38kWh Ioniq

BigAl81

paulm123 wrote:

The new ioniq is 34,850 (before dealer charges delievry and Mettalic )on the hyundai website compared to 32600 for the 40kw leaf similer spec leather seats etc ioniq has 312 range compared to 270 so not much in it,

Ha, thanks,I see it on their website now.

https://m.hyundai.ie/home/ioniq-electric.html

I wonder would metallic paint and delivery costs bring it up to the 37.3k I was told for the on the road price?

I confirmed the 37k price once by phone, once in person and twice in writing such was my shock at hearing 37k!!

Soarer

How to square this circle?

From the Hyundai website....

Charging Information

CCS Combo Rapid Charge Port (50kW)
Charging Cable - Emergency 3 Pin Connector (ICCB)
Charging Cable - 7 Pin Type 2

————————————————-

Thanks to an on-board-charger that has also been upgraded to 7.2kW, the battery only takes about 54 minutes to charge to 8055 state of charge (SOC) when connected to a 100 kW direct current (DC) fast charger station.


So onboard charging is limited to 50kW, but they’re using a 100kW charger as an example of charging speeds?

Also, like the I28, is there only one spec in Ireland, and two in the UK?

this.lad

paulm123 wrote: »

The new ioniq is 34,850 (before dealer charges delievry and Mettalic )on the hyundai website compared to 32600 for the 40kw leaf similer spec leather seats etc
ioniq has 312 range compared to 270 so not much in it,

nicer interior bigger screen,

still prefer Kona though won't be switching.

After the grant?

Mickeroo

BigAl81 wrote: »

Ha, thanks,I see it on their website now.

https://m.hyundai.ie/home/ioniq-electric.html

I wonder would metallic paint and delivery costs bring it up to the 37.3k I was told for the on the road price?

I confirmed the 37k price once by phone, once in person and twice in writing such was my shock at hearing 37k!!

If I remember right the rrp of the 28kwh on the website was about 2k below the on the road price in dealers so I'd well believe what you were told.

BigAl81

;(

Probably a separate thread, but how can dealers advertise a price that doesn't include mandatory charges like delivery that are over a grand.

Surely that's false advertising?

Round Cable

BigAl81 wrote: »

;(

Probably a separate thread, but how can dealers advertise a price that doesn't include mandatory charges like delivery that are over a grand.

Surely that's false advertising?

Apparently, there is no VRT added to these types of charges, so that's why they separate them out from the price of the car.

BigAl81

Hum,

But you have no choice and you must pay it, so it should be included in the advertised price.

Be like going into a pub that has 4 euro pints on their website, then you get there it's a fiver a pint to pay the keg delivery man. It wouldn't happen in any other industry!

Round Cable

BigAl81 wrote: »

Hum,

But you have no choice and you must pay it, so it should be included in the advertised price.

Be like going into a pub that has 4 euro pints on their website, then you get there it's a fiver a pint to pay the keg delivery man. It wouldn't happen in any other industry!

Fully agree with you, but if the delivery and other charges are not sufficiently delineated from the price of the car, then you could be paying more tax.

VW are quite good at separating the charges and then give you a complete on the road price.

fricatus

Sat into one of these in the dealership the other day. Must say it feels a lot more premium than my own 28 kWh (white with cloth seats; this was blue with leather, two-tone grey/black interior).

If it just meant stretching the finance out an extra two years, I'd be sorely tempted. The fast charging is a bummer, but I only occasionally do a fast charge anyway and the longer range might help out with that (i.e. you start out from home with more juice).

EoghanGetthere

The previous contributions on this thread have been great to read through; very valuable info!

I pushed the dealer hard on this but he came back to me to say there's no budging on the €36K from Hyundai head office as the supply is limited.

Looking back, the second hand 28Kwh is available for €24-29K [1] so in effect you are paying ~€10K more for 33% more range (195km [2] vs. 260km [3]) and (slightly? signficantly?) worse fast charging in the new model.

Looking upwards, if you spent €3K more you could get the Kona for a 400km range [4] (this is displayed as €40845 in Mooneys but haven't looked at it properly due to the small boot)
or for €2.5K more you could get the Leaf e+ for a 330km range [5]

Ioniq is my pick but will be waiting til the latter half of the year to see if the price comes down. Maybe when an updated spec Kona comes out that will move the prices along.


[1] https://www.adverts.ie/for-sale/q_hyundai+ioniq+2019/
[2] https://ev-database.org/car/1057/Hyundai-IONIQ-Electric
[3] https://ev-database.org/car/1165/Hyundai-IONIQ-Electric
[4] https://ev-database.org/car/1204/Hyundai-Kona-Electric-64-kWh
[5] https://ev-database.org/car/1144/Nissan-Leaf-eplus

Dont be at yourself

€36K is mental money. I know that in the case of the Kona, they were sold direct by Hyundai online and the dealer took a very small margin for delivery -- noses were very out of joint and they weren't interested in selling them at all. Not sure if that's still the case.

KCross

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

€36K is mental money. I know that in the case of the Kona, they were sold direct by Hyundai online and the dealer took a very small margin for delivery -- noses were very out of joint and they weren't interested in selling them at all. Not sure if that's still the case.

They still sold over 1000 Kona EV's last year (same as the Leaf) which is a decent number of them so they cant be that pissed off!

Dont be at yourself

KCross wrote: »

They still sold over 1000 Kona EV's last year (same as the Leaf) which is a decent number of them so they cant be that pissed off!

They'd have rather sold 1,000 extra Tucsons instead, I'm sure!

liamog

I don't think they were sold online in Ireland? I think that's how they did it in the UK though.

Dont be at yourself

liamog wrote: »

I don't think they were sold online in Ireland? I think that's how they did it in the UK though.

For sure when they first were available, you had to apply online and select your desired dealer. A lot of marques doing similar for EVs now I think.

liamog

They called that system Click To Buy in the UK, using Wayback machine (web.archive.org), I can't see any evidence of that system being used on the Irish site.
It seems weird that they'd implement it, and then stop using it almost straight away and at the same time managed to have hidden it.

Black_Knight

Where are Mooneys getting €40845 from? I know "delivery and related charges" BS applies, but 2k over the list price? They've regularly advertised 2nd hand Ioniqs at stupid money too.

Weigh up the difference between a 2019 Ioniq and a 2018 Ioniq. I know 2019 has a heated steering wheel as standard, but i'm not sure what else vs 2017-2018.
Boardsie selling their 2017 here with leather seats.

Silent Running

EoghanGetthere wrote: »

The previous contributions on this thread have been great to read through; very valuable info!

I pushed the dealer hard on this but he came back to me to say there's no budging on the €36K from Hyundai head office as the supply is limited.

Looking back, the second hand 28Kwh is available for €24-29K [1] so in effect you are paying ~€10K more for 33% more range (195km [2] vs. 260km [3]) and (slightly? signficantly?) worse fast charging in the new model.

Looking upwards, if you spent €3K more you could get the Kona for a 400km range [4] (this is displayed as €40845 in Mooneys but haven't looked at it properly due to the small boot)
or for €2.5K more you could get the Leaf e+ for a 330km range [5]

Ioniq is my pick but will be waiting til the latter half of the year to see if the price comes down. Maybe when an updated spec Kona comes out that will move the prices along.


[1] https://www.adverts.ie/for-sale/q_hyundai+ioniq+2019/
[2] https://ev-database.org/car/1057/Hyundai-IONIQ-Electric
[3] https://ev-database.org/car/1165/Hyundai-IONIQ-Electric
[4] https://ev-database.org/car/1204/Hyundai-Kona-Electric-64-kWh
[5] https://ev-database.org/car/1144/Nissan-Leaf-eplus

Niro? Streets ahead of the Kona, bigger and much higher spec.

unkel

EoghanGetthere wrote: »

Looking back, the second hand 28Kwh is available for €24-29K

There was one for sale a couple of days ago for just under €20k, which is a bargain!

As Bjørn Nyland says: don't buy the 38kWh new Ioniq, buy the 28kWh Ioniq "Classic" second hand

At about €31-32k the Ioniq 38kWh would be a reasonable buy. €36k is insane. For a couple grand more you'd have the 64kWh Kia e-Soul

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

There was one for sale a couple of days ago for just under €20k, which is a bargain!

As Bjørn Nyland says: don't buy the 38kWh new Ioniq, buy the 28kWh Ioniq "Classic" second hand

At about €31-32k the Ioniq 38kWh would be a reasonable buy. €36k is insane. For a couple grand more you'd have the 64kWh Kia e-Soul

I view the Ioniq 38 like the leafs 40/62. Grand cars if you get them cheap and you never need to fast charge, ever.

EoghanGetthere

ELM327 wrote: »

I view the Ioniq 38 like the leafs 40/62. Grand cars if you get them cheap and you never need to fast charge, ever.

The longest distance journey I was using for evaluation was ~240km one way (overnight charging for way back) so the idea was that in the 38kw I'd usually make it without a charge, but occasionally could get away with a 15min top up fast charge.

My interpretation of the Bjørn Nyland video is that he was waiting around an hour to get to 90% and that the charging speeds were dropping off for the second half of the charging period. Is there any evidence that the 38kwh is radically slower at charging compared to the 28kwh up to the period of time at which the 28kwh would be full? i.e. is there any evidence that the 28kwh can add range faster than the 38kwh. Genuinely interested to know! I don't think that video explores this.

https://youtu.be/gh9n5Vq7mjw?t=1054
"I've been charging for over an hour to 90%"
"The old one charges faster" -> sounds like he's just comparing how long it takes to fast charge to full, rather than looking at the fast charge rate.

ELM327

EoghanGetthere wrote: »

The longest distance journey I was using for evaluation was ~240km one way (overnight charging for way back) so the idea was that in the 38kw I'd usually make it without a charge, but occasionally could get away with a 15min top up fast charge.

My interpretation of the Bjørn Nyland video is that he was waiting around an hour to get to 90% and that the charging speeds were dropping off for the second half of the charging period. Is there any evidence that the 38kwh is radically slower at charging compared to the 28kwh up to the period of time at which the 28kwh would be full? i.e. is there any evidence that the 28kwh can add range faster than the 38kwh. Genuinely interested to know! I don't think that video explores this.

https://youtu.be/gh9n5Vq7mjw?t=1054
"I've been charging for over an hour to 90%"
"The old one charges faster" -> sounds like he's just comparing how long it takes to fast charge to full, rather than looking at the fast charge rate.

Considering the peak speed of the 38 is 52kW and the peak of the 28 is 70kW, and the charge curve is 62kW to 70kW at 77% SOC in the 28 vs a taper at 56% SOC in the 38, I'd be pretty confident in saying that there is no point anywhere in the charge curve where the 38 can add range at even close to, let alone faster, than the 28.


If you never have to stop at all then the 38 is of course better but that's the only advantage. And there's onluy 50-75km more in the 38.

Mickeroo

EoghanGetthere wrote: »

The longest distance journey I was using for evaluation was ~240km one way (overnight charging for way back) so the idea was that in the 38kw I'd usually make it without a charge, but occasionally could get away with a 15min top up fast charge.

My interpretation of the Bjørn Nyland video is that he was waiting around an hour to get to 90% and that the charging speeds were dropping off for the second half of the charging period. Is there any evidence that the 38kwh is radically slower at charging compared to the 28kwh up to the period of time at which the 28kwh would be full? i.e. is there any evidence that the 28kwh can add range faster than the 38kwh. Genuinely interested to know! I don't think that video explores this.

https://youtu.be/gh9n5Vq7mjw?t=1054
"I've been charging for over an hour to 90%"
"The old one charges faster" -> sounds like he's just comparing how long it takes to fast charge to full, rather than looking at the fast charge rate.

This is the vid you want, I think it tops out at 41kw if I'm not mistaken:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsWq_YrbDhs

And here's the old one topping out at around 68kw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3gJ8fWW5g

For what it's worth I'd happily trade up for the extra range over the faster charging as I hardly ever need to fast charge, the price jump is the bigger issue imo.

EoghanGetthere

Ah okay, I wasn't looking at the right videos.

BUT can I assume that there are no fast level chargers in Ireland at the level of the 350kw fastned charger he mentions?

All I can see when on the ESB map is 50kw charging points on the routes I'm interested in (filtering by Combo CCS - maybe the ioniq can handle other charger types?)

unkel

EoghanGetthere wrote: »

The longest distance journey I was using for evaluation was ~240km one way (overnight charging for way back) so the idea was that in the 38kw I'd usually make it without a charge, but occasionally could get away with a 15min top up fast charge.

That is a good use case for the Ioniq 38kWh

It's fine if you just need a fast charge "top up", but it would be bad if you needed fast charging to near full regularly. The 38kWh will be slower over 1000km than the 28kWh.

Mickeroo

EoghanGetthere wrote: »

Ah okay, I wasn't looking at the right videos.

BUT can I assume that there are no fast level chargers in Ireland at the level of the 350kw fastned charger he mentions?

All I can see when on the ESB map is 50kw charging points on the routes I'm interested in (filtering by Combo CCS - maybe the ioniq can handle other charger types?)

What routes are they? I'd be prioritising Ionity over ESB if I was donig a journey where I know I'd need a charge which should do over 50kw.

To be fair though, I agree with Unkel in that your use-case sounds perfect for the 38kwh.

EoghanGetthere

Wasn't aware of the Ionity chargers either; https://ionity.eu/en/where-and-how.html
Is anyone regularly seeing +50kw charging speeds in the 28kwh in Ireland?

The following is based on the assumption that at non-ionity charging stations, the 38kwh can deliver the same charging speeds as the 28kwh in order to add up to 130km of range (50% of the 38kwh capacity; basing this on this chart: https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/223715447-Charging-with-a-Hyundai-Ioniq which has a misleading graph as it's comparing percentages battery, not range added)

- If your current long distance one way journey is between 195km and 260km then the 38kwh is a clear winner (no fastcharge needed in 38kwh e.g. Dublin to Sligo 209km - this is going by the ranges given at https://ev-database.org/car/1165/Hyundai-IONIQ-Electric#charge-table and https://ev-database.org/car/1057/Hyundai-IONIQ-Electric)

- If that journey is between 260km and 390km, then the 38kwh and 28kwh are comparable with one fast charge stop (so long as your fast charge point for the 28kwh is around half way, and for the 38kwh one you don't fast charge over 50%. The 28kwh one will always still be slightly quicker and definitely if there's an Ionity fast charger or similar at the stop)

- For journeys over that, then you are going to need more than one fast charge in the 28kwh. And you can still take those same stops with the 38kwh (you just don't charge above 50%). Where the complication is is whether it's quicker in the 38kw to do 2 50% fastcharge stops, or try to do a single journey with only one fast charge to 90%.

E.g. Dublin to West Cork = ~400km You could probably do it in the 38kw with one hour long fast charge in Fermoy (224km from Dublin - motorway driving), but maybe it'd be faster (in the 38kwh) to take one half hour fastcharge stop at Cashel and another top up at Macroom to give you enough range to get to your destination.

So I guess if you don't like taking unnecessary breaks on your long trips (kids asleep in back) then the 38kwh is better, but you'd better be prepared for longer lunch stops.

unkel

You pretty much nailed it there, EoghanGetthere. You know the limitations of the 38kWh Ioniq and how it compares to the 28kWh and the 38kWh seems a good car for your needs. Are you not bothered about the price though? It is about €5k overpriced imho

And to answer your question, yes the 28kWh Ioniq is quite fast on Ionity. You will see charging speeds of up to 70kW and average speed from 0% to about 80% of over 60kW

EoghanGetthere

Thanks unkel, that's pretty appealing with those Ioniq 28kWh fast charge rates — and to clarify I'm *not* going for the car at the current price.
I think the tipping point for the mast majority of potential owners EVs is when you can see you can do that intermittent trip home (e.g. to your parents house) without a charge and without range anxiety. So range is king for market adoption and I imagine manufacturers know this.
Now I have to go looking at 10yo 2nd hand Skodas (or Priuses) as a stopgap and re-evaluate the market this time next year.

KCross

EoghanGetthere wrote: »

I think the tipping point for the mast majority of potential owners EVs is when you can see you can do that intermittent trip home (e.g. to your parents house) without a charge and without range anxiety.

+1
The mass market aint going to fork out €35k+ for a car that only does 90% of their journeys. We're getting closer though. The price and choice is still a big problem.

EoghanGetthere wrote: »

So range is king for market adoption and I imagine manufacturers know this.

They do, which is why the majority of the cost gains that have been made in dropping battery prices have gone into increasing the battery capacity(and hence range) rather than delivering cheaper cars with the same range.

EoghanGetthere wrote: »

Now I have to go looking at 10yo 2nd hand Skodas (or Priuses) as a stopgap and re-evaluate the market this time next year.

What range and price is your tipping point?
Have you looked at the WLTP ranges of the ID.3?

Other cars coming this year.... e208 and Corsa-e and of course Model 3.