The war on meat

SlowBlowin

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Remember what happened the last time we depended on plants for food, that didn't work out too well.

Ive tried not eating meat for a short period of time, but having been raised next to a farm and eaten meat for 50+ years my body expects bacon and beef on a regular basis.

SB

gozunda

SlowBlowin wrote: »

I don't find it logical.

So there is not going to be enough land to feed the world population with meat = stop eating meat.

Surely the answer is the worlds population is too big.

This is normally countered with "so what are you going to do, kill people", but what happens when the population is too big to be fed with veg only, what do you do then ?

I don't have answer but I think the logical conclusion is there are too many people on little ole earth.

SB

Its not. It pure propaganda. All this bs is simply to supporting a extemist agenda because there are those who dislike animal farming for personal reasons and will throw any old ****e including the proverbial kitchen sink. Btw they don't like this been called out for what it is and theres those who are more focused on trying to find fault with the messengers pointing this out. But hey not really surprising tbh.

mikeecho

I Picked steaks in Lidl today 3 X 2 Irish sirloins for €9

I got €18 worth .. 12 steaks. a DOZEN STEAKS for less than €20

Might get another 3packs (6 steaks) tomorrow.. pop them into the deep freeze.

Also got 15g of caviar, for €10 .. someone will probably have an issue with that as well... I shouldn't mention the farmed smoked salmon., There'll be a linch mob outside my house at dawn.

Ultimanemo

gozunda wrote: »

Referred to now as 'climate change' . Afaik the logic is that the heating up of the globe causes local weather systems to go haywire ....

Yeah, climate change suits them better, you can't scare wet and cold countries by telling them: global warming will make you hot and dry, "climate change" comes handy here, if you are hot and dry they say: you will get hotter and drier, if you are cold they will tell you: you gonna freeze, or whatever you hate.

MFPM

mikeecho wrote: »

I Picked steaks in Lidl today 3 X 2 Irish sirloins for €9

I got €18 worth .. 12 steaks. a DOZEN STEAKS for less than €20

Might get another 3packs (6 steaks) tomorrow.. pop them into the deep freeze.

Also got 15g of caviar, for €10 .. someone will probably have an issue with that as well... I shouldn't mention the farmed smoked salmon., There'll be a linch mob outside my house at dawn.

You don't go for quality then?

There'll be a linch mob outside my house at dawn.

I think you'll find it's 'lynch' - all that sh!t meat not doing much for your brain!

YFlyer

emaherx wrote: »

So you are in favour of culling the world population?

SlowBlowin

YFlyer wrote: »

So you are in favour of culling the world population?

As predicted the kill question, please read my last post...

SB

Sorry it was not my last post but here is what I said:

"I don't find it logical.

So there is not going to be enough land to feed the world population with meat = stop eating meat.

Surely the answer is the worlds population is too big.

This is normally countered with "so what are you going to do, kill people", but what happens when the population is too big to be fed with veg only, what do you do then ?

I don't have answer but I think the logical conclusion is there are too many people on little ole earth."

YFlyer

SlowBlowin wrote: »

As predicted the kill question, please read my last post...

SB

Sorry it was not my last post but here is what I said:

"I don't find it logical.

So there is not going to be enough land to feed the world population with meat = stop eating meat.

Surely the answer is the worlds population is too big.

This is normally countered with "so what are you going to do, kill people", but what happens when the population is too big to be fed with veg only, what do you do then ?

I don't have answer but I think the logical conclusion is there are too many people on little ole earth."

I'm more bemused with the issue of people living in cities.

Should we have two billion stand alone houses scattered around the globe?

Dannyriver

mad muffin wrote: »

Fücking cünts. Compared to them my carbon footprint is like an ant to an elephant.

These are the kind of fückers ruining the earth. Not me. All they are trying to do is consume as much of the earths resources as they can whilst telling me I need to cut back lol. Fücking vampires. That’s all they are. Makes me so fücking mad. :mad:

A pox on them and their kind.

So lets ignore the message because we don t like the messenger. ?

emaherx

YFlyer wrote: »

So you are in favour of culling the world population?

Don't know where you got that from?

I'm in favour of cutting carbon emissions from fossil fuels that are releasing carbon that was stored in oil for millions of years and not blaming animals that are part of the carbon cycle.

mad muffin

Dannyriver wrote: »

So lets ignore the message because we don t like the messenger. ?

Oh I read the message loud and clear. Reduce your consumption, so we, the rich have more to consume.

LOUD AND FÛCKING CLEAR

Dakota Dan

Dannyriver wrote: »

So lets ignore the message because we don t like the messenger. ?

In this case the messenger is a hypocrite but I’m sure you already know that.

YFlyer

emaherx wrote: »

Don't know where you got that from?

I'm in favour of cutting carbon emissions from fossil fuels that are releasing carbon that was stored in oil for millions of years and not blaming animals that are part of the carbon cycle.

From the meme.

It is much easier to cut carbon emissions from people in large cities than in stand alone houses scattered everywhere.

emaherx

YFlyer wrote: »

From the meme.

It is much easier to cut carbon emissions from people in large cities than in stand alone houses scattered everywhere.

You got a lot from that meme.

The meme is still apt. Our current cities are a bigger issue for carbon emissions than cattle. It doesn't offer a solution or suggest the solution might be easy.

Don't think spreading out our population will help either as it will use more land and further reduce our natural carbon sinks.

Ultimanemo

Dannyriver wrote: »

So lets ignore the message because we don t like the messenger. ?

When the messenger is a liar, the message is likely to be a lie

batgoat

Ultimanemo wrote: »

When the messenger is a liar, the message is likely to be a lie

The Lancet Medical journal are a pretty well respected peer reviewed journal. People are free to create a piece of a research that debunks it and send it through the same peer reviewed process if they can back it up..

gozunda

batgoat wrote: »

The Lancet Medical journal are a pretty well respected peer reviewed journal. People are free to create a piece of a research that debunks it and send it through the same peer reviewed process if they can back it up..

The Lancet have nothing to do with the actual 'research'. There have been many controversies over some of the papers they publish. Including one of several withdrawn articles where data had been fabricated in an article.

The 'research' was funded by this crew

What exactly is EAT? ... EAT was founded in 2013 by Gunhild Stordalen, an animal right activist for the Norwegian Animal Welfare Alliance (and the wife of hotel tycoon Petter Stordalen). This couple who are listed as being amongst Europe’s richest individuals ... display a particularly lavish lifestyle despite their image as green avengers.

The Stordalens have both the means and networks to put their ideas into action, as their contacts include CEOs, politicians, and royalties.

And where budgets allow it, influence can be purchased: 3.5 million Norwegian Kronar was paid to Bill Clinton - who went vegan (briefly) in 2010 - for a one-hour speech at an EAT conference in 2014.

To get something published in the Lancet also costs serious money.

The fee has initially been set at $3000 per article for all Elsevier journals except those published by Cell Press, which have a $5000 per article fee, and The Lancet, which will have a feeof £400 per page.

artvanderlay

I think if we just ate what we can grow/rear in our own countries, it would be a start. You might have to do without avocados and bananas, but f*ck it! Get back to an indigenuous diet. This importing and exporting of food is not helping the planet. Look at the amount of land sitting idle in Ireland; grow everything we need, get high-tech green-houses going, whatever we need to reduce importing food. And I hate the idea of us exporting live animals to foreign countries, even China now. There is just no need for it. Cut back on that **** and it should help the planet a bit.

Ultimanemo

batgoat wrote: »

The Lancet Medical journal are a pretty well respected peer reviewed journal. People are free to create a piece of a research that debunks it and send it through the same peer reviewed process if they can back it up..

No questions about the lancet, he is talking about Gunhild Stordalen, If you conduct a well funded research you may be able to publish it in the lancet as you plug all the "holes".

emaherx

batgoat wrote: »

The Lancet Medical journal are a pretty well respected peer reviewed journal. People are free to create a piece of a research that debunks it and send it through the same peer reviewed process if they can back it up..

Like this?

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-09/tl-tld091018.php

Edit: link was borrowed from another thread.

nagel wrote: »

back in september they published this , good old butter and dairy,
They must have got a new veggie lover on board,
Linky https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-09/tl-tld091018.php

wakka12

Water John wrote: »

Not a scientific sample but had a family wedding, over 200 guests. 3 vegetarians for meal, 2 in the extended family and the third a neighbour, all female. No vegan. That to me seems to be the reality of the numbers.

Depends entirely on the demographic youre dealing with, in my year in UCD of the 35 girls theres at least 5 vegans and about ten vegetarians/pescetarians

silverharp

wakka12 wrote: »

Depends entirely on the demographic youre dealing with, in my year in UCD of the 35 girls theres at least 5 vegans and about ten vegetarians/pescetarians

the vast majority of vegans are female, probably a lot of churn in veganism too so most likely demographic is younger. Then you have the issue of young girls with eating disorder being attracted to veganism "as cover". you seem to have a peak group there, oddly or not i dont think i have ever met a vegan

Dakota Dan

wakka12 wrote: »

Depends entirely on the demographic youre dealing with, in my year in UCD of the 35 girls theres at least 5 vegans and about ten vegetarians/pescetarians

Around 0.5% of the worlds population are vegan.

Dannyriver

Ultimanemo wrote: »

When the messenger is a liar, the message is likely to be a lie

She s hardly the only one with this message now is she? Plus she has the overwhelming backing of science. As for the logic that if the messanger is a liar then the message is likely to be a lie then I wish Trump/Johnson/Rees-Mogg supporters were just as unequivocal with their assumptions.

emaherx

Dannyriver wrote: »

She s hardly the only one with this message now is she? Plus she has the overwhelming backing of science. As for the logic that if the messanger is a liar then the message is likely to be a lie then I wish Trump/Johnson/Rees-Mogg supporters were just as unequivocal with their assumptions.

Overwhelming backing of science?
Plenty of scientists speaking against it and it's only published a few days.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Another link about the report being flawed.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/201901/eat-lancets-plant-based-planet-10-things-you-need-know%3famp

Dannyriver wrote: »

She s hardly the only one with this message now is she? Plus she has the overwhelming backing of science. As for the logic that if the messanger is a liar then the message is likely to be a lie then I wish Trump/Johnson/Rees-Mogg supporters were just as unequivocal with their assumptions.

And also...
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/why-we-fell-for-clean-eating
https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/eat-lancet-reports-recommendations-are-at-odds-with-sustainable-food-production/

https://twitter.com/SBakerMD/status/1085589745206358016
https://twitter.com/GHGGuru/status/1086461773836779520

whisky_galore

artvanderlay wrote: »

I think if we just ate what we can grow/rear in our own countries, it would be a start. You might have to do without avocados and bananas, but f*ck it! Get back to an indigenuous diet. This importing and exporting of food is not helping the planet. Look at the amount of land sitting idle in Ireland; grow everything we need, get high-tech green-houses going, whatever we need to reduce importing food. And I hate the idea of us exporting live animals to foreign countries, even China now. There is just no need for it. Cut back on that **** and it should help the planet a bit.

Schpud and turnip smoothie...yaaay.

I think the native food industry would contract or collapse if it was only relying on the home market.

gozunda

whisky_galore wrote: »

Schpud and turnip smoothie...yaaay.

I think the native food industry would contract or collapse if it was only relying on the home market.

You missed the old style Irish reliable - POC gardening.

Potatoes
Onions
Cabbage

In Ireland because of the vageries of our climate litte else except grass is reliable. Hell of a 'suststainble' vegan diet tbh. Hope we have enough wood pulp for toilet roll all the same : :pac:

Water John

Ireland's home market is Europe.

This conflation of vegan and climate change is false.

c.p.w.g.w

YFlyer wrote: »

So you are in favour of culling the world population?

Yes

Dakota Dan

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Yes

Well, off with you then.

emaherx

NASA study, Confirms Methane Spike Tied to Oil and Gas.

https://www.ecowatch.com/nasa-study-methane-spike-2526089909.html?fbclid=IwAR1U87gLM7Mz9MyrYPPoBEfixyCldqpLIDUR0H0ijJFSgRl4lRqoUEw0uxE

gozunda

emaherx wrote: »

NASA study, Confirms Methane Spike Tied to Oil and Gas.

https://www.ecowatch.com/nasa-study-methane-spike-2526089909.html?fbclid=IwAR1U87gLM7Mz9MyrYPPoBEfixyCldqpLIDUR0H0ijJFSgRl4lRqoUEw0uxE

Interesting that in addition to fossil fuel use through transport etc - that rice farming has now been also identified as a major emitter of methane

Using this data, "the team showed that about 17 teragrams per year of the increase is due to fossil fuels, another 12 is from wetlands or rice farming, while fires are decreasing by about 4 teragrams per year," NASA said in a Jan. 2 press release. "The three numbers combine to 25 teragrams a year—the same as the observed increase."

Seanachai

silverharp wrote: »

the vast majority of vegans are female, probably a lot of churn in veganism too so most likely demographic is younger. Then you have the issue of young girls with eating disorder being attracted to veganism "as cover". you seem to have a peak group there, oddly or not i dont think i have ever met a vegan

I wonder is it linked to easing menstrual problems?

B.A._Baracus

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

If we don’t stop eating meat at the current rate then preventing the worse effects of climate change will be impossible. This is fact.

You can sacrifice your taste buds love for meat or sacrifice the planet and your life. Your choice.

Wonder how much neat have you had since you post that.

Johnnycanyon

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Jaysus, I think it’s past your bedtime, you don’t want to be late for school tomorrow.

So funny , and so original.

qwerty ui op

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

you won't find a stick being used in my yard to move cattle. It's counterproductive and unnecessary.



Same in any yard around here,

What an egregious lie!

And you along with anyone who has ever had any involvement with cattle knows full well there isn't some random parts of the country where sticks aren't used to drive cattle.

I've no idea what being a Moderator entails but straight up lying, it just isn't a good look.
So say and do whatever you want your only harming yourself.

and what about me being told to "F U C K OFF which you definitely saw, I was half thinking I might report that sometime, cos you stayed very quiet about it.

Buford T. Justice XIX

qwerty ui op wrote: »

What an egregious lie!

And you along with anyone who has ever had any involvement with cattle knows full well there isn't some random parts of the country where sticks aren't used to drive cattle.

I've no idea what being a Moderator entails but straight up lying, it just isn't a good look.
So say and do whatever you want your only harming yourself.

and what about me being told to "F U C K OFF which you definitely saw, I was half thinking I might report that sometime, cos you stayed very quiet about it.

You have the right and ability to report any post you fell is breaking the charter. I appreciate your thinking we have the ability to read every post in every thread but that's not possible so I would encourage you to report that post or, indeed, any post that contains abuse.

Now, as to your first paragraph, I know you're going to furnish proof for that accusation, aren't you?

joeguevara

Eggplant tastes like eggplant, but meat tastes like murder and murder tastes god damn great doesn’t it?

https://youtu.be/OiSaENiho-Y

Force Carrier

The next generation should see increasing amounts of technology integrated into or merging with the human body. Including generation and storage of power. 'Food'and 'eating' becoming outdated and barbaric.

Tom Mann Centuria

Force Carrier wrote: »

The next generation should see increasing amounts of technology integrated into or merging with the human body. Including generation and storage of power. 'Food'and 'eating' becoming outdated and barbaric.

So we're all getting peg tubes fitted?

prinzeugen

Force Carrier wrote: »

The next generation should see increasing amounts of technology integrated into or merging with the human body. Including generation and storage of power. 'Food'and 'eating' becoming outdated and barbaric.

Yeah.. That sounds like fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZEJ4OJTgg8

joeguevara

Force Carrier wrote: »

The next generation should see increasing amounts of technology integrated into or merging with the human body. Including generation and storage of power. 'Food'and 'eating' becoming outdated and barbaric.

That has been said for the last 4 generations. When I was 8 it was guaranteed that all our meals would be in pill form.

But eating is one of the biggest joys we can do. The social aspect alone is so important. Also just look at the popularity of food culture in tv books traveling. Food is not simply fuel.

Force Carrier

joeguevara wrote: »

That has been said for the last 4 generations. When I was 8 it was guaranteed that all our meals would be in pill form.

But eating is one of the biggest joys we can do. The social aspect alone is so important. Also just look at the popularity of food culture in tv books traveling. Food is not simply fuel.

You won't need to waste valuable time eating when you have solar panels built into your body. Just give it a try. Start off with a small one.

Buford T. Justice XIX

qwerty ui op wrote: »

What an egregious lie!

And you along with anyone who has ever had any involvement with cattle knows full well there isn't some random parts of the country where sticks aren't used to drive cattle.

I've no idea what being a Moderator entails but straight up lying, it just isn't a good look.
So say and do whatever you want your only harming yourself.

and what about me being told to "F U C K OFF which you definitely saw, I was half thinking I might report that sometime, cos you stayed very quiet about it.

Now that I have a few minutes, I'll explain why we don't abuse our stock. You won't find it on YouTube so you probably won't have come across it before.

I'm in the middle of my cattle twice a day. Shouting and roaring and brandishing a plastic stick like you allude to is counterproductive. Why use a stick when a carrot will be more effective, both long and short term? If I was to go bizarrely insane, as you're accusing me of, it wouldn't make milking any easier as cows wouldn't enter the parlour or behave while there. The machine, the walls, the cows and myself would be covered in ****e which isn't conducive towards clean milk or contented animals.

Now, I sell a small number of breeding stock every year and have a small number of repeat customers for those animals. They come back because they find the stock, and the bulls especially, quiet and easy to manage, as far as retagging animals in the field by just walking up to them. Now, I appreciate that doesn't fit anywhere even in the same universe as your narrative but, unfortunately for you, that's the reality.

I'm just after returning from feeding a lamb with meningitis, after checking the close in calvers, (Again, no sticks needed nor wanted) and i have had to step over my ewes because the lazy gits wouldn't get out of my way. They have a large paddock to rest in but they choose to sleep indoors just like they choose to totally ignore me walking through the shed. Again, not your YouTube friendly scene but one that's replicated all across the country.

Your efforts to paint farmers as psychotic mass murderers just comes across to the majority of people as being, at best, slightly deranged but work away, you're only making your cause look more bizarre the minute.

Now I must get a bit of sleep so I want to take this opportunity to wish you a happy #februdairy.

qwerty ui op

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Your efforts to paint farmers as psychotic mass murderers just comes across to the majority of people as being, at best, slightly deranged but work away, you're only making your cause look more bizarre the minute.

You do understand that anyone can simply go back and read what was said.
When I read your post it's clear you're going to obfuscate, deflect and do anything or everything to try stop a simple discussion.

So i'll keep it simple and ask again.

I'm concerned about a few aspects of everyday farming, maybe you or someone else can help me understand.


How do you stop a calfs horns from growing? How common do you think it is for farmers to let horns get bigger than whats recommended by the department?


How does an experienced farmer get trained up in using a Jack which as the name suggests is a JACK! with the power of 6 men?


How common is it for farmers to make no weaning preparations and just rip the calf away and lock up the cow at weaning?

and again how do you get cattle to go somewhere they are too frightened to go ? such as from a pen up into a truck?

Any chance of people sticking to the questions asked.

Ariadne

I'm thinking of going pescetarian. I don't think I could completely cut meat out of my diet as I'm a total carnivore but I'm going to try to stick to fish and quorn products. I don't think I'll be completely rigid in that though, even reducing my intake of meat would be better for the environment. I've also been struggling with how pigs and chickens are kept and treated and I can't help thinking of it now when I have my rasher sandwich. It's ruining the tastiness for me so time to go for quorn instead.

Rows Grower

qwerty ui op wrote: »

You do understand that anyone can simply go back and read what was said.
When I read your post it's clear you're going to obfuscate, deflect and do anything or everything to try stop a simple discussion.

So i'll keep it simple and ask again.

I'm concerned about a few aspects of everyday farming, maybe you or someone else can help me understand.


How do you stop a calfs horns from growing? How common do you think it is for farmers to let horns get bigger than whats recommended by the department?


How does an experienced farmer get trained up in using a Jack which as the name suggests is a JACK! with the power of 6 men?


How common is it for farmers to make no weaning preparations and just rip the calf away and lock up the cow at weaning?

and again how do you get cattle to go somewhere they are too frightened to go ? such as from a pen up into a truck?

Any chance of people sticking to the questions asked.

A good cattle dog will do that for you.

yourdeadwright

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

If we don’t stop eating meat at the current rate then preventing the worse effects of climate change will be impossible. This is fact.

You can sacrifice your taste buds love for meat or sacrifice the planet and your life. Your choice.

Sacrifice the planet such absolute nonsense,

The planet isn't going to die any time soon , It will change like it has done since the beginning of time,

We may be speeding oit up quicker than ever but Humans are created by the planet we are part of the of the Bio Sphere we are not separate form the planet , (well not yet , not until we can reproduce else where )

Human ego likes to think we are more but we are not

We will eventually die out but more than 99 percent of living things to ever been on Earth are extinct, we will be no different,

yourdeadwright

All these vegan a hypocrites

Giving out yards about how eating meat kills the planet
Vegans cause deforestation for the oil's in there food, Why is it ok to cut down the rain forest's ?