Marian Finucane Thread

Say my name

jeremyj1968 wrote: »

This is bizarre.

Good incite into the other side of family businesses.

jeremyj1968

Say my name wrote: »

Good incite into the other side of family businesses.

Instead of writing a constitution, you would have thought that the one thing she would have learned from working with her siblings was not to take her children in to the family business as well.

Kathnora

Just goes to show that being the CEO of a successful business is not all plain sailing! Of course it has been a well known fact for yonks of years that family businesses can divide siblings and sons and daughters ....nothing new there! Marian has paid a very high price. When and if she does retire the business will carry on without her but there may still be many family fences to mend. Worth it? Definitely not.

Callan57

That Tory guy begging the EU to provide Boris with a figleaf at the Oct summit ... sounds like undesguised panic

blinding

Usual one sided Rte stuff again today .

jeremyj1968

blinding wrote: »

Usual one sided Rte stuff again today .

A studio of Chicken Littles as usual. Never mind the democratic vote that the UK are still waiting three years to be acted upon. The ignored fact is that the EU are trying to make it as difficult as possible for the UK to leave, never mind the fact that this is something that the citizens of the UK have voted for.

"Well if you don't think you will have to pay 50 Billion then you are WRONG".

And Jim Power is just an embarrassment with no credibility. I thought he would retired his crystal ball after it let him down so badly in 2008. The fact that RTE still introduce this guy as an economic expert reflects badly on the organisation itself. RTE should be responsible for the people that brings on with "expert advice".

jeremyj1968

One thing I remembered from last year - Sinead O'Carroll's online rag The Journal was among all those celebrating 100 years of the women's vote. With regard to BREXIT, is seems like their love of democracy does not trump their love of their own opinions.

https://www.thejournal.ie/100-years-centenary-women-vote-3828133-Feb2018/

Ahwell

jeremyj1968 wrote: »

A studio of Chicken Littles as usual. Never mind the democratic vote that the UK are still waiting three years to be acted upon. The ignored fact is that the EU are trying to make it as difficult as possible for the UK to leave, never mind the fact that this is something that the citizens of the UK have voted for.

Chicken Littles, really? There are actual reasons why Ireland should be very concerned about a no-deal brexit. The IMF are predicting 50,000 job losses and a 4pc drop in economic output. Putting the blame entirely on the EU is willfully ignoring the sheer incompetence of May, Boris & Co.

blinding

Ahwell wrote: »

Chicken Littles, really? There are actual reasons why Ireland should be very concerned about a no-deal brexit. The IMF are predicting 50,000 job losses and a 4pc drop in economic output. Putting the blame entirely on the EU is willfully ignoring the sheer incompetence of May, Boris & Co.

The Eu if it chose to could do a deal to stop this happening .

The Eu has chosen not to up to now . Seasoned observers will understand that the Eu will play their hand up to the last minute . That is their prerogative .

Brexit has to be brought to a conclusion . The Eu can do this as soon as 31st of October by saying clearly there will be no extension . This will bring the decisions on all sides to a head which is what is needed now .

elperello

Former Taoiseach and EU ambassador to Washington - Chicken Little - I think not.

BTW pure radio gold "I was there moment" from JB on the Mugabe dinner.

Ahwell

blinding wrote: »

The Eu if it chose to could do a deal to stop this happening .

So could the UK.

blinding

Ahwell wrote: »

So could the UK.

They could even do a deal which would suit both if the Eu wasn’t so nervous of Britain doing Ok outside the Eu .

Ahwell

blinding wrote: »

They could even do a deal which would suit both if the Eu wasn’t so nervous of Britain doing Ok outside the Eu .

This is completely ignoring Boris Johnson's entire strategy since taking office.

blinding

Ahwell wrote: »

This is completely ignoring Boris Johnson's entire strategy since taking office.

Boris would bite the hand off the Eu for a sensible deal . The Eu in conjunction with re-moaners have made sure the deal is so bad that Britain would not accept it . This is of course in an effort to stop Brexit altogether .

The Eu will only agree a sensible deal with Britain when they know Britain is definitely leaving .

A General Election with a good Majority for Johnson is probably the only thing that will convince the Eu of that . The re-moaners are hiding from an election because they fear a hiding :eek:

The sooner the Eu is made to understand that Britain is leaving the better . Then we will see some sense .

Ahwell

blinding wrote: »

A General Election with a good Majority for Johnson is probably the only thing that will convince the Eu of that .

There's no indication that that is going to happen. Most likely outcome will be another hung parliament.

blinding

Ahwell wrote: »

There's no indication that that is going to happen. Most likely outcome will be another hung parliament.

Boris is 14 / 17 ( depending on which poll ) points ahead of the Labour Party today .

If the Brexit party do not contest Tory seats and Tory marginals then Boris can certainly get a good majority . Not certain of course .

Why do you think the re-moaners are hiding from a General election ?

Do you think they would be hiding from a General election if they thought they would win it ? :eek:

Ahwell

blinding wrote: »

Boris is 14 / 17 ( depending on which poll ) points ahead of theparliament today .

Yes, but it's the Labour party + liberal democrats. The most recent poll - Con 31%, Lab 28% and Lib 17%.

blinding

Ahwell wrote: »

Yes, but it's the Labour party + liberal democrats. The most recent poll - Con 31%, Lab 28% and Lib 17%.

Didn’t the Brexit party have 17% in a Poll today .

Labour and the Liberal Democrats will never form a pact . It ain’t going to happen .

The Brexit party and Boris Johnson's Conservative are much more likely to . If they do the Conservatives could have a good majority .

Ahwell

blinding wrote: »

Didn’t the Brexit party have 17% in a Poll today .

The Uk doesn't have a proportional representation system. That 17% will not equate to seats. How many seats have UKIP ever won. It would in fact split the conservative vote. Labour and the Liberal Democrats would form a government if the numbers stacked up

blinding

Ahwell wrote: »

The Uk doesn't have a proportional representation system. That 17% will not equate to seats. How many seats have UKIP ever won. It would in fact split the conservative vote. Labour and the Liberal Democrats would form a government if the numbers stacked up

If the Brexit party come to an agreement with Johnson’s Conservatives not to run against the Conservatives in their marginals and to take on Labour in their marginals then the Conservatives can / could get a good majority .

If this happens and Labour don’t make a pact with the Lib Dems ( very unlikely ) then it is virtually impossible for Labour to win .

This is why re-moaners are hiding from an election . They are hiding from an election for this reason .

dxhound2005

The SNP have 35 seats currently. Before the last election it was 54. There was a mini Conservative resurgence in Scotland, but they will be wiped out again this time.

A hung parliament is the most likely result. Labour and Liberals have done deals other times in the past. They will likely have the numbers along with the SNP to block any Conservative Brexit stratgey, even if that is supported by Farage.

Ahwell

blinding wrote: »

This is why re-moaners are hiding from an election . They are hiding from an election for this reason .

That's the tory spin alright, but that's not the reason, they are preventing Boris from crashing out on October 31st without a deal and they are succeeding.

blinding

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The SNP have 35 seats currently. Before the last election it was 54. There was a mini Conservative resurgence in Scotland, but they will be wiped out again this time.

A hung parliament is the most likely result. Labour and Liberals have done deals other times in the past. They will likely have the numbers along with the SNP to block any Conservative Brexit stratgey, even if that is supported by Farage.

Didn’t 55% of Scots vote to stay in the UK only a few years ago . The SNP said that was a once in a generation vote for Independence .
Was it 38% of Scots that voted for Brexit . I believe one third of SNP voters voted for Brexit .

The SNP would not want to be taking all of their vote for granted . Sinn Fein tried that in the South recently and got electoral kickings for their troubles :eek:

blinding

Ahwell wrote: »

That's the tory spin alright, but that's not the reason, they are preventing Boris from crashing out on October 31st without a deal and they are succeeding.

The electorate see Politicians that were calling ( daily ) for a General Election hiding / running from one . Its not a good look as the days go by .

Boris is doing very well in the Polls and the re-moaner runners / hide-ers are not doing so good .

They are running and hiding but that can not go on much longer .

dxhound2005

blinding wrote: »

Didn’t 55% of Scots vote to stay in the UK only a few years ago . The SNP said that was a once in a generation vote for Independence .
Was it 38% of Scots that voted for Brexit . I believe one third of SNP voters voted for Brexit .

The SNP would not want to be taking all of their vote for granted . Sinn Fein tried that in the South recently and got electoral kickings for their troubles :eek:

The Conservatives had one seat in Scotland before Ruth came along. They have 12 now, but will be lucky to get any next time. The SNP and Labour will pick up those seats, an effective 24 seat swing in any Brexit vote in parliament. 17% in first past the post, could easily get fewer than 24, for a Farage party.

Ahwell

blinding wrote: »

The electorate see Politicians that were calling ( daily ) for a General Election hiding / running from one . Its not a good look as the days go by .

Boris is doing very well in the Polls and the re-moaner runners / hide-ers are not doing so good .

They are running and hiding but that can not go on much longer .

Again, you are ignoring the reason they are doing it and I think we've monopolized this thread enough for one day. I'm sure everybody else has lost interest at this stage.

blinding

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The Conservatives had one seat in Scotland before Ruth came along. They have 12 now, but will be lucky to get any next time. The SNP and Labour will pick up those seats, an effective 24 seat swing in any Brexit vote in parliament. 17% in first past the post, could easily get fewer than 24.

That was before the Scottish Independence Referendum . Supposedly the once in a generation Independence Referendum according to the SNP .

55% voted against the SNP on that one . One third of SNP voters voted for Brexit . 38% of Scottish Voters voted for Brexit .

There is no guarantee of how these seats will fall . Its a wonder the SNP are not gagging for a referendum if you are in any way right .

blinding

Ahwell wrote: »

Again, you are ignoring the reason they are doing it and I think we've monopolized this thread enough for one day. I'm sure everybody else has lost interest at this stage.

Shooting the messenger that does not agree with your view . I wonder how that will work out for you long term ?

dxhound2005

blinding wrote: »

That was before the Scottish Independence Referendum . Supposedly the once in a generation Independence Referendum according to the SNP .

55% voted against the SNP on that one . One third of SNP voters voted for Brexit . 38% of Scottish Voters voted for Brexit .

There is no guarantee of how these seats will fall . Its a wonder the SNP are not gagging for a referendum if you are in any way right .

There is no guarantee how any seats will fall, but you have concluded that there will be a majority for the Johnson version of Brexit. 50 plus anti Brexit Scottish seats in Westminster makes that much less likely.

As I’m English, I’d like to make one short comment

In the Sunday Times today on P2 -, “Varadkar said, ‘...not what you’d expect from the Mother of all parliaments’.

I always thought that the usual sobriquet was, “the Mother of Parliaments”. Maybe Leo is confusing it with, “the Mother of all F*ck Ups”

dxhound2005

Deleted User wrote: »

As I’m English, I’d like to make one short comment

In the Sunday Times today on P2 -, “Varadkar said, ‘...not what you’d expect from the Mother of all parliaments’.

I always thought that the usual sobriquet was, “the Mother of Parliaments”. Maybe Leo is confusing it with, “the Mother of all F*ck Ups”

Wikipedia sides with Leo.

The most famous parliament is probably the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which is sometimes called the "Mother of all Parliaments". The word "parliament" comes from the French word parler, which means a talk.

blinding

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is no guarantee how any seats will fall, but you have concluded that there will be a majority for the Johnson version of Brexit. 50 plus anti Brexit Scottish seats in Westminster makes that much less likely.

We need a General election to find out . Why are re-moaners running and hiding ?

dxhound2005

blinding wrote: »

We need a General election to find out . Why are re-moaners running and hiding ?

A third referendum would be more useful. Brexiteers never accepted the result of the first one in the 1970's.

Nobody could convince me that if they had lost 48/52 in 2016, that they would not be out straight away looking for another one.

blinding

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A third referendum would be more useful. Brexiteers never accepted the result of the first one in the 1970's.

Nobody could convince me that if they had lost 48/52 in 2016, that they would not be out straight away looking for another one.

There is no way this parliament of MPs should be allowed to call for another referendum without facing a General Election first . They badly need the Verdict of the Electorate before they make any decisions . They are a rum lot :eek:

dxhound2005

blinding wrote: »

There is no way this parliament of MPs should be allowed to call for another referendum without facing a General Election first . They badly need the Verdict of the Electorate before they make any decisions . They are a rum lot :eek:

We did it here for Lisbon. If the first result had been allowed stand we would have been forced to leave the EU.

Every other member state ratified Lisbon through their representative democracies. A snapshot of the electorate should not be given the chance to decide such big issues for all time. 37% of those entitled to vote in the UK went for Brexit.

If the Conservatives or another party had campaigned for Brexit, and got a majority, fair enough. But a Yes/No referendum is not the way to decide something which takes thousands of pages of text to explain.

blinding

dxhound2005 wrote: »

We did it here for Lisbon. If the first result had been allowed stand we would have been forced to leave the EU.

Every other member state ratified Lisbon through their representative democracies. A snapshot of the electorate should not be given the chance to decide such big issues for all time. 37% of those entitled to vote in the UK went for Brexit.

If the Conservatives or another party had campaigned for Brexit, and got a majority, fair enough. But a Yes/No referendum is not the way to decide something which takes thousands of pages of text to explain.

Its obvious that the Electorate need to give their verdict on this Parliament of MPs .

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Wikipedia sides with Leo.

The most famous parliament is probably the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which is sometimes called the "Mother of all Parliaments". The word "parliament" comes from the French word parler, which means a talk.

I stand corrected. So much for Grammar School education! I still think it’s the mother of all f*ck ups, though!

Ahwell

blinding wrote: »

Shooting the messenger that does not agree with your view .

What? There was no shooting of any messenger. All the opposition parties are open to an election once a bill to ban a no-deal exit is in place and it can no longer be scuppered by Boris. To say they are "running/hiding" from an election is disingenuous.

Callan57

blinding wrote: »

We need a General election to find out . Why are re-moaners running and hiding ?

Maybe for the same reason the Leavers are running & hiding from giving the people the option to change their mind now that they know they were lied to repeatedly :rolleyes:

blinding

Callan57 wrote: »

Maybe for the same reason the Leavers are running & hiding from giving the people the option to change their mind now that they know they were lied to repeatedly :rolleyes:

If in the unlikely event re-moaners win a General Election they can present legislation for another referendum if they so please . If they continue to run and hide from the electorate then they can hardly expect any respect .

Dan Jaman

blinding wrote: »

Labour and the Liberal Democrats will never form a pact . It ain’t going to happen .

Funny, I must be imagining the Lib-Lab Pact of the 1970s, and history says you've been wrong on more than one occasion.

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lib%E2%80%93Lab_pact

Dan Jaman

dxhound2005 wrote: »

But a Yes/No referendum is not the way to decide something which takes thousands of pages of text to explain.

Leaving aside the utter absurdity of racists and half-wits deciding the fate of the nation, the greater absurdity is that there was no super-majority stipulated in the framing of the referendum. Apart, of course, from the simple and undeniable fact of the referendum being - in black and white - an advisory poll.


If a clear 66% of the voting public had said 'OUT', I'd have gone along with it, grumbling and cursing them, but would have accepted it.

blinding

Dan Jaman wrote: »

Funny, I must be imagining the Lib-Lab Pact of the 1970s, and history says you've been wrong on more than one occasion.

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lib%E2%80%93Lab_pact

Jeremy Corbyn and Jo Swinson to form an alliance . I just can’t see it .

Why would those former Labour MPs join a party that would form an alliance with Jeremy Corbyn :eek::eek:

blinding

Dan Jaman wrote: »

Leaving aside the utter absurdity of racists and half-wits deciding the fate of the nation, the greater absurdity is that there was no super-majority stipulated in the framing of the referendum. Apart, of course, from the simple and undeniable fact of the referendum being - in black and white - an advisory poll.


If a clear 66% of the voting public had said 'OUT', I'd have gone along with it, grumbling and cursing them, but would have accepted it.

Democracy is 50% + 1 .

Democracy will win out in Britain . That is why Britain will leave the Eu .

Surely you’d want 66% to Vote to remain in the Most Glorious Eu;););)

JoeCasey

People only seem to like a democratic vote when it lands in their Favour.

blinding

JoeCasey wrote: »

People only seem to like a democratic vote when it lands in their Favour.

The re-moaners in Britain have rejected Democracy in favour of the Eu .

Giving up your democracy for an institution like the Eu is insane ,

plodder

blinding wrote: »

Democracy is 50% + 1 .

There are many flavours of democracy, but saying "stuff the 50% -1" is really majoritarianism; what you used to have in NI for example.

When it comes to really complicated questions like Brexit, you make sure the electorate understands what they are voting for and are given enough options that actually reflect the real choices.

The fact that Brexit is falling apart because the choice given to the electorate wasn't broad enough, should be obvious to anyone with more than one brain cell by this stage.

blinding

plodder wrote: »

There are many flavours of democracy, but saying "stuff the 50% -1" is really majoritarianism; what you used to have in NI for example.

When it comes to really complicated questions like Brexit, you make sure the electorate understands what they are voting for and are given enough options that actually reflect the real choices.

The fact that Brexit is falling apart because the choice given to the electorate wasn't broad enough, should be obvious to anyone with more than one brain cell by this stage.

So 66% needed to stay in the Eu would be good then

Of course you would need 66% to let the Eu have so much interference in your Country .;)

plodder

blinding wrote: »

So 66% needed to stay in the Eu would be good then

Of course you would need 66% to let the Eu have so much interference in your Country .;)

I think a multi-choice referendum would have been, or might still be a better idea. Force people to vote for something specific (eg no-deal, or the May deal) and use STV rules, (which was invented by an English man, I might add ) So, 50% or 66% would be irrelevant.

So, voters could say things like

- I want no-deal, and no other option
- I want the May deal. If I can't have that I prefer to remain
- I want to remain and prefer the May deal otherwise.

STV could deliver a very significant majority of the electorate around some more nuanced cross section of options like the above.

blinding

blinding wrote: »

Why would those former Labour MPs join a party that would form an alliance with Jeremy Corbyn :eek::eek:

Have you heard of Dessie O'Malley and the FF-PD coalition from 1989?

Of course ex Labour MPs would bite their tongues join a coalition with Labour. It might not be comfortable but, to borrow once again from the PDs, the worst day in Government is better than the best day in opposition.