Gardaí Can't be bothered to investigate 3500 children committing...

Alrigghtythen

touts wrote: »

Hard to blame the guards on this.....

... Not following up on those crimes was the wrong thing to do...

LOL

Snow Garden

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Did you read the link I posted above? It seems every Garda recruited from 2014 onwards must achieve a BA in Applied Policing.

They key word there is Applied. Is faking over a million breath tests applied policing?

Whatever course they did, they refused to apply it from 2010 to 2017 and now have to send apology letters to 3480 victims. These crimes include rape, sexual assault and child neglect.
.

RustyNut

Snow Garden wrote: »

According to the article...



Garda Commissioner Drew Harris said the work of 3,400 gardas being examined by chief superintendents to see whether or not disciplinary measures are required, adding that most of the cases are concentrated in very busy divisions.

The figure represents over 25% of the force!

No chance of a cover up there then.

touts

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

LOL

If you're going to quote someone please don't cut and paste random parts of different sentences from their post so that you take what they are saying completely out of context even if you think it will get a few laughs. The full sentence was it would be wrong in a functioning justice system but we don't have one.

Dyr

So it took an RUC man to find out that our police force are essentially glorified lollipop ladies. That's a bit embarrassing/

conorhal

Another 'systemic failure' by the state it seems.
What's funny is how convenient many of these systemic failures tend to be for the state.

Lets look at some numbers.

There are 5 juvenile detention centers in the state providing as far as I can ascertain a 114 operational bed capacity.

3,000 into 114 doesn't go, even when you consider the number of years this failure covers, those slipping through the cracks in the system would have exceeded the capacity of available places annually.
So you very quickly see why it is that nobody was rushing to fix this 'systemic failure', in fact you might even be tempted to wonder if the changes made to the system weren't a deliberate attept to fudge numbers and sweep convictions under the carpet so that the government can claim that crime is falling and no new prisons are required, nor is there any need to spend the 250,000 euro p.a. it takes to house a juvenile prisoner.
Add to that a fixation with avoiding juvenile criminal convictions resulting in jail time at all cost (except the cost to those who's lives are blighted by these little thugs) that is largely based on ideology. Back in 2005 they were talking about REDUCING the number of detention places by 25% in favour of alternatives to a jail sentence, which takes no account of the fact that some of these 'kids' are a serious danger to society.

Captain Obvious

conorhal wrote: »

Another 'systemic failure' by the state it seems.
What's funny is how convenient many of these systemic failures tend to be for the state.

Lets look at some numbers.

There are 5 juvenile detention centers in the state providing as far as I can ascertain a 114 operational bed capacity.

3,000 into 114 doesn't go, even when you consider the number of years this failure covers, those slipping through the cracks in the system would have exceeded the capacity of available places annually.
So you very quickly see why it is that nobody was rushing to fix this 'systemic failure', in fact you might even be tempted to wonder if the changes made to the system weren't a deliberate attept to fudge numbers and sweep convictions under the carpet so that the government can claim that crime is falling and no new prisons are required, nor is there any need to spend the 250,000 euro p.a. it takes to house a juvenile prisoner.
Add to that a fixation with avoiding juvenile criminal convictions resulting in jail time at all cost (except the cost to those who's lives are blighted by these little thugs) that is largely based on ideology. Back in 2005 they were talking about REDUCING the number of detention places by 25% in favour of alternatives to a jail sentence, which takes no account of the fact that some of these 'kids' are a serious danger to society.

Funnily enough, I believe this new system was brought in to prevent a scandal. It was feared that having a list of people unsuitable for caution could be seeing as denying them their due process.

conorhal

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Funnily enough, I believe this new system was brought in to prevent a scandal. It was feared that having a list of people unsuitable for caution could be seeing as denying them their due process.

I'm baffled why that system exists in the first place, shouldn't the determination of appropriate punishment be handled by a judge at a sentencing hearing? Why should such a list even exist that determines outcomes before a case has been tried?

Captain Obvious

conorhal wrote: »

I'm baffled why that system exists in the first place, shouldn't the determination of appropriate punishment be handled by a judge at a sentencing hearing? Why should such a list even exist that determines outcomes before a case has been tried?

It does sound like something that should be in the hands of the DPP as opposed to Gardaí, at least for the decision making part.

conorhal

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It does sound like something that should be in the hands of the DPP as opposed to Gardaí, at least for the decision making part.

Hence my wondering aloud if this 'admin change' wasn't a deliberate attempt to sweep the problems of capacity under the carpet.

Why spend money and take flack from the public about convicted thugs roaming the streets and soaring crime stats when you can simply make criminal charges disappear with a shuffle of some paper?

Captain Obvious

conorhal wrote: »

Hence my wondering aloud if this 'admin change' wasn't a deliberate attempt to sweep the problems of capacity under the carpet.

Why spend money and take flack from the public about convicted thugs roaming the streets and soaring crime stats when you can simply make criminal charges disappear with a shuffle of some paper?

There doesn't seem to be any pattern to what kind of charges or offenders were involved though.

conorhal

Captain Obvious wrote: »

There doesn't seem to be any pattern to what kind of charges or offenders were involved though.

In a numbers game, the actual nature of the charges don't really matter just the capacity to absorb the numbers. I suspect that when numbers got high they just stopped processing the charges regardless of the charge.

BattleCorp

Peter Flynt wrote: »

They are among the best paid public servants in the country relative to their qualifications which, for the majority, does not extend beyond the Leaving Cert.

New gardai are better paid than teachers, nurses, junior doctors. . . . There is a reason for this - the politicians see them as protecting the state and so look after them accordingly.

To be fair, it's one of the most poxy jobs in the country though.

I don't begrudge the cops the money they are on, and that doesn't mean that I'm standing up for Guards not doing their job by the way.

conorhal

conorhal wrote: »

I'm baffled why that system exists in the first place, shouldn't the determination of appropriate punishment be handled by a judge at a sentencing hearing? Why should such a list even exist that determines outcomes before a case has been tried?

The system exists so as to give juvenile offenders a chance. Many many people in this country have received a caution under the juvenile diversion program & gone on to live very law abiding lives, never in trouble again.
It comparable to many other countries.
It keeps juveniles out of court, not wasting the courts time on Mickey Mouse crimes, such as small shoplifting cases.

It's a good system. The problems have only arose since someone decided that every juvenile should be referred to the system for every offence. Previously, a list existed, of all juveniles where there was approval for charges. But that changed when the system became computerised. Now, no such list exists, every juvenile is referred, multiplying the workload of all juvenile liason officers.
By the time they get through the referrals, time has past, a lot of offences are statute barred or the member dealing with the offence has transferred, retired, is off sick etc.

I'm sure there has been some members who have been lazy, but the majority in these cases have not. It's a systems failure & should have been identified sooner. But in AGS things move slowly.
The review should sort it out. I'm sure that won't be good enough for most posters here though!

twowheelsonly

Snow Garden wrote: »

They key word there is Applied. Is faking over a million breath tests applied policing?

Whatever course they did, they refused to apply it from 2010 to 2017 and now have to send apology letters to 3480 victims. These crimes include rape, sexual assault and child neglect.
.

The highlighted part is pure drama led BS. There were 158,000+ cases in total, 3,000+ of which went through the cracks created by the switch on to the pulse system. All cases were initially investigated and logged, it was at the second / third stage of the process that these fell down. There appears to be one case of rape and one case of child neglect.
I'm perplexed though as to how a juvenile can be involved with a child neglect case under JLO. Surely Social Services should be involved if it's a child neglecting a child ??

Snow Garden

twowheelsonly wrote: »

The highlighted part is pure drama led BS. There were 158,000+ cases in total, 3,000+ of which went through the cracks created by the switch on to the pulse system. All cases were initially investigated and logged, it was at the second / third stage of the process that these fell down. There appears to be one case of rape and one case of child neglect.
I'm perplexed though as to how a juvenile can be involved with a child neglect case under JLO. Surely Social Services should be involved if it's a child neglecting a child ??

It's really hard to know what they were doing for the past 10 years when they weren't busy quashing penalty points, targeting McCabe, faking breath tests and not dealing with cases appropriately. Their lack of presence in the community was obvious.

4ensic15

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I've a brother who's just a year into it.

It's a really difficult job, he's meeting the lowest of the low. He had a woman ringing the station last week because her washing machine wouldn't turn on.


Crap money, unsociable hrs, incompetent superiors, it just seems like a nightmare.

What's low about a washing machine not turning on?

Alrigghtythen

4ensic15 wrote: »

What's low about a washing machine not turning on?

I think the moral of the story was the garda didn't expect to have to deal with criminals and dislikes this aspect of the job.Nor do they like dealing with people with low IQs.

4ensic15

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

I think the moral of the story was the garda didn't expect to have to deal with criminals and dislikes this aspect of the job

What has a washing machine got to do with criminals?

BuzzMcdonnell

4ensic15 wrote: »

What's low about a washing machine not turning on?

I think it’s the wasting of Garda resources that’s the issue, just maybe.

Captain Obvious

4ensic15 wrote: »

What has a washing machine got to do with criminals?

Money laundering?

Alrigghtythen

4ensic15 wrote: »

What has a washing machine got to do with criminals?

He stopped them from laundering money

Joke-I edited my last post to adress your question

4ensic15

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Money laundering?

Money has to be dry-cleaned.

AudreyHepburn

Blaming the Gardai is the easy way out here. The problem is our legal system needs a serious overhaul.

I can’t imagine how demoralizing it must be as a Gatda to have all your efforts and investigations thrown back into your face in court.

We are very good at misplacing our anger and frustration in this country and it really doesn’t help matters.

marty.mc

We need to have elected judges in Ireland, 5 year terms, if they are bleeding hearts they will soon be out of work, who would vote them back into the courts?

screamer

marty.mc wrote: »

We need to have elected judges in Ireland, 5 year terms, if they are bleeding hearts they will soon be out of work, who would vote them back into the courts?

Problem is the sentences they pass set precedence so the next scumbag can benefit from that. So it doesn’t matter that they are replaced in 5 years, it’s the sentences they hand down in those 5 years that is the problem

marty.mc

screamer wrote: »

Problem is the sentences they pass set precedence so the next scumbag can benefit from that. So it doesn’t matter that they are replaced in 5 years, it’s the sentences they hand down in those 5 years that is the problem

Concurrent sentences and judge is out of work come election time, a Consecutive sentence handed out will see a judge reelected.

Alrigghtythen

marty.mc wrote: »

Concurrent sentences and judge is out of work come election time, a Consecutive sentence handed out will see a judge reelected.

And the Gardai out of work

KevinCavan

For the past two mornings the Gardai have been booking people making an illegal right turn at the bottom of my hill. So I can’t fault their dedication.

touts

marty.mc wrote: »

We need to have elected judges in Ireland, 5 year terms, if they are bleeding hearts they will soon be out of work, who would vote them back into the courts?

That would certainly be a good start. Also having lawyers on fixed annual salaries and not paid by the case would make them less inclined to keep repeat offenders on the street. And having mandated minimum sentences and no access to early release or parole for repeat offenders. The fixes are all perfectly logical but to fix the system we first need to find and elect politicians with the strength to do the right thing and stop listening to the criminal justice industry and the bleeding heart criminal rights campaigners like the Irish Council for Criminal Liberties.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Drew Harris seems like a decent bloke, but I feel he's beginning to realise what a culturally backward and inept organisation AGS really is.

El_Bee

KevinCavan wrote: »

For the past two mornings the Gardai have been booking people making an illegal right turn at the bottom of my hill. So I can’t fault their dedication.

I mean, there's dirtbikes going non-stop up and down roads, weaving in and out of traffic, and going through housing estates, but sure those right turns are a real menace to society right there.

SEPT 23 1989

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

Drew Harris seems like a decent bloke, but I feel he's beginning to realise what a culturally backward and inept organisation AGS really is.

Can't see him lasting when it dawns on him how rotten the whole thing is and can't be fixed he will walk

Damien360

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Can't see him lasting when it dawns on him how rotten the whole thing is and can't be fixed he will walk

He is an outsider and the perfect person to fix a broken system with endemic back slapping and cover ups to advance careers. He has come from a very tough role in NI wihich on the face of it, had bigger issues and they seem to have got a better handle on it. If he is given the power to promote the good ones and oust the cronies, he will fix it but it will take years.

riclad

Maybe the gardai got tired of going to court and young people
getting no prison sentence.
If anyone commits a serious crime they should be brought to court ,eg rape ,burglary, etc
There should be a review of all serious crimes commited every year,
by an independent body.
Was this case brought to court, what was the result.
i know a man who works full time as a doctors assistant ,
he was arrested twice for being drunk in public 6 years ago.
It was an outstanding warrant.
The only reason he did not go to prison for one night is he had the money to pay bail.
He is not a criminal or a danger to the public.
in america the have juvenile detention centres for young offenders .
There is the option for community service for young people caught
breaking the law.
Something is wrong when there,s no punishment for a serious crime like rape.
Maybe the gardai are short of resources in dublin, they are dealing with a fued between 2 gangs .

Snow Garden

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Can't see him lasting when it dawns on him how rotten the whole thing is and can't be fixed he will walk

Yes they might turn on him like they did McCabe.