Shortened Notice Period

LegacyUser

hi there,

I was talking to H.R. there a couple of weeks ago and mentioned that I was thinking of resigning, but wasn't sure how to go on with handover to the rest of the department and the person who was to replace me.

My contract's notice period is 2 weeks and this was openly acknowledged by both parties, but the company asked if I would consider 2 months instead, as our recruiter recently left and they were in the process of hiring a new one, so they didn't want to risk creating a skill gap in the meantime.

I thought about it for a while and decided not to resign so abruptly if my only option was 2 weeks and that 2 months actually suited me better as it would give me better financial security. Grand so.

In my notice letter to HR, I specified that my last day would be the date of the letter plus 2 months exactly, as requested. I also mentioned that I would need to work some unusual hours for part of it, as I would be in the process of moving home. Working odd hours is common enough in all of our offices and some people do it all the time. It's mentioned in the contract as something that's done on a case-by-case basis and that it's subject to approval. When asked if I would reconsider this, I said no, as this is beyond my control (landlord)

I was then told that this would not be accepted and that my last day would be the date of the letter plus two weeks, as that's the notice that the contract specifies.

As I'm moving home and potentially to a lower-paid job, I was counting on the extra payslips... I wouldn't have resigned until I had saved more money, had 2 weeks been the only option.

tl;dr:
HR asks for 2 months notice
I give two months notice
HR say "no thanks, 2 weeks it is"
I'm left thinking "what..."

Was the verbal request from HR (accepted by me) an amendment to my contract? Sorry if this is beyond the bounds of what's allowed here. I will be getting in touch with a solicitor if necessary.

Thanks so much!

Diziet

You should push back. A- because HR told you to (escalate the conversation) and B- because 2 weeks is the minimum notice, not the maximum, so you have given them ample time as you were directed. You can turn back and say - OK, I am not resigning so, and leave the notice until 2 weeks before you actually want to go.

But I am wondering, don't you have a manager? This kind of conversation is generally with your line manager first.

skallywag

I would go and talk directly to the person in HR who asked you to prolong the notice period. You need to ask this person what exactly has now happened.

No, I do not believe that the verbal agreement can be interpreted as a change to your official employment contract, but you have been seriously messed around by HR on this and you deserve a prompt explanation as to what has now happened.

_Brian

Somebody in senior management saw this and said **** him give him two weeks and let him go.

OMM 0000

I agree with _Brian.

I think you need to state your case, just like you've said to us. That you only gave your resignation because they said it would be two months notice. You wouldn't have resigned had it of been two weeks notice.

This is why you need to get everything in an e-mail, especially with slippery HR folk.

_Brian

What’s the timescale on this ??
How long since you handed in the notice ?

You could try recind the notice but this cooling off period I’ve only seen as 24/48 hrs anywhere.

Personally I’d not, I wouldn’t go back asking for it back. To me someone has taken this personally and they are unlikely to change their minds, personally I’d thank them and hold my head up like it’s the best news ever.

But I’m very stubborn and proud on these things. Not always the best long term strategy.

Eoin

This is an interesting one. I'd be wondering out loud if they are, in effect, terminating your employment.

_Brian

Eoin wrote: »

This is an interesting one. I'd be wondering out loud if they are, in effect, terminating your employment.

I don’t think it could be seen that way.

OP initiated the conversation, giving the intent to resign.
Yes there was some discussion regarding notice period but the company are sticking to the terms of the contract OP agreed to. Bit anything discussed is as strong as the paper it was written on !!

paw patrol

In a previous employment a fellow resigned...he then cancelled his resignation during the notice period. The company wanted him gone but the legal advice was that he could cancel his resignation .
I'm sure you can do similar and hang on till it's time for you to go.

I'm not sure the exactly law just that one story from my experience.

Eoin

paw patrol wrote: »

In a previous employment a fellow resigned...he then cancelled his resignation during the notice period. The company wanted him gone but the legal advice was that he could cancel his resignation .
I'm sure you can do similar and hang on till it's time for you to go.

I'm not sure the exactly law just that one story from my experience.

I think it’s to do with the circumstances of the resignation. Eg was it in reaction to negative stuff going on at work and heat of the moment type stuff. In general it has to be by agreement (see near bottom of page http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/starting_work_and_changing_job/changing_job/giving_notice.html)

skallywag

paw patrol wrote: »

In a previous employment a fellow resigned...he then cancelled his resignation during the notice period. The company wanted him gone but the legal advice was that he could cancel his resignation .
I'm sure you can do similar and hang on till it's time for you to go.

I'm not sure the exactly law just that one story from my experience.

That's interesting. I had assumed that once the resignation is delivered in writing then that's it, and it can only be rescinded if both parties agree.

You may be completely correct.

3DataModem

skallywag wrote: »

That's interesting. I had assumed that once the resignation is delivered in writing then that's it, and it can only be rescinded if both parties agree.

You may be completely correct.

My experience is that once delivered and acknowledged, it cannot be withdrawn unilaterally. Both parties need to agree.

skallywag

3DataModem wrote: »

My experience is that once delivered and acknowledged, it cannot be withdrawn unilaterally. Both parties need to agree.

It has actually never crossed my mind that I need to formally acknowledge a resignation.

What does one need to do, is it merely to let one know that you have received the written resignation? Verbally is fine I take it?

Tomw86

3DataModem wrote: »

My experience is that once delivered and acknowledged, it cannot be withdrawn unilaterally. Both parties need to agree.

I believe that's the case. Once accepted by the company it is legally binding unless BOTH parties agree to rescind it.

In the case of the OP, unless you have something in writing requesting you make it 2 months then it will be hard to extend it.
I would try if you only did this yesterday or the day before, perhaps see if you can rescind it and hand it in again with the two weeks in say a months time.

As for your working hours, if you are leaving then it won't really matter and they should be flexible once you are working your allocated hours per week. If there is a precedent and other people do it, then they cannot single you out for doing it.

Tomw86

skallywag wrote: »

It has actually never crossed my mind that I need to formally acknowledge a resignation.

What does one need to do, is it merely to let one know that you have received the written resignation? Verbally is fine I take it?

HR or your line manager need to acknowledge it.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

Tomw86 wrote: »

I believe that's the case. Once accepted by the company it is legally binding unless BOTH parties agree to rescind it.

There's nothing in the Act or SIs about acknowledgement, so it's once delivered. You can't drunkenly email your resignation at 0200, rescind it at 0700, and expect to keep your job.

Eoin

It's slightly more nuanced that that (some examples). Employers need to tread carefully around "Heat of the moment" resignations (which doesn't apply here though really).

If/when it comes to court, they're most likely going to give the employee the benefit of the doubt, even if there is no explicit law in place.

_Brian

skallywag wrote: »

That's interesting. I had assumed that once the resignation is delivered in writing then that's it, and it can only be rescinded if both parties agree.

You may be completely correct.

An employer should really never accept resignation from amd employee instead of negative information say a bad review or discipline. Sometimes you see employers agreeing to an employee resigning rather than being disciplined.

This holds a massive risk of constructive dismissal, it’s madness.

_Brian

Yisroel Powerful Apostrophe wrote: »

There's nothing in the Act or SIs about acknowledgement, so it's once delivered. You can't drunkenly email your resignation at 0200, rescind it at 0700, and expect to keep your job.

I’d challenge that.

I’m confident if I turned up and said I had a mental health episode and you continued to hold me to my resignation I’d have a very successful day in court.

skallywag

Tomw86 wrote: »

HR or your line manager need to acknowledge it.

Must this be in writing, or can it just be a simple 'I saw your resignation letter, ...' etc?

TheChizler

3DataModem wrote: »

My experience is that once delivered and acknowledged, it cannot be withdrawn unilaterally. Both parties need to agree.

Here it looks like HR didn't agree, they sent it back with different proposed terms. It's up to the OP to agree to the new terms surely?

What's in the contract is likely minimum notice, not maximum. If they want you to leave earlier fine go home then, but they'd have to keep paying you until the end of the two months. Wouldn't it be wrongful termination otherwise?

rd1izb7lvpuksx

Eoin wrote: »

It's slightly more nuanced that that (some examples). Employers need to tread carefully around "Heat of the moment" resignations (which doesn't apply here though really).

If/when it comes to court, they're most likely going to give the employee the benefit of the doubt, even if there is no explicit law in place.

In those cases, it seems like the refusal to accept a withdrawal is tantamount to constructive dismissal. In a more recent case, unilateral withdrawal was found not to be allowable. The determination is telling:

It is settled law that a resignation is a unilateral act which, if expressed in unambiguous and unconditional terms, brings a contract of employment to an end. The contract cannot be reconstructed by the subsequent unilateral withdrawal of the resignation. Where adequate notice is given, the contract is generally terminated in accordance with its terms and since there is no repudiation the acceptance of the resignation by the employer is not required in order to determine the contract (seeMillett v Shinkwin[2004] 15 ELR 319).

_Brian wrote: »

An employer should really never accept resignation from amd employee instead of negative information say a bad review or discipline. Sometimes you see employers agreeing to an employee resigning rather than being disciplined.

This holds a massive risk of constructive dismissal, it’s madness.

You shouldn't accept resignation in lieu of disciplinary action, but what basis would the employer have to refuse resignation - there's no allowance for refusal in law?

_Brian wrote: »

I’d challenge that.

I’m confident if I turned up and said I had a mental health episode and you continued to hold me to my resignation I’d have a very successful day in court.

I won't pretend to be an expert, but it would be very interesting to see if there's a precedent for this. Everything I could fine is in the vein of the example Eoin post - where the case taken was tantamount to constructive dismissal.

Eoin

I don't know if it's a case of needing to refuse notice, just keeping the door open.

As I said earlier, it's mostly about the context in which the resignation was done. If someone found a new job, it fell through a couple weeks later and the company already had a replacement lined up - then it's most likely tough luck. If the employee was extremely stressed at work, sent a "I quit" email that night and then withdrew it the next morning, then I suspect the employer would want to be pretty flexible.

I am not sure if much of this applies to the OP though.

Cookie_Monster

All you've done is give them the final date you are to be at work, the fact that it's longer than the minimum period is not relevant. if they want you gone sooner I'd be looking to be paid up to the date you have given them regardless. Definitely push back stating the date you gave is your last day and if they want you gone sooner they still need to pay you to that date, whether they want you to work up to it or not.

Unanimous

They are shifting the goal post and you can shift it yourself too.
You sent the letter with a notice of 2 months based on the agreement with HR.
If they say it's 2 weeks, then send them an email saying you are now changing the resignation date to 6 weeks of which the 2 weeks will now count from then.
Send them another email Cc'ing the person you had the agreement with telling them that you only sent in the resignation when you did based on the advice of the HR person as it seemed to you like they would have needed more time in planning your replacement. And that you initial intention was to send it 6 weeks from now.
Try to also seek legal advice because you were acting in their advice and they are changing the goal post.
Your contract may specify 2 weeks but that's from the day you hand it in and you can make a case that you handed it in earlier because from your convo with the hr person, you wanted to give them more time by taking their advice offer of a 2 month notice period rather than delay the resignation.
The only issue is that you bypassed your manager so they can't even fight for or with you. They may even be pulling the strings secretly...but don't let anyone do that to you