3.5 year old a nightmare to deal with at moment - HELP!!

Dardania

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Had this with ours as well OP. We found a ‘naughty step’ on the stairs very effective. Put them there when they start their tantrum and say you’ll be back in a couple of minutes when she has calmed down. Stay in the vicinity where she knows you are but ignore her while the kicking and screaming continues. There will be fierce resistance initially so persistence is vital, every time they get off put them back and don’t engage until they have calmed down and understand they are not getting their way.

After a couple of episodes she’ll know you won’t give in and will calm down much quicker in order to get off the step. I think we saw it on Nanny 911 or one of those programmes. Worked a treat for us anyway.

Oh yes, plus + on that. Works great for us too. We got a little cooking timer to countdown - we started at her age +1, but our one is quite stubborn, so now we are at age +2 minutes. It's effective - she often reflects on why she was put there.

MontgomeryClift

Dardania wrote: »

This is (rightly) provoking an emotional response.

The emotional response says it all.

Emanine wrote:

I feel guilty every day when she's crying at me as I drop her off to the minders, but I have no choice.

Does her crying and your guilt not tell you something? I sympathise with this looks like all you can do is find a strategy to cope or wait until your daughter grows out of this behavour, which she probably will.

Someone suggested I have empathy. I do have empathy for all involved but mostly for your daughter, whose young mind experiences this extended time away from her parents as abandonment.

My advice, for what it's worth, is that the parent who earns least should stay at home if this is even remotely possible, even though nowadays it's heresy to suggest such a thing.

That's all. I don't mean to cause upset, but to me it seems daft to skirt around the cause of the problem while treating the symptom.

Good luck, and I hope it works out for the best.

Anne_cordelia

I would ignore Montgomery and Shauna’s replies.

What your daughter is going through is completely normal and developmentally appropriate. Try love bombing, one on one time, positive attention and have a good routine. You will get through it. It’s a (long!) phase. But completely normal. I can’t emphasize that enough.

Emanine

I feel like such an idiot for posting on here.

@MontgomeryClift - you have made this very tired mother feel like the world's worst. If that was your intention- well done to you. If not, please be mindful of your words - they can cause hurt.

All other contributors (especially the other parents in same boat) - Thank you for your comments, they mean alot.

DubInTheWest

Emanine wrote: »

I feel like such an idiot for posting on here.

@MontgomeryClift - you have made this very tired mother feel like the world's worst. If that was your intention- well done to you. If not, please be mindful of your words - they can cause hurt.

All other contributors (especially the other parents in same boat) - Thank you for your comments, they mean alot.

Boards is not a place you should come for advice, it's full of weirdo's from the after hours to the legal discussion to the parenting, it's widespread. There is 1% good people here and the 99% a-holes like farmchoice, he's a right weirdo. You'll come through this, time flys in, and soon you'll be out the other side of this. Just go with it.

mirrorwall14

Ignore the guilt tripping.

Definitely some naughty step needed. Can I ask are ye absolutely consistent with behaviour? Do you follow through each and every time? If we give even a little our three year old turns into a monster. And yeah it would be waaaaay easier to give in most of the time!!

Consequences and expectations also have to be reasonable. Like there’s no point getting angry with my lad if he loses his jumper out and about, he’s not old enough to understand that responsibility but now at nearly four he does know that it must go in the laundry basket when he takes it off arriving home from crèche

How about choices maybe, they might help too. I’ve found that giving a level of control helped a lot. Which top, blue or green would you like today? Would you like to climb up the stairs first or second? Even in the middle of tantrum-would you like to walk to the step yourself or will I lift you to it? Generally the choice is such that I’m happy with either outcome. Would you like your bread in squares or triangles? Triangles? Ok here you go. If meltdown ensues then calmly point out they chose. Then naughty step if it continues etc

Emanine

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Ignore the guilt tripping.

Definitely some naughty step needed. Can I ask are ye absolutely consistent with behaviour? Do you follow through each and every time? If we give even a little our three year old turns into a monster. And yeah it would be waaaaay easier to give in most of the time!!

Consequences and expectations also have to be reasonable. Like there’s no point getting angry with my lad if he loses his jumper out and about, he’s not old enough to understand that responsibility but now at nearly four he does know that it must go in the laundry basket when he takes it off arriving home from crèche

How about choices maybe, they might help too. I’ve found that giving a level of control helped a lot. Which top, blue or green would you like today? Would you like to climb up the stairs first or second? Even in the middle of tantrum-would you like to walk to the step yourself or will I lift you to it? Generally the choice is such that I’m happy with either outcome. Would you like your bread in squares or triangles? Triangles? Ok here you go. If meltdown ensues then calmly point out they chose. Then naughty step if it continues etc

We're trying all of the above.

What we do find is working is giving 'warnings' - eg - you have 10 minutes left in the bath, then 5 minutes, then 1 minute. She complies then because we're not just lifting her out of the bath with no notice.

We are also giving choices, sometimes she'll respond, sometimes she won't.

Dardania

Emanine wrote: »

We're trying all of the above.

What we do find is working is giving 'warnings' - eg - you have 10 minutes left in the bath, then 5 minutes, then 1 minute. She complies then because we're not just lifting her out of the bath with no notice.

We are also giving choices, sometimes she'll respond, sometimes she won't.

Good call on the choices. My folks gave us a good one with the choices - always presume the first answer you need and ask the follow up straight away. S
o don't ask: do you want a bath - instead give them the choice of a bath or a shower. It's similar to mirrorwall14's point - be happy with either choice outcome, and it gives them a belief they're in control because they've made a choice (and unwittingly agreed to the first idea)

LegacyUser

OP please first and foremost do not use the Naughty step, anyone who has studied it and the effects it has on children will tell you that or google "is the naughty step good for children" and you'll see article after article saying no and why it is terrible for children.


It can be frustrating but think of how long these bad habits have been festering it can take that long to create a new better routine for your child, and a routine is what most children thrive on.


one of my children is like yours, she has always been, if you pull her out of a situation suddenly (and she's much older than 3 now) she doesn't like it, like you i discovered it worked much better giving her a "countdown", 10 minutes until we move onto X (X being the next activity such as teeth brushing/meals/chores), that worked with her but not her sister.

Rewarding good behaviour and ignoring bad is best practice and in my experience it works... if your child is lashing out, find out why? is she tired? overtired? hungry? upset? did she have an upsetting experience during the day you weren't told about?....like us kids can just feel emotional or ****ty for no reason too only unlike us they lash out as they have no communication skills for that developed.

Children can also be very basic and usually every tantrum has a reason be it "i'm feeling emotional", "i'm feeling irrationally angry", "I want to wear my breakfast on my head today!", I Have to wear my shoes on the wrong feet", "i don't want to go in the car" or "I just remembered earlier when i bumped my head and now it hurts"

the most important thing is try to keep it positive, your behaviour mostly, try to calm them, and keep calm yourself (this can be super hard to do in these very stressful situations, but if you lose your cool you are only making things worse). I know with mine this can take 30 minutes (it's the longest tantrum i've had with my toddler so far), calming them means making them feel safe, hugs/holding them whatever it takes, once they are calm try and re-negotiate what you want them to do when they have calmed down completely. Obviously it'll be time consuming at first but it does get quicker and easier as they adapt.

its not easy, parenting never is, you might need to put extra effort into it now especially since things have deteriorated lately. But give it a few weeks of this new consistent approach and i really feel you'll see changes in her behaviour and yours. You will have to get all other caregivers on board too but i'd imagine any childcare staff in this situation will agree with consistency and keeping your routines.

you are a good parent and you are doing your best! keep telling yourself that...sometimes we have to look in the mirror and say that to ourselves.

mirrorwall14

Warnings are great. And they do eventually make the association with length of time too. I’ve gone so far as to tell Alexa so that we have an alarm which he hilariously loves 😂

Dardania

Just seeing as there are many knowledgable types here, and further to mirorwall14's point about the little one learning about the length of time - does anyone have any good solutions for the morning routine?
We're running into trouble trying to get the eldest through her ablutions and dressed in time, leading to awful rows. I have a clock en route where I'm planning to put stickers about what must be done by what time, but would timers work too?

mirrorwall14

Dardania wrote: »

Just seeing as there are many knowledgable types here, and further to mirorwall14's point about the little one learning about the length of time - does anyone have any good solutions for the morning routine?
We're running into trouble trying to get the eldest through her ablutions and dressed in time, leading to awful rows. I have a clock en route where I'm planning to put stickers about what must be done by what time, but would timers work too?

Hm that’s a hard one. Our lad is almost four. He still needs a hand getting dressed and can be a bit of a snail over breakfast. Things that help
-leaving shoes, coat and hat in the same place every time
-having him pick out his clothes the night before. Most of the time then I can be telling him to get out of his PJs while I’m getting dressed and help him with anything left (he can’t put on socks yet). If he’s on a particularly go slow then he gets two minutes and I dress him
-breakfast is me constantly reminding him to eat. He gets distracted very easily during breakfast tbh! This is by far the longest bit for us but he isn’t a big eater so it’s important to me

Ms2011

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

Emanine wrote: »

To give it some background, my husband and I work full-time, she is in playschool 3 half-days per week. She is minded by close family friend at other times.

I'm no expert, but I think I found the cause of your problem.

I know it can be hard to live on one wage, but your daughter is being raised by other people, and you don't have a clue what she's going through with them.

I'm a stay at home parent, my daughter has been minded by me since day one.
She is 3.5, almost 4 & she is HARD WORK. She can push my buttons like no one I've ever met. I thought I had a temper until I met this little dictator, even her Montessori teacher has been taken aback by it.
There has been some light at the end of the tunnel though & she is becoming (slightly) easier to manage & meltdowns have reduced to anything from an hour to about 10 minutes.
I'm not sure if it's her age or the fact that we don't get involved in back & forth power struggled with her anymore but things are certainly settling down a bit.

Rubberchikken

calling anyone a bitch at any age isnt a joke and never will be imo.
i dont even use the word to describe a female dog. its an unpleasant word.

i can see that what you think is funny isnt what others would - bearing in mind the name you were calling your kid. i mean rose west. really *sigh*

Dravokivich

Emanine wrote: »

We had a long night last night. We had a family birthday & she ate cake (unknownst to my husband and I, but that's a problem for another day) so she was wired to the moon from the sugar at bedtime (and hungry too, as it turned out).

Finally got her down at 9.30pm, only to be woken 4 times during night with complaints about a sore leg, sore face, she wanted her door open half-way, and then asking to come to our bed.

I'd actually let her in to our bed, but she refuses to sleep when she gets there.

I'm exhausted today. These days are the toughest, sleep is everything when you're dealing with a difficult child.

Hiya, the sugar rush thing isn't actually true. It's easier to say then do, but you've just got to be stern with'em. The more they cry and you respond to it, all they get from that is, knowing how long they've to cry for. She's 3.5 so well able to understand bed time and that you've other things to do. So talk with her about that.

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Hm that’s a hard one. Our lad is almost four. He still needs a hand getting dressed and can be a bit of a snail over breakfast. Things that help
-leaving shoes, coat and hat in the same place every time
-having him pick out his clothes the night before. Most of the time then I can be telling him to get out of his PJs while I’m getting dressed and help him with anything left (he can’t put on socks yet). If he’s on a particularly go slow then he gets two minutes and I dress him
-breakfast is me constantly reminding him to eat. He gets distracted very easily during breakfast tbh! This is by far the longest bit for us but he isn’t a big eater so it’s important to me

I just took a quote from a John Wayne movie, whenever we're falling behind I just tell my son, "We're burning daylight." Recently at night time when he was taking ages to get ready for bed, he said, "Oh no, I'm burning moonlight!"

Tacitus Kilgore

Rubberchikken wrote: »

i dont even use the word to describe a female dog. its an unpleasant word.

It is literally the noun for a female dog. It's not a descriptive word



God help you OP, that's all I'll say - she will come good, just try not to crack up in the meantime. (And try focus on the non-nightmarish moments )

Dravokivich

[mod]

Can we please get over the contentious phrasing used earlier by a poster within the thread. Another mod has already handled it. We can do with not seeing anything further on it as it's distracting from the topic at hand.

Dardania

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Hm that’s a hard one. Our lad is almost four. He still needs a hand getting dressed and can be a bit of a snail over breakfast. Things that help
-leaving shoes, coat and hat in the same place every time
-having him pick out his clothes the night before. Most of the time then I can be telling him to get out of his PJs while I’m getting dressed and help him with anything left (he can’t put on socks yet). If he’s on a particularly go slow then he gets two minutes and I dress him
-breakfast is me constantly reminding him to eat. He gets distracted very easily during breakfast tbh! This is by far the longest bit for us but he isn’t a big eater so it’s important to me

Thanks for that - some nice pragmatic ideas there. Stuff we take for granted are much bigger for children, like the choice of clothes (and that they may wish to have a say in it...which I am accustomed to not allowing time for). Maybe making ti part of bedtime routine would be good, and would focus her o what needs to happen the next morning.
For breakfast, our little one is not a great morning eater at all - she tends to eat like a horse in the afternoon/evening so generally we are okay with a toastie, which can be had in the buggy as well if she's out of time. Does of course lead to a dispute if she has settled in to eat it in the apartment...

Dravokivich wrote: »

Hiya, the sugar rush thing isn't actually true. It's easier to say then do, but you've just got to be stern with'em. The more they cry and you respond to it, all they get from that is, knowing how long they've to cry for. She's 3.5 so well able to understand bed time and that you've other things to do. So talk with her about that.



I just took a quote from a John Wayne movie, whenever we're falling behind I just tell my son, "We're burning daylight." Recently at night time when he was taking ages to get ready for bed, he said, "Oh no, I'm burning moonlight!"

That John Wayne quote is lovely. Very evocative. Really helps value time

shesty

Gonna start telling my four year old that quote.
She'll enjoy it.:D

OP, you can get large sized sand timers for 5, 10, 15 mins. Good visual aid. Now, chose your moments, if she's melting down and you are trying to enforce a timer then do yourself a favour and abandon it. But if you are trying to bring her along with you, something like the timer can be a big aid - "let's see can you get your socks on before the sand runs through", that type of thing. One instruction at a time. "Get dressed" is too open ended (I am having the same process at home here). " Can you try to take your PJ top off/Start taking it off and I'll help you" works a bit better. I am giving serious consideration to implementing a reward chart for dressing here too, with a sticker for each day she dresses herself, because she is well able to. My girl is older mind you, so don't worry about that yet, but a sticker chart could work for other things - I know someone who had one for every day their son didn't cry going into playschool (no it wasn't as cruel as it sounds, it was a tool to help him manage his feelings in the morning).

Actually the other thing I was thinking was to have a word with the school. Last year our preschool did a series of books with the kids about managing their feelings. I can't remember the exact titles, I'll have to find them, but it was basically one book a week or so, on things like when I'm angry how does it feel and what is ok to do, when I'm upset how does it feel and what is ok to do. I think Lauren or Laura something was the author (very vague, sorry!!). Your daughter sounds like she's almost exactly a year behind mine, so she would be ok to do something like that. She is at an age where she has big feelings which are fine, but she needs to learn that she is ok to have the feelings but kicking and screaming is not ok - here are other options. It will come with time, but you do have to stand absolutely firm and follow through on EVERYTHING you say - don't say it if you can't implement it. If you give them an inch, they take a mile!!!

ax530

I would start seeing if being hungry could be a cause it easy resolve too. My children even the 7yo are like that when hungry.
Try a supper before bed porridge or warm Weetabix. Then breakfast first thing.
I also bring a snack an orange or cracker when pick them up in the evening this keeps them going until dinner and prevents evening meltdown. Usually then better chance of eating full proper dinner so won't need a supper.

mirrorwall14

ax530 wrote: »

I would start seeing if being hungry could be a cause it easy resolve too. My children even the 7yo are like that when hungry.
Try a supper before bed porridge or warm Weetabix. Then breakfast first thing.
I also bring a snack an orange or cracker when pick them up in the evening this keeps them going until dinner and prevents evening meltdown. Usually then better chance of eating full proper dinner so won't need a supper.

God I forgot about this. This happens us and if he gets too hungry he literally won’t eat he’s so grumpy. I’m fairly regimented in offering meals and snacks as a resuly