38kWh Ioniq

liamog

For anyone needing to use the rapid charge network whilst one of these is charging, it's a huge issue.
We've gone from a period where cars aimed to rapid charge in 30 mins, to 1 hour being the new standard.
It's one thing when this is due to deficiencies in the charging network (lack of high power chargers) and it's another when it's due to manufacturers making anti-social decisions.

The only way the system works in a way to stop this problem is if network operators charge per the minute instead of per kWh, maybe then people will learn to optimise the time they spend charging their cars.

Did someone say the Ioniq 38 charges as slow as a Leaf 40 Kwh ?

wtf ? backwards the manufacturers are going !

JPA

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did someone say the Ioniq 38 charges as slow as a Leaf 40 Kwh ?

wtf ? backwards the manufacturers are going !

Please read threads!

ELM327

Absolute heap of crap.
Have just finished watching all of Bjorn's videos.

I derided Nissan for the crap they release with L40/L62, but this is arguably worse. They took a great EV, Ioniq 28, and crapped it up.

F**k's sake.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Absolute heap of crap.
Have just finished watching all of Bjorn's videos.

I derided Nissan for the crap they release with L40/L62, but this is arguably worse. They took a great EV, Ioniq 28, and crapped it up.

F**k's sake.

They probably thought that with the extra range that no one would want to "fast charge" or probably rarely need to and while people might not want to fast charge every day they don't want to be waiting an hour when they do, it wouldn't be acceptable for a Petrol or Diesel car so why is it acceptable for electric cars ?

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

They probably thought that with the extra range that no one would want to "fast charge" or probably rarely need to and while people might not want to fast charge every day they don't want to be waiting an hour when they do, it wouldn't be acceptable for a Petrol or Diesel car so why is it acceptable for electric cars ?

It's not even that much extra range.
My old Ioniq 28 would have easily done 140-150km in the bit he did, driving the same way.
The Ioniq28 is now going to end up being a bit of a unicorn, much better charging speeds than anything else

If I wasn't set on my next EV being a longer range one, the Ioniq28 is so far ahead of anything else at its age, battery size and price bracket, that I wouldnt rule out going back to one!

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

It's not even that much extra range.
My old Ioniq 28 would have easily done 140-150km in the bit he did, driving the same way.
The Ioniq28 is now going to end up being a bit of a unicorn, much better charging speeds than anything else

If I wasn't set on my next EV being a longer range one, the Ioniq28 is so far ahead of anything else at its age, battery size and price bracket, that I wouldnt rule out going back to one!

I can't say I'd part with the i3 Rex now in a hurry, at least not until the charging infrastructure "greatly " improves and I can charge at 100 Kw minimum, and that's 100 Kw for more than 5 mins lol.

No Rex with the 44 Kwh i3 no increase in charge power.

I.D.3 going to be expensive, capped at 50 Kw will have to get the 70 Kwh seemingly to get 100 Kw and that will probably be a 50 K car at that rate might as well get a Model 3.

No light at the end of this tunnel...........I'll probably just pay the balloon on the i3 next November and keep it.

liamog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I.D.3 going to be expensive, capped at 50 Kw will have to get the 70 Kwh seemingly to get 100 Kw and that will probably be a 50 K car at that rate might as well get a Model 3.

We'll find out tonight, but the info upto now was the mid range ID.3 would be 100kW capable and the long range 125kW. There's been rumours that the short range would only hit 50kW. Only a couple more hours till we find out.

liamog

Bizarre, they release this 'broken' Ioniq then join Ionity.
https://ionity.eu/en/news-storage/hyundai-on-board.html

I wonder if there is some in fighting with the Nexo fuel cell team?

There are a lot of powerful folk wanting us to get addicted to Hydrogen like we are Petrol/Diesel.

However a Hydrogen generator like the petrol Rex would be great, I wouldn't say no to that at all but Hydrogen production is very energy intensive and no use unless it comes from 0 emissions sources. Can burn Natural gas in engines far more efficiently.

Old diesel

ELM327 wrote: »

Absolute heap of crap.
Have just finished watching all of Bjorn's videos.

I derided Nissan for the crap they release with L40/L62, but this is arguably worse. They took a great EV, Ioniq 28, and crapped it up.

F**k's sake.

Thank goodness for Tesla .

Old diesel

Old diesel wrote: »

Thank goodness for Tesla .

Expensive cars though.

Old diesel

Worth remembering that unlike Nissan Kia and Hyundai do offer a proper 64 kwh solution.

If you do the journeys where this charging problem is an issue - then the 64 kwh car is available via eNiro etc.

There was very little about this 38 and 39 kwh battery being crap when it was fitted to cars that have a 64 kwh battery option.

This tells me that outside the Ioniq enthusiast community this isn't going to be a major issue in the wider EV world.

You just go 64 kwh instead for long journey work.

Old diesel

Deleted User wrote: »

Old diesel wrote: »

Thank goodness for Tesla .

Expensive cars though.

Well yes - but they are pushing the boundaries.

Today's Tesla results is what is achieved in cheaper PSA or Renault or VW stuff in years to come .

So yes thank goodness for Tesla for pushing EVs beyond "it will do mentality"

Mickeroo

The 38kwh would actually suit my regular driving needs quite well and it would mean i no longer need to public charge or use granny cable on my one semi regular long trip (220km round trip of so) but then I think of when I had to do a 400km+ round trip earlier in the summer and how painless it was because the 28kwh charges so quick.

Having to occasionally plan around a bit of granny charging seems a small price to pay for the convenience the current model offers on longer trips.

ELM327

Old diesel wrote: »

Worth remembering that unlike Nissan Kia and Hyundai do offer a proper 64 kwh solution.

If you do the journeys where this charging problem is an issue - then the 64 kwh car is available via eNiro etc.

There was very little about this 38 and 39 kwh battery being crap when it was fitted to cars that have a 64 kwh battery option.

This tells me that outside the Ioniq enthusiast community this isn't going to be a major issue in the wider EV world.

You just go 64 kwh instead for long journey work.

Except there isnt a 64kWh Ioniq (probably because it would blow the kona out of the water)

KCross

Old diesel wrote: »

Worth remembering that unlike Nissan Kia and Hyundai do offer a proper 64 kwh solution.

If you do the journeys where this charging problem is an issue - then the 64 kwh car is available via eNiro etc.

There was very little about this 38 and 39 kwh battery being crap when it was fitted to cars that have a 64 kwh battery option.

This tells me that outside the Ioniq enthusiast community this isn't going to be a major issue in the wider EV world.

You just go 64 kwh instead for long journey work.

You might be right. Its much the same as rapidgate for the L40. It caused a huge stir within the EV community but doesnt affect the vast majority of people in this country.

However, the thing is, will the general population be able to figure all this out and buy the right EV for them?

Buying an EV is significantly more technical than buying an ICE. kW's and kWh's and charge points and PHEV's etc etc. The majority of the population wont have a clue and will buy based on their hearts (how they feel about the car and how it drives) and their wallets more than the charge speed and only find out about the 1hr charge time afterwards!

Case in point, will someone looking at this 5 door hatch for ~€30k really opt for the Kona EV for €8k more because of the charge speed... very unlikely, so they are stuck then with 1hr charge times on their long journeys.



Im still confused how its so bad considering it has active liquid cooling. The old Ioniq only had air cooling. Active liquid cooling should have enabled much better charge rates.

Mickeroo

ELM327 wrote: »

Except there isnt a 64kWh Ioniq (probably because it would blow the kona out of the water)

True but the new Ioniq is going to be only a couple of grand short of the price of the e-niro/kona 64kwh models if the rumours on price are to be believed.

It's like they are doing everything in their power tto kill the car tbh, I genuinely think the Ioniq could be the fabled "EV for the people" if Hyundai wanted it to be but they clearly don't.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

You might be right. Its much the same as rapidgate for the L40. It caused a huge stir within the EV community but doesnt affect the vast majority of people in this country.

However, the thing is, will the general population be able to figure all this out and buy the right EV for them?

Buying an EV is significantly more technical than buying an ICE. kW's and kWh's and charge points and PHEV's etc etc. The majority of the population wont have a clue and will buy based on their hearts (how they feel about the car and how it drives) and their wallets more than the charge speed and only find out about the 1hr charge time afterwards!

Case in point, will someone looking at this 5 door hatch for ~€30k really opt for the Kona EV for €8k more because of the charge speed... very unlikely, so they are stuck then with 1hr charge times on their long journeys.



Im still confused how its so bad considering it has active liquid cooling. The old Ioniq only had air cooling. Active liquid cooling should have enabled much better charge rates.

It's a function of the lower voltage in the 39kWh pack from the smaller kona. In the Kona it's expected to be the small pack - but now in the Ioniq its the big pack and its limitations are exposed.

Old diesel

ELM327 wrote: »

Old diesel wrote: »

Worth remembering that unlike Nissan Kia and Hyundai do offer a proper 64 kwh solution.

If you do the journeys where this charging problem is an issue - then the 64 kwh car is available via eNiro etc.

There was very little about this 38 and 39 kwh battery being crap when it was fitted to cars that have a 64 kwh battery option.

This tells me that outside the Ioniq enthusiast community this isn't going to be a major issue in the wider EV world.

You just go 64 kwh instead for long journey work.

Except there isnt a 64kWh Ioniq (probably because it would blow the kona out of the water)

Yes so its a pain for the small Ioniq community.

Everyone else just trots into Kia and buys an eNiro or eSoul 64kwh.

At head office in Kia/Hyundai they dont mind if you buy eNiro instead.

Yes of course there are waiting list issues but Ioniq would have had those too.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

It's a function of the lower voltage in the 39kWh pack from the smaller kona. In the Kona it's expected to be the small pack - but now in the Ioniq its the big pack and its limitations are exposed.

Not really though... the lower pack voltage explains the lower peak rates but it doesnt explain the throttling.

Why does this pack need to be charging at 14kW at 70% SoC when it has active cooling? Thats nothing to do with the lower pack voltage. Its a mystery to me.

Old diesel

On price .

Ioniq wont be 30 k - it will be in region of 33/34 k in line with eNiro imo.

We were supposed to be able to get into an eSoul 64 for just under 36 k - but I dont know if K2 is even available in reality .

The thing is that the 39 kwh pack was looking bad in a Kona when a youtuber tested it.

But no one cared because - well there's the 64 that does mega range and charges faster.

Old diesel

Just watched a Kona 39 kwh video.

And I'm wondering if the 35 kwh to 40 Kwh battery size is simply a problematical size in general.

The 28 to 30 kwh cars can deal with heat better so can regularly charge quickly.

However the 40 Kwh class runs into heat management challenges .

The 60 kwh class goes back to easier hear management because you charge less often and the C rate is more manageable.

Take the L62 - yes it's handicapped with no active cooling but the consensus with anyone that's made a comparison between L40 and L62 is that the latter is less crap in terms of heat build up.

During the first 300 miles L62 builds up less heat.

On Bjorns test as crap as it did - L62 battery temp at start of that horrific 3rd charge was still 5 to 6 degrees LESS then L40.

Looking at eGolf owner reports with big battery - I see a lot of 50 mins to 1 hour charging.

Granted eGolf is somewhat different in that if you arrive at 20 to 30 percent then 1 hours charging can be very near a full battery.

Well if owner reports are to be believed anyway .

Old diesel

Final thought - an Ioniq 38 kwh driver might not know how great the 28 is.

They will however check what claimed charge time is .

And crap as that is - the car does at least pretty much match it's charge time claim.

A typical Ioniq 38 driver will expect a 57 min charge time as that's what they've been told and read .

So sad that these cars will be using the infrastructure for much longer, shouldn't be this way.

samih

Luckily for Hyundai Nissan did the rapidgate legwork for them back in 2018. The only difference is that the I38 is full time rapidgate enabled.

With a liquid cooled pack this is joke but at the same time the battery should have an easy and long life in the car. This could be intentional crippling in place to steer people for 64 kWh Kona and the I38 just inherited the trait. The K64 doesn't really do a sterling job either as the charging rate drops down to 22 kW for the last 30 percent of the charging cycle and the car will then proceed towards 100 percent for another hour after the rate has fallen down to 22 kW (as I witnessed last time when queueud at a rapid charger a few months ago).

Mickeroo

Is it definitely liquid cooled?

Jaysus that's not great, time to bring in pay per Kwh and say, triple after 40 mins and 1 euro per min after 1 hr .

KCross

Mickeroo wrote: »

Is it definitely liquid cooled?

All the reports are that it is liquid cooled. It has two vents that auto open in the front grill when required, to let air into the radiator. You can see it in the videos.

The throttling would be understandable if it didnt have liquid cooling. Maybe it only works when on the road and not when charging or something.... something is definitely up with it anyway that it cant handle more than 14kW at 70% SoC!

Mike9832

KCross wrote: »

All the reports are that it is liquid cooled. It has two vents that auto open in the front grill when required, to let air into the radiator. You can see it in the videos.

The throttling would be understandable if it didnt have liquid cooling. Maybe it only works when on the road and not when charging or something.... something is definitely up with it anyway that it cant handle more than 14kW at 70% SoC!

Probably to protect cycle life or increase energy density to fit the pack into car

Race to bottom now, something has to give

Cobalt and all the expensive compounds are being phased out to get cost down and manufacturers like Hyundai are not running dedicated platforms for EVs, trying to squeeze what batteries they can into ICE platforms like Ioniq