Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Old diesel

tretorn wrote: »

How do the shifts work, do you have the same numbers at night as you do on the day shift.

Would having three shifts of eight hours be better than the twelve hour shifts which means nurses only have to be available for work three days a week. If nurses worked 8 Am to 4 pm, 4PM to Midnight and Midnight to 8 AM five days a week would this make the system more efficient. That would mean experienced nurses would be on site five days in a row rather than doing a Monday and Tuesday for example and then being off till Friday. Nurses probably wouldnt be interested in working like this though because then they have to be at work five days in a row.

We definitely need more HCAs, as far as I could see when my relative was in hospital for two months it is these workers who are doing the caring, the nurses spent most of their day at the top of the ward looking at computers and to be honest most of the younger nurses anyway dont want to do the hard physical graft. They see themselves as some sort of supernumary nurse and really the HSE doesnt need more nurses like this and they dont need to be training them to go abroad either which is what is happening now and the payrise they have got wont change that.

The Government should recruit a lot more Hcas and pay them a bit better and reduce the number of nurses on the wards, the modern day nurses seem to spend their days moaning about how hard their lot is. If the nurses were trained within the hospital system and not in universities they would find out pretty quickly what nursing actually involves and then they wouldnt be running out as fast as they can to Dubai to prop up the health service the wealthy can access in that awful country. To think that the Irish taxpayer is funding the nurses training so they can earn very big salaries using that training in Dubai.

They ALREADY do ward work as part of their training.

animaal

facehugger99 wrote: »

There is no fiscally conservative party prepared to take politically unpopular decisions to secure our future prosperity.

There have been other choices in the past, but the public has always decided that economic issues take a back seat to other priorities.

tom1ie

animaal wrote: »

There have been other choices in the past, but the public has always decided that economic issues take a back seat to other priorities.

Who? Renua? Economically correct, socially backwards therefore can't be voted for.
Pd's? An example of conservative liberalism, economically spot on and socially liberal. They were once the 3rd biggest party in Ireland.
So if there is an alternative people will vote for it.

tretorn

Old diesel wrote: »

They ALREADY do ward work as part of their training.

I know they do but maybe they should do the entire training on the wards.

There are lots of people going into nursing becasue they can with the CAO points they have in their leaving cert. Many dont have the interest of stamina for whats involved and if they were on the wards continously they would drop out by October of first year. Whats happening now with the ones who dont like the course is that they are sticking it out hoping at least to get to Dubai or Australia and then maybe using the degree to get into another career. Meanwhile there are other people more suited to nursing who cant get onto degree courses because their points are too low but really the HSE would benefit more if all nurses were actually trained on the wards from day one. This would definitely concentrate minds from day one, points required for nursing would drop substantially and you might get a better candidate more suited to the hard slog nursing requires.

animaal

tom1ie wrote: »

Who? Renua? Economically correct, socially backwards therefore can't be voted for.
Pd's? An example of conservative liberalism, economically spot on and socially liberal. They were once the 3rd biggest party in Ireland.
So if there is an alternative people will vote for it.

You appear to support the economic policies of Renua and the PDs. However, almost nobody voted for Renua. Their social policies were considered more important. And people stopped voting for the PDs, leading to their collapse.

Personally, I think it was good to have balance - both the economic left-wing and the economic right-wing represented. But you can't have everything. If a person votes based on social policies, they can't really complain that their economic position isn't represented.

Martina1991

tretorn wrote:

Would having three shifts of eight hours be better than the twelve hour shifts which means nurses only have to be available for work three days a week. If nurses worked 8 Am to 4 pm, 4PM to Midnight and Midnight to 8 AM five days a week would this make the system more efficient. That would mean experienced nurses would be on site five days in a row rather than doing a Monday and Tuesday for example and then being off till Friday. Nurses probably wouldnt be interested in working like this though because then they have to be at work five days in a row.

tretorn wrote:

How do the shifts work, do you have the same numbers at night as you do on the day shift.

There are less staff at night. Patients are more or less monitored while they sleep unless they become acutely unwell and need medication, or blood tests.

In your example of eight hour shifts you would need 3 separate rosters for nurses. There isn't enough staff for 3 shifts a day. With 12 hour shifts you have less rosters. The same staff are there for longer so theres less time wasted with handovers at the change of shift.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

That is not true, it depends on what private sector you are in lots of padding/ or extras in private sector employment and not just in IT one person I have in mind top health insurance paid for, generous holidays, bonuses it is in the financial sector there are no unions involved.

Yeah, but the private sector are profit making. Folk contriuting to that profit get rewarded sometimes, sometimes handsomely.
They can also be made redundant etc etc etc

mariaalice

tretorn wrote: »

I know they do but maybe they should do the entire training on the wards.

There are lots of people going into nursing becasue they can with the CAO points they have in their leaving cert. Many dont have the interest of stamina for whats involved and if they were on the wards continously they would drop out by October of first year. Whats happening now with the ones who dont like the course is that they are sticking it out hoping at least to get to Dubai or Australia and then maybe using the degree to get into another career. Meanwhile there are other people more suited to nursing who cant get onto degree courses because their points are too low but really the HSE would benefit more if all nurses were actually trained on the wards from day one. This would definitely concentrate minds from day one, points required for nursing would drop substantially and you might get a better candidate more suited to the hard slog nursing requires.

It's not a form of servile slavery its a professional job every first world country has nursing as a degree entry job it's not going to go backward and why not change career if someone one does not like it. There is a weird obsession with nurses in Irish society you just would not get the same ranting and raving about other professions except maybe teachers and not as much of it.

Lots drop out of the nursing degree as it goes along anyway the same as any third level course.

facehugger99

animaal wrote: »

You appear to support the economic policies of Renua and the PDs. However, almost nobody voted for Renua. Their social policies were considered more important. And people stopped voting for the PDs, leading to their collapse.

Personally, I think it was good to have balance - both the economic left-wing and the economic right-wing represented. But you can't have everything. If a person votes based on social policies, they can't really complain that their economic position isn't represented.

A choice would be nice.

One that doesn't involve a choice between voting for a bunch of soft-left populists that will throw tax-money at any problem rather than making the hard choices and the money-tree populists of the extreme left.

The country's finances are unsustainable. Our debt burden is huge, spending is running out of control across various departments and the public service and state pensions are a ponzi scheme that will not survive the demographic changes that are coming down the track in the next decades. The next recession is closer to us than the previous one at this stage and Brexit threatens to seriously impact our exports.

Future generations will look back on these times and wonder how people cheered as we sacrificed our futures on the altar of political expediency.

tom1ie

animaal wrote: »

You appear to support the economic policies of Renua and the PDs. However, almost nobody voted for Renua. Their social policies were considered more important. And people stopped voting for the PDs, leading to their collapse.

Personally, I think it was good to have balance - both the economic left-wing and the economic right-wing represented. But you can't have everything. If a person votes based on social policies, they can't really complain that their economic position isn't represented.

It is interesting how many people give out about lack of money etc but then go ahead and vote for the established parties, and as someone (possibly yourself) mentioned sf and lab would be far worse for the country economically.
I think if the pds came back now they would do well. Renua not so much due to their medieval outlook on social matters.

eagle eye

Nice time to start prefictong that we'll need another bail out and saying it'll be on the nurses when we all know that if and when it's required it'll be because of a hard border.

Wanderer78

eagle eye wrote:

Nice time to start prefictong that we'll need another bail out and saying it'll be on the nurses when we all know that if and when it's required it'll be because of a hard border.

Once again, it was actually the rapid rise of private debt that caused the need for the global bailouts

eagle eye

Wanderer78 wrote:

Once again, it was actually the rapid rise of private debt that caused the need for the global bailouts

I'm not talking about the past, I'm talking about the future.
People on here suggesting that the nurses getting money will lead to another bailout which it won't. There is a possibility that a hard border might lead to that happening but these guys will be blaming the nurses.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Once again, it was actually the rapid rise of private debt that caused the need for the global bailouts

Yes. Banks needed to be bailed out which we probably could have funded.

But the country itself needed to be bailed out because of the chronic overspending.

Please be clear which bailout you are referring to and stop muddying the waters.

daithi7

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Once again, it was actually the rapid rise of private debt that caused the need for the global bailouts

Yes it was private debt, unsustainable public expenditure and public debt that lead to this country going bankrupt less than 10 years ago.

And here we are again with public capital projects tripling in cost, public service pay deals being broken and massive recurring current expenditure being funded from unsustainable once off technical tax takes and annual budget (particularly health budget)overruns.

We are heading for a fall!!

alloywheel

alloywheel wrote: »

Recycled money? Do not give up your day job and take up economics.

Eh? I have a background in this area, I even used to mod the economics forum here based on that. I don't see the problem with the colloquialism I used.

JUst trying to point out that only NCBs and, in some cases, banks create new money. The Private Sector, or 99% of it, doesn't.

Twenty Grand

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Eh? I have a background in this area, I even used to mod the economics forum here based on that. I don't see the problem with the colloquialism I used.

JUst trying to point out that only NCBs and, in some cases, banks create new money. The Private Sector, or 99% of it, doesn't.

Don't worry about that lad. The only numbers he likes are makey uppey ones.

Old diesel

tretorn wrote: »

I know they do but maybe they should do the entire training on the wards.

There are lots of people going into nursing becasue they can with the CAO points they have in their leaving cert. Many dont have the interest of stamina for whats involved and if they were on the wards continously they would drop out by October of first year. Whats happening now with the ones who dont like the course is that they are sticking it out hoping at least to get to Dubai or Australia and then maybe using the degree to get into another career. Meanwhile there are other people more suited to nursing who cant get onto degree courses because their points are too low but really the HSE would benefit more if all nurses were actually trained on the wards from day one. This would definitely concentrate minds from day one, points required for nursing would drop substantially and you might get a better candidate more suited to the hard slog nursing requires.

So basically in 2019 - you want to deliberately downgrade someones qualification to attempt to restrict their career options in the future, pay them less and basically work the crap out of them to see who is still standing.

hawkelady

alloywheel wrote: »

Nurses here in Ireland are among the highest paid nurses in the world, that has not worked in delivering a world class health service and paying them even more will not help the country, it will just add to the national debt even more, which has increased to approx 200 billion, the highest it has ever been, higher even than when the IMF / UK bailed us out the last time. Bring back the Troika to run things!

Are you a goldfish ? I’ve no idea why you constantly repeat the crap you do ... maybe a nurse who is 4 yrs qualified will increase your dosage , seeing as she’s a little richer today !!
Please , do me a favor and don’t reply with a link to the crap you spout. Please ...

daithi7

hawkelady wrote: »

Are you a goldfish ? I’ve no idea why you constantly repeat the crap you do ... maybe a nurse who is 4 yrs qualified will increase your dosage , seeing as she’s a little richer today !!
Please , do me a favor and don’t reply with a link to the crap you spout. Please ...

With all due respect to you, I think you are the goldfish, who keeps repeating and spouting crap ( your weasel words), along with a lot of totally unnecessary personal jibes while you're at it. You are truly obnoxious.

P.s. I'm just fighting fire with fire here to illustrate to you how it feels!!

Geuze

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road_high wrote: »

Taxes are already far too high. Well past the point of diminishing returns. It’s in the public expenditure side that the major issue is and not being tackled

Overall taxes are not high in Ireland.

Every study and data supports that statement.

They aren't low either, they are middling compared to EU countries.

Now, the top MTR at 50% approx kicks in way, way too early at 35k approx.

Yes, that gives people the perception that tax are high in Ireland.

But they are not.

Anecdotal example: my parents pay 8-10% income tax on 48-49k income. That is very low.

hawkelady

daithi7 wrote: »

With all due respect to you, I think you are the goldfish, who keeps repeating and spouting crap ( your weasel words), along with a lot of totally unnecessary personal jibes while you're at it. You are truly obnoxious.

P.s. I'm just fighting fire with fire here to illustrate to you how it feels!!

Feel free daithi , feel free ... someone posted way back when this thread wasn’t derailed ,that there are a few posters here( you being one of them) that must be FG hacks or such . I initially took it as a joke but I’m beginning to believe it .. yourself , alloy and a few more are relentless !! How many times must the same crap like that nurses are absent constantly , leave to go home in the middle of an operation , earn €58k plus ... I mean , Christ on a bike , even you guys must know you’re just peddling ****e up a hill ffs .. it’ll wear anyone down a lot quicker than a 13.5 hour shift could .

facehugger99

Geuze wrote: »

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Overall taxes are not high in Ireland.

Every study and data supports that statement.

They aren't low either, they are middling compared to EU countries.

Now, the top MTR at 50% approx kicks in way, way too early at 35k approx.

Yes, that gives people the perception that tax are high in Ireland.

But they are not.

Anecdotal example: my parents pay 8-10% income tax on 48-49k income. That is very low.

So they're not high but they feel high because they are high but they're not high.

Varta

hawkelady wrote: »

Feel free daithi , feel free ... someone posted way back when this thread wasn’t derailed ,that there are a few posters here( you being one of them) that must be FG hacks or such . I initially took it as a joke but I’m beginning to believe it .. yourself , alloy and a few more are relentless !! How many times must the same crap like that nurses are absent constantly , leave to go home in the middle of an operation , earn €58k plus ... I mean , Christ on a bike , even you guys must know you’re just peddling ****e up a hill ffs .. it’ll wear anyone down a lot quicker than a 13.5 hour shift could .

That's exactly what they are. It's a FG tactic. Their commander in chief disappeared yesterday as soon as the Labour Court stepped in. Just watch, as soon as the nurses reject the offer, he'll be back.

daithi7

hawkelady wrote: »

Feel free daithi , feel free ... someone posted way back when this thread wasn’t derailed ,that there are a few posters here( you being one of them) that must be FG hacks or such . I initially took it as a joke but I’m beginning to believe it .. yourself , alloy and a few more are relentless !! How many times must the same crap like that nurses are absent constantly , leave to go home in the middle of an operation , earn €58k plus ... I mean , Christ on a bike , even you guys must know you’re just peddling ****e up a hill ffs .. it’ll wear anyone down a lot quicker than a 13.5 hour shift could .

Ha, ha that's hilarious, me an FG hack!? Yet because of this fiscal suicide didn't I just express my desire to see a change in government a few posts back )

Not very FG that hey!?

Look, sorry that a few stubborn facts (absenteeism levels, inflated rising salaries & pensions , comparisons with international equivalents, private sector, etc, etc) are detracting from your diatribe, but that's facts for you I suppose, inconvenient things when they don't fit with your agenda!! Hey?!

acequion

hawkelady wrote: »

Feel free daithi , feel free ... someone posted way back when this thread wasn’t derailed ,that there are a few posters here( you being one of them) that must be FG hacks or such . I initially took it as a joke but I’m beginning to believe it .. yourself , alloy and a few more are relentless !! How many times must the same crap like that nurses are absent constantly , leave to go home in the middle of an operation , earn €58k plus ... I mean , Christ on a bike , even you guys must know you’re just peddling ****e up a hill ffs .. it’ll wear anyone down a lot quicker than a 13.5 hour shift could .

They have this thread well and truly derailed and like you say are relentless. It could actually be a very interesting thread but all reasonable posters have long since abandoned it. A good few pages back I asked one of them for a source to back up some ridiculous assertion and so I keep the odd eye here to see if they did. Not a hope :rolleyes: The thread has now become entertainment value to watch the public service bashing. Some people just have to have a hate target,god love them.

facehugger99

acequion wrote: »

They have this thread well and truly derailed and like you say are relentless. It could actually be a very interesting thread but all reasonable posters have long since abandoned it. A good few pages back I asked one of them for a source to back up some ridiculous assertion and so I keep the odd eye here to see if they did. Not a hope :rolleyes: The thread has now become entertainment value to watch the public service bashing. Some people just have to have a hate target,god love them.

Awww - Diddums got upset because his echo-chamber got ruined.

Alrigghtythen

Newstalk reported that 13 days / month is the standard work days for nurses.

That averages, over the year, as 156 hours /month


A standard 39 hour working week averages at 167 hours / month

The hard working nurses are working a 11 hours less per month than the non-hardworking people

Twenty Grand

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Newstalk reported that 13 days / month is the standard work days for nurses.

That averages, over the year, as 156 hours /month


A standard 39 hour working week averages at 167 hours / month

The hard working nurses are working a 11 hours less per month than the non-hardworking people

13 x 13 is 169. You're not counting the half hour changeover at the start and end of shift.

So they work 2 hours more.

And they work overtime.

And they work a free shift once every 4 weeks.

daithi7

daithi7 wrote: »

Nope I read it, but one opinion does not a fact make!!

(especially when all the facts of the above case indicate other reasons, i.e. nurses absenteeism and lack of flexibility in working practices )

p.s. I made a claim that a surgeon had to stop surgery due to nurses insisting on changing shift during an operation. I know it occured, and assumedly occurs to this day, cos despite all the performance related pay increases and increments, my bet is that opting for this is still at the nurse's discretion.

You don't actually know it occurred. You weren't there.

Inspector Coptoor

facehugger99 wrote: »

Awww - Diddums got upset because his echo-chamber got ruined.

The irony of this $H1t€ when alloywheelnis the epitome of a broken record about the greedy and fiscally imprudent, grab all nurses 🙄

Twenty Grand

Twenty Grand wrote: »

13 x 13 is 169. You're not counting the half hour changeover at the start and end of shift.

So they work 2 hours more.

And they work overtime.

And they work a free shift once every 4 weeks.

A free shift??? So they are working for free?

dodderangler

I work 6 days a week 10 half hours a day with two 12 hour shifts and half day Friday. I come out with roughly same as my other half that works as a nurse and works 3 days a week. Guess I’ll go on strike too

feckthisgenie

Martina1991 wrote: »

There are less staff at night. Patients are more or less monitored while they sleep unless they become acutely unwell and need medication, or blood tests.

In your example of eight hour shifts you would need 3 separate rosters for nurses. There isn't enough staff for 3 shifts a day. With 12 hour shifts you have less rosters. The same staff are there for longer so theres less time wasted with handovers at the change of shift.

Yes it's also for continuity of care of the patient. Handovers can be lengthy and imagine doing handover at 4 as one poster said during visiting time and when hospitals are at their busiest with pharmacy, physiotherapy, OT, SLT, dietician etc still on the ward enquiring about patients

Miike

dodderangler wrote: »

I work 6 days a week 10 half hours a day with two 12 hour shifts and half day Friday. I come out with roughly same as my other half that works as a nurse and works 3 days a week. Guess I’ll go on strike too

or get a better paying job?

feckthisgenie

daithi7 wrote: »

With all due respect to you, I think you are the goldfish, who keeps repeating and spouting crap ( your weasel words), along with a lot of totally unnecessary personal jibes while you're at it. You are truly obnoxious.

P.s. I'm just fighting fire with fire here to illustrate to you how it feels!!

No that poster is correct, it's the same bullsh1t and lies coming from yourself daithi7 and that idiot alloywheel

dodderangler

Miike wrote: »

or get a better paying job?

I was waiting for someone to say that. So why don’t we tell nurses to get a better paying job then? Works both ways doesn’t it!!

Miike

dodderangler wrote: »

I was waiting for someone to say that. So why don’t we tell nurses to get a better paying job then? Works both ways doesn’t it!!

Because they're doing skilled, qualified and tough work in desperate conditions (due a failure of the system) and should be paid accordingly. They are part of core infrastructure of healthcare.

and just to tack on: They are getting better paid jobs outside of Ireland - Part of the problem?

feckthisgenie

dodderangler wrote: »

I work 6 days a week 10 half hours a day with two 12 hour shifts and half day Friday. I come out with roughly same as my other half that works as a nurse and works 3 days a week. Guess I’ll go on strike too

You working in a sweet shop?

dodderangler

Miike wrote: »

Because they're doing skilled, qualified and tough work in desperate conditions (due a failure of the system) and should be paid accordingly. They are part of core infrastructure of healthcare.

and just to tack on: They are getting better paid jobs outside of Ireland - Part of the problem?

So my job isn’t skilled or qualified or tough. Nice try sunshine.

Old diesel

Miike wrote: »

Because they're doing skilled, qualified and tough work in desperate conditions (due a failure of the system) and should be paid accordingly. They are part of core infrastructure of healthcare.

Yes exactly

dodderangler

dodderangler wrote: »

I work 6 days a week 10 half hours a day with two 12 hour shifts and half day Friday. I come out with roughly same as my other half that works as a nurse and works 3 days a week. Guess I’ll go on strike too

no offence but, maybe you're doing something that isn't of much social value?

Miike

dodderangler wrote: »

So my job isn’t skilled or qualified or tough. Nice try sunshine.

Reply to part of a comment and remove the context so it suits you. Nice try 'sunshine'.

Old diesel

dodderangler wrote: »

So my job isn’t skilled or qualified or tough. Nice try sunshine.

We can't make a judgement on your job because we don't know what it is.

dodderangler

Miike wrote: »

Reply to part of a comment and remove the context so it suits you. Nice try 'sunshine'.

Aren’t you upset? Grow up. I’m a apprentice electrician. We work poxy hours for good pay. Same as nurses But do more physically exhausting work. would you all be ok if we decided to go on strike and should something happen we just won’t care then will we? Or how bout mechanics or any other trade out there. Will we all just go on strike because we work more hours for same pay then.

dodderangler

Old diesel wrote: »

We can't make a judgement on your job because we don't know what it is.

Electrician.

Miike

dodderangler wrote: »

Aren’t you upset? Grow up. I’m a apprentice electrician. We work poxy hours for good pay. Same as nurses But do more physically exhausting work. would you all be ok if we decided to go on strike and should something happen we just won’t care then will we? Or how bout mechanics or any other trade out there. Will we all just go on strike because we work more hours for same pay then.

I'm not sure how you've concluded I'm upset?

You're an apprentice, in training, and want to be paid more than a qualified nurse?

Wheeliebin30

dodderangler wrote: »

Aren’t you upset? Grow up. I’m a apprentice electrician. We work poxy hours for good pay. Same as nurses But do more physically exhausting work. would you all be ok if we decided to go on strike and should something happen we just won’t care then will we? Or how bout mechanics or any other trade out there. Will we all just go on strike because we work more hours for same pay then.

Trades people are just important in keeping hospitals functioning.

But the nurses are all angels

Old diesel

dodderangler wrote: »

Electrician.

Are you still an apprentice????.

You say you are in another reply.

An apprentice will always be paid less because you are training and not yet qualified.

Twenty Grand

dodderangler wrote: »

Aren’t you upset? Grow up. I’m a apprentice electrician. We work poxy hours for good pay. Same as nurses But do more physically exhausting work.

Must be tough making all that tea... :pac: