Should cycling two abreast be allowed?

amcalester

amcalester wrote: »

Some may, I’m not foolish enough to say it never happens. It just doesn’t happen as much as people claim, the roads just aren’t wide enough for 3 - 4 cyclists to travel side by side.

It happens to me regularly in my area- but that may not be a nationwide experience and I'm not claiming for an instant that it is- I'm not for 1 minute "putting down all cyclists" - I've many great experiences of driving behind cyclists in groups and individuals. But also some horror stories, too many in recent times- I think it's as a result in the growing popularity of cycling and there's just too many people out there who don't know what they're doing or should be doing on country roads.

Fighting Tao

Deleted User wrote: »

It happens to me regularly in my area- but that may not be a nationwide experience and I'm not claiming for an instant that it is- I'm not for 1 minute "putting down all cyclists" - I've many great experiences of driving behind cyclists in groups and individuals. But also some horror stories, too many in recent times- I think it's as a result in the growing popularity of cycling and there's just too many people out there who don't know what they're doing or should be doing on country roads.

Go on then. What is your area and we can check it out for ourselves and report back.

Sweetemotion

John_Rambo wrote: »

There's a much much much bigger group of motorists that don't know what they're doing that cause much bigger problems and fatalities on country roads.

And they can be fined and penalised for doing so. Cyclists who break the rules of the road and hold a driving license should get points for doing so and those that don't have a license should have those points put on when they do get one.

tuxy

tuxy wrote: »

I'd actually be in favour of making it mandatory to join a cycling club that is a member of cycling Ireland. Plenty of great clubs that could give these people advice and if they wear the club jersey you have someone to report dangerous cycling to. Very affordable too <€100 a year.

A hard one to legislate for but highly recommended to be encouraged. I don't "hate" cyclists, like some drivers may, but there's a certain amount of idiocy out there, especially on country roads- no lights, dark clothing, that sort of thing. Similar to pedestrians who actually should know better. Cyclists are only passing through but pedestrians tend to be local to the area so should be prepared.

Fighting Tao

Sweetemotion wrote: »

And they can be fined and penalised for doing so. Cyclists who break the rules of the road and hold a driving license should get points for doing so and those that don't have a license should have those points put on when the do get a one.

Have a look at the cycling forum and you will see that virtually everyone is in favour of the laws of the road been enforced for everyone. There is no point in creating new laws when current ones are sufficient but are not being enforced for people in any modes of transport.

Fighting Tao

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Go on then. What is your area and we can check it out for ourselves and report back.

Ireland

Fighting Tao

Deleted User wrote: »

A hard one to legislate for but highly recommended to be encouraged. I don't "hate" cyclists, like some drivers may, but there's a certain amount of idiocy out there, especially on country roads- no lights, dark clothing, that sort of thing. Similar to pedestrians who actually should know better. Cyclists are only passing through but pedestrians tend to be local to the area so should be prepared.

BINGO!!!!!!! What do I win?

flange888

Yes it should and I'll tell you why, for two reasons;
1. Cycling two abreast makes the group more compact and allows cars to overtake much more easily.
2. Cycling is great for the head and what makes it even better is the social element, going out for a spin on the bike with a group of people is much more enjoyable when you can have a good chin wag at the same time, very hard to do that when in single file.

Seth Brundle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously though, every weekend, narrow country roads, continuous white line- especially Sundays, 3-4 abreast is the norm in my experience. It's recommended that cyclists refrain from two abreast on such roads but in my very humble experience, they don't revert to single file on these roads.

Do you know what the continuous white line means?

Fighting Tao

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland

Yeah, like practically everyone posting here and that's what make your claims sound really spurious.

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Do you know what the continuous white line means?

I do indeed

*Get's popcorn*

AndrewJRenko

Wombatman wrote: »

Should out of competition cycling, two abreast, be allowed on public roads?

Should motorists be allowed drive around with an empty armchair beside them and an empty couch behind them?

Wombatman wrote: »

Garda say cycling two abreast should only occur when safe to do so and in some locations it should not be done at all.

What 'Garda say' doesn't make the law.

Beasty

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What 'Garda say' doesn't make the law.

May not make it law, but it makes sense to follow the "recommendation" to do so only where it is safe to do so

MaryBrosnan

We must all share the roads.

Sweetemotion

Beasty wrote: »

May not make it law, but it makes sense to follow the "recommendation" to do so only where it is safe to do so

That's like saying. If I feel comfortable driving at only 40km on a motorway it's ok, because feck everyone else as long as I'm safe.

tuxy

Sweetemotion wrote: »

That's like saying. If I feel comfortable driving at only 40km on a motorway it's ok, because feck everyone else as long as I'm safe.

But that's not safe for you or anyone else........

AndrewJRenko

Beasty wrote: »

May not make it law, but it makes sense to follow the "recommendation" to do so only where it is safe to do so

I've never heard of cyclists killing anyone as a result of cycling two abreast. It seems like an inherently safe activity to me.

MaryBrosnan wrote: »

We must all share the roads.

Indeed we must.

Sweetemotion

tuxy wrote: »

But that's not safe for you or anyone else........

Exactly my point.

Weepsie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously though, every weekend, narrow country roads, continuous white line- especially Sundays, 3-4 abreast is the norm in my experience. It's recommended that cyclists refrain from two abreast on such roads but in my very humble experience, they don't revert to single file on these roads.

.

I bet it isn't. A group of only 4 cyclists can look like 3 abreast of they are not perfectly aligned.

What people perceive as 3-4 abreast is mostly absolute bs, and a handy line to bandy about. Its generally a group, of 2 abreast cyclists that look otherwise.

Wombatman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Indeed we must.

For transport yes, but for socialising?

Fighting Tao

Wombatman wrote: »

For transport yes, but for socialising?

People go for a drive. So why can’t people go for a cycle?

AndrewJRenko

Wombatman wrote: »

For transport yes, but for socialising?

Do we get to judge the purpose of each other's journeys now? Do drivers driving to the pub or cinema need to pull over to let faster commuting cyclists through? Do coaches of tourists need to pull over to let commuting cyclists through?

How's this novel approach going to work?

AndrewJRenko

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Inconsiderate people are the problem, not the mode of transport.

It's hard to take complaints of being inconsiderate seriously from those who drive around with four empty seats complaining about others taking up space.

Wombatman

Fighting Tao wrote: »

People go for a drive. So why can’t people go for a cycle?

This is not about trying to prevent cyclists from using the road.

AndrewJRenko

Wombatman wrote: »

This is not about trying to prevent cyclists from using the road.

So what is it about, given the context of about 150 killed on the road last year?

Sam Hain

Weepsie wrote: »

I bet it isn't. A group of only 4 cyclists can look like 3 abreast of they are not perfectly aligned.

What people perceive as 3-4 abreast is mostly absolute bs, and a handy line to bandy about. Its generally a group, of 2 abreast cyclists that look otherwise.

An optical illusion due to distorted alignment. Erm, that's interesting.

Sam Hain

flange888 wrote: »

Yes it should and I'll tell you why, for two reasons;
1. Cycling two abreast makes the group more compact and allows cars to overtake much more easily.
2. Cycling is great for the head and what makes it even better is the social element, going out for a spin on the bike with a group of people is much more enjoyable when you can have a good chin wag at the same time, very hard to do that when in single file.

Your second point makes me want to vomit.

Wombatman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So what is it about, given the context of about 150 killed on the road last year?

That's not the context. More like optimum use of our roads . You don't cycle two abreast in gridlocked city traffic do you? That would be sub optimal.

Hurrache

Sam Hain wrote: »

Your second point makes me want to vomit.

You should get out for a cycle, it'll make you feel better about yourself.

Hurrache

Wombatman wrote: »

That's not the context. More like optimum use of our roads . You don't cycle two abreast in gridlocked city traffic do you? That would be sub optimal.

And single occupancy cars, cars of any kind actually, are optimal use of road space in gridlocked cities?

Wombatman

Hurrache wrote: »

And single occupancy cars, cars of any kind actually, are optimal use of road space in gridlocked cities?

Did I say they were?

Sam Hain

Hurrache wrote: »

You should get out for a cycle, it'll make you feel better about yourself.

Don't need to, just seeing the groups of middle aged men in unflattering Spandex I see hogging seats in every cafe up and down the country every Sunday makes me feel great about myself.

Weepsie

Sam Hain wrote: »

An optical illusion due to distorted alignment. Erm, that's interesting.

It is interesting. If I wasn't on mobile I'd be able to link to some examples. It's not just an opinion, it very definitely happens

tuxy

Sam Hain wrote: »

Don't need to, just seeing the groups of middle aged men in unflattering Spandex I see hogging seats in every cafe up and down the country every Sunday makes me feel great about myself.

So seeing people out and about enjoying themselves also makes you happy. That's the spirit!

MaryBrosnan

Once I don’t see VPL I’m happy.

Teddy Daniels

Branson Angry Circus wrote: »

Absolutely no way should it be allowed, causing needless hold ups for cars and other vehicles where you could get past one easily but two abreast makes it too tight to get past with oncoming traffic.

How much room do you give a single cyclist when you overtake ?
I always cross to the other side to over take any other road user be it a cyclist a horse or a tractor but I see many people who seem to think if they are a foot away it’s ok to squeeze through!

jimd2

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's hard to take complaints of being inconsiderate seriously from those who drive around with four empty seats complaining about others taking up space.

Brain dead post.

Are you seriously expecting people to take spare seats out of a car when one is driving somewhere on their own?

Do you drive on your own and do you do that?

jimd2

Sam Hain wrote: »

Don't need to, just seeing the groups of middle aged men in unflattering Spandex I see hogging seats in every cafe up and down the country every Sunday makes me feel great about myself.

I actually think cycle groups like this are good for local economies down the country and are great business for some small cafe owners.

Fighting Tao

Wombatman wrote: »

This is not about trying to prevent cyclists from using the road.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth now.

AndrewJRenko

jimd2 wrote: »

Brain dead post.

Are you seriously expecting people to take spare seats out of a car when one is driving somewhere on their own?

Do you drive on your own and do you do that?

I think you've got the wrong end of the (gear) stick.

The issue isn't about whether the seats are installed or not. The issue is about choosing a mode of transport that inherently involves driving round with four empty seats, while simultaneously complaining about others taking up too much space on the road, especially when these drivers have deliberately chosen to buy larger and larger vehicles that take up even more space for their empty seats. Do you see the hypocrisy involved now, or do I need to spell it out further?

It's just a bit greedy.

AndrewJRenko

MaryBrosnan wrote: »

Once I don’t see VPL I’m happy.

I generally find it easy to avoid seeing VPL by not staring at people's arses. Have you tried that technique?

AndrewJRenko

Sam Hain wrote: »

Don't need to, just seeing the groups of middle aged men in unflattering Spandex I see hogging seats in every cafe up and down the country every Sunday makes me feel great about myself.

Is this Schrodinger's cyclists, simultaneously impairing optimum road use AND hogging seats in 'every café' in the country? Have they mastered the art of bi-location or what?

Do you have the same concerns about middle aged mammies in unflattering Spandex for their coffee morning after the school run and Lidl?

AndrewJRenko

Wombatman wrote: »

That's not the context. More like optimum use of our roads . You don't cycle two abreast in gridlocked city traffic do you? That would be sub optimal.

That most certainly is the context. You can of course choose to ignore the context if you wish, but that doesn't change the context. It's a bit of a "Nero fiddling while Rome is burning" situation, that you want to divert regulators and policy makers away from reducing the death toll on the roads to deal with the most trivial and minor of issues on the road instead.

Maybe it's just pay back for all the cars that jam up the roads from Monday to Friday?

Pinch Flat

Ah Ireland and cyclists. People will sit for hours like lemmings in their cars in traffic jams they’ve helped create, yet coming across cyclists travelling legally and safely two abreast and people lose their mind.

Bit surprised there’s no mention of mandatory “road tax”, insurance or red light breaking at this point. Early days yet though.

RacoonQueen

jimd2 wrote: »

I actually think cycle groups like this are good for local economies down the country and are great business for some small cafe owners.

They sure are, so much so that a fair few cafes make provisions for cyclists (pumps, offering spare tubes for free, facilities to refill bottles etc).

Fighting Tao

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is this Schrodinger's cyclists, simultaneously impairing optimum road use AND hogging seats in 'every café' in the country? Have they mastered the art of bi-location or what?

Do you have the same concerns about middle aged mammies in unflattering Spandex for their coffee morning after the school run and Lidl?

He sounds like another of those guys that can’t stop staring at men’s crotches in cafes.

Graces7

mikhail wrote: »

Seems like you've little enough to be worrying you. I literally can't remember the last time I met a pair of cyclists riding abreast. I'm fairly sure that I had overtaken them seconds later though.

It gets risky on narrow winding rural lanes. You drive even slowly round a bend and two abreast is chancy. Most single out thankfully, On many lanes even one means doodling behind him and if uphlll..

So no.. single file please at least on narrow rural lanes

TCM

Absolutely not. Two abreast usually means middle of the road with no regard for other road users. It's often "we'll show them" type of attitute.

The Bishop Basher

mrcheez wrote: »

Ooh ooh another cyclist thread..has anyone said "red lights" yet???

Or road tax?

Or Joe?

Ironically enough you're not only the first but the one and only.

Well done.

Pinch Flat

TCM wrote: »

Absolutely not. Two abreast usually means middle of the road with no regard for other road users. It's often "we'll show them" type of attitute.

If it’s “we’ll show them to pass a few humans safely”, then mea culpa. Realise the group think is to blast by without a jot of thought.