIS POST CONTAINS FACTUAL EVIDENCE!!


Where else would a nurse get paid 45 to 55k for only 6 months work experience. (9 months are in their final year)

irishjobs.ie/Jobs/Nurse-General-8283899.aspx

Wishbone Ash

David73 wrote: »

As a nurse yourself you'd hardly say no to a bitta more money!
Did nobody tell you the salary before you signed up? Vocation my ass!

This is pure spin

Conflict of interest.

Nicely deflected there David.

Now back to the point - how do you propose to employ more nurses? There is finances available to recruit but no one applying.

Mwalshd2

David73 wrote: »

WARNING: THIS POST CONTAINS FACTUAL EVIDENCE!!


Where else would a nurse get paid 45 to 55k for only 6 months work experience. (9 months are in their final year)

irishjobs.ie/Jobs/Nurse-General-8283899.aspx

Agency work....... Lol...... Do you even know what you are posting. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

RinusLaptop76

David73 wrote: »

WARNING: This user is a Troll

Takes one to know one

Wishbone Ash

Mwalshd2 wrote: »

Agency work....... Lol...... Do you even know what you are posting. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

...and he thinks '6 months experience' is the same as 6 months experience working in Ireland.

David73

Is it a coincidence when the country is back in boom times that the nurses come out painting a picture of them being starved and on the brink of homelessness, sleeping in cars yada yada yada God love us!

When the country is on it's knees financially, the nurses are nowhere to be seen enjoying their unsackable pensioned aboved salaried job, probably chatting about the lastest fashion at the nurses station

My relative was in hospital recently and when I visited I saw the same 3 nurses giggling and laughing standing around for 20 minute stretches at a time quite frequently. The Asian nurses were doing their job.

Wanderer78

David73 wrote: »

Is it a coincidence when the country is back in boom times that the nurses come out painting a picture of them being starved and on the brink of homelessness, sleeping in cars yada yada yada God love us!

When the country is on it's knees financially, the nurses are nowhere to be seen enjoying their unsackable pensioned aboved salaried job, probably chatting about the lastest fashion at the nurses station

My relative was in hospital recently and when I visited I saw the same 3 nurses giggling and laughing standing around for 20 minute stretches at a time quite frequently. The Asian nurses were doing their job.

dont be a drama queen now, the country isnt on its knees financially, this isnt 2007!

Twenty Grand

David73 wrote: »

WARNING: This user is a Troll

Hmmm, joined today. 14 posts, all on this thread...

I think we know who the troll is here... :rolleyes:

gordongekko

If things are that bad why is staff turnover in the region of 5%

David73

Wanderer78 wrote: »

dont be a drama queen now, the country isnt on its knees financially, this isnt 2007!

Never said it was, in fact i said the opposite

Mwalshd2

David73 wrote: »

When the country is on it's knees financially, the nurses are nowhere to be seen

On the contrary, they were busier than even with intakes of attempted suicides, overdoses and folks off their meds in times of financial hardship.

David73

gordongekko wrote: »

If things are that bad why is staff turnover in the region of 5%

becareful there with your facts, this is a pro nurses strike thread, they don't like facts

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

dont be a drama queen now, the country isnt on its knees financially, this isnt 2007!

That's his point....read it again.
Good to see you blow the trumpet that the country isn't on its knees though for a change.

Wishbone Ash

gordongekko wrote: »

If things are that bad why is staff turnover in the region of 5%

What people also seem to be forgetting is that the turnover rate is for existing staff. If a center had 1,000 positions but only 850 filled, the turnover rate is a percentage of the 'filled' posts not the total posts.

tretorn

I watched the programme on the Rotunda hospital and I thought there was a lot of standing around chatting too.

There was no sense of understaffing anywhere, I actually thought there were a lot of staff on duty.

The whole bed blocking things needs to be sorted as a matter of urgency. You have elderly people occupying beds for months on end, possibly years on end because their families dont want to pay for nursing homes. Hospital management need to set dates that these elderly people be moved by and if they arent moved the invoices for their hospital care should be lodged against their estates to be paid once the elderly person dies. When there is no financial incentive for moving elderly people to nursing homes or back to their own homes with care funded by their families then the elderly will be left in hospital beds. We have no idea how many beds in hospitals are occupied inappropriately but the first step in dealing with not enough nurses is to do something about this nonsense.

David73

Should oncology nurses be paid the same as threatre nurses?

Wanderer78

David73 wrote: »

Never said it was, in fact i said the opposite

once again, you will actually find the major causes of previous recessions was more to do with the private sector than the public sector, this was evident in the most recent recession with the rapid rise of private sector debt, largely in the housing sector, you will also see that we were good little boys and girls running relatively balanced budgets, in some cases, slight surpluses, leading up to the crash

gordongekko

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

What people also seem to be forgetting is that the turnover rate is for existing staff. If a center had 1,000 positions but only 850 filled, the turnover rate is a percentage of the 'filled' posts not the total posts.

If that's the issue then the option of career breaks needs to be stopped. If people want to go and live in Australia then off with them but they'll need to give up the job here so that hiring expensive agency staff to replace them will end.

Isn't it likely a lot of nurses will return home to hold onto their permanent job here.

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

That's his point....read it again.
Good to see you blow the trumpet that the country isn't on its knees though for a change.

our country isnt on its knees, and ive never said that, its moving along relatively well in many respects

David73

tretorn wrote: »

I watched the programme on the Rotunda hospital and I thought there was a lot of standing around chatting too.

There was no sense of understaffing anywhere, I actually thought there were a lot of staff on duty.

The whole bed blocking things needs to be sorted as a matter of urgency. You have elderly people occupying beds for months on end, possibly years on end because their families dont want to pay for nursing homes. Hospital management need to set dates that these elderly people be moved by and if they arent moved the invoices for their hospital care should be lodged against their estates to be paid once the elderly person dies. When there is no financial incentive for moving elderly people to nursing homes or back to their own homes with care funded by their families then the elderly will be left in hospital beds. We have no idea how many beds in hospitals are occupied inappropriately but the first step in dealing with not enough nurses is to do something about this nonsense.

This is a very reasonable comment

No doubt you'll get the nurses saying that the Government funded RTE made that purposely to turn against the nurses and the images were photo shopped. Wha Wha Wha!!

Re the Beds issue, Good point. The whole structure of the HSE must become more efficient and stream lined and beds made available. That's how you will improve conditions!!

wiggle16

alloywheel wrote: »

The nurses are overpaid as it is compared with most nurses in the world. Absenteeism is a real problem in the HSE with a rate close to 5%, much higher than the absenteeism rate in the private sector that pays them. Very few people support the nurses (apart from themselves), they lost whatever support they had when they shafted the poor cancer patients. Back to work they will go with their tail between their legs, and they should be glad to have a secure pensionable job with the probable recession / brexit coming for the rest of us, with probable job losses.

Then why is it that it is virtually impossible to retain nurses trained here, who go abroad? We have turned Irish nurses into an export rather than an asset.

"they shafted the poor cancer patients"... who they look after day and night. Yeah, right.

I've been to A&E three times this year, in Connolly and the Mater (where two nurses were abused and screamed at by a junkie who was threatening to kill himself if he was kicked out for being abusive and that it would be "their f*cking fault" if he did) - what they put up with and the conditions they are expected to work under are absolutely deplorable. I don't know how they do it, but how they do it for the money they're on is absolutely beyond me.

"Back to work they go with their tail between their legs" - says it all about you.

David73

wiggle16 wrote: »

Then why is it that it is virtually impossible to retain nurses trained here, who go abroad? We have turned Irish nurses into an export rather than an asset.

"they shafted the poor cancer patients"... who they look after day and night. Yeah, right.

I've been to A&E three times this year, in Connolly and the Mater (where two nurses were abused and screamed at by a junkie who was threatening to kill himself if he was kicked out for being abusive and that it would be "their f*cking fault" if he did) - what they put up with and the conditions they are expected to work under are absolutely deplorable. I don't know how they do it, but how they do it for the money they're on is absolutely beyond me.

"Back to work they go with their tail between their legs" - says it all about you.

I've seen the security Guards being abused and threatened by patients, should we then benchmark their salary with the nurses? Makes logic.

markodaly

wiggle16 wrote: »

Then why is it that it is virtually impossible to retain nurses trained here, who go abroad? We have turned Irish nurses into an export rather than an asset.

"they shafted the poor cancer patients"... who they look after day and night. Yeah, right.

I've been to A&E three times this year, in Connolly and the Mater (where two nurses were abused and screamed at by a junkie who was threatening to kill himself if he was kicked out for being abusive and that it would be "their f*cking fault" if he did) - what they put up with and the conditions they are expected to work under are absolutely deplorable. I don't know how they do it, but how they do it for the money they're on is absolutely beyond me.

"Back to work they go with their tail between their legs" - says it all about you.

Staff retention is about more than money. Having a nursing qualification is hugely sought after, where it will open job opportunities pretty much anywhere in the world.

It also helps that Irish nurses speak fluent English and that they are white. If you are a fresh graduate, would you rather travel and see the world for a number of years before you settle down.

The world has changed and labor markets with it. Paying nurses more will not make Mullingar more attractive than Melbourne to the average Irish graduate.

Wishbone Ash

gordongekko wrote: »

If that's the issue then the option of career breaks needs to be stopped. If people want to go and live in Australia then off with them but they'll need to give up the job here so that hiring expensive agency staff to replace them will end.

Isn't it likely a lot of nurses will return home to hold onto their permanent job here.

You can't go abroad on a 'career break' and continue to hold your position. You have to resign your post. I've never seen it done any other way.

Also, and I'm open to correction but I thought it was illegal to take a career break and work in the same career? Perhaps I'm confusing it with Leave of Absence.

Varta

David73 wrote: »

I've seen the security Guards being abused and threatened by patients, should we then benchmark their salary with the nurses? Makes logic.

No, actually, it is not logical. Nurses are being abused while trying to nurse. The security guard's job is to handle the abusive patients.

Kivaro

Watching the nurses picket hospitals on the Virgin Media news this morning, I found it odd that a number of nurses were actually hiding behind the placards that they were holding when the camera panned to them ...... as if they were embarrassed to be seen striking for more money.

Another thing I noticed is the big smiley faces on the picket-line nurses. Surely they realise that the hundreds of thousands of people that they are adversely affecting (including patients and their families) do not find their strike-for-more-money funny.

If they get their €300+Million per year raise, what happens when the next major economic downturn happens? And it will happen. The country cannot afford this exorbitant increase in nurse wages. I am hoping that if the government caves in, then the European Union will step in to stop this madness. If not, we will end up like Greece, with all our tax money going to public sector wages, allowances, and runaway public sector pension funding.

David73

markodaly wrote: »

Staff retention is about more than money. Having a nursing qualification is hugely sought after, where it will open job opportunities pretty much anywhere in the world.

It also helps that Irish nurses speak fluent English and that they are white. If you are a fresh graduate, would you rather travel and see the world for a number of years before you settle down.

The world has changed and labor markets with it. Paying nurses more will not make Mullingar more attractive than Melbourne to the average Irish graduate.

What an odd post!

Are black nurses that speak fluent English not liked?

Varta

I watched the programme on the Rotunda hospital and I thought there was a lot of standing around chatting too.

There was no sense of understaffing anywhere, I actually thought there were a lot of staff on duty.

And I have seen Gardai standing around the station who didn't seem to be very busy, but I've also seen them put themselves at risk to defend the public. As the saying goes, don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.

Varta

David73 wrote: »

Should oncology nurses be paid the same as threatre nurses?

Yes.

David73

Varta wrote: »

Yes.

Then we'll get the bebate that the role of oncology nurse is less stressful than theatre nurse and therefore the theatre nurse should get paid more on top of their proposed salary increase.

Varta

David73 wrote: »

Then we'll get the bebate that the role of oncology nurse is less stressful than theatre nurse and therefore the theatre nurse should get paid more on top of their proposed salary increase.

Nurses are not looking for differential pay, so it is disingenuous to introduce it to the discussion.

RinusLaptop76

David73 wrote: »

becareful there with your facts, this is a pro nurses strike thread, they don't like facts

That is why you are not giving any facts just trolling around?

Twenty Grand

David73 wrote: »

I've seen the security Guards being abused and threatened by patients, should we then benchmark their salary with the nurses? Makes logic.

At least security guards get some training, backup and are mostly physically capable of defending themselves.

My gf is 5'2" and has been attacked multiple times on the wards, by junkies, alcohols and the mentally unwell. Usually she's alone when it happens due to understaffing.

Once every few months she comes home with bruises on her arms and face.