The war on meat

MrMusician18

Interesting study published today in the Lancet that indicates that Western diets are totally unsustainable. It recommends essentially rationing red meat to 7g/day or half a meatball. Essentially a burger would become a once a month thing. Dairy will be a thing of the past as well and diets will essentially be plant based. This will be necessary to ensure the 10bn mouths will get enough calories.

With the rise of veganism, and even our very own taoiseach saying he's going to cut back on meat, will you be following his lead? Or is meat simply too tasty too pull back on? I'll find it hard myself tbh.

The other thing that might get us out of this bind is synthetic beef and dairy. Would you eat food grown in a lab? Seemingly most under 40s don't have a problem with synthetic dairy manufactured from GM yeast like beer, but would with beef. Hard to see where this all goes...

For Forks Sake

Time to invest in shares of vitamin supplement companies...

RMAOK

This report won't change my attitude to eating meat

You can't beat a nice steak. Yum

FTA69

I find the only way I can get into shape is by eating meat, fish and loads of greens. If I ate nothing but pulses and grains I’d be fat as a fool I think.

But yeah it’s true, our way of eating meat and animal products is unsustainable and factory farming is completely cruel.

Solomon Pleasant

If we don’t stop eating meat at the current rate then preventing the worse effects of climate change will be impossible. This is fact.

You can sacrifice your taste buds love for meat or sacrifice the planet and your life. Your choice.

Widdensushi

RMAOK wrote: »

This report won't change my attitude to eating meat

You can't be a nice steak. Yum

Some cows would disagree with you

Comic Book Guy

"You don't win friends with salad, you don't win friends with salad".

Solomon Pleasant

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

If we don’t stop eating meat at the current rate then preventing the worse effects of climate change will be impossible. This is fact.

You can sacrifice your taste buds love for meat or sacrifice the planet and your life. Your choice.

gozunda

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Interesting study published today in the Lancet that indicates that Western diets are totally unsustainable. It recommends essentially rationing red meat to 7g/day or half a meatball. .... Hard to see where this all goes...

Yeah it's a war alright - A war of pure and utter bull****e . It's quite simple to see where it's coming from with just a little fact checking tbh

These are the movers behind the group called EAT pushing their report on 'Planetary health diet' (sic) in the Lancet

What exactly is EAT? ... EAT was founded in 2013 by Gunhild Stordalen, an animal right activist for the Norwegian Animal Welfare Alliance (and the wife of hotel tycoon Petter Stordalen). This couple who are listed as being amongst Europe’s richest individuals ... display a particularly lavish lifestyle despite their image as green avengers.

The Stordalens have both the means and networks to put their ideas into action, as their contacts include CEOs, politicians, and royalties.

And where budgets allow it, influence can be purchased: 3.5 million Norwegian Kronar was paid to Bill Clinton - who went vegan (briefly) in 2010 - for a one-hour speech at an EAT conference in 2014.

You'd never guess there's a bunch of extreme vegans and animal rights nutters behind this?

The trouble is that the radio and television coverage are laying it on as if this lot are global food experts ...

whisky_galore

The UN recommended we all eat insects a few years ago.
Doubt if the UN staff canteen is serving up bugs.

It's the usual 'do as we say, not as we do' crap that people generally ignore.

2Mad2BeMad

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

If we don’t stop eating meat at the current rate then preventing the worse effects of climate change will be impossible. This is fact.

You can sacrifice your taste buds love for meat or sacrifice the planet and your life. Your choice.

Il stick with the meat. Il die long before this planet does. That is a fact.

gozunda

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

If we don’t stop eating meat at the current rate then preventing the worse effects of climate change will be impossible. This is fact.

You can sacrifice your taste buds love for meat or sacrifice the planet and your life. Your choice.

Absolute cow manure...

whisky_galore

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

If we don’t stop eating meat at the current rate then preventing the worse effects of climate change will be impossible. This is fact.

You can sacrifice your taste buds love for meat or sacrifice the planet and your life. Your choice.

No.

I'd rather my usual chicken, fish, pork and very occasional steak, thanks. Not eating grains and greens like a hamster.

Muckka

Meat is great, I knew a knob who said their chicken was a vegan, and only ate good quality corn.

I picked up a worm, threw it to the chicken, the chicken ripped the worm to shreds.

What's a Hindu ?

Lays egg's sir

Poor Uncle Tom

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

If we don’t stop eating meat at the current rate then preventing the worse effects of climate change will be impossible. This is fact.

You can sacrifice your taste buds love for meat or sacrifice the planet and your life. Your choice.

Scaremongering kills little kittens, this is fact....

..denial isn't just a river you know..;)

Tom Mann Centuria

I try my best to beat meat every single day, so I'm doing my bit.

Church on Tuesday

As with nearly everything in life, everything in moderation folks.

s7ryf3925pivug

I was vegetarian for seven years. I did it properly and limited dairy and egg intake as well, ate lots of lentils and pulses to get the nutrients you get from meat.

Healthwise, I personally found my digestive system was more stable when I stopped eating meat. I personally found I felt more full when I started eating meat again. That was all really. I was able to build muscle easily as a vegetarian, when I had a mind to. My energy and concentration were fine. I didn't find it any easier or harder to keep from getting fat.

I started eating poultry and fish again because my wife found it difficult to get sufficient nutrients while pregnant from plant based foods. This was because of bad morning sickness, and meat tends to be denser nutritionally in some regards. She felt bad so I switched too so she felt less bad.

My view is that a very few people might have permqnent or temporary digestive issues to make it preferable to include or eliminate meat - but for the vast majority there is no significant effect on health or wellbeing one way or another. It is just down to choice.

I feel like a bit of a hypocrite eating meat today, as I was a bit upset after killing a mouse yesterday (with a sledgehammer). I realised it was the first time I killed something bigger than an insect.

There are compelling reasons to limit meat intake, especially beef, because of the contribution the industry has to global warming. Ireland is in line to get huge fines soon for not honouring our commitments to reducing emissions. This is mainly because we have expanded animal farming in the meantime, getting permission to increase the number of cows that we can farm.

I think large numbers of people reducing intake is the way to go. No need for a binary vegetarian/omnivorous approach. Just eat less of it.

wakka12

I dont eat much meat, to save some money mostly, and because a lot of it is quite unhealthy, especially if its fried on the pan, and I think its good for the environment to reduce a bit.
If im at a restuarant Ill eat a nice piece of meat though definitely

OneArt

I love meat.

Especially ostrich and game. I don't mind beef, but thanks to mass production it's become bland and tasteless. So I don't eat it that much.

Most people need meat in small amounts, though. I don't think it should be rationed to such a small amount, but the sheer mass of meat that's produced is just f*cking ridiculous. Farmers are literally paid money to throw it away.

On a slightly different note, I hate the terms "vegan" and "vegetarian". It's called food: meat is only a small part of that. It's ridiculous to define something by what it isn't.

Christ on a bike. These outdated arguments give me a headache.

Amirani

whisky_galore wrote: »

No.

I'd rather my usual chicken, fish, pork and very occasional steak, thanks. Not eating grains and greens like a hamster.

I think some sort of balance like this the right approach. Most of the Western world eats far more red meat than it should, with negative health and environmental impacts. Limiting your red meat to an occasional indulgence like you seem to be doing is the right thing to do. Many are already moving this way, but anecdotally I still see/hear of people who eat minced beef, burgers etc. multiple times a week.

As far as other meats go, the study seems to be a bit extreme in its suggestions. I think it would be a positive step though if there was some re-jigging of the average diet. Even if people who currently have meat with every meal had 1 or 2 meat-free meals per week, you could be looking at a 15-20% reduction in meat consumption.

Widdensushi

I do my bit for the environment when eating steak, I eat it rare, close to blue so there's little energy used cooking it.

Huntergonzo

Having grown up on a dairy farm and recently gotten into bodybuilding, it's fair to say that my big beautiful bogger áss isn't too interestrd in listening to vegans!

But when dramatic change is apparently 'needed', then surely a lot of solid science must be there to back it up. So basically is drastically cutting down on meat and dairy significantly better for the environment? and significantly better for your own health? (assuming you're eating lean meat and fish rather than fat laden processed meat).

Ps, just from a bodybuilding point of view, is it possible to achieve good definition and growth on a vegan diet, and if so how exactly? (Without steroids obviously)

Dakota Dan

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

If we don’t stop eating meat at the current rate then preventing the worse effects of climate change will be impossible. This is fact.

You can sacrifice your taste buds love for meat or sacrifice the planet and your life. Your choice.

What exactly do you think is going to happen to the planet?

Scarinae

whisky_galore wrote: »

The UN recommended we all eat insects a few years ago.
Doubt if the UN staff canteen is serving up bugs.

It's the usual 'do as we say, not as we do' crap that people generally ignore.

You wouldn't necessarily just be spooning dead bugs into your mouth though! I've eaten a brownie made from cricket flour and it was absolutely delicious, I would never have guessed it was made from insects if I hadn't been told.

Hudson Yard

I'd prefer to prioritise my health and eat plenty of meat.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I know its serious whataboutery, but I hate when these types of studies preach to the general public when something like 70% of all emissions is caused by 10 companies. That, coupled with China, India and the US not giving a continental hoot about emissions makes me extremely jaded by these types of studies.

Rows Grower

Thea Spicy Nag wrote: »

I was vegetarian for seven years. I did it properly and limited dairy and egg intake as well, ate lots of lentils and pulses to get the nutrients you get from meat.

Healthwise, I personally found my digestive system was more stable when I stopped eating meat. I personally found I felt more full when I started eating meat again. That was all really. I was able to build muscle easily as a vegetarian, when I had a mind to. My energy and concentration were fine. I didn't find it any easier or harder to keep from getting fat.

I started eating poultry and fish again because my wife found it difficult to get sufficient nutrients while pregnant from plant based foods. This was because of bad morning sickness, and meat tends to be denser nutritionally in some regards. She felt bad so I switched too so she felt less bad.

My view is that a very few people might have permqnent or temporary digestive issues to make it preferable to include or eliminate meat - but for the vast majority there is no significant effect on health or wellbeing one way or another. It is just down to choice.

I feel like a bit of a hypocrite eating meat today, as I was a bit upset after killing a mouse yesterday (with a sledgehammer). I realised it was the first time I killed something bigger than an insect.

There are compelling reasons to limit meat intake, especially beef, because of the contribution the industry has to global warming. Ireland is in line to get huge fines soon for not honouring our commitments to reducing emissions. This is mainly because we have expanded animal farming in the meantime, getting permission to increase the number of cows that we can farm.

I think large numbers of people reducing intake is the way to go. No need for a binary vegetarian/omnivorous approach. Just eat less of it.

That was either one slow mouse or you're like a ninja with a sledgehammer.

4068ac1elhodqr

The best thing Ireland can for the environment is plant a few forests (currently the lowest woodland cover in Europe), to absorb carbon emissions.
Then have a nice egg for breakfast and steak/fish/chicken (along with veg) for dinner. Avoid soy like the plague.

whisky_galore

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I know its serious whataboutery, but I hate when these types of studies preach to the general public when something like 70% of all emissions is caused by 10 companies. That, coupled with China, India and the US not giving a continental hoot about emissions makes me extremely jaded by these types of studies.

In non western countries (with probable exception of India for some religious sects) if you asked for a main meal without meat, they'd look at you as if you had two heads.
The veganism craic is just the latest Western food fad/pseudoreligion.

Cookie_Monster

Thea Spicy Nag wrote: »

I feel like a bit of a hypocrite eating meat today, as I was a bit upset after killing a mouse yesterday (with a sledgehammer). I realised it was the first time I killed something bigger than an insect.

.

:eek::eek:
don't do things by half, do you?

s7ryf3925pivug

Rows Grower wrote: »

That was either one slow mouse or you're like a ninja with a sledgehammer.

Neither. It was in a plastic bench/outdoor storage box. I removed most of what was in it and poured water in it then whacked the only places it had left. It was really horrible. Kept getting stuck in corners and staring at me. Then when I finally hit it it wasn't clean and I had to hit it a couple of times before I got its head and it stopped twitching. Feel bad thinking about it. Definitely more humane ways of getting rid of a mouse. Was concerned about pathogens though, so I didn't want it to escape so I just did the first thing I thought of.

OldMrBrennan83

They lost me at climate change.

gozunda

whisky_galore wrote: »

In non western countries (with probable exception of India for some religious sects) if you asked for a main meal without meat, they'd look at you as if you had two heads.
The veganism craic is just the latest Western food fad/pseudoreligion.

I agree. It's like some form of bizarre self flagellation that many western countries have about animal farming and eating meat claiming 'western diets are totally unsustainable' (sic) 

For example - Ethiopia is home to one of the largest livestock populations in Africa. According to government statistics, there are approximately 50 million cattle, 50 million goats and sheep, plus an assortment of horses, donkeys, camels and chickens.

And I say good luck to them ...

Amirani

whisky_galore wrote: »

In non western countries (with probable exception of India for some religious sects) if you asked for a main meal without meat, they'd look at you as if you had two heads.
The veganism craic is just the latest Western food fad/pseudoreligion.

Not just religious sects in India; tonnes of the country just doesn't eat meat as a matter of course. Travel around Northern or Western India and it can be quite difficult to find places selling meat!

whisky_galore

Amirani wrote: »

Not just religious sects in India; tonnes of the country just doesn't eat meat as a matter of course. Travel around Northern or Western India and it can be quite difficult to find places selling meat!

Is it more to do with people not able to afford it?

Amirani

gozunda wrote: »

I agree. It's like some form of bizarre self flagellation that many western countries have about animal farming and eating meat.

For example - Ethiopia's estimated livestock population of about 78.4 million (1988 figures) was believed to be Africa's largest. There were approximately 31 million cattle, 23.4 million sheep, 17.5 million goats, 5.5 million horses and mules, 1 million camels, and 57 million poultry.

And I say good luck to them ...

http://countrystudies.us/ethiopia/95.htm://countrystudies.us/ethiopia/95.htm

Ethiopia has a population of over 100m. Ireland has far more livestock per capita.

Amirani

whisky_galore wrote: »

Is it more to do with people not able to afford it?

Possibly an element of that, but a lot just culinary culture. Lentils, chickpeas, paneer much more common protein staple.

weisses

gozunda wrote: »

These are the movers behind the group called EAT pushing their report on 'Planetary health diet' (sic) in the Lancet

The trouble is that the radio and television coverage are laying it on as if this lot are global food experts ...

Uhhh they are

https://eatforum.org/initiatives/the-eat-lancet-commission/commissioners/


You must be involved in farming right ?

fritzelly

Thea Spicy Nag wrote: »

Neither. It was in a plastic bench/outdoor storage box. I removed most of what was in it and poured water in it then whacked the only places it had left. It was really horrible. Kept getting stuck in corners and staring at me. Then when I finally hit it it wasn't clean and I had to hit it a couple of times before I got its head and it stopped twitching. Feel bad thinking about it. Definitely more humane ways of getting rid of a mouse. Was concerned about pathogens though, so I didn't want it to escape so I just did the first thing I thought of.

Any vegans reading stop right now lmao

ganmo

weisses wrote: »

Uhhh they are

https://eatforum.org/initiatives/the-eat-lancet-commission/commissioners/


You must be involved in farming right ?

Ask any climate scientist which would have a bigger impact, stopping eating meat or stopping air travel

bigroad

Wiil I be the first one to say it as i am just waiting for Leo to utter the words
MEAT TAX.

James Brown

Widdensushi wrote: »

Some cows would disagree with you

Cite one?

Yep, we'll be all nibbling on carrots and paying rent to some shareholder in a vulture fund as he chows down on steak.

whisky_galore

Scarinae wrote: »

You wouldn't necessarily just be spooning dead bugs into your mouth though! I've eaten a brownie made from cricket flour and it was absolutely delicious, I would never have guessed it was made from insects if I hadn't been told.

By and large Westerners wouldn't eat it because of the ick factor, it'd be a hard sell.

Johnnycanyon

Saw a very good documentary on this very subject a few years ago, it was called Cowspiracy, worth a look.

gozunda

Amirani wrote: »

Ethiopia has a population of over 100m. Ireland has far more livestock per capita.

Ratio of cattle to humans in Ireland is approx is 1.4 to 1. In Ethiopia this is 1 to 2. However Ethiopias livestock trade continues to grow with significant investments are being made to increase trade and production.

Ireland specialises in livestock because our topograhy and climate allows for good grass growth etc. Much of our livestock are exported as food products to the rest of Europe etc. Makes sense to specialise in those areas which are suited to the country.

MrMusician18

Johnnycanyon wrote: »

Saw a very good documentary on this very subject a few years ago, it was called Conspiracy, worth a look.

Cowspiracy. Saw it on Netflix a year or so ago.

Tuco88

Are they that blind? The problem is not meat consumption. The place is way too over populated.

Divide by 2.

weisses

Tuco88 wrote: »

Are they that blind? The problem is not meat consumption. The place is way too over populated.

Divide by 2.

I say lead by example

Cunning Stunt

Thea Spicy Nag wrote: »

Neither. It was in a plastic bench/outdoor storage box. I removed most of what was in it and poured water in it then whacked the only places it had left. It was really horrible. Kept getting stuck in corners and staring at me. Then when I finally hit it it wasn't clean and I had to hit it a couple of times before I got its head and it stopped twitching. Feel bad thinking about it. Definitely more humane ways of getting rid of a mouse. Was concerned about pathogens though, so I didn't want it to escape so I just did the first thing I thought of.

Jesus christ!
"War on meat" is right!

Rows Grower

Thea Spicy Nag wrote: »

Neither. It was in a plastic bench/outdoor storage box. I removed most of what was in it and poured water in it then whacked the only places it had left. It was really horrible. Kept getting stuck in corners and staring at me. Then when I finally hit it it wasn't clean and I had to hit it a couple of times before I got its head and it stopped twitching. Feel bad thinking about it. Definitely more humane ways of getting rid of a mouse. Was concerned about pathogens though, so I didn't want it to escape so I just did the first thing I thought of.

Fair play, you sound like a natural born killer.