Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

iebamm2580

hawkelady wrote: »

Ha..... when you go for your payrise , do you go in asking for exactly what you want or stretch it a little ? Smart people would ask for a bit more ...
if you’re happy with a 5% increase you goin and ask for 7% .. so when the 5% is agreed .. both sides come out thinking they got a bargain. ..

I would have been shocked if the inmo got the 12% they initially asked for. It’s basic business

Once again you jump in without reading all posts, look what i said a few posts above.

Fann Linn

Nurses from Oz won't be flocking back for €30 gross per week. The gardai got €80 pw.

pjohnson

Tbf they can just demand another increase in the next year or two

hawkelady

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Just saying they should work hard and to the best of their ability.. not saying they should be tripping over each other,just work hard and fast like any job!?

Are you saying they haven’t been working hard?

Hmmm. Interesting, I wonder will my profession now strike. As far as I'm aware. Most pharmacists have to pay for their postgraduate education. Realistically I would probably strike in favour for prescribing rights for pharmacists.

Tell me how

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

€1,500 per nurse per year? Pretty big victory for the INMO if thats true.

That's 2.63% of the average of 57K. It's quite a way from the 12% they were looking for.

I hope the other conditions would make them feel it was worth breaking the public sector pay agreement over.

Sierra Oscar

pjohnson wrote: »

Tbf they can just demand another increase in the next year or two

That's pretty much a given regardless considering the current Public Sector Stability Agreement expires in 2020 and is pretty much open to renegotiation from the end of this year. Paschal Donohoe has stated that the Government accepts that the Labour Court recommendation is within the current PSSA agreement so the stated timelines for renegotiation remain intact.

Tell me how wrote: »

I hope the other conditions would make them feel it was worth breaking the public sector pay agreement over.

The Government has accepted the industrial action didn't break the current public sector pay agreement. It's contained in the Labour Court recommendation apparently.

Sam Quentin

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I hope whatever the outcome,that they all go back to their jobs and work hard to the best of their ability and reduce waiting times in a+e, outpatients etc.. my nephew waited 14hrs to be seen in the Lourdes in Drogheda last August,.

Its not the nurses that cause delays in A and E to be fair

Well if I see them working hard and fast,.then I'll believe you!?

Inspector Coptoor

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

€1500 gross per nurse would be around €60M in total.
20% of the 300M sought.


Of that €60M, the nurses will get €24M net or €600 after all taxes, ASC and pension.

Door now open for other similar claims from Other unions.

Primary teachers union need to get it together.

I see the Ambulance Drivers will be picketing in a few days. They already began their action last month though.

Good luck with that lads, I don't see them getting much traction. I support the nurses' claim, and would support similar by doctors and Health Care Assistants, but I reckon we're going to see that the public opinion and the 'slippery slope' is not quite as slippery as people have feared.

iamwhoiam

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Just saying they should work hard and to the best of their ability.. not saying they should be tripping over each other,just work hard and fast like any job!?

Are you saying they don't already work hard ? I could write a book about nurses working hard , running from one patient to another and often with no proper breaks

Martina1991

Lapis Luzali wrote:

Where did I say that only nurses should get that benefit?

This is a thread about the nurses. I presumed that who you were talking about.
Nurses already get their post grads paid for and get allowances for upskilling.
Why should they get more money for it when others get nothing.

dave699

Great to see there's progress. Hopefully both sides go with the recommendations and that's the end of the strikes.

Fann Linn

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I see the Ambulance Drivers will be picketing in a few days. They already began their action last month though.

Good luck with that lads, I don't see them getting much traction. I support the nurses' claim, and would support similar by doctors and Health Care Assistants, but I reckon we're going to see that the public opinion and the 'slippery slope' is not quite as slippery as people have feared.

Does public opinion really matter however? If they feel their case is justified they should just plough on. The only caviat should be that the Army medical corp will probably be utilised to provide an ambulance service.

Thephantomsmask

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I see the Ambulance Drivers will be picketing in a few days. They already began their action last month though.

Good luck with that lads, I don't see them getting much traction. I support the nurses' claim, and would support similar by doctors and Health Care Assistants, but I reckon we're going to see that the public opinion and the 'slippery slope' is not quite as slippery as people have feared.

Picketing for the right to be represented by a union of their own choosing, not a pay raise.

Sam Quentin

hawkelady wrote: »

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Just saying they should work hard and to the best of their ability.. not saying they should be tripping over each other,just work hard and fast like any job!?

Are you saying they haven’t been working hard?

Huh.. you just quoted what I was saying!?

wrangler

Deleted User wrote: »

So you reckon 10% of the population is on a waiting list for essential medical treatment?

Whilst I agree the health service is a bit of a mess. I've made savings in multiples of 10s of what I get paid in the HSE. So do you pay for all your treatment privately? You are a true Irish patriot!;)

If we want proper treatment it seems we have to pay for it,
I was criticised lately by a HSE physio for going to a Chiropractor so I told her that if he wasn't doing a good job he wouldn't make a living where as with her..............it didn't matter

Twenty Grand

Tell me how wrote: »

That's 2.63% of the average of 57K. It's quite a way from the 12% they were looking for.

I hope the other conditions would make them feel it was worth breaking the public sector pay agreement over.

No it's not.

The average according to that bull**** study that people keep quoting was 55k, with 12k of that in overtime and allowances.

So 43k average. So it's a 3.5% pay rise on basic.
Not great now, but we'll wait for the rest of the report to see what training and other allowances are coming through.

Then we'll see if the nurses accept it, or go back on the picket.

Tell me how

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

That's pretty much a given regardless considering the current Public Sector Stability Agreement expires in 2020 and is pretty much open to renegotiation from the end of this year. Paschal Donohoe has stated that the Government accepts that the Labour Court recommendation is within the current PSSA agreement so the stated timelines for renegotiation remain intact.



The Government has accepted the industrial action didn't break the current public sector pay agreement. It's contained in the Labour Court recommendation apparently.

Let's just say "ignoring the public sector pay agreement" rather than breaking it so.

Not sure how they can say they didn't break it when it was written in to the agreement that they would not take any action to enforce pay rise demands before the agreement expired.

feckthisgenie

road_high wrote: »

Certainly not going to plan as they'd wished. The state aren't going to cave, the nurses are losing public support, and individual nurses are presumably losing many days pay and facing an even bigger hole in their wages if this drags on much longer. And all for nothing.

You called that well......

iebamm2580

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Huh.. you just quoted what I was saying!?

Man she hasn't a clue what she is saying, could be bi-polar, who knows.

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

If we want proper treatment it seems we have to pay for it,
I was criticised lately by a HSE physio for going to a Chiropractor so I told her that if he wasn't doing a good job he wouldn't make a living where as with her..............it didn't matter

I've no issues with chiropractors as long as they don't make false claims. But they are mainly only good with minor muscle pain. Nothing wrong with going to a chiropractor, but the evidence that a physio would base their practice on would better than a chiropractor. Glad the placebo effect worked for you, dude.:)

feckthisgenie

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Lovely stuff.
Labour court will undoubtedly side with the government and this is Phil's escape now from the pressure of the strike. Honestly she is in way over her head.

Telling no other nursing TU went on strike as they knew it would be breaking the agreement they had already signed up to.

Hi Brendan, how's your evening

Wheeliebin30

Hope to see our health service improve now.

wrangler

feckthisgenie wrote: »

You called that well......

Nurses didn't win because they deserved it, they won because they put vulnerable lives at risk

Tell me how

Twenty Grand wrote: »

No it's not.

The average according to that bull**** study that people keep quoting was 55k, with 12k of that in overtime and allowances.

So 43k average. So it's a 3.5% pay rise on basic.
Not great now, but we'll wait for the rest of the report to see what training and other allowances are coming through.

Then we'll see if the nurses accept it, or go back on the picket.

At least you're finally close to admitting what the average earnings are.

wrangler

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no issues with chiropractors as long as they don't make false claims. But they are mainly only good with minor muscle pain. Nothing wrong with going to a chiropractor, but the evidence that a physio would base their practice on would better than a chiropractor. Glad the placebo effect worked for you, dude.:)

Physios I've met are very poor, not even able to give placebo effect

For Forks Sake

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Hope to see our health service improve now.

There won't be a seat to be had on flights from Australia :rolleyes:

Twenty Grand

Tell me how wrote: »

At least you're finally close to admitting what the average earnings are.

At least I'm admitting the numbers are bull**** and not passing them off as fact.
I don't know what the real number is.

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

Physios I've met are very poor, not even able to give placebo effect

Out of curiosity, what was your specific diagnosis?

feckthisgenie

wrangler wrote: »

Nurses didn't win because they deserved it, they won because they put vulnerable lives at risk

The government have been putting lives at risk for years in the health service between all the scandals, under staffing every sector of the HSE. Cop yourself on you absolute tool

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

Physios I've met are very poor, not even able to give placebo effect

Out of curiosity, what was your specific diagnosis? As a general opinion, the less meds a patient is on the better. So physios do great work in that manner.

Lapis Luzali

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

The thread is about nurse strikes to be fair.

But if you want to include all public servants in this how would you propose to address the point I made above on nurses without degrees but lots of experience vs those fresh out of college with the masters. Those with the masters are deserving of an extra incentive as per your earlier point, so how do you differentiate between the two groups?

You dont differentiate.

Nurses havnt been allowed entry in to the profession without a qualification in over 20 years, the unqualified nurses are already at the top of the pay scale or near abouts. This would only effect new entrants who are already on a lower payscale to what they would have gotten just 10 years ago starting out. It would have no effect on unqualified nurses.
As time goes on the older generations of nurses and midwives will retire and all new entrants will be qualified.

Its been happening across the public sector for years, the entry requirements are getting higher while wages are getting lower and qualification allowances are being cut. New entrants are far less well off than older and sometimes unqualified staff, thats not to say im suggesting the pay or respect due to unqualified and experienced staff should be undermined or cut, im debating that qualification allowances should be reinstated.

My original post, which you likely missed, was about nurses on social media spreading false claims that teachers and other public sector workers are on a much higher starting pay than they actually get and have less qualifications than they actually have, some nurses are using these false claims to push their agenda. I agree with pay increases for nurses and the strikes but I disagree with the false claims being spread to push an agenda. Teachers have been in full support of nurses but are equally struggling with loss of pay and massive reduction in new entrant wages. Its disheartening to see some nurses push other public sector workers under the bus to sway opinion.

ricero

Hopefully the teachers are next out for pay restoration after this result for nurses

Miike

I'd say a few of the lads here are fierce hyper giving the turn of events - and the official position that the PSSA wasn't breached.

Galwayguy35

Fann Linn wrote: »

Does public opinion really matter however? If they feel their case is justified they should just plough on. The only caviat should be that the Army medical corp will probably be utilised to provide an ambulance service.

Well it should matter seeing as it's the public that has to pay for all this and put up with the disruption to their lives that striking causes.

iamwhoiam

Lapis Luzali wrote: »

You dont differentiate.

Nurses havnt been allowed entry in to the profession without a qualification in over 20 years, the unqualified nurses are already at the top of the pay scale or near abouts. This would only effect new entrants who are already on a lower payscale to what they would have gotten just 10 years ago starting out. It would have no effect on unqualified nurses.
As time goes on the older generations of nurses and midwives will retire and all new entrants will be qualified.

Its been happening across the public sector for years, the entry requirements are getting higher while wages are getting lower and qualification allowances are being cut. New entrants are far less well off than older and sometimes unqualified staff, thats not to say im suggesting the pay or respect due to unqualified and experienced staff should be undermined,.

Unqualified ? No nurse is unqualified ? I had no degree but I sure as hell was a qualified nurse



A qualified person is defined by OSHA as one who, “by possession of a recognized degree, certificate, or professional standing, or who by extensive knowledge, training and experience, has successfully demonstrated his ability to solve or resolve problems relating to the subject matter

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Unqualified ? No nurse is unqualified ? I had no degree but I sure as hell was a qualified nurse

Find it bizaare that some nurses have no formal education. No knock on you but I couldn't do my job as a pharmacist if I hadn't studied it in college. I would have killed loads of people.

wrangler

Deleted User wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what was your specific diagnosis?

It's just a back pain from years ago it locks, he sorts it, problem solved. It happened Christmas Eve this year and I didn't get to see him for 5 or 6 days I learn't that it wouldn't go away of it's own accord by resting it. I went to a consultant 25years ago and was told I'd have to live with it and that was a HSE consultant, went to chiropractor after that
Chiropractor is that long and more in Business, if he was no good he wouldn't be there, huge number of babies are brought to him
.

iamwhoiam

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Find it bizaare that some nurses have no formal education. No knock on you but I couldn't do my job as a pharmacist if I hadn't studied it in college. I would have killed loads of people.

Don't be ridiculous , nurses have education and diplomas going back years . I trained in 1972 and we all had a diploma . Or do you only count UNI education as " formal "
What an insulting uninformed post. I least I learned respect for others and I didn't need a Uni education to teach me that

Galwayguy35

alloywheel wrote: »

2005 all over again.

Paddy Power is taking bets on the country going bankrupt again within a few years, once the next deep recession due to any combination of number of possible factors eg Brexit / rise in interest rate / EU raises our corporation tax and multinationals move kicks in etc etc. The UK along with the IMF bailed us out last time, I wonder who will do it next time?

I'd say it's not a matter of if but when we go bust and like last time it's the private sector who will feel the brunt of it when job losses hit.

wrangler

Deleted User wrote: »

Find it bizaare that some nurses have no formal education. No knock on you but I couldn't do my job as a pharmacist if I hadn't studied it in college. I would have killed loads of people.

Best trained nurses have no degrees,

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

It's just a back pain from years ago it locks, he sorts it, problem solved. It happened Christmas Eve this year and I didn't get to see him for 5 or 6 days I learn't that it wouldn't go away of it's own accord by resting it. I went to a consultant 25years ago and was told I'd have to live with it and that was a HSE consultant, went to chiropractor after that
Chiropractor is that long and more in Business, if he was no good he wouldn't be there, huge number of babies are brought to him
.

Like I said, chiropractors are grand for minor muscle issues. If it works for you, great. Better than been on benzos/gabapentin.

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Hope to see our health service improve now.

Wishful thinking I'm afraid. There may be an increase in pay, but not a proportionate lift in quality...the cultural shift will take somewhat longer than a revised wage packet.

daithi7

Old diesel wrote: »

If end of shift is the 7 pm of his 7 am to 7 pm shift and a assuning the nurses in question also started at 7 am - then the question id be asking is how long is a SAFE shift in theatre.

By safe I mean in terms of avoiding errors/patient safety issues.

You're making a lot of assumptions there OD. Firstly, he and all surgeons frequently operate after 7pm, it's a needs must business.

The end of shift for a nurse could frequently be 3pm, or other similar time during the working day. So this is the issue. Lack of flexibility from the tail shuts down the dog as it were. Not good practice, highly costly and very inefficient but typical of the HSE culture.

Corruptedmorals

Wow, really didn't think they would suspend Tuesday this late. Hospitals and their switchboards will be insane now tomorrow...people will have made alternative arrangements as at this point everything tomorrow except some very urgent operations was fully cancelled and we had started on Wednesdays. Hopefully the recommendations are good and accepted by all sides...I'd rather the strikes went ahead this week rather than have them suspended and then they reject proposals and go back out.

road_high

alloywheel wrote: »

2005 all over again.

Paddy Power is taking bets on the country going bankrupt again within a few years, once the next deep recession due to any combination of number of possible factors eg Brexit / rise in interest rate / EU raises our corporation tax and multinationals move kicks in etc etc. The UK along with the IMF bailed us out last time, I wonder who will do it next time?

Absolute ireland top of the list- all public expenditure has been snowballing since the IMF left town and its only accelerating.
We are in such a vulnerable place- brexit, massive national debts, massive personal debts, very poor infrastructure coupled with lagging capital spending (easier give the idiots a few quid a week rather invest for the long term).
We needed a good decade of very prudent fiscal responsibility but the public sector have continued on where they left off in 2008. I genuinely worry about this stuff as it affects us all in the coming years but the general public demand is for one of reckless spending. They’ll then wonder why the economy will implode once we hit the next downturn.

TheRiverman

pjohnson wrote: »

Tbf they can just demand another increase in the next year or two

There will also be a new public service pay agreement negotiated next year.

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous , nurses have education and diplomas going back years . I trained in 1972 and we all had a diploma . Or do you only count UNI education as " formal "
What an insulting uninformed post. I least I learned respect for others and I didn't need a Uni education to teach me that

I meant no disrespect. But yeah, I think in this day and age, you would need a university degree to function as a nurse. The job is quite complex. Would you get your meds checked by a pharmacist who hadn't gone to college?

Lapis Luzali

wrangler wrote: »

Best trained nurses have no degrees,

It's very clear how little the older generation of nurses support their younger colleagues. You sound extremely insecure.

Nurses with degrees worked long and hard for their qualifications and worked for free gaining experience before being permitted to gain employment. That dedication should be applauded. I wouldnt be so quick to turn my nose up at them.

noodler

ricero wrote: »

Hopefully the teachers are next out for pay restoration after this result for nurses

Its rises at this stage.

Not restoration