Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

tayto lover

alloywheel wrote: »

And that is just one of many reasons why the nurses will not get it: if they get it then the physios and hospital porters and ambulance drivers and clerical staff and teachers and you name it will want it too. €58,000 a year is average pay of nurses and compares favourably with other peoples income as it is.

There will be a nice wee secret agreement before long. Wait and see.

feckthisgenie

alloywheel wrote: »

And that is just one of many reasons why the nurses will not get it: if they get it then the physios and hospital porters and ambulance drivers and clerical staff and teachers and you name it will want it too. €58,000 a year is average pay of nurses and compares favourably with other peoples income as it is.

Except €58k is not the pay.

mad muffin

BarryD2 wrote: »

The INMO has a big call to make tomorrow. A three day consecutive strike is a huge escalation and can do as much damage to the nurses reputation as the governments. And will individual nurses just start breaking the pickets out of a sense of duty & care? I don't think they ever thought it'd go this far.

Do you think all the nurses just drop tools and walk out? All emergency and essential personnel are on hand. A&E is open. The ward nurses are there. Those that are on areas that are closed down like the day ward or ANP’s are either on the picket or redeployed.

The INMO and nurses don’t want any patients to suffer for this but the government has not delivered what was promised. The government will willing continue with the status quo if it was left to them.

The waiting lists would only grow. The patients waiting in trollies in the corridors of A&E will only get worse and their stay there will get longer. As there are not enough nurses in the wards to attend to all of them. There are beds. But there are not enough nurses for those beds. Day wards will still get closed and surgeries cancelled if the amount of patients waiting on trollies goes up overnight.

Whilst the health service has always suffered in Ireland. This government is the government that made it that much worse with its recruiting ban and pay cut to nurses.

This government has done fück all to rectify this since the recession has ended. It is this government that might have increased the budget for health care but it has implemented the spending poorly and hasn’t bothered to see why its spending more but getting nowhere. The children’s hospital is a prime example of this governments total incompetence. It’s total lack of awareness and lack of directions for this country is absolutely criminal.

alloywheel

No such thing as a "nice wee secret agreement".

Look what the agreements with the unions did to the country 15 years ago.

alloywheel

feckthisgenie wrote: »

Except €58k is not the pay.

Oh, are you one of the staff nurses who earned over €140,000 from the HSE only a few years ago? Whats your pay including allowances now? €130K or €150k?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/four-staff-nurses-earned-over-140000-last-year-229997.html

tayto lover

alloywheel wrote: »

No such thing as a "nice wee secret agreement".

Look what the agreements with the unions did to the country 15 years ago.

Without the Unions nobody would have anything.
I worked in places that had no union and was treated like dirt so I support them 100%.

alloywheel

tayto lover wrote: »

Without the Unions nobody would have anything.

Most people in unions work in the public sector. So you think people in the private sector have nothing, and is fine for them to work hard and pay their taxes to the government who then pay the public sector with them?

In Ireland the public sector is much better paid than the private sector, in most other countries they are the same.

No wonder our government is broke with no money for anything else, eg infrastructure like better transport, social housing etc.

A Shropshire Lad

This is another legacy of that prick Bertie Aherne. He decided in the late ninties to essentially 'buy off' the unions to guarantee him getting elected 3 times. He gave them whatever they wanted. The unions realised then all they had to do was threaten successive governments and they would roll over.
Nurses never went on strike before then...

feckthisgenie

alloywheel wrote: »

Oh, are you one of the staff nurses who earned over €140,000 from the HSE only a few years ago? Whats your pay including allowances now? €130K or €150k?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/four-staff-nurses-earned-over-140000-last-year-229997.html

4 nurses out of 40k. I'm not a nurse by the way.
The pay scales are online maybe open your eyes and have a look at starting point , increments and end point. It's not rocket science, quite easy even for you

tayto lover

alloywheel wrote: »

Most people in unions work in the public sector. So you think people in the private sector have nothing, and is fine for them to work hard and pay their taxes to the government who then pay the public sector with them?

In Ireland the public sector is much better paid than the private sector, in most other countries they are the same.

No wonder our government is broke with no money for anything else, eg infrastructure like better transport, social housing etc.

That’s my point.
If you are content just to accept what you’re given then you will always be poorly paid.

Paulzx

alloywheel wrote: »

So do architects, its a longer and more difficult course than nursing and upon completion of 5 years 3rd level, architects get paid peanuts for 2 years if they are lucky enough to get a job at all. And during the recession 70% lost their jobs. How many nurses lost their jobs?

....because the arse fell out of the "market" for architects during the recession. They had a completely unwanted skill. Don't think the same happened to the demand for nurses skills.

Maybe the architects should have retrained as nurses?

RinusLaptop76

Martina1991 wrote: »

The first point on a staff nurse pay scale is 29,345.

Graduated nurses right out school aren't staff nurses and don't start with 29k.

Fann Linn

alloywheel wrote: »

Most people in unions work in the public sector. So you think people in the private sector have nothing, and is fine for them to work hard and pay their taxes to the government who then pay the public sector with them?

In Ireland the public sector is much better paid than the private sector, in most other countries they are the same.

No wonder our government is broke with no money for anything else, eg infrastructure like better transport, social housing etc.

In actual fact most people in unions are private sector.

Just happens that most public sector workers are unionised.

alloywheel

tayto lover wrote: »

If you are content just to accept what you’re given then you will always be poorly paid.

Most people strive to better themselves, get promotion, set up their own businesses or otherwise get on in life.

If everyone group of workers in the country had an average of €58,000 per year income like the nurses do, defined benefit "golden" pension from the government, job security, 10 or 11 days sickies a year etc...and they went on strike for even more pay, what sort of country would it be? It would be un-competitive and bankrupt very quickly.

The nurses are greedy and selfish, everyone saw that when they cancelled cancer patients appointments last week.

alloywheel

Paulzx wrote: »

....because the arse fell out of the "market" for architects during the recession. They had a completely unwanted skill. Don't think the same happened to the demand for nurses skills.

Paulzx wrote: »

.
Maybe the architects should have retrained as nurses?

Many private sector architects retrained in different careers, or were forced to emigrate. Not a single public sector architect lost their job. The staff in government planning offices that were dealing with planning applications during the celtic tiger were still in government planning offices 2, 4, 6 years after the bust twiddling their thumbs and dealing with 5% of the workload / applications. See how valuable job security is?

feckthisgenie

alloywheel wrote: »

Most people strive to better themselves, get promotion, set up their own businesses or otherwise get on in life.

If everyone group of workers in the country had an average of €58,000 per year income like the nurses do, defined benefit "golden" pension from the government, job security, 10 or 11 days sickies a year etc...and the went on strike for even more pay, what sort of country would it be? It would be uncompetitive and bankrupt very quickly.

The nurses are greedy and selfish, everyone saw that when they cancelled cancer patients appointments last week.

10 or 11 sick days a year? It's 7 days uncertified in a rolling 24 month period. Your full of sh1t the true doesn't fit your agenda.
The private sector are milking it with all their perks and massive wages/bonuses

wrangler

feckthisgenie wrote: »

10 or 11 sick days a year? It's 7 days uncertified in a rolling 24 month period. Your full of sh1t the true doesn't fit your agenda.
The private sector are milking it with all their perks and massive wages/bonuses

Our mutual friend takes plenty of them anyway, might be part of her problem there.
Well paid private sector workers work many times the hours of public sector and if they don't they're not well paid

David73

feckthisgenie wrote: »

10 or 11 sick days a year? It's 7 days uncertified in a rolling 24 month period. Your full of sh1t the true doesn't fit your agenda.
The private sector are milking it with all their perks and massive wages/bonuses

What garbage!

feckthisgenie

David73 wrote: »

What garbage!

Which part Davina?

feckthisgenie

wrangler wrote: »

Our mutual friend takes plenty of them anyway, might be part of her problem there.
Well paid private sector workers work many times the hours of public sector and if they don't they're not well paid

I dont know or care what your friend takes. Again your figures are plucked from your head to suit your agenda and aren't factually. HSE Sick leave policy is available online as are pay scales for all public servants.

Spanish Eyes

The full time working week is 36 hours AFAIK.

That is three shifts of twelve hours. Three full shifts on, four days off. I do realise that night duties are factored in also, and overtime etc. but as I understand it, 36 hours is the working week.

Is that correct? if I am wrong I will take it on the chin.

alloywheel

feckthisgenie wrote: »

10 or 11 sick days a year? It's 7 days uncertified in a rolling 24 month period. Your full of sh1t the true doesn't fit your agenda.

Absenteeism in the HSE amounts to 10 days per worker in one year

https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/absenteeism-in-the-hse-amounts-to-10-days-per-worker-in-one-year-309467.html

Quote: We must be the sickest nation in the world, or do we have a workforce that is skilled in dishonesty?

Team-work is essential, especially in the public service, and this high rate of absenteeism must have increased the risk of mistakes.

This also exposes the incompetence of public service managers, because their employees take three times the number of days off of their counterparts in the private sector."


Absenteeism is far higher in the HSE than in the NHS in the UK. It is also much higher than in the private sector.

Now that is sickening when the taxpayer pays for it!

feckthisgenie

alloywheel wrote: »

Absenteeism in the HSE amounts to 10 days per worker in one year

https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/absenteeism-in-the-hse-amounts-to-10-days-per-worker-in-one-year-309467.html

Quote: We must be the sickest nation in the world, or do we have a workforce that is skilled in dishonesty?

Team-work is essential, especially in the public service, and this high rate of absenteeism must have increased the risk of mistakes.

This also exposes the incompetence of public service managers, because their employees take three times the number of days off of their counterparts in the private sector."


Absenteeism is far higher in the HSE than in the NHS in the UK. It is also much higher than in the private sector.

Now that is sickening when the taxpayer pays for it!

Read your post I commented on. It read like you said that's public sector entitlements. Those people that take the piss like that are pulled up for that amount of sick days and not paid when all their sick leave is maxed

Still waters

I hope they dont get a cent, their behaviour is losing the public support, if they were out in protest over working conditions I could see the point but all they want is to line their pockets and disrupt the lives of ordinary people who depend on the services they provide, they need to take a step back and see what they're doing is totally wrong and it's ordinary people like us and our mothers and fathers who will suffer, they won't see any suffering over this only a reward if varadkar and Harris dance to their tune, I hate to say it but I'm backing the government in this one, this strike needs to be defeated to send a message to other coseted public services that think they can hold ordinary people to ransom

wrangler

feckthisgenie wrote: »

I dont know or care what your friend takes. Again your figures are plucked from your head to suit your agenda and aren't factually. HSE Sick leave policy is available online as are pay scales for all public servants.

You were quick enough to come in and defend her, loads of days off there, obviously you were bluffing and don't know the circumstances at al of that nurse in the Irish Timesl.
What sort of a profession would pull that stunt

David73

feckthisgenie wrote: »

Read your post I commented on. It read like you said that's public sector entitlements. Those people that take the piss like that are pulled up for that amount of sick days and not paid when all their sick leave is maxed

Any evidence that these are "pulled up on"???

Or is it more of your talking ****e!

tayto lover

Here we go again with 5he “public support” rubbish.
You could eat and drink a lot of that.

Paulzx

alloywheel wrote: »

Many private sector architects retrained in different careers, or were forced to emigrate. Not a single public sector architect lost their job. The staff in government planning offices that were dealing with planning applications during the celtic tiger were still in government planning offices 2, 4, 6 years after the bust twiddling their thumbs and dealing with 5% of the workload / applications. See how valuable job security is?

You compared Architects to Nurses during the recession. I contradicted the argument.

You have now introduced the spurious comparison of private and public sector architects to a debate on nurses keeping their jobs during the recession when architects lost theirs due to nobody needing their services.

What is your point? I repeat again. If architects had been able to carry out a nurses duties they would have had a ready market for their skills during the recession.

trellheim

but all they want is to line their pockets

GET UP THE YARD Nurses now earn less than they did in 2008. ( and this is about restoration not lining of pockets )

Please try and be in the same room as the facts.

Spanish Eyes

So is a nurse's full time week 36 hours or what? Sorry to butt back in, but honestly if that is the case, it is game over.

I do realise that 36 hours is a three day week of twelve hour shifts.

Above that is overtime, and there are night shifts too. But there are allowances for nightshifts. Just like the Emergency services, Gardai, Prison staff and so on. Not that unusual really. It's part of the job T+Cs.

And I also know that nurses stay on for the handover too. Unpaid.

thomasdylan

On the subject of sick leave there's a report published every year that breaks absences down by location and job. The highest absence rates are always in management and admin (who would generally have the least patient contact) and there are always crazy rates of absences of ambulance support staff.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/resources/our-workforce/absenteeism-report-jan-2016.pdf

David73

trellheim wrote: »

GET UP THE YARD Nurses now earn less than they did in 2008. ( and this is about restoration not lining of pockets )

Please try and be in the same room as the facts.

I don't suppose you can provide a link to back up that whacky statement?

feckthisgenie

feckthisgenie wrote: »

10 or 11 sick days a year? It's 7 days uncertified in a rolling 24 month period. Your full of sh1t the true doesn't fit your agenda.
The private sector are milking it with all their perks and massive wages/bonuses

Private sector milking it?
Private sector companies don't throw money about you know.

jlm29

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So is a nurse's full time week 36 hours or what? Sorry to butt back in, but honestly if that is the case, it is game over.

I do realise that 36 hours is a three day week of twelve hour shifts.

Above that is overtime, and there are night shifts too. But there are allowances for nightshifts. Just like the Emergency services, Gardai, Prison staff and so on. Not that unusual really. It's part of the job T+Cs.

And I also know that nurses stay on for the handover too. Unpaid.

39 hr week

Still waters

trellheim wrote: »

GET UP THE YARD Nurses now earn less than they did in 2008. ( and this is about restoration not lining of pockets )

Please try and be in the same room as the facts.

What yard

mad muffin

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So is a nurse's full time week 36 hours or what? Sorry to butt back in, but honestly if that is the case, it is game over.

I do realise that 36 hours is a three day week of twelve hour shifts.

Above that is overtime, and there are night shifts too. But there are allowances for nightshifts. Just like the Emergency services, Gardai, Prison staff and so on. Not that unusual really. It's part of the job T+Cs.

And I also know that nurses stay on for the handover too. Unpaid.

They work 39 hrs a week. If they do 3 days one week they’ll do 4 days another weeks.

boardise

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this . Nurses making argument for extra money because they have a degree.
But there are many nurses ,possibly a majority,who have no degree having entered before the degree course was set up . W ould there be a twin salary track then - a degree salary and a non -degree one?

feckthisgenie

Augeo wrote: »

Private sector milking it?
Private sector companies don't throw money about you know.

Facebook, Google and all multi nationals throwing money at their employees. Gravy train

trellheim

I don't suppose you can provide a link to back up that whacky statement?

Google for Haddington Road and Lansdowne Road agreements and FEMPI . Enjoy the read.

Sweetemotion

feckthisgenie wrote: »

Facebook, Google and all multi nationals throwing money at their employees. Gravy train

How would you feel if your taxes were raised to pay for that?

Spanish Eyes

I doubt they will get a pay rise. But they may get increased allowances eventually or something.

feckthisgenie

Sweetemotion wrote: »

How would you feel if your taxes were raised to pay for that?

Sure we all pay tax

mad muffin

boardise wrote: »

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this . Nurses making argument for extra money because they have a degree.
But there are many nurses ,possibly a majority,who have no degree having entered before the degree course was set up . W ould there be a twin salary track then - a degree salary and a non -degree one?

Any nurse that has only their diploma is already down on the pay scale due to limited promotions.

Many that want to keep getting promoted and also do more specialised nursing like ANP. Would have gotten their degree on their own time whilst still working. And then on to getting their masters.

Sweetemotion

feckthisgenie wrote: »

Sure we all pay tax

We do, but how would you feel about having to pay more tax for the gravy train you see in Google and Facebook specifically.

A lot of people working and paying tax in the private sector see the public sector as a gravy train just like you see it in facebook.

feckthisgenie

feckthisgenie wrote: »

Facebook, Google and all multi nationals throwing money at their employees. Gravy train

Lol..... what a view....why don't nurses work for google or facebook so?

brendanwalsh

We are already going to have an even bigger debt piling up in the next few years with old age pension. We don't have any more money to give. These nurses need to face reality. Suck it up, nobody is flush with cash

trellheim

Lol..... what a view....why don't nurses work for google or facebook so?

Perhaps that should be chiselled in stone over the A&E you might (God forbid) get wheeled into one night and wonder "what kind of care will I get tonight" ?

Fann Linn

brendanwalsh wrote: »

We are already going to have an even bigger debt piling up in the next few years with old age pension. We don't have any more money to give. These nurses need to face reality. Suck it up, nobody is flush with cash

Obviously no one told Harris that last August.

feckthisgenie

Augeo wrote: »

Lol..... what a view....why don't nurses work for google or facebook so?

I could imply to same to you, why dont you work in the public sector if you think things are so good.

TheRiverman

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So is a nurse's full time week 36 hours or what? Sorry to butt back in, but honestly if that is the case, it is game over.

I do realise that 36 hours is a three day week of twelve hour shifts.

Above that is overtime, and there are night shifts too. But there are allowances for nightshifts. Just like the Emergency services, Gardai, Prison staff and so on. Not that unusual really. It's part of the job T+Cs.

And I also know that nurses stay on for the handover too. Unpaid.

39 hr week,an extra 12 hr shift has to be worked to make up the hours.They are paid monthly and I think that runs to six weeks over Christmas/ start of New Year.