Body & Soul Festival 2019

bodhrandude

HausOfTony wrote: »

Nialler9 just posted on his Instagram story that Lumo are playing the Absolut Bar @ B&S on the Friday! So looks like that area will be back?

That could be from 2018 though, many a time I've been caught out like that.

keithkk16

whelzer wrote: »

Probably comes down to demographics. 200 to me represents great value for 3 days craic in a lovely setting. Have mates that would spent that on a round of golf, you wouldn’t get much change from most good Dublin restaurants. A trip to the cinema will set you back 30-40 inc drink and popcorn, much more for the fancier end, eg the Stella. For partners getting hair done, buying handbags & skin treatments 200 quid is literally fk all.

When you compare it to other irish festivals though 200 is not very good value. Plus not everyone is going from Dublin who are spending that kind of money on things like 40 euro to go to the cinema haha.

keithkk16

Santigold replacement?

BadTurtle

Must be.

MJohnston

keithkk16 wrote: »

When you compare it to other irish festivals though 200 is not very good value. Plus not everyone is going from Dublin who are spending that kind of money on things like 40 euro to go to the cinema haha.

But when you compare to other Irish festivals, you're not really looking at an even playing field. Electric Picnic is an absolute sea of commercialisation and sponsors these days, which really boosts their funding but pushes out any form of grassroots uniqueness. Plus EP has the relative benefit of being late enough in the summer festival season, where acts might be commanding a lower fee. And of course they have a higher ticket price and an absolutely huge amount of people who attend. Plus Live Nation (the organisers), up very recently, could make profits off of secondary ticket resales, because they own Ticketmaster and Seatwave and all that ****e. They're a huge company.

ATN is brand new, but it has definitely erred on the EP side of sponsorship and commercialisation, and they were pretty skimpy on the 'art' side of things last year, so there was basically nothing to do if you weren't going to a stage. It also has the benefit of being run by POD who can lean on the income from Forbidden Fruit to subsidise ticket prices for the first few years to build an audience. They already substantially increased the prices this year from the first year, and I'd expect the same again next year, especially considering how quickly it sold out (and the capacity will no doubt increase rapidly too).

These festival organisers are like the major movie studios of the music world. They are extremely well funded by non-music sources, well connected with sponsors, and can command blockbuster audiences for their mainstream lineups.

Body and Soul is like an indie movie studio, their only real source of funding is their own festivals, they shy away from too much sponsorship, and they specifically target lineups which aren't going to sell out very quickly. Plus they just make more interesting movies!

Compare B&S with its peers, like Life Festival, Knockanstockan, Castlepalooza (RIP), etc. and you see pretty competitive value for money.

I'm not saying it's cheap, but it's never going to be to be able to pull off an indie festival at the scale of B&S.

jmauel

MJohnston wrote: »

But when you compare to other Irish festivals, you're not really looking at an even playing field. Electric Picnic is an absolute sea of commercialisation and sponsors these days, which really boosts their funding but pushes out any form of grassroots uniqueness. Plus EP has the relative benefit of being late enough in the summer festival season, where acts might be commanding a lower fee. And of course they have a higher ticket price and an absolutely huge amount of people who attend. Plus Live Nation (the organisers), up very recently, could make profits off of secondary ticket resales, because they own Ticketmaster and Seatwave and all that ****e. They're a huge company.

ATN is brand new, but it has definitely erred on the EP side of sponsorship and commercialisation, and they were pretty skimpy on the 'art' side of things last year, so there was basically nothing to do if you weren't going to a stage. It also has the benefit of being run by POD who can lean on the income from Forbidden Fruit to subsidise ticket prices for the first few years to build an audience. They already substantially increased the prices this year from the first year, and I'd expect the same again next year, especially considering how quickly it sold out (and the capacity will no doubt increase rapidly too).

These festival organisers are like the major movie studios of the music world. They are extremely well funded by non-music sources, well connected with sponsors, and can command blockbuster audiences for their mainstream lineups.

Body and Soul is like an indie movie studio, their only real source of funding is their own festivals, they shy away from too much sponsorship, and they specifically target lineups which aren't going to sell out very quickly. Plus they just make more interesting movies!

Compare B&S with its peers, like Life Festival, Knockanstockan, Castlepalooza (RIP), etc. and you see pretty competitive value for money.

I'm not saying it's cheap, but it's never going to be to be able to pull off an indie festival at the scale of B&S.

Excellent post!

AdamD

But why does it matter to the consumer whether its a level playing field?

All I'm looking at is what I'm getting for my money here vs elsewhere

johnnyskeleton

AdamD wrote: »

But why does it matter to the consumer whether its a level playing field?

All I'm looking at is what I'm getting for my money here vs elsewhere

Choosing to support smaller businesses is a consumer choice. People will often pay more for coffee in their local coffee shop rather than in a chain

Ricosruffneck

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Choosing to support smaller businesses is a consumer choice. People will often pay more for coffee in their local coffee shop rather than in a chain

I go for the nicest coffee regardless of where it's from.

I don't care for the background of it. Supping on some a Fallon & Byrne latte right now,

4.70 with a Orange and Cranberry Scone. I'd recommend.

But back to the music

grudgehugger

Ricosruffneck wrote: »

But back to the music

I think if discussing the merits of BnS as a festival, you can't really just go back to the music as it's the things aside from the music that make it a little special compared to EP, ATN etc.

Things like the hot tubs in the woods, the whole woods area in itself, the walled garden where you can flake out and have tasty ice-cream are all things BnS has over EP.

Can't comment on how it compares to the other smaller Irish festivals - haven't been.

Don't get me wrong, I'd much prefer have a bill with someone like Nick Cave on it... however if your festival focus is really on the music than put the money into a trip to Primavera Sound or something similar instead.

Korvanica

grudgehugger wrote: »

I think if discussing the merits of BnS as a festival, you can't really just go back to the music as it's the things aside from the music that make it a little special compared to EP, ATN etc.

Things like the hot tubs in the woods, the whole woods area in itself, the walled garden where you can flake out and have tasty ice-cream are all things BnS has over EP.

Can't comment on how it compares to the other smaller Irish festivals - haven't been.

Don't get me wrong, I'd much prefer have a bill with someone like Nick Cave on it... however if your festival focus is really on the music than put the money into a trip to Primavera Sound or something similar instead.

Agreed, some of my favourite times at Body and Soul were wandering around the woods with mates checking stuff out or finding a cool spot to hang out in for a while.

Ricosruffneck

grudgehugger wrote: »

I think if discussing the merits of BnS as a festival, you can't really just go back to the music as it's the things aside from the music that make it a little special compared to EP, ATN etc.

Things like the hot tubs in the woods, the whole woods area in itself, the walled garden where you can flake out and have tasty ice-cream are all things BnS has over EP.

Can't comment on how it compares to the other smaller Irish festivals - haven't been.

Don't get me wrong, I'd much prefer have a bill with someone like Nick Cave on it... however if your festival focus is really on the music than put the money into a trip to Primavera Sound or something similar instead.

Things like hot tubs, ice cream, food etc are all provided by vendors who pay money to B&S to sell you their products. The forest is the location they have the fest in.

Literally aside from the usual things a fest has to look after i.e. security, insurance etc their main job is to provide the Music and Arts side.

Considering the high price of tickets I don't think they should get a pass in these respects. I feel they're lacking and have done so for past years.

That's why I go to EP, ATN, Beatyard, Sziget, Forbidden Fruit, Mad Cool and Nos Alive instead.

Granted for an Irish fest Beatyard doesn't have camping but I think it does an amazing job given it's small capacity, good lineups, comedy, arts and crafts and side funs.

I got two weekend tickets for 99euro.

Looking through Body and Souls lineup, the artists don't command high amounts. Compare that to ATN where some of the artists do command high amounts.

You have to ask yourself, where is the all money going to?

MJohnston

AdamD wrote: »

But why does it matter to the consumer whether its a level playing field?

All I'm looking at is what I'm getting for my money here vs elsewhere

I'm not arguing that it matters to all consumers, I'm just saying that it matters to a few (how many is not really known by anyone other than the people who can see B&S ticket sales).

For me, and I'd imagine most of the others who regularly goto B&S, what I want for my money is not a splashy lineup. I want a lineup that has been curated, rather than thrown together. That's not to say that EP/ATN don't have some amazing acts playing at them, but I think the number of acts that B&S have booked prior to them blowing up big is testament to their skill and knowledge of the industry.

In short, I expect an EP/ATN lineup full of acts I already love, whereas I expect a B&S lineup full of acts that I will discover and come to love.

Also, from my perspective, if we're talking about what I want for my money, B&S offers me a bunch of other things that EP or ATN can't provide. More mature, less hectic crowds; a smaller site that isn't trying to cram a tonne of people in; a more genuinely nature-conscious and friendly vibe (ATN had that last year, lets see if it can maintain); and last-but-definitely-not-least a freeflow booze policy (ATN had this too, but again, let's see if that sticks).

There's also some intangible elements that matter to a subset of people — the commercial aspect of EP might not bother most people (and it didn't for me up to a point) but last time I went a couple of years ago it really put me off. B&S doesn't have that feel (even though they have plenty of sponsors, none of it feels like it compromises the festival, unlike say that godforsaken vaping stage at EP).

MJohnston

Ricosruffneck wrote: »

You have to ask yourself, where is the all money going to?

I mean, I just posted a bunch of posts that imo answer a lot of that

phantom_lord

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Body & Soul is a funny old thing, I've been four times and three of them are right up there in terms of the best festivals I have been to. It is a really great festival with a lovely crowd and atmosphere. I would like to go this year, but right now it is hard to commit to buying a ticket. Line up has been getting worse year after year, ticket prices getting more expensive, they have moved the Reckless in Love stage away from the woods out into a plain open field, they have gotten rid of the Absolut Bar, a headliner has pulled out and no replacement.. They can't rely on the weather being good every year and that being the reason everyone has a great time!

Sorry if I'm being overly negative, I might still end up going but god they really have not done a single thing to entice me to buy a ticket this year.

Yeah it's a great festival and I always have great time, but just feel like I'm getting done if I buy a ticket it for that line up/set up.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I get the general impression that ticket sales are lacklustre this year and this might be the last year

I was told that this is the last year

PabloAndRoy

I have been to all B&S except 2017 and this year.

I think the lineup this year is ok, but I think there has been a steady decline in the lineup in the last few years. Look a the 2013 lineup, Bad Seeds, PiL, **** Buttons, Jon Hopkins, Solange, Kurt Vile. That was a stellar lineup. 2014 was Goldfrapp, Caribou, Darkside, John Grant, Mount Kimbie, Jon Hopkins. Again a cracking lineup.

Yeah, yeah, art in the forest and all that stuff about it not being only about the music ... I really don't care. I think ATN 2018 set out its stall as a B&S challenger for best festival in Ireland, and for me it has won.

Sorry B&S, but I think we should both go our separate ways. I can only really do three festival per year and this year B&S just isn't enticing enough.

Ricosruffneck

MJohnston wrote: »

I mean, I just posted a bunch of posts that imo answer a lot of that

Ok below are a couple of pieces from your posts I feel may explain some of where you say the money is going, if there's something i'm missing feel free to add.

MJohnston wrote: »

so they're taking risks on upcoming, cheaper acts instead.

Body and Soul is like an indie movie studio, their only real source of funding is their own festivals, they shy away from too much sponsorship, and they specifically target lineups which aren't going to sell out very quickly. Plus they just make more interesting movies!

the commercial aspect of EP might not bother most people (and it didn't for me up to a point) but last time I went a couple of years ago it really put me off. B&S doesn't have that feel (even though they have plenty of sponsors, none of it feels like it compromises the festival, unlike say that godforsaken vaping stage at EP).'

Thing is they do have a good amount of sponsors 'plenty' in your words, Irish times, MINI, Verve, Hennessy etc, increased capacity year on year paired with increased ticket prices.

I guess my point is their only job aside from the H&S side of things is to book Music and Arts. You say they're booking cheaper up and comings in place of bigger acts.

I just look at ATNs Music and Arts lineup and still wonder where is the money going?

Peesh89

On a different note... there's talk of Public Service Broadcasting over on ATN thread.
They played body & soul stage at EP a few years back. Might be a nice lil replacement announcement today.
(going to both B&S and ATN so I'll take either, thank you lovely Public Service lads)

bodhrandude

MJohnston just to correct one of your earlier comments, EP is run by Festival Republic not Live Nation, although I think FR might be a subsidiary of Live Nation anyway, great comments though. I'll be working at B&S myself so maybe we will all have a Boards meetup at some point.

MJohnston

Ricosruffneck wrote: »

Thing is they do have a good amount of sponsors 'plenty' in your words, Irish times, MINI, Verve, Hennessy etc, increased capacity year on year paired with increased ticket prices.

I don't think the capacity has increased in a few years now? It went to 15k in 2016 and has been that ever since. In comparison EP is now up to 58k, which is insane!

On the ticket prices, B&S has increased prices around 40% in the last four years, Forbidden Fruit around 55% in the same timeframe (starting from a lower position, but still), and ATN managed an 11% increase in a single year (and is already more expensive than B&S at full price!).

EP I'm not even going to bother comparing, as I think that festival hit a ceiling of pricing many many years ago, and their audience has only been getting younger (ie. less capable of affording expensive tickets). Plus, that capacity keeps going up and up, with fewer proper stages.

I guess my point is their only job aside from the H&S side of things is to book Music and Arts. You say they're booking cheaper up and comings in place of bigger acts.

I just look at ATNs Music and Arts lineup and still wonder where is the money going?

I went to ATN last year, and while I enjoyed it, it was just music and not much else. The money was all on show in the lineup, but nowhere else really.

As I also already said, the companies that run EP, ATN, and B&S are all very different. Festival Republic and POD don't have to run their festivals at much of a profit to be able to put on a big show the following year, they can fall back on other income sources. Body and Soul are entirely reliant on their festival income for the next year's edition.

Finally, EP and now ATN seem to be constantly near-immediate ticket sellouts, whereas B&S has probably never sold out. That massively affects how you price things, because if you know you're going to sell out, you can price things a bit lower. B&S have to price for a lower actual attendance than capacity allows.

Please note: I say all this not to make excuses for B&S, but simply to discuss some background reasoning. Essentially, I think people are totally free to say "it doesn't provide enough value for money for me", but when people are saying "I don't see where is the money going", they're looking at things in a too basic way.

FrewBrews

Just got invited to this stage on FB. Anyone know where it is on site? Didn't see it last year.

https://www.facebook.com/events/2148703648702107/

"The Living Lab, Native Events' environmental activation, will be back in Ballinlough for Body&Soul Festival 2019.

Founded on circular economy principles, the Living Lab showcases innovative solutions to the environmental, social, and commercial challenges presented by climate change.

After a successful launch at last year's Body&Soul and a trip to the Electric Picnic in 2018, the Living Lab returns with the Re:Source market, the Native Spaces curated food line-up, and an exciting programme of discussion, debate, workshops and music.

This year we're delighted to be joined by an eclectic mix of individuals including Science Gallery Dublin, Dublin Digital Radio - ddr., the Climate Queens Podcast, Keelin Moncrieff, Tara Stewart, Cllr Clare Byrne, and much more!

Saturday 22nd June

11:00-12:00 Connecting with Nature & Mindfulness w/ Mindful Nation Ireland
14:00-15:00 Climate Queens Live Podcast Recording with hosts Clodagh Kelly (Swapsies Dublin) and Katie Harrington
15:00-16:00 Fashion Rebellion with host Keelin Moncreiff & Molly Parsons, Tara Stewart, and Síofra Caherty (Jump The Hedges)
16:00 - 17:00 What's on your plate? w/ Young Friends of the Earth Ireland
17:00-18:00 Craftivism w/ Síofra Caherty (Jump The Hedges)
18:00-19:00 Dublin Digital Radio - ddr. - Sustainability in Community Organisations w/ host Emily Carson
19:00-Late Music Programme

Sunday 23rd June

11:00-12:00 Connecting with Nature & Mindfulness w/ Mindful Nation Ireland
12:00-13:00 Connecting to Care - w/ host Clare O'Connor & Barry Lee (Nature in mind), Moy hill community farm, Sky Buitenhuis (Global Institute of Forest Therapy) and Marc Barker (Wicklow Sudbury School)
13:00-15:00 Plastics Forum w/ Science Gallery Dublin
15:00 - 16:00 Grown Your Own Garden w/ Organic College
16:00-17:00 Biodiversity: The Natural Connection w/ Young Friends of the Earth Ireland
17:00-18:00 Carbon Tax Debate / Mock Referendum w/ Cllr Claire Byrne Green Party, Darragh Conway (Climate Focus) and more TBA
18:00-18:30 re:verse spoken word w/ Bobby Fitzgerald
19:00-Late Music Programme

Re:Source Market stall line-up TBA"

MJohnston

bodhrandude wrote: »

MJohnston just to correct one of your earlier comments, EP is run by Festival Republic not Live Nation, although I think FR might be a subsidiary of Live Nation anyway, great comments though. I'll be working at B&S myself so maybe we will all have a Boards meetup at some point.

The ownership of Festival Republic these days is not entirely clear, but I will note that if you scroll to the bottom of the EP website, you'll see:

For website advertising please email: partnerships@livenation.co.uk

So Live Nation are definitely hiding behind the curtain somewhere!

MJohnston

FrewBrews wrote: »

Just got invited to this stage on FB. Anyone know where it is on site? Didn't see it last year.

https://www.facebook.com/events/2148703648702107/

The Living Lab, Native Events' environmental activation, will be back in Ballinlough for Body&Soul Festival 2019.

It was located in the (red?) campsite last year, right beside the little river that you cross to go into the field where the main arena is.

Peesh89

FrewBrews wrote: »

Just got invited to this stage on FB. Anyone know where it is on site? Didn't see it last year.

https://www.facebook.com/events/2148703648702107/

It was a cute lil tented area at the end of the main campsite on the left hand side before crossing the little kinda wooden bridge thing to the main arena.

MJohnston

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

I think ATN 2018 set out its stall as a B&S challenger for best festival in Ireland, and for me it has won.

We'll see how it goes this year. I'm not going though as I was left with a bit of a hollow feeling after last year, the group of mates I was with all said the same too (and none of us are going back). The campsite craic was some of the best in years (thanks weather), but I don't think we had a single highlight that was actually down to something from the festival itself.

Plus the ATN site was just way too much work for me, walking downhill from the mainstage and up again to the campervan site, and vice versa. Too much walking. B&S is nice and compact.

PabloAndRoy

MJohnston wrote: »

...

I went to ATN last year, and while I enjoyed it, it was just music and not much else. The money was all on show in the lineup, but nowhere else really.

....

MJohnston

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Yep, that was great, but not quite what I mean. Like that's just a projection on an old house, which looks great, but you have to walk all the way down to the lake to look at it, and then that's that. Whereas you look at the Mother stage at B&S last year, which had a similarly incredible projection mapping installation, but was on an actual stage, which really added to the raving! Or look at the way the ATN site lead you to a bunch of dead-ends, even deep within the site (this happened way too much to us). B&S site layout is well considered and designed, everything flows into something else, and there's always something going on around a corner. The little bit extra time it takes to plan that out is always going to be an 'unseen' expense. Don't get me wrong, it's not a massive difference, but for me it just added up and left me feeling like ATN was wearing an arts festival costume without really buying into the ethos.

PabloAndRoy

MJohnston wrote: »

Yep, that was great, but not quite what I mean. Like that's just a projection on an old house, which looks great, but you have to walk all the way down to the lake to look at it, and then that's that. Whereas you look at the Mother stage at B&S last year, which had a similarly incredible projection mapping installation, but was on an actual stage, which really added to the raving! Or look at the way the ATN site lead you to a bunch of dead-ends, even deep within the site (this happened way too much to us). B&S site layout is well considered and designed, everything flows into something else, and there's always something going on around a corner. The little bit extra time it takes to plan that out is always going to be an 'unseen' expense. Don't get me wrong, it's not a massive difference, but for me it just added up and left me feeling like ATN was wearing an arts festival costume without really buying into the ethos.

I understand where you are coming from but it seems I had a totally different experience. I really loved it. Maybe it was the new element, maybe the weather, maybe the lounging around the main stage in the sun. I actually thought the space in front of the house was great, especially the bandstand stage (Reggie Watts a highlight for me).

That walk up to campervans from the main stage though. It's nearly as long as the EP walk ... it was tough going.

MJohnston

I don't mean it to sound like I had a bad time last year, far from it. It just felt a little sparse and under-curated, and part of that is probably just because it felt pretty clear that they wanted to aggressively expand the festival over the coming years, so they were leaving a lot of growth space. I think a big issue for me is it felt like a site with two main draws at either end (main stage and the house/lake area), with a long and quite boring walk in between them.

bodhrandude

MJohnston wrote: »

It was located in the (red?) campsite last year, right beside the little river that you cross to go into the field where the main arena is.

There was reggae on the Saturday night last year there, so the late night music stuff has a kinda Port Royal vibe about it.