Job Path

kylka

Mr.H wrote: »

So you cant get a job with your qualification but how dare they tell you that?

Some of us work in jobs that are not our dream jobs. Its life. We work to pay bills. If you dont like your job the dole isnt an alternative. Getting a new job is. But some think nah just go on the dole and something will turn up.

It's not to do with not liking a job its about being in a job that suits a person would you place someone with anxiety in a job that they couldnt perform well in? Do you really think all the people who quit the jobs jobpath placed them in were to blame? or that they were too soft? When i referenced my qualification it was the disregard and unwillingless to let me look in that area that i was unhappy with and the foul attitude they had towards it. I am happy to work in most places even outside of that qualification granted i have the capabilities of working there and am able to get there i will not waste peoples time when i'm uncapable of certain jobs. I want to work so im moving to somewhere where its easier for me to get a job and have been doing nothing but saving to do it so don't make assumptions. Calling people soft when you have no clue what people on here deal with on a daily basis.

Only 11,334 people out of 206,000 have actually found long term employment via jobpath it is a waste of money to the state i have been with them nearly a year and so far all i have done is go to meetings twice a week and apply for jobs when i have been doing that myself at home on my own PC that runs much faster. I think people who are pro jobpath aren't aware how unsuccesful they have been, they have recieved 148 million between them when only 11,334 people have found jobs for more than a year and people are still praising it, its mind boggling. The only reason that the unemployment rates are so low is because people on joppath are off the unemploment register whilst engaging with the programme. If anyone in here can honestly defend that then go ahead even Regina Doherty couldnt defend that when she was asked 5 times about it she ignored the questions and deflected as much as she could.

Mr.H

Jesus if i read that rubbish figure one more tome. Lets be clear here. Even the rubbish being spouted has mentioned these companies get paid only 3k* when a person gets a job that lasts longer than 12 months. That means that person who would have gotten over 10k sitting on the dole has now worked for a year at least. I fail to see the waste when its clear that is value for money.

People here seem to think its fine to wait around on the dole for their dream job then blame jonny foreigner for sponging off the state.

Also people on the programme are not off the register at all. They are still on job seeker payments. But go ahead keep making up rubbish or repeating what the faux outrage tds keep telling you. By the way i wouldnt be holding my breath if you where waiting for SF or FF to get rid of this programme. Its working. Unemployment is down almost 20% since the inception to jobpath. But then again facts dont hold much weight around here.

kylka

A 9% success rate says it all all those figures are figures jobpath companies have published themselves and anyone actually up untill 26 recieves 107 euro a week thats about 5k a year so not all people on the dole recieve 10k a year. It is not value for money.
Well not everyone is waiting around for a dream job some people simply just can't get jobs due to location etc you say you believe in welfare state but you sure do like to point the finger at people and thinking they are wasters.

Ave Sodalis

Mr.H wrote:

Jaysus i believe in a welfare state but some things i read on here make me think twice about it.

Don't lie. You and a certain other post go around every Jobpath thread (and probably dole bashing thread but I don't open them) and attack anyone who says they're on social welfare. I am not in the slightest bit surprised to see you here, and not in the slightest bit surprised to see you posting in a manner to make other people feel like dirt about their situation.

kylka

People are so miserable in their own lives that they like to pick on others online in the safety of their hidden identity like keyboard warriors the general attitude towards people who claim is horrible but if they were in the situation they wouldn't be so quick to judge.

Mr.H

kylka wrote:

A 9% success rate says it all all those figures are figures jobpath companies have published themselves and anyone actually up untill 26 recieves 107 euro a week thats about 5k a year so not all people on the dole recieve 10k a year. It is not value for money. Well not everyone is waiting around for a dream job some people simply just can't get jobs due to location etc you say you believe in welfare state but you sure do like to point the finger at people and thinking they are wasters.

Ok lets say people get 5k a year. Thats still 2 grand more than what these companies get if someone stays in a job for over a year. That straight away is value. We the tax payer have saved 40% right there. Thats only if its somone getting the minimum social welfare.

Then location. Ok that can be an issue. So whats the idea then? Wait until the job comes to you? Location is an excuse. I travelled halfway across the country to get a job at one point. I had a two hour daily commute at another. If you are unwilling to travel thats fine but then you need to look at what jobs are in your area and not be picky. If you wanna be picky then move.

I am not pointing at anyone. Most of us where unemployed for awhile. Some longer than others. The issue is some play the victim card a little too easy and dont want to be forced to take jobs that they feel are beneath them. Instead just stay on the dole until a "suitable" job appears.

Mr.H

Ave Sodalis wrote:

Don't lie. You and a certain other post go around every Jobpath thread (and probably dole bashing thread but I don't open them) and attack anyone who says they're on social welfare. I am not in the slightest bit surprised to see you here, and not in the slightest bit surprised to see you posting in a manner to make other people feel like dirt about their situation.

kylka wrote:

People are so miserable in their own lives that they like to pick on others online in the safety of their hidden identity like keyboard warriors the general attitude towards people who claim is horrible but if they were in the situation they wouldn't be so quick to judge.

Would ye ever stop. Who have i picked on? I started posting in here awhile back and didnt even know what jobpath was. When i found out i actually git in touch with them and have hired people from them. Does that sound like a dole basher? Maybe i hate myself too or something. Grow up. I am pointing out the rubbish being spouted about these programmes. It is being spouted by people with an agenda and people not wanting to work. There are a lot of people unemployed who do want to work and will actually do anything to get a job. They are the ones i feel sorry for. Not the spoilt ones.

Ave Sodalis

Mr.H wrote:

Would ye ever stop. Who have i picked on? I started posting in here awhile back and didnt even know what jobpath was. When i found out i actually git in touch with them and have hired people from them. Does that sound like a dole basher? Maybe i hate myself too or something. Grow up. I am pointing out the rubbish being spouted about these programmes. It is being spouted by people with an agenda and people not wanting to work. There are a lot of people unemployed who do want to work and will actually do anything to get a job. They are the ones i feel sorry for. Not the spoilt ones.

Have you forgotten our conversation in the other thread, where you showed that you did not have any notion what the programme was about and what it has done? And yet were still saying much the same thing? Your posts repeatedly show a complete lack of empathy and come across as nothing more than ego bolstering, and this is coming from someone who has been deemed acceptable in your mind. You post and I think you forget that it's a real person on the other end of the posts, and that the way you post can have some real consequences. What motivation would someone have if they're being treated like being a lazy piece of crap? Have you any idea what that does to people's psyche? To come on to boards (where it is particularly bad) and get lumped into the same group as the very few actual scroungers by people who have absolutely no idea of your circumstances, and don't particularly care about your circumstances because they don't fit in with their high horse mentality. If you talked in real life at work the same way as you post here, you would be facing a disciplinary, because quite frankly, the attitude and posting style of you and another poster here is despicable. Don't pretend that this isn't anything more than making yourself feel good by putting down other people in a way that you don't face consequences. You don't for one second actually believe in social welfare. Your posts make that very clear, so why you would even try that line is beyond me. Everything you've posted in the above has already been refuted previously and yet you still spout it. You have already been told why Jobpath needs to go, but since your posts have the same condescending manner as many of the Jobpath employers, I can see why you're having difficulty accepting it.

I'm unfollowing this thread again.

kylka

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Have you forgotten our conversation in the other thread, where you showed that you did not have any notion what the programme was about and what it has done? And yet were still saying much the same thing? Your posts repeatedly show a complete lack of empathy and come across as nothing more than ego bolstering, and this is coming from someone who has been deemed acceptable in your mind. You post and I think you forget that it's a real person on the other end of the posts, and that the way you post can have some real consequences. What motivation would someone have if they're being treated like being a lazy piece of crap? Have you any idea what that does to people's psyche? To come on to boards (where it is particularly bad) and get lumped into the same group as the very few actual scroungers by people who have absolutely no idea of your circumstances, and don't particularly care about your circumstances because they don't fit in with their high horse mentality. If you talked in real life at work the same way as you post here, you would be facing a disciplinary, because quite frankly, the attitude and posting style of you and another poster here is despicable. Don't pretend that this isn't anything more than making yourself feel good by putting down other people in a way that you don't face consequences. You don't for one second actually believe in social welfare. Your posts make that very clear, so why you would even try that line is beyond me. Everything you've posted in the above has already been refuted previously and yet you still spout it. You have already been told why Jobpath needs to go, but since your posts have the same condescending manner as many of the Jobpath employers, I can see why you're having difficulty accepting it.

I'm unfollowing this thread again.

Thankyou, you have captured in words exactly how i felt during that conversation and i will also be unfollowing this thread.

Mr.H

kylka wrote:

Location is an excuse, i will use myself for an example, i cant afford to get a car.I live somewhere that has a bus that passes every every two hours and stops at a certain time the last job jobpath placed me in was 3 buses away and i wouldnt get into work untill 1pm they wanted me in for 8.30am and werent flexible so only option was taxi there and back was nearly my full wage monthly. I am moving to a place that has more jobs i said that already i dont need to defend myself and you are pointing at people calling them soft.

Firstly they dont place you anywhere. The couple of people i hired came for interviews and did well so i hired them. They certainly where not placed here.

Secondly its good that you are moving. One person came to an interview and told me that she can only work between half 9 and half 2 as she needs to be at home for her 16 year old daughter when she is finished school. I mean come on. I try to be flexible for my staff but if they are not a little flexible then i need to hire someone who is. Its not personal. I need people who are available in the mornings and evenings and weekends. I work all hours and so do my staff. I make exceptions when people show they are dedicated.

Saying the company you were going to work for where not flexible is a little immature. Why exactly should they be flexible for you? They are hiring you. Not the other way around. You are not doing them a favour.

Mr.H

Ave Sodalis wrote:

Have you forgotten our conversation in the other thread, where you showed that you did not have any notion what the programme was about and what it has done? And yet were still saying much the same thing? Your posts repeatedly show a complete lack of empathy and come across as nothing more than ego bolstering, and this is coming from someone who has been deemed acceptable in your mind. You post and I think you forget that it's a real person on the other end of the posts, and that the way you post can have some real consequences. What motivation would someone have if they're being treated like being a lazy piece of crap? Have you any idea what that does to people's psyche? To come on to boards (where it is particularly bad) and get lumped into the same group as the very few actual scroungers by people who have absolutely no idea of your circumstances, and don't particularly care about your circumstances because they don't fit in with their high horse mentality. If you talked in real life at work the same way as you post here, you would be facing a disciplinary, because quite frankly, the attitude and posting style of you and another poster here is despicable. Don't pretend that this isn't anything more than making yourself feel good by putting down other people in a way that you don't face consequences. You don't for one second actually believe in social welfare. Your posts make that very clear, so why you would even try that line is beyond me. Everything you've posted in the above has already been refuted previously and yet you still spout it. You have already been told why Jobpath needs to go, but since your posts have the same condescending manner as many of the Jobpath employers, I can see why you're having difficulty accepting it.

Disciplinary? Where exactly would i face this? We would firstly need to work together. Secondly i would have to actually say something nasty to you.

As i mentioned in the post you quoted in fact, i didnt know what it was about but i have since learned and did my research. I see lots of people giving out about it but nothing with substance. Just lots of infactual figures banded about.

Its not condesending to say you should consider "any job" if you have been unemployed for lets say more than a year or 2. If your out of work that long you need to look at your own situation and not blame the supports in place.

kylka

Mr.H wrote: »

Firstly they dont place you anywhere. The couple of people i hired came for interviews and did well so i hired them. They certainly where not placed here.

Secondly its good that you are moving. One person came to an interview and told me that she can only work between half 9 and half 2 as she needs to be at home for her 16 year old daughter when she is finished school. I mean come on. I try to be flexible for my staff but if they are not a little flexible then i need to hire someone who is. Its not personal. I need people who are available in the mornings and evenings and weekends. I work all hours and so do my staff. I make exceptions when people show they are dedicated.

Saying the company you were going to work for where not flexible is a little immature. Why exactly should they be flexible for you? They are hiring you. Not the other way around. You are not doing them a favour.

I never said that i expected them to be flexible i never even asked that of them because it was obvious they would never go for it with how the company was structured and the way you are working what you are saying is very unkind "immature" every single comment you have said towards me and other people has been like this and im done engaging in conversation because i have looked back at threads regarding this topic with you involved and you come across very patronising and i dont think i should be looked down on, anyway have a good life, all the best.

splinter65

Walter Knight wrote: »

You`ve got no likes dude :^)

It’s all about the likes Walter, isn’t it? Agree with everyone else and stick to the song sheet.

Mr.H

kylka wrote:

I never said that i expected them to be flexible i never even asked that of them because it was obvious they would never go for it with how the company was structured and the way you are working what you are saying is very unkind "immature" every single comment you have said towards me and other people has been like this and im done engaging in conversation because i have looked back at threads regarding this topic with you involved and you come across very patronising and i dont think i should be looked down on, anyway have a good life, all the best.

Unkind? Patronising? Would you cop on. I am not talking down to anyone. Its this victimisation stuff that gets boring.

You didnt take a job because you assumed they wouldnt facilitate you?! These are your words. Not mine.

I really have nothing against you and hope you find what your looking for but your comments do cause a reaction.

How long have you been unemployed and what type of work are you looking for?

jmcgill16

Mr.H wrote: »

Ok lets say people get 5k a year. Thats still 2 grand more than what these companies get if someone stays in a job for over a year. That straight away is value. We the tax payer have saved 40% right there. Thats only if its somone getting the minimum social welfare.

206,000 people have been referred to JobPath to date. Only 11k of them have gotten sustained employment out of it. A success rate of 5.5% is a failure rate of 94.5%, thats absolutely shocking given the current successful economy.

And all of this at a cost to the Irish taxpayer of €150mn. There is no way to argue that this is good value for money for the Irish state.

john williams

Someone here around start of tread stated that he called back for second time they still had his ppp can't find post now but if you are reading this how long ago was your original time with them didn't think they could hold onto your data very long they are only data processors not data controller may have above wrong way round in other words should this data only be in hands of welfare they are breaking laws by holding onto it

jmcgill16

jmcgill16 wrote: »

206,000 people have been referred to JobPath to date. Only 11k of them have gotten sustained employment out of it. A success rate of 5.5% is a failure rate of 94.5%, thats absolutely shocking given the current successful economy.

And all of this at a cost to the Irish taxpayer of €150mn. There is no way to argue that this is good value for money for the Irish state.

#


You are entirely correct. But am wondering (for myself) if there is any point in engaging further in discussions about JobPath. We have posters here who seem to be employed by Dep of Soc Protection or Seetac/Turas Nua, and they are naturally enough reacting badly because it is difficult to see that your hard work has come in for such criticism on boards such as this, in the media and had the vote to finish it passed so overwhelmingly in the Dail. Some of them have worked well and, as far as they could, in the best interests of the people with whom they dealt. The fault did not lie with them. It lay in a scheme that was faulty to begin with and had no hope of any real success.

Also there are posters here for whom the work schemes work very much in their favour. Had I a business I could get long term unemployed who qualified under the JobPlus scheme (which predates JobPath for maybe 5 or 6 years), pay them minimum wage and get either €7,500 or €10,000 depending on their eligibility, for employing them. Now if I were in that position, I would think the status quo is marvellous.

It's difficult to be witnessing posts which are transgressing this forum's charter in all sorts of ways. But, also in the charter, we are to hold off criticizing the Department's set up and I have certainly transgressed that! So am backing off. Heads banging off stone walls get very sore!

john williams

Is their by any chance a online petition to get the politicions who voted to get rid of this to put more pressure on gov to speed up getting rid of this. .when was the original end date supposed to be for this when in 2019 contract up

john williams

Anyone who might know the politicians who voted might get themy to put on websites or whatever where new referrals stand going forward and those currently on it

Walter Knight

splinter65 wrote: »

It’s all about the likes Walter, isn’t it? Agree with everyone else and stick to the song sheet.

It was about a sense of humor, actually :^) Your comment :”Agree with everyone else…” is also very funny by the way :^)))

mike222

As much as I want this wasteful scheme to become defunct, I don't think it is going happen very soon.

Nokia6230i

As someone who didn't sign PPP and is on second go because of my inability to get employment (there are a multitude of personal/professional reasons I can think of that're hampering me; logistics aren't among them even though I don't/can't drive) my PPP was initially presented to me this time round as a fait accompli for an e-Signature; I declined because my details from initial go were still on it six months and three weeks and because I wasn't happy customers were being made go on their box ticking exercises not just once but in my and other customers cases, again.

PAs don't tell customers that signing PPPs're not compulsory or obligatory and not signing = no repercussions.

Why/not? Financially it's worth 311 per customer if PPP's signed!

Printed me off one to read over it (pointless; I already knew issues I had with it and it's been same one since day one of the company commencing business) and come back to them.....which I did with it remaining unsigned.

Subsequently got a letter from Intreo telling me I'd signed it (I.e. TN'd claimed their 311 for me; forgery and fraud) and was excused from signing for a year.

They've since been bugging me to do their 99 or 100 Questions; have sat down with them on countless occasions in last 4-5 months (Started back with them in Autumn 2019).

Nowhere in the PPP that I did not sign does it say I've to do their Catalyst Analysis; the fact I didn't sign it makes there even less of a reason to be forced to do it.

I say forced because after last occasion I was asked to leave, escorted to the exit and told I'm being referred back; appt. next week and I'll be ripping them, my PA and their Line Manager and the whole Turas Nua charade out of it.

I am engaging; they're the ones who're not; if they were willing to negotiate the PPP and omit or remove certain aspects I'm unhappy with I'd sign it.

But with TN, and I presume Seetec, it's a one size fits all Personal Progression Plan; clearly one size does NOT fit all......

Have repeatedly, and politely, requested of my PA (or PEA as some call them.....I can think of other words but I'd be banned here!) that I be given a print out of the questions to peruse them before answering (they did it with my PPP in fairness so.......); I was refused this.
Asked could I write them down as I answered then....nope.

There's questions in the CA that're deeply intrusive for customers; I fail to see why they're required and I don't trust where my data is going; I refer back to my PPP still having my details on it from first go as one reason to doubt their veracity.

Again, like the PPP, the CA is a closed book; there's no skip option; if I was a PA I'd be insisting on one to get it done; I'd happily answer some questions if I knew that anything, like about addictive substances, psychological or physical health, convictions etc. I wasn't comfortable with answering to a complete stranger, I could park and move on from.

I attempted attend a Customer Focus or Feedback Forum in late 2018 to well, politely, vent my spleen (I'd 5 to 6 pages of bullet points of notes written down) and see would they act on said feedback.

Got to door and line manager refused me entry; made up reason for refusal on spot; babbled on about having to be invited (I was, verbally at conclusion of my previous appt.) and it only being for P/T workers.....I'm smelling b/s on that one.

Roll on next week when I go for my Intreo Referral about these duckers; I'll give it to 'em with both barrels in terms of forgery, fraud, exclusion etc.

john williams

I have seen a item saying it runs till end 2019 with a 2 year run down 2021. So if last Client starts Dec 2019 why a 2 year run down?

Johnnycanyon

Nokia6230i wrote: »

As someone who didn't sign PPP and is on second go because of my inability to get employment (there are a multitude of personal/professional reasons I can think of that're hampering me; logistics aren't among them even though I don't/can't drive) my PPP was initially presented to me this time round as a fait accompli for an e-Signature; I declined because my details from initial go were still on it six months and three weeks and because I wasn't happy customers were being made go on their box ticking exercises not just once but in my and other customers cases, again.

PAs don't tell customers that signing PPPs're not compulsory or obligatory and not signing = no repercussions.

Why/not? Financially it's worth 311 per customer if PPP's signed!

Printed me off one to read over it (pointless; I already knew issues I had with it and it's been same one since day one of the company commencing business) and come back to them.....which I did with it remaining unsigned.

Subsequently got a letter from Intreo telling me I'd signed it (I.e. TN'd claimed their 311 for me; forgery and fraud) and was excused from signing for a year.

They've since been bugging me to do their 99 or 100 Questions; have sat down with them on countless occasions in last 4-5 months (Started back with them in Autumn 2019).

Nowhere in the PPP that I did not sign does it say I've to do their Catalyst Analysis; the fact I didn't sign it makes there even less of a reason to be forced to do it.

I say forced because after last occasion I was asked to leave, escorted to the exit and told I'm being referred back; appt. next week and I'll be ripping them, my PA and their Line Manager and the whole Turas Nua charade out of it.

I am engaging; they're the ones who're not; if they were willing to negotiate the PPP and omit or remove certain aspects I'm unhappy with I'd sign it.

But with TN, and I presume Seetec, it's a one size fits all Personal Progression Plan; clearly one size does NOT fit all......

Have repeatedly, and politely, requested of my PA (or PEA as some call them.....I can think of other words but I'd be banned here!) that I be given a print out of the questions to peruse them before answering (they did it with my PPP in fairness so.......); I was refused this.
Asked could I write them down as I answered then....nope.

There's questions in the CA that're deeply intrusive for customers; I fail to see why they're required and I don't trust where my data is going; I refer back to my PPP still having my details on it from first go as one reason to doubt their veracity.

Again, like the PPP, the CA is a closed book; there's no skip option; if I was a PA I'd be insisting on one to get it done; I'd happily answer some questions if I knew that anything, like about addictive substances, psychological or physical health, convictions etc. I wasn't comfortable with answering to a complete stranger, I could park and move on from.

I attempted attend a Customer Focus or Feedback Forum in late 2018 to well, politely, vent my spleen (I'd 5 to 6 pages of bullet points of notes written down) and see would they act on said feedback.

Got to door and line manager refused me entry; made up reason for refusal on spot; babbled on about having to be invited (I was, verbally at conclusion of my previous appt.) and it only being for P/T workers.....I'm smelling b/s on that one.

Roll on next week when I go for my Intreo Referral about these duckers; I'll give it to 'em with both barrels in terms of forgery, fraud, exclusion etc.

When I was with them they also forged my signature on their PPP, shortly afterwards I was fortunate enough to get a job ( all by myself) so didn't do anything about the forgery.. I recently contacted the data protection commissioner to see about having my data deleted from their servers as it was gathered illegally due to the forging of my signature..They told me with regard to the signature forgery I should report it to the Gardai which I am giving considering doing so . Maybe you should consider the same but will be interesting to hear what SW have to say to you about this.. Keep us posted.. I actually have the proof of the forget so mention to them you are aware of someone else who had the same experience with TN, I would have no problem giving my details to them if it's any assistance to your case.

john williams

Thinking only sign PPP and other documents when course is complete and you satisfied .I assume welfare wold be ok with this and send in data request before you leave in case they try this on you .this is my niece second time round so signature on file so will expect them to try this

john williams

Nokia 6230i
Puzzled do welfare normally tell people that they make that payment €311 to the company .my niece received no letter to that effect or did you have to ask someone about it?

Nokia6230i

john williams wrote: »

Nokia 6230i
Puzzled do welfare normally tell people that they make that payment €311 to the company .my niece received no letter to that effect or did you have to ask someone about it?

Only found out about it from sources like the Journal, John Brady SF TD & United People/Jeff Rudd; am sure there's other sources for it too though.

TN or the PEAs/PAs most certainly don't tell their customers about the 311 Payment the company receive; it might disincentivise customers to sign their PPP if they did and defo don't tell 'em that not signing won't result in benefits being affected.

Only letter your niece'll get'll be from Intreo; she'll get it about a week to 10 days after Induction Day; it's acknowledging she's signed her PPP (I got one too despite NOT signing mine.....) and so is excused from signing on down Dole Office for a period of 12 months.

john williams

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Only found out about it from sources like the Journal, John Brady SF TD & United People/Jeff Rudd; am sure there's other sources for it too though.

TN or the PEAs/PAs most certainly don't tell their customers about the 311 Payment the company receive; it might disincentivise customers to sign their PPP if they did and defo don't tell 'em that not signing won't result in benefits being affected.

Only letter your niece'll get'll be from Intreo; she'll get it about a week to 10 days after Induction Day; it's acknowledging she's signed her PPP (I got one too despite NOT signing mine.....) and so is excused from signing on down Dole Office for a period of 12 months.

Thanks Nokia 6230l
Just checked with niece no letter stating directly she signed her PPP even after she sent them a data request .found the ppp original or from data request she doesn't remember .looking at it now consent section signing it gives them right to contact employer .welfare site jobpath page bottom of page you can revoke consent .so I told her not to sign ppp all above board