Some Zoe questions

unkel

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Cost 15 leaf 14000

Cost 15 Zoe 7000. Rental 5000(6yrs). Total 12000

Cost 14 Leaf 9000
Cost 14 Zoe 6000 Rental 5000(6yrs). Total 11000


After 5 years:

Value Leaf 5000
Value Zoe 0

Total cost:

Leaf: 4000
Zoe: 11000

Your money, your choice, dude.

And you're not really comparing apples with apples, the Leaf is a far better car.

Look for the higher spec, called SVE.

Leaf battery was 5,500 Euro's could and should be cheaper now and you're guaranteed a brand new battery !

Screw Renault with their reconditioned battery is what I say !

Zoe had a fantastic AC charger, but to me that's probably the best thing about it.

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

Cost 14 Leaf 9000
Cost 14 Zoe 6000 Rental 5000(6yrs). Total 11000


After 5 years:

Value Leaf 5000
Value Zoe 0

Total cost:

Leaf: 4000
Zoe: 11000

Your money, your choice, dude.

Pretty much it

Car is worthless without a battery

Andy From Sligo

get what your saying but you are not factoring in breakdown built in with the battery rental , which i understand unlimited tows to a charging station if I read and heard correctly.

so strange you get a Leaf fan saying leaf is best and then you get someone say the zoe is best. - just finished watching a youtube vid where a UK guy has a leaf (gen1 granted) but was gonna buy another leaf but a garage has let him test drive a Zoe (40kwh?) and is so impressed with it he gonna buy the zoe as his next car now instead.

and I only found out a Zoe is a renault/nissan alliance .. didnt know that

Mancomb Seepgood

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

get what your saying but you are not factoring in breakdown built in with the battery rental , which i understand unlimited tows to a charging station if I read and heard correctly.

so strange you get a Leaf fan saying leaf is best and then you get someone say the zoe is best. - just finished watching a youtube vid where a UK guy has a leaf (gen1 granted) but was gonna buy another leaf but a garage has let him test drive a Zoe (40kwh?) and is so impressed with it he gonna buy the zoe as his next car now instead.

and I only found out a Zoe is a renault/nissan alliance .. didnt know that

Any decent fully comp policy should cover roadside assistance,or AA membership would definitely cover it and be a hell of a lot cheaper than battery rental.For something that's very unlikely to happen with a bit of common sense.

BENDYBINN

Mike9832 wrote: »

Pretty much it

Car is worthless without a battery

I don’t understand..........the Zoe battery will be at %75 minimum. The leaf battery could be only at 30%?
Surely it’s the leaf that’s worthless?

KCross

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

get what your saying but you are not factoring in breakdown built in with the battery rental , which i understand unlimited tows to a charging station if I read and heard correctly.

As already pointed out a few times, thats worthless.

The batteries dont breakdown.

Most insurance policies include breakdown cover and if its not included in yours you can almost certainly get it added for small money. Have a look at your policy.

unkel

BENDYBINN wrote: »

I don’t understand..........the Zoe battery will be at %75 minimum. The leaf battery could be only at 30%?
Surely it’s the leaf that’s worthless?

The Leaf battery won't be at 30%. A 2011 would be typically at 10 or 11 bars. 9 bars would be particularly bad (still 75%)

Zoe would be worthless as only a fool would take over the expensive monthly lease. Why do you think there are dozens and dozens of cheap Zoe battery lease cars for sale in the UK?

unkel

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

so strange you get a Leaf fan saying leaf is best

I don't think I've ever been accused of being a Leaf fan before :pac:

Markcheese

Whats to stop renault (or the leasing company) just discontinuing the lease scheme,
Ie. You pay the lease for years, your battery drops below 75%or what ever and you call in your warranty.. They chuck in an 80% refurb and tell you you're on your own.. Scheme over..

How long will they stand over the warranty.?

KCross

Point also worth noting around battery leasing is that Nissan discontinued it for the Leaf. They were called "flex". They stopped providing it because it was no longer required or desirable.


They, like Renault, had battery rental at the start to alleviate early adopter's justified fears at the time of the batteries not lasting. 9 years later manufacturers (and consumers) know that the batteries dont just die. They degrade but continue to function fine.

The only batteries I've heard of being replaced are ones in hot climates. I'm not aware of any replacements in UK/Ireland due to degradation, so the battery rental model is a bad idea as your ability to sell it on is severly restricted and will cost you more in the long run.

Gumbo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

get what your saying but you are not factoring in breakdown built in with the battery rental , which i understand unlimited tows to a charging station if I read and heard correctly.

Your insurance company provides this as part of the policy also!

Markcheese

On a slight side note, who ever the leasing company/warranty provider is, must have been onto a great little earner, because the batteries haven't failed, just predictably degraded, so 6 years on they're still collecting 55 to 80 quid a month per unit sold, with relatively little warranty work required... I assume though, that work will start to come due soon... Making them much keener to get out of leases... At least on older vehicles... Does anyone know what the timeframes are on the leases, and what break clauses there are/ could be...?
Honestly when the older Zoes get cheap enough, that warranty could be brilliant,keeping a car alive almost indefinitely...

unkel

Markcheese wrote: »

I assume though, that work will start to come due soon...

Nope. Battery will most likely be fine, but will slowly degrade. If it goes below the threshold, I very much doubt Renault will stick in a new battery. They will probably just refurb the pack so it comes up slightly above the threshold again. Job done.

Money making scheme is right. Only a fool or someone really desperate would get a battery lease EV at this stage...

BENDYBINN

unkel wrote: »

Nope. Battery will most likely be fine, but will slowly degrade. If it goes below the threshold, I very much doubt Renault will stick in a new battery. They will probably just refurb the pack so it comes up slightly above the threshold again. Job done.

Money making scheme is right. Only a fool or someone really desperate would get a battery lease EV at this stage...

A new leaf will depreciate at a rate of 3 grand a year......pretty big cost..

unkel

Who was talking about a new Leaf?

I was comparing a 2014 9k Leaf with a 2014 6k battery lease Zoe

Markcheese

BENDYBINN wrote: »

A new leaf will depreciate at a rate of 3 grand a year......pretty big cost..

New cars depreciate... Fast,
New electrics cars seem to depreciate slower that new ice ones...
But that's largely down to supply and demand, not due to any wonder characteristics of evs.

Gumbo

BENDYBINN wrote: »

A new leaf will depreciate at a rate of 3 grand a year......pretty big cost..

So similar to any other car....petrol, diesel or EV?

Andy From Sligo

unkel wrote: »

Nope. Battery will most likely be fine, but will slowly degrade. If it goes below the threshold, I very much doubt Renault will stick in a new battery. They will probably just refurb the pack so it comes up slightly above the threshold again. Job done.

Money making scheme is right. Only a fool or someone really desperate would get a battery lease EV at this stage...

i'm desperate ... i'm most probably a fool as well - ah well sure!

BENDYBINN

kceire wrote: »

So similar to any other car....petrol, diesel or EV?

Yes,but posters on here calling people fools for paying 800 a yr battery rental
have no problem buying a car that loses three grand a yr in depreciation

Gumbo

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Yes,but posters on here calling people fools for paying 800 a yr battery rental
have no problem buying a car that loses three grand a yr in depreciation

The problem will be when said fool tries to sell on a car in the future with battery rental. Said fool will be stuck with it.

And, I don’t think anyone suggested to anybody that a new leaf was better value than a 15k car as that where this argument stems from.

Andy From Sligo

kceire wrote: »

The problem will be when said fool tries to sell on a car in the future with battery rental. Said fool will be stuck with it.

And, I don’t think anyone suggested to anybody that a new leaf was better value than a 15k car as that where this argument stems from.

I have heard a lot of "when they try and sell a car in the future" - why does someone have to buy a car and not hold onto it until its EOL? and not buy it to think about selling it on again?

and also to be honest sometimes have got to have a different mindset as well

Buy a brand new car ... and know that its going to loose thousands as soon as you drive it off the forecourt.

Buy a new car and realise if it is a EV with battery lease, its going to have to be sold a lot cheaper on the secondhand market .

once you are forewarned and get your head around that then your under no illusions

Markcheese

I can still see the worth of a battery rental leaf...you pay 5 or 6 grand for a battery rental zoe, and you don't have to worry about the battery degrading below a certain level...
I've had a 6 grand vehicle (was worth more than that to me) that just died, and was told by 3 different mechanics, scrap it... It cost me to get the thing towed,
If I had to pay 50 / 60 quid a month (what I pay a week for diesel) to ensure my cheapo vehicle stays alive, that sounds like a good deal...

Mike9832

Markcheese wrote: »

I can still see the worth of a battery rental leaf...you pay 5 or 6 grand for a battery rental zoe, and you don't have to worry about the battery degrading below a certain level...
I've had a 6 grand vehicle (was worth more than that to me) that just died, and was told by 3 different mechanics, scrap it... It cost me to get the thing towed,
If I had to pay 50 / 60 quid a month (what I pay a week for diesel) to ensure my cheapo vehicle stays alive, that sounds like a good deal...

Would you rent a battery for your phone?

Andy From Sligo

Mike9832 wrote: »

Would you rent a battery for your phone?

how much to replace a battery in a phone? mainly peanuts - you cannot do like for like in that kind of thought

a EV car battery - i think I read a Leaf 22kw was €5000 dollars (maybe price changed now and cheaper? but I shouldnt think much cheaper)

Mike9832

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

how much to replace a battery in a phone? mainly peanuts - you cannot do like for like in that kind of thought

a EV car battery - i think I read a Leaf 22kw was €5000 dollars (maybe price changed now and cheaper? but I shouldnt think much cheaper)

I have never read of a Zoe or Leaf battery dieing

Degrading a bit, yes

Your covering a risk that is 99.9% not going to happen

Andy From Sligo

heres a thing - with the zoe battery rental , sure they say under 80% (or is it 70%?) they will replace dead cells or fit a refurbished battery or in extreme case replace with new battery ... but fine that's the part/battery taken care of .. but what about 'fitting/installation/labour' charge? - I have not seen any mention of that .. and that is more than likely a very extensive job replacing a battery on an EV .. I bet they really have to strip it all down ... sounds expensive $$$$$


Our hotpoint washing machine - 5 years warranty on parts when we bought it new. Read the reviews on how much the labour costs are if the part goes, fine the parts are under warranty but the labour/fitting is not.

Read a review once - bloke paid 349eur for hotpoint washing machine the drum or the control board went within 3 years ... parts were quoted as free ... the labour was going to come to 280eur for washing machine repair man to call out and fit the parts .. they just went out and bought another washing machine (better than their present one) for 250euro

Andy From Sligo

Mike9832 wrote: »

I have never read of a Zoe or Leaf battery dieing

Degrading a bit, yes

Your covering a risk that is 99.9% not going to happen

makes me wonder - I read an article once when the leaf first came out and they nissan were asked 'how long will the battery last in a leaf EV car?' and they said 'should last for at least 10 years' - the life of the car 10years? - life of a car? at what was it when it first came out 20grand was it?

Andy From Sligo

I just watched a youtube video the other day where a guy test drove a Renault Zoe for 7 days and as it was charging up (think by granny cable) he had to unlock the doors and open the drivers door to see on the dashboard at the steering wheel to light up the display to see how much the battery had charged to.

Really?? - do you have to go through this palarvour to see at what stage the battery is charged to? - can you not just press a button on the remote and peer through the drivers window at the dash to see how much the battery has charged to? - or see it on a phone app?

in fact he unlocked the car and opened the drivers door once and the battery display didnt show on the dash, so he had to close the drivers door again , then lock it, then unllock it and open the drivers door again and then it came up on the display.

Gumbo

Andy, it sounds like you don’t want an EV.
That’s fine. Move on.

Some of your posts, with all due respect are rubbish. They are factually incorrect and are more along the lines of hearsay or pub talk.