Gillette | Toxic masculinity advert.

magma69

It's just an ad by a company that don't care about social justice. It's marketing. If you're getting wound up or passionately in favour of defending Gillette because of the ad, you've been had.

Wibbs

py2006 wrote: »

The gas thing is, the equivalent ad targeting women and attacking femininity wouldn't even get to the point where it is released and they could get it banned.

It wouldn't get passed the suggestion table in marketing and the guy who suggested it would at best be boycotted by female colleagues and at worst fired.

To be fair ads targeting women in a subtly disparaging way are everywhere. I say subtly, but that linked Mitchell and Webb sketch earlier kinda nailed it. Women are constantly exposed to aspirational advertising that pecks at their esteem and appeals to their herd instinct. That you can find 18 year old models promoting anti wrinkle cream and dolly birds with hair extensions promoting hair products says a lot. "Here comes the science bit"...

skooterblue2

tedpan wrote: »

Any publicity is good publicity, especially if you're Gillette. It's not going to stop me buying razors, blades and foam from them. It's just another way to get into people's heads...

Nike, Dice (Battlefield 5) and StarWars didnt think so. Get Woke go Broke.

I am currently looking at a Phillishave

Augme

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

None of them were committed by me or by anyone I know. I'm a man, and I'm fine just the way I am. I haven't done anything wrong and I don't appreciate being spoken to in a condescending and accusatory tone by an ad like this, just because some totally separate human being who has no relation or connection with me whatsoever apart from sharing the same chromosomes and genitalia has done something wrong.

If articles and videos like this appended the word "some" before the word "men", my and most angry lads' opposition would be gone in an instant.

But in relation to men you said "we're fine the way we are." But now you are switching it to "I'm fine the way I am" or "the men I know are fine the way they are". At least you now agree that men aren't fine the way they are. Some men are, some men aren't.

Augme

nullzero wrote: »

You haven't, but you're saying he isn't qualified to comment. How narcissistic do you have to be to even write that?

Extremely.

skooterblue2

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I'll stick with the Aldi blades. If Gillette want my business again they need to look at their price tag, not their message.

Cheap skate

nullzero

Augme wrote: »

Extremely.

Evidently.

take everything

professore wrote: »

It's grand for the likes of you and me who are comfortable in our own skin .... but young impressionable boys and girls, they believe all this ****.

I have a 14 year old daughter who I teach that everyone deserves equal treatment and good and bad people come in both genders. Many of her classmates don't see it like that though. They could be bullied all day by girls and still spout the line that boys are bullies.

Good to hear this.

It's incredible that "sugar and spice and all things nice..." would fairly adequately sum up what a lot of people (in Western society at least) think regarding this today.

I don't like the reaction to it tbh (extreme manosphere stuff etc) but there is a need for people to wake up a bit.

And the relationship between fathers and their kids (like your post) is central to this waking up.

Cockford Ollie

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't get that from the ad at all. What I get is that they are saying that the majority of men are good...

It actually says that some men are good, but some is not enough. Or in other words, the majority of men are pieces of **** who need to change.

hatrickpatrick

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't get that from the ad at all. What I get is that they are saying that the majority of men are good and it's time for them to stand up and speak out against poor behaviour from other males when they see it rather than excusing it with the "boys will be boys" mantra.

Why should we? Other peoples' behaviour isn't our problem and is none of our business. Should women speak out against poor behaviour from other women? I for one would never suggest something like that, it's condescending in the extreme. Just because someone else sharing your demographic attributes did something wrong, doesn't make it your problem or your business. Everyone is an individual.

Even a man in the ad was saying exactly that , Terry crews, a victim of harrassment himself (from a man). Is that ok for him to say?

Anything is ok for anyone to say, but I could never agree with him. Men don't need to hold other individuals accountable just because they also happen to be men. Maybe friends need to hold their friends accountable, or families need to hold their family members accountable, but two individuals who happen to be male don'e have any duty to eachother or implicit connection linking them together just because they're male. They're two separate individuals. One is not in any way responsible for or intertwined with the bad behaviour of the other simply because they share the demographic attribute of being the same gender. That's utterly preposterous.

Unless you think that the harmful behaviour shown in the ad is all men and nothing needs to change then I'm not getting your anger tbh.

It's some individual assholes. The fact that they happen to be male is irrelevant, and the fact that I also happen to be male is also irrelevant. They're individuals with their own free will, as am I, and I am therefore in no way responsible for their behaviour. They have nothing to do with me and I have nothing to do with them. Why should I feel bad about something another human has done just because they happen to have been born with the same private parts as I was? Unless it's a friend or family member, it's not my problem. In the same way as an Irish person committing a murder in another country doesn't suddenly become my problem just because I also happen to be Irish.

This whole thing is basically about collectivism vs individualism which is ultimately what a lot of SJW style feminism is about as well. I fundamentally reject collectivism as an ideology, so naturally anything which comes with that territory is similarly anathema to me. Every human is an island as far as I'm concerned. Groupthink, group identity and group responsibility are simply concepts which I find fundamentally unreasonable, unfair, and repressive.

Cockford Ollie

It shows on two occasions a black male chastising a white male for looking at / talking to a woman. It doesn't have an example of the inverse.

Interesting that black males, in the US, are statistically more likely to sexually assault a woman, compared to a white male. Interesting.

nullzero

Why should men have to take being lectured to by a corporation(P&G), who's greatest hits include, price fixing,false advertising, child and forced labour, animal testing, deaths from toxic shock from customers using their tampons...

People in glass houses.

hatrickpatrick

Augme wrote: »

But in relation to men you said "we're fine the way we are." But now you are switching it to "I'm fine the way I am" or "the men I know are fine the way they are". At least you now agree that men aren't fine the way they are. Some men are, some men aren't.

Most men are. The vast, vast majority of men are. So to say "men aren't fine the way we are" is fundamentally inaccurate. And those who aren't fine the way they are have no connection with or responsibility to, those who are - and vice versa - just because they happen to share the same demographics.

Lone Stone

It's a video made by snow flake's to offended 99% of men by telling them they have no self control and your probably a rapist, just so they can turn around when they get pissed off and call them snow flake's. Bizarre advert tho some of the stuff in it is mental, evil men !!!

joe40

ceadaoin. wrote: »

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Well what would you regard as the point, if I've missed it? From my point of view, the point is telling men what to do and telling us that we're not good enough and we should do better. F*ck that. I'm fine just the way I am and so are most other men I know. Maybe we're not fine just the way we are in the sense that we're not the ideal male that women want us to be, but most women I know aren't the ideal female that men would like them to be either, and I for one wouldn't change that for the world. Women should do whatever they want, and the minority of scumbags among them don't tarnish the rest of them who are genuinely incredible human beings. All we're asking for is that the same standard be applied to us - we should do whatever we want, and the minority of scumbags among us don't tarnish the rest of us who are genuinely incredible human beings.

That's it. It really is that simple. This ad tells us that we need to change for others. We don't. We're fine the way we are. Leave us alone and stop telling us what to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't get that from the ad at all. What I get is that they are saying that the majority of men are good and it's time for them to stand up and speak out against poor behaviour from other males when they see it rather than excusing it with the "boys will be boys" mantra.

Even a man in the ad was saying exactly that , Terry crews, a victim of harrassment himself (from a man). Is that ok for him to say?

Unless you think that the harmful behaviour shown in the ad is all men and nothing needs to change then I'm not getting your anger tbh.

Yeah I agree with that. I can kinda get the anti feminist backlash when you read the louise o neil type articles which do at times seem to blame all men for the actions of some. The term "Men" as an homogenous noun is irritating.
But I'm old enough to remember where women have come from to get to this stage, there was serious inequality not so long ago. A woman had to stop working when she got married, there was no law against marital rape, to name a few. Girls were actively discouraged from math. That is not even going into the sexual harrassment.
As a society we have changed and that should be celebrated.
The notion of real men and boys will be boys actually did untold damage to boys.
If you were bullied you were expected to man up and fight back. Not every boy could do that. You just had to suffer in silence.
For how society really is I prefer to look at the people I know and in general extreme views are rare.
The majority of men are not thugs and majority of women are not men hating.
This men and women thing is not a zero sum game, we can all benefit in a better society.

Lone Stone

every time a bloke goes to do some thing inappropriate it's a white guy getting stopped by a black guy wtf is this **** haha

El_Duderino 09

Cockford Ollie wrote: »

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't get that from the ad at all. What I get is that they are saying that the majority of men are good...

It actually says that some men are good, but some is not enough. Or in other words, the majority of men are pieces of **** who need to change.

That's the most negative interpretation I could possibly imagine. It takes a serious victimhood mentality to see it that way.

Wibbs

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Most men are. The vast, vast majority of men are. So to say "men aren't fine the way we are" is fundamentally inaccurate. And those who aren't fine the way they are have no connection with or responsibility to, those who are - and vice versa - just because they happen to share the same demographics.

And like I said earlier, where are the women calling these men out? They all have mothers, sisters, friends, partners etc who are women. So Men™ are collectively responsible for other men, but Women™ aren't? They aren't even collectively responsible for other women. So yep, it's always men's fault and responsibility.

So like in the advert, if a lecher paws a subordinate woman in the office, the subordinate men are to speak up? Is the woman a deaf mute? It plugs into something else I've noticed about current "feminism"; that it's gloriously ironic in treating women as weak agentless perpetual victims in need of the protection and oversight of men, the law, the state. Look at the ad with that part described above, yer wan's passive and silent (over)reaction makes her look like she's heard her family have been wiped out in a car crash.

Precious few of the women I've known in my life are nearly that weak. The opposite in fact.

Lone Stone

Mrsmum

take everything wrote: »

Good to hear this.

It's incredible that "sugar and spice and all things nice..." would fairly adequately sum up what a lot of people (in Western society at least) think regarding this today.

I don't like the reaction to it tbh (extreme manosphere stuff etc) but there is a need for people to wake up a bit.

And the relationship between fathers and their kids (like your post) is central to this waking up.

I'm not sure that sugar and spice thing was ever as positive a message as you seem to think. It was from a time when the message was for girls to be nice, and sweet, docile and passive. Their value was in being ladylike. Meanwhile boys got to have all the fun. To be real in other words.

Cockford Ollie

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's the most negative interpretation I could possibly imagine. It takes a serious victimhood mentality to see it that way.

Nothing interpreted. It's basic English.

Junkyard Tom

Barberskum is what the Norwegians say for shaving foam.

Cockford Ollie

Lone Stone wrote: »

every time a bloke goes to do some thing inappropriate it's a white guy getting stopped by a black guy wtf is this **** haha

It's the new narrative in films and media. Black men can no longer be protrayed as the antagonist. White men can't be shown to better a black man.

Bigmac1euro

interesting comment someone put up earlier which had been deleted as it gathered over 1k likes.

From another forum, another user: I work for P&G the company who owns Gillette. I have to tell you this stuff goes all the way to the top. A VP said in a 100 person meeting that she will never promote a white man again. There was a diversity training I was forced to go to that put up 2 pictures , one of a white male team, and one of non-whites and we were asked "i know its an obvious answer, but look at these 2 teams, which would you rather work with ?" Then they hired a black intern right out of college, he was decent but not great, and had his summer boss give him an offer letter. The salary was 15% higher than the manager which had worked for the company for 13 years. The manager quit 2 weeks later, the project they were working on fell apart. I've never been more miserable working anywhere in my life.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Be interesting to see if there’s any response to this in actual shopping habits. Lots of internet chatter.

professore

One eyed Jack wrote: »

To be fair, children are used in all sorts of advertising, the latest one that made me chuckle was the one advertising a car for €20k - an adult male driving it with the voiceover of a child. I get the idea of it, but I’m still not going to spend €20k on a shìte car, any more than a pyjama wearing yummy mummy type is likely to buy one of these heaps of shìte -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDeZV5NiKnk

Kudos to the marketing team behind it though, it’s catchier than the Gillette nonsense

Yeah but that ad doesn't portray the children as damaged goods.

professore

Augme wrote: »

Have you looked at the % of assualtd that are committed by men? The percentage of murders committed by men? The percentage of rapes committed by men? You should look it up. Then you might not think "we're fine the way we are."

Oh for gods sake. Are you personally responsible for everything bad that every woman in history has done? Who raised these rapists and murderers? Do some research on their backgrounds and you'll see a ****ty mother was involved in most of the cases.

Look up Catherine the Great or Elizabeth 1 to see what "you women" are capable of.

Why not make the same argument for Muslims, black people etc? Because its bigotry. You are a sexist bigot.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Augme wrote: »

Have you looked at the % of assualtd that are committed by men? The percentage of murders committed by men? The percentage of rapes committed by men? You should look it up. Then you might not think "we're fine the way we are."

In my head I replaced men with black men and we’re with they’re, and that read as a fairly racist sentiment.

Monkeynut

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

show drunk women from a hen party walking through the town grabbing mens arses.

Because thats ok. right? or is it the other way around. emmm idk anymore. :eek:

VeryTerry

Cockford Ollie wrote: »

It's the new narrative in films and media. Black men can no longer be protrayed as the antagonist. White men can't be shown to better a black man.

Rocky 1 and Rocky 2 were alright all the same.