Gillette | Toxic masculinity advert.

Grayson

Seanachai wrote: »

You're not picking up the subtext in the ad, it's not like the director doesn't have a rep. The message of the ad is that 'we' need to change, inferring that the good guys need to 'up their game' to curtail unacceptable behaviour. As if we're partly to blame for the jerks getting out of control in the first place.



It's a subtle form of gaslighting that implies that there's a deficit with us to begin with, which in fairness is how advertising has worked since the beginning.

If someone sees racism or sexism or anything like that they really should do something about it and not just stand there. That's just common decency.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Lumen wrote: »

I'm sure those rubber-clad Gillette women will be able to find other employment.

Attractive people generally benefit from positive discrimination, they'll be fine.

btw, the word is "affect". Effect as a verb means "to cause", so "effecting men and women" means either making women pregnant or doing gender reassignment surgery.

But they want to be glamour models, why take that choice away from them?

The same thing happened with the darts, the PDC did away with their walk on girls. The chief model had been doing the job for 6 yrs and loved it, travelling around the world and earning well.

She went on a rampage on twitter in the aftermath attacking blue haired women right left in and centre for putting her out of a job.

Lumen

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

But they want to be glamour models, why take that choice away from them?

The same thing happened with the darts, the PDC did away with their walk on girls. The chief model had been doing the job for 6 yrs and loved it, travelling around the world and earning well.

She went on a rampage on twitter in the aftermath attacking blue haired women right left in and centre for putting her out of a job.

Times change, professions come and go. Maybe you should form a union for them.

givyjoe

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I was wondering how do they get them suits so shiny?

Squeeky bum time

Tell me how

Grayson wrote: »

If someone sees racism or sexism or anything like that they really should do something about it and not just stand there. That's just common decency.

Who the f*ck do you think you are to tell me that? I'm just sitting here, reading this thread, minding my own business and I don't need to be told how to behave by you. What? You didn't think I know that. F you. You obviously think that none of us has common decency and we were sitting here waiting to stroll in from your ivory tower and explain it to us.

(I don't really mean the above, I'm just trying to fit in )

wyf437gn6btzue

Undividual wrote: »

Do you think most men currently regard abuse/harassment as ok or acceptable?

Its amazing to me for the message to put any responsibility on bystanders to act specifically because of their gender. I cant think of one female equivalent. Surely as a bystander, you have the right not to act. Existentially, I am not responsible for anyone else's wellbeing except my partner's (arguably) and my offspring.

Also, apparently what liberated women need are men coming to their rescue.

You`re spot on

I was waiting for a lorry to come and get loaded near a beach last year at about 12am on a Friday night and seen a woman that was a bit down the beach getting the head bet and kicked off her by her boyfriend. So I (stupidly) went over and interfered and he stopped kicking her long enough for them to both decide to have a go at me, a few mins later they walked on out by me linking each other like loves young dream

thats the first and last time I`ll ever attempt that

givyjoe

Tell me how wrote: »

Who the f*ck do you think you are to tell me that? I'm just sitting here, reading this thread, minding my own business and I don't need to be told how to behave by you. What? You didn't think I know that. F you. You obviously think that none of us has common decency and we were sitting here waiting to stroll in from your ivory tower and explain it to us.

(I don't really mean the above, I'm just trying to fit in )

Hillllllarious.

Muckka

Lumen wrote: »

I'm sure those rubber-clad Gillette women will be able to find other employment.

Attractive people generally benefit from positive discrimination, they'll be fine.

btw, the word is "affect". Effect as a verb means "to cause", so "effecting men and women" means either making women pregnant or doing gender reassignment surgery.

Thanks for the correction.

Much appreciated...

Magic marker ?

Tell me how

Undividual wrote: »

Do you think most men currently regard abuse/harassment as ok or acceptable?

Its amazing to me for the message to put any responsibility on bystanders to act specifically because of their gender. I cant think of one female equivalent. Surely as a bystander, you have the right not to act. Existentially, I am not responsible for anyone else's wellbeing except my partner's (arguably) and my offspring.

Also, apparently what liberated women need are men coming to their rescue.

Say your partner is in town, and two guys are harassing her (or two ladies for that matter). They are walking behind her on the footpath and making comments which she finds uncomfortable.

She has already asked them to stop but they told her they're only having a laugh and they know she really actually likes it.

Would you honestly not prefer if someone intervened to try to make that stop?

Or the same, your offspring is getting bullied at the bus stop? Would you rather someone stopped it or would you prefer they fought back even though it was 3 against 1 and they got badly beaten.

HappyAsLarE

Tell me how wrote: »

Say your partner is in town, and two guys are harassing her (or two ladies for that matter). They are walking behind her on the footpath and making comments which she finds uncomfortable.

She has already asked them to stop but they told her they're only having a laugh and they know she really actually likes it.

Would you honestly not prefer if someone intervened to try to make that stop?

Or the same, your offspring is getting bullied at the bus stop? Would you rather someone stopped it or would you prefer they fought back even though it was 3 against 1 and they got badly beaten.

Most men don’t do this. You would swear we all walk around all rapey.

Muckka

Lumen wrote: »

Times change, professions come and go. Maybe you should form a union for them.

Time's haven't changed, there's no such thing as time, it's man made.

People have changed alright, and not for the better.

You're more than welcome to give me grinds too.

I love knowledge...

Undividual

Tell me how wrote: »

Advertisement and marketing since the dawn of time has been focused on affecting behaviour. Some show this effect through deliberate decisions to buy a product, some through less deliberate intent to mimic behaviour.

It happens ergo the marketing spend worldwide is huge. Look at the Guinness Christmas ad which now doesn't include the actual image of the pint or people drinking but which inculcates a sense which people subconsciously associate with the product.

Ok. What specifically was this ad advertising? Razor blades? And the feeling I should take from Gillette is what? Shame? Guilt by association?

Lets play out the thought association that the marketers did:

Men's Razor blades >> Modern Masculinity >> Toxic Masculinity >> Sexual harassment / #metoo / violence

Farcical.

Tell me how

Muckka wrote: »

Time's haven't changed, there's no such thing as time, it's man made.

People have changed alright, and not for the better.

You're more than welcome to give me grinds too.

I love knowledge...

Each time I read a post from you, I think that you must have only gotten access to the internet in the last couple of weeks.

There's a big wide world out there. It is going to blow your mind.

Undividual

Tell me how wrote: »

Say your partner is in town, and two guys are harassing her (or two ladies for that matter). They are walking behind her on the footpath and making comments which she finds uncomfortable.

She has already asked them to stop but they told her they're only having a laugh and they know she really actually likes it.

Would you honestly not prefer if someone intervened to try to make that stop?

Or the same, your offspring is getting bullied at the bus stop? Would you rather someone stopped it or would you prefer they fought back even though it was 3 against 1 and they got badly beaten.

Would I prefer it? Yes. Would I expect it, or brow beat anyone for not doing so? No. I don't know what a bystander's past is to assume anything. You could have really aggressive men strolling around, only dying to defend women's honor.

I would prefer my child fought back and got badly beaten, frankly. Trauma is worse when the individual does not or cannot act. Having been in (and lost) 2 fights in my life, both of which were serious enough, I can say that I unfortunately still see the necessity for violence.

Tell me how

Undividual wrote: »

Ok. What specifically was this ad advertising? Razor blades? And the feeling I should take from Gillette is what? Shame? Guilt by association?

Lets play out the thought association that the marketers did:

Men's Razor blades >> Modern Masculinity >> Toxic Masculinity >> Sexual harassment / #metoo / violence

Farcical.

First bolded part - The Gillette brand through awareness associated with the discussion around the ad.

Second bolded part - That it is possible to be a positive role model when the opportunity presents itself.

The rest of your post. That's how you want to see it. So be it.

Undividual

Rowan Sweet Banana wrote: »

You`re spot on

I was waiting for a lorry to come and get loaded near a beach last year at about 12am on a Friday night and seen a woman that was a bit down the beach getting the head bet and kicked off her by her boyfriend. So I (stupidly) went over and interfered and he stopped kicking her long enough for them to both decide to have a go at me, a few mins later they walked on out by me linking each other like loves young dream

thats the first and last time I`ll ever attempt that

Yeah, I love the way women are stripped of agency as a matter of course when it comes to toxic masculinity. I respect women enough to hold them to the same standard as men.

Tell me how

Undividual wrote: »

Would I prefer it? Yes. Would I expect it, or brow beat anyone for not doing so? No. I don't know what a bystander's past is to assume anything. You could have really aggressive men strolling around, only dying to defend women's honor.

I would prefer my child fought back and got badly beaten, frankly. Trauma is worse when the individual does not or cannot act. Having been in (and lost) 2 fights in my life, both of which were serious enough, I can say that I unfortunately still see the necessity for violence.

First bolded part. Stop after yes.

Second bolded part. I've a friend who lost his 14 year old daughter due to bullying. He did not know it was happening until he found her. Not every child will suffer so much because of it, not every child will act as she did. But even so, if we choose to stop violence where we can, we might see that the necessity for it is much less than we believed.

Undividual

Tell me how wrote: »

First bolded part - The Gillette brand through awareness associated with the discussion around the ad.

Second bolded part - That it is possible to be a positive role model when the opportunity presents itself.

The rest of your post. That's how you want to see it. So be it.

Not very convincing, I'm afraid. Who doesnt know that it is possible to be a positive role model when the opportunity presents itself? That seems like the most redundant point ever made.

Undividual

Tell me how wrote: »

First bolded part. Stop after yes.

Second bolded part. I've a friend who lost his 14 year old daughter due to bullying. He did not know it was happening until he found her. Not every child will suffer so much because of it, not every child will act as she did. But even so, if we choose to stop violence where we can, we might see that the necessity for it is much less than we believed.

Or don't stop after yes, because you cant simplify the world to fit your views.

Please don't misrepresent what I am saying again. Bullying is not the same as violence, if that needs to be said. The example given to me was not relating to bullying, which by definition is carried on over a period of time.

Jimbob1977

A few observations:

The standard of acting was dreadful.

Why did the father separate the two boys who were play fighting? They were just playing. No malice.

The white male staring at the pretty woman. Told off by the African American male "Not cool". Most African Americans are born into households where the father has run off.

It was like a cliche heaven

Undividual

Grayson wrote: »

If someone sees racism or sexism or anything like that they really should do something about it and not just stand there. That's just common decency.

I think that's a bit naïve, I'm afraid. I'm guessing you've never tried to stop a domestic argument/violence before?

In my experience it is extremely rare for an intervener to be thanked for their assistance. In fact, you can just be playing a part of their drama.

A girl who I knew was being physically abused by her ex used me to make him jealous (with me nearly getting in a fight with him over it) and then got back with him. Did she treat me with respect? I was a tool for her to get what she really wanted. People are mostly where they have chosen to be.

Tell me how

Undividual wrote: »

Or don't stop after yes, because you cant simplify the world to fit your views.

Please don't misrepresent what I am saying again. Bullying is not the same as violence, if that needs to be said. The example given to me was not relating to bullying, which by definition is carried on over a period of time.

Relationships Between Bullying and Violence Among US Youth
Tonja R. Nansel, PhD; Mary D. Overpeck, DrPH; Denise L. Haynie, PhD; et al

Bullying should not be considered a normative aspect of youth development, but rather a marker for more serious violent behaviors, including weapon carrying, frequent fighting, and fighting-related injury.

Undividual

Tell me how wrote: »

Who the f*ck do you think you are to tell me that? I'm just sitting here, reading this thread, minding my own business and I don't need to be told how to behave by you. What? You didn't think I know that. F you. You obviously think that none of us has common decency and we were sitting here waiting to stroll in from your ivory tower and explain it to us.

(I don't really mean the above, I'm just trying to fit in )

I was right with you until the disclaimer hahaha

People are missing the point of the ad. It's not bashing all men it's simply calling out the types of men who are bullies, cat callers, trouble makers etc. Look at the scenes in the ad where the good guys if you will intervene to prevent a bad situation happening. Surely that celebrates good guys. Privileged straight white males have gotten their nickers in a twist and just see this ad as male bashing metoo feminist propaganda when it's not the case at all. What's interesting is that those who strongly oppose the ad that clearly shows scenes of bullying, harassment, cat calling and fighting make it seem like there is nothing wrong with any of those things.

Undividual

Tell me how wrote: »

Relationships Between Bullying and Violence Among US Youth
Tonja R. Nansel, PhD; Mary D. Overpeck, DrPH; Denise L. Haynie, PhD; et al

Quote:
Bullying should not be considered a normative aspect of youth development, but rather a marker for more serious violent behaviors, including weapon carrying, frequent fighting, and fighting-related injury.

I'm sorry, do you think that proves a point?

In the quote they say that bullying is a marker for violent behavior. Ergo, bullying is not the same as violence.

You can have violence without bullying.

givyjoe

offalyandroid wrote: »

People are missing the point of the ad...

What's interesting is that those who strongly oppose the ad that clearly shows scenes of bullying, harassment, cat calling and fighting make it seem like there is nothing wrong with any of those things.

Christ.. and you talk about missing the point..

Muckka

Tell me how wrote: »

Each time I read a post from you, I think that you must have only gotten access to the internet in the last couple of weeks.

There's a big wide world out there. It is going to blow your mind.

I know, I'm new to smart phones etc
And it actually blow's my mind.
Spent a lot of time out at sea and was fishing a lot etc

So I never had much time to get into all this modern lifestyle and populism.

Made my money though, so I'd be well up there with the good old hypergamy thing

Undividual

offalyandroid wrote: »

People are missing the point of the ad. It's not bashing all men it's simply calling out the types of men who are bullies, cat callers, trouble makers etc. Look at the scenes in the ad where the good guys if you will intervene to prevent a bad situation happening. Surely that celebrate s good guys. Privileged straight white males have gotten their nickers in a twist and just see this ad as male bashing metoo feminist propaganda when it's not the case at all. What's interesting is that those who strongly oppose the ad that clearly shows scenes of bullying, harassment, cat calling and fighting make it seem like there is nothing wrong with any of those things.

As a man (straight/white), I find it insulting to be offered unsought advice. When that advice advocates that I don't harass women and prevent the harassment of women by other men, it annoys me.

Imagine someone you know said "Hey, you know sexual harassment is wrong, don't you?", I'm guessing you'd ask them why they were saying it to you.

Why don't they have ads that say that pedophilia is also part of toxic masculinity? They could have a guy telling a grooming gang that it isn't 'cool'.

freshpopcorn

offalyandroid wrote: »

People are missing the point of the ad. It's not bashing all men it's simply calling out the types of men who are bullies, cat callers, trouble makers etc. Look at the scenes in the ad where the good guys if you will intervene to prevent a bad situation happening. Surely that celebrates good guys. Privileged straight white males have gotten their nickers in a twist and just see this ad as male bashing metoo feminist propaganda when it's not the case at all. What's interesting is that those who strongly oppose the ad that clearly shows scenes of bullying, harassment, cat calling and fighting make it seem like there is nothing wrong with any of those things.

I think people get the point of the ad.
Some might think bits of it are over the top such as the man trying being stopped from following the woman in the street. Are gelette saying it's unacceptable to speak to a woman in the street or public?
Another thing is why haven't they women telling other women how to behave in situation seeing the fact they also make razors for women.

Tell me how

Muckka wrote: »

I know, I'm new to smart phones etc
And it actually blow's my mind.
Spent a lot of time out at sea and was fishing a lot etc

So I never had much time to get into all this modern lifestyle and populism.

Made my money though, so I'd be well up there with the good old hypergamy thing

That won't be hard.