Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Rossi IRL

If thousands of nurses come flocking back with higher pay then surely that would have a knock on effect when it comes to the cost of housing.

Wouldnt the cost of rent go up aswell?

There would be an increased demand for houses that just aren't there.

Twenty Grand

Rossi IRL wrote: »

If thousands of nurses come flocking back with higher pay then surely that would have a knock on effect when it comes to the cost of housing.

Wouldnt the cost of rent go up aswell?

There would be an increased demand for houses that just aren't there.

True enough.
I'd say it's another reason they're leaving in the first place
To be honest, I support the nurses pay claim, but I doubt it'll bring many back in big numbers.

The dept of health was offering 3k lump sum to nurses to move back and none did.

Sam Quentin

I hope whatever the outcome,that they all go back to their jobs and work hard to the best of their ability and reduce waiting times in a+e, outpatients etc.. my nephew waited 14hrs to be seen in the Lourdes in Drogheda last August,.

iamwhoiam

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I hope whatever the outcome,that they all go back to their jobs and work hard to the best of their ability and reduce waiting times in a+e, outpatients etc.. my nephew waited 14hrs to be seen in the Lourdes in Drogheda last August,.

Its not the nurses that cause delays in A and E to be fair

Rossi IRL

Rossi IRL wrote: »

If thousands of nurses come flocking back with higher pay then surely that would have a knock on effect when it comes to the cost of housing.

Wouldnt the cost of rent go up aswell?

There would be an increased demand for houses that just aren't there.

Not really. The net immigration figure for ireland in 2018 almost matches the total number of nurses and midwives. Even if 1,000 nurses came to Ireland next year, it would be a tiny dent in the inward migration statistics, and it's worth bearing in mind that these nurses would be more dispersed across the island than typical migrants.

We're not going to have 1,000 nurses returning home next year, but even that wouldn't make a noticeable difference in rents

Rossi IRL

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Its not the nurses that cause delays in A and E to be fair

Long waiting times have been going on for years, it's certainly not the nurses faults.

Its gone past the stage where independent auditors should be sent into the HSE to see where the money is being wasted.

Cut the waste and conditions might improve.

Twenty Grand

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Long waiting times have been going on for years, it's certainly not the nurses faults.

Its gone past the stage where independent auditors should be sent into the HSE to see where the money is being wasted.

Cut the waste and conditions might improve.

The problems with the HSE are well documented.

All the government has to do is listen to the people working there and act.

They just won't act.

Building the National children's hospital is a farcical move when the health service is crippled.
The massive cost overrun aside, problems in existing hospitals are just going to be replicate here, leaving things worse and even more intractable.

When I saw the story about protesters at Simon Harris' house, it's awful to say but part of me thinks that maybe they weren't wrong.

Lapis Luzali

Im hopeful they will get their rise, they need it but with that said ive noticed the tide turning on social media a little bit with nurses posting fake statistics, lies and undermining other professions to push their agenda.
I saw a post recently being shared saying that teachers start on 38,000 a year and only have 4 year degrees, trying to akin a teachers qualifications to nurses which isnt true at all, nurses usually have a 4 year level 8, teachers have 4 year undergrads but also are required to have a 2 year masters which includes unpaid work experience and no qualification allowances when they graduate, a teachers starting pay is 31,000 a year but thats only if they manage to find stable, full time work which most dont, so most teachers don't earn anything even close to that. Teachers get enough stick about their wages and the amount of holidays they get without nurses making up false numbers.
Theyve made up similar lies about other professions too.

Teachers and schools have been really supportive of nurses and the strikes as have other professions, its actually hurtful to think theyre spreading lies about other professions to push their agenda and to gain something for themselves. Like their throwing other professions under the bus to get what they want. Thats shameful.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Don't really get this length of degree argument. Are all salaries supposed to be set on how long people have spent in college. And what about the presumably thousands of nurses who are in the system a long time with no degree. Are they worth less than the ones fresh out of college? Will there be two pay scales to address this?

daithi7

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Its not the nurses that cause delays in A and E to be fair

Probably not to be fair. However, a good mate of mine is a surgeon who works 7am-7pm every day, plus weekends on call, etcc,etc. He gives out about nurses on his team, who insist on leaving active operations before completion because of inflexibility at end of shift and so on. This can often lead to huge delays for a whole team or worst case a second op being required (if there is no takeover nurse available).

He also frequently complains that nurses going out on sick leave (which is excessive in the hse) cause frequent surgery cancellations and other major inefficiencies in the system.

These issues should be addressed properly by the HSE, nursing unions and others asap before another red cent in public pay deal rises are sanctioned for nurses imho. They are simply unacceptable imho.

Varta

daithi7 wrote: »

Probably not to be fair. However, a good mate of mine is a surgeon who works 7am-7pm every day, plus weekends on call, etcc,etc. He gives out about nurses on his team, who insist on leaving active operations before completion because of inflexibility at end of shift and so on. This can often lead to huge delays for a whole team or worst case a second op being required (if there is no takeover nurse available).

He also frequently complains that nurses going out on sick leave (which is excessive in the hse) cause frequent surgery cancellations and other major inefficiencies in the system.

These issues should be addressed properly by the HSE, nursing unions and others asap before another red cent in public pay deal rises are sanctioned for nurses imho. They are simply unacceptable imho.

You really are a Walter Mitty. You just spout any old nonsense that comes into your head as though it were the truth.

Lapis Luzali

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Don't really get this length of degree argument. Are all salaries supposed to be set on how long people have spent in college. And what about the presumably thousands of nurses who are in the system a long time with no degree. Are they worth less than the ones fresh out of college? Will there be two pay scales to address this?

Its not just the lenght of the degree its the work thats involved to get the extra qualifications, the work experience you wouldnt get otherwise, the cost of the additional study which is literally thousands. If youre forking out 10,000 + just on fees for a masters, working unpaid to gain experience and completing intense research dissertations you should, imo be entitled to a higher rate of pay, all that extra work and money spent should count for something.

feckthisgenie

facehugger99 wrote: »

Well why don't they just fcuk off then?

Find a country that's not 200 billion in debt that can afford to pay them what they feel entitled to - I hear the Middle East is lovely this time of year.

If they want to stay in Ireland they need to accept they're working in a Country that has been bankrupted by Public Sector greed over the decades - there' no more money left - Boo Hoo, it's very sad

The country was bankrupt by greedy bankers and developers. Your probably one of them.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Lapis Luzali wrote: »

Its not just the lenght of the degree its the work thats involved to get the extra qualifications, the work experience you wouldnt get otherwise, the cost of the additional study which is literally thousands. If youre forking out 10,000 + just on fees for a masters, working unpaid to gain experience and completing intense research dissertations you should, imo be entitled to a higher rate of pay, all that extra work and money spent should count for something.

And the nurses that haven't completed this but have 20 plus years experience? How do they fit into that narrative? They haven't had the cost of the masters fees so should be ok with the lower wage presumably?

Doing a masters is definitely not a hallmark of someone who is going to perform well in the workplace so don't even agree with that point.

daithi7

Varta wrote: »

You really are a Walter Mitty. You just spout any old nonsense that comes into your head as though it were the truth.

And so, can you actually address the issues I highlighted?

Are you telling me this does not go on?? Cos SmartA I've heard it from the horse's mouth... i.e. poor working practices, high sick leave and entitled attitudes impact on effective surgery time, other professionals in the room and the overall efficiency of the system....

facehugger99

INMO has suspended action.

Not much good to the thousands of patients who've already had their appointments canceled.

Varta

daithi7 wrote: »

And so, can you actually address the issues I highlighted?

Are you telling me this does not go on?? Cos SmartA I've heard it from the horse's mouth... i.e. poor working practices, high sick leave and entitled attitudes impact on effective surgery time, other professionals in the room and the overall efficiency of the system....

What you said, which I highlighted in bold, is patently untrue.

Lapis Luzali

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

And the nurses that haven't completed this but have 20 plus years experience? How do they fit into that narrative? They haven't had the cost of the masters fees so should be ok with the lower wage presumably?

Doing a masters is definitely not a hallmark of someone who is going to perform well in the workplace so don't even agree with that point.

I never said that, I said they should get a pay rise and that they deserve one and that I support the strikes so I dont know where you got that from??

Doing anything isnt a hallmark that anyone will do well or not in any job, I never made any point regarding this, reread the post, you read it wrong the first time.

hawkelady

daithi7 wrote: »

And so, can you actually address the issues I highlighted?

Are you telling me this does not go on?? Cos SmartA I've heard it from the horse's mouth... i.e. poor working practices, high sick leave and entitled attitudes impact on effective surgery time, other professionals in the room and the overall efficiency of the system....

Your horse is lying to you

TheRiverman

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I hope whatever the outcome,that they all go back to their jobs and work hard to the best of their ability and reduce waiting times in a+e, outpatients etc.. my nephew waited 14hrs to be seen in the Lourdes in Drogheda last August,.

The A&E mess is not the nurses fault.Its the system that exists there.

So, the strike has been suspended?

facehugger99

This really has to be one of the most opportunistic and unjustified attempted money-grabs by public servants in decades, which considering this is Ireland, is really remarkable.

It's looking more and more like they've been faced down - I've been critical of FG in the past, but they'll get my vote if they hold firm on this.

TheRiverman

Strike suspended.

Signore Fancy Pants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, the strike has been suspended?

Yep

Inspector Coptoor

facehugger99 wrote: »

This really has to be one of the most opportunistic and unjustified attempted money-grabs by public servants in decades, which considering this is Ireland, is really remarkable.

It's looking more and more like they've been faced down - I've been critical of FG in the past, but they'll get my vote if they hold firm on this.

Change your tune you absolute broken record.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Lapis Luzali wrote: »

Its not just the lenght of the degree its the work thats involved to get the extra qualifications, the work experience you wouldnt get otherwise, the cost of the additional study which is literally thousands. If youre forking out 10,000 + just on fees for a masters, working unpaid to gain experience and completing intense research dissertations you should, imo be entitled to a higher rate of pay, all that extra work and money spent should count for something.

Apparently I didn't read this right the first time. We'll take it one point at a time. The extra work involved with a masters as you've outlined above should count for something. What is that something? Extra pay?

If the people who have done that extra deserve some added incentive, it would logically follow that those who havent done the extra should not get that incentive. Therefore, the nurses with no degrees will need to be on a poorer incentive package.

Martina1991

Lapis Luzali wrote:

Its not just the lenght of the degree its the work thats involved to get the extra qualifications, the work experience you wouldnt get otherwise, the cost of the additional study which is literally thousands. If youre forking out 10,000 + just on fees for a masters, working unpaid to gain experience and completing intense research dissertations you should, imo be entitled to a higher rate of pay, all that extra work and money spent should count for something.

Lots of health care workers have masters and post grad qualifications that they pay for themselves and don't earn extra money for. Why should only nurses get that benefit?

Do we know what the labour court has recommended?

Amirani

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Don't really get this length of degree argument. Are all salaries supposed to be set on how long people have spent in college. And what about the presumably thousands of nurses who are in the system a long time with no degree. Are they worth less than the ones fresh out of college? Will there be two pay scales to address this?

It's really a public sector mentality. It's the same reasons that many in the public service get paid more for having a masters, regardless of how relevant it is. It's all about "merit".

wrangler

Dale Doback wrote: »

Yep

No guarantee that the deal is ringfenced, so huge increase in the cost of living because of the rest of the public disservice getting the same, Irish nurses not coming back because of the cost of living, same ould rubbish service for the ordinary bloke in the street....such a rip off

hawkelady

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do we know what the labour court has recommended?

Not yet but We’ll know soon.

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

No guarantee that the deal is ringfenced, so huge increase in the cost of living because of the rest of the public disservice getting the same, Irish nurses not coming back because of the cost of living, same ould rubbish service for the ordinary bloke in the street....such a rip off

Disservice. Get over yourself mate. I take a pay cut to work in the HSE.

hawkelady

facehugger99 wrote: »

This really has to be one of the most opportunistic and unjustified attempted money-grabs by public servants in decades, which considering this is Ireland, is really remarkable.

It's looking more and more like they've been faced down - I've been critical of FG in the past, but they'll get my vote if they hold firm on this.

What are you on about. The government obviously have given something to the inmo to consider for them to call off the strike ! If they held firm ,as you say, we’d be having 3 days of strike starting tomorrow.

Sierra Oscar

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do we know what the labour court has recommended?

Labour Court recommendation is due to be published later this evening. Paschal Donohoe has stated he will inform the Cabinet tomorrow on the cost of the deal and will be recommending the Government to accept Labour Court recommendation. There’s money on the table for sure.

Lapis Luzali

Martina1991 wrote: »

Lots of health care workers have masters and post grad qualifications that they pay for themselves and don't earn extra money for. Why should only nurses get that benefit?

Where did I say that only nurses should get that benefit?

Ingrid Miley on RTÉ Radio 1 is reporting her understanding that there will be a new grade and a higher ceiling on nurse pay, new training opportunities and she reckons the package is worth about €1500 on average over a year.

Twenty Grand

facehugger99 wrote: »

INMO has suspended action.

Not much good to the thousands of patients who've already had their appointments canceled.

Fantastic news to the thousands who won't have appointments cancelled.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ingrid Miley on RTÉ Radio 1 is reporting her understanding that there will be a new grade and a higher ceiling on nurse pay, new training opportunities and she reckons the package is worth about €1500 on average over a year.

Sounds great! I'll hold off celebrating until the deal is done and the ink has dried. Though even then the govt might go back on it.

wrangler

Deleted User wrote: »

Disservice. Get over yourself mate. I take a pay cut to work in the HSE.

Any health service with a waiting list of half a milion plus is a disservice, and I'm not your mate......what sort of a mess would it be only for people like me paying my own health care

Old diesel

daithi7 wrote: »

Probably not to be fair. However, a good mate of mine is a surgeon who works 7am-7pm every day, plus weekends on call, etcc,etc. He gives out about nurses on his team, who insist on leaving active operations before completion because of inflexibility at end of shift and so on. This can often lead to huge delays for a whole team or worst case a second op being required (if there is no takeover nurse available).

He also frequently complains that nurses going out on sick leave (which is excessive in the hse) cause frequent surgery cancellations and other major inefficiencies in the system.

These issues should be addressed properly by the HSE, nursing unions and others asap before another red cent in public pay deal rises are sanctioned for nurses imho. They are simply unacceptable imho.

If end of shift is the 7 pm of his 7 am to 7 pm shift and a assuning the nurses in question also started at 7 am - then the question id be asking is how long is a SAFE shift in theatre.

By safe I mean in terms of avoiding errors/patient safety issues.

Sierra Oscar

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ingrid Miley on RTÉ Radio 1 is reporting her understanding that there will be a new grade and a higher ceiling on nurse pay, new training opportunities and she reckons the package is worth about €1500 on average over a year.

€1,500 per nurse per year? Pretty big victory for the INMO if thats true.

feckthisgenie

hawkelady wrote: »

What are you on about. The government obviously have given something to the inmo to consider for them to call off the strike ! If they held firm ,as you say, we’d be having 3 days of strike starting tomorrow.

He's a bit slow really bless him

Twenty Grand

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Fantastic news to the thousands who won't have appointments cancelled.



Sounds great! I'll hold off celebrating until the deal is done and the ink has dried. Though even then the govt might go back on it.

The training opportunities sound great if true. Govt have reportedly agreed to substantially increase the numbers of Advanced Nurse Practitioners, badly needed.

Delighted for the nurses if all comes to pass. And for patients too. This is an investment in our health care that is fairly commonplace elsewhere.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Lapis Luzali wrote: »

Where did I say that only nurses should get that benefit?

The thread is about nurse strikes to be fair.

But if you want to include all public servants in this how would you propose to address the point I made above on nurses without degrees but lots of experience vs those fresh out of college with the masters. Those with the masters are deserving of an extra incentive as per your earlier point, so how do you differentiate between the two groups?

iebamm2580

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

€1,500 per nurse per year? Pretty big victory for the INMO if thats true.

Not near 12% of the average salary so wouldn't call it a big victory.

Sierra Oscar

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

€1,500 per nurse per year? Pretty big victory for the INMO if thats true.

yes, but that's an average figure and presumably is distorted by some nurses being given enhanced roles and moving up pay grades. Report will be out by tomorrow morning, but seems positive so far.

iebamm2580

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

yes, but that's an average figure and presumably is distorted by some nurses being given enhanced roles and moving up pay grades. Report will be out by tomorrow morning, but seems positive so far.

They were always going to get something, i suppose you aim for 12% but realistically they knew that was not going to happen.

Inspector Coptoor

€1500 gross per nurse would be around €60M in total.
20% of the 300M sought.


Of that €60M, the nurses will get €24M net or €600 after all taxes, ASC and pension.

Door now open for other similar claims from Other unions.

Primary teachers union need to get it together.

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

Any health service with a waiting list of half a milion plus is a disservice, and I'm not your mate......what sort of a mess would it be only for people like me paying my own health care

So you reckon 10% of the population is on a waiting list for essential medical treatment?

Whilst I agree the health service is a bit of a mess. I've made savings in multiples of 10s of what I get paid in the HSE. So do you pay for all your treatment privately? You are a true Irish patriot!;)

hawkelady

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Not near 12% of the average salary so wouldn't call it a big victory.

Ha..... when you go for your payrise , do you go in asking for exactly what you want or stretch it a little ? Smart people would ask for a bit more ...
if you’re happy with a 5% increase you goin and ask for 7% .. so when the 5% is agreed .. both sides come out thinking they got a bargain. ..

I would have been shocked if the inmo got the 12% they initially asked for. It’s basic business

Sam Quentin

TheRiverman wrote: »

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I hope whatever the outcome,that they all go back to their jobs and work hard to the best of their ability and reduce waiting times in a+e, outpatients etc.. my nephew waited 14hrs to be seen in the Lourdes in Drogheda last August,.

The A&E mess is not the nurses fault.Its the system that exists there.

Just saying they should work hard and to the best of their ability.. not saying they should be tripping over each other,just work hard and fast like any job!?