Fox hunting

Sheep breeder

gozunda wrote: »

So you know it was a Drag Hunt (no hunting whatsoever) and It would appear to have been an unfortunate and sad accident. And there wasn't even a conviction. So what's your point making milage about a news story nothing to do with any fox hunting whatsoever. your exaggeration is noted btw.

A little bit more behind this story with the hunt loosing a lot of ground to hunt on over this incident.

Buford T. Justice XIX

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Yes the fox tears it’s prey apart once dead. But the foxhounds do it while the prey is still alive.

Can you really not see the difference?

Jaysus, Audrey, foxes don't wait till a lamb is dead before eating it. I've had to put lambs down and shoot foxes after seeing lambs wander around fields trailing their entrails.


I'm not sure where you got that information but it's as far from the truth as we are from the far edge of the universe!

Bigbagofcans

Feisar wrote: »

Basically that in an instance described that no harm was being done to anyone or anything that you might not have a problem with someone else's pastime.

Not out for a huge arguement on it however it comes across as very entitled sounding.

Wow you really are nitpicking. I don't know anything about draghunting hence my vague answer. I sound entitled? Get a life.

Bigbagofcans

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Here's one of the easily offended commenting on a subject which they need verification on what it is they are actually responding to,stating in a self entitled way that they might not be offended by someone else's pass time depending on what that pass time actually is.a classic

That comment hurts my eyes.

anewme

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

That comment hurts my eyes.

Try saying it without taking a breath!!!

Doctors room ghost

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

That comment hurts my eyes.

Says the one talking about nitpicking.
When you have to resort to being a grammar nazi you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Have to go now.heading out to see can I squeak a few foxes in within firing range and with this moon ill hardly even need the lamp.

anewme

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

That comment hurts my eyes.

Read it really quickly and just add.....

PARKLIFE

Bannasidhe

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

No rescues will take in hounds and no hunters will keep a load of hounds if they weren't allowed to hunt. The foxhound breed has been finely tuned over generations through selective breeding with the sole purpose of hunting a fox and running with a horse

Not true,
Every reputable Irish rescue takes in hounds. And rehomes hounds.

They also are the ones who go out in all weathers to get 'lost' hounds to safety after those responsible for the hounds have long since gone home to bed.

gozunda

Bannasidhe wrote: »

...

They also are the ones who go out in all weathers to get 'lost' hounds to safety after those responsible for the hounds have long since gone home to bed.

Again I'd say that does not match anyone I know who keeps hounds. Hounds are gathered and brought home asap. Any missing hounds are searched for until found. Locals who come across a lost or missing hound will ring and let the relevant person know or drop them off.
What I have seen in the last few years are people keeping hounds as pets and wondering why they are prone to escaping and often doing what hounds like doing. If they are used to a pack but not kept with others - they will often head of and escape looking for company. Just my own experiences of hounds.

Bigbagofcans

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Says the one talking about nitpicking.
When you have to resort to being a grammar nazi you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Have to go now.heading out to see can I squeak a few foxes in within firing range and with this moon ill hardly even need the lamp.

Animal abusers like you will get their karma some day. I'll sleep soundly tonight knowing I'm not a hunting scumbag like you.

AudreyHepburn

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Jaysus, Audrey, foxes don't wait till a lamb is dead before eating it. I've had to put lambs down and shoot foxes after seeing lambs wander around fields trailing their entrails.
U

I'm not sure where you got that information but it's as far from the truth as we are from the far edge of the universe!

Ok I was wrong, sorry. I didn’t mean to offend anyone.

But the point remains that there’s a world of difference between the fox doing what comes naturally out of necessity (it has to eat) and a pack of hounds doing it on the orders of people for their own entertainment.

Bigbagofcans

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Ok I was wrong, sorry. I didn’t mean to offend anyone.

But the point remains that there’s a world of difference between the fox doing what comes naturally out of necessity (it has to eat) and a pack of hounds doing it on the orders of people for their own entertainment.

You shouldn't apologise. Hunters should be apologising for the pain and suffering of foxes.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

You shouldn't apologise. Hunters should be apologising for the pain and suffering of foxes.

What's the hierarchy of suffering?


Are foxes 'worth' more than rabbits and hares?


Are they 'worth' more than lambs?


Is there a list out there quantifying the exact level of outrage we should be feeling and where do I find it?


We have had a major cull of foxes round here this winter because the mild winter so far has allowed more foxes to survive because of the ready availability of prey, namely rabbits and hares. Now they are mostly down below levels needed for foxes to comfortably maintain their population, they are going to try to source other prey, primarily lamb, or starve to death.


I also remember calving cows outside and one cow having difficulties in a slow calving in a mild winter like this one. I wasn't best pleased to see a fox dining on a calf, still alive, being born outside. Luckily, I was there before much damage was done but it took a lot of work to rear that calf when a portion of its lips were missing making sucking rather difficult.



There's no pain or suffering in culling foxes, one shot and the calves, lambs, rabbits and hares can breathe a sigh of relief.

Bigbagofcans

I doubt you, a hunter, cares much about hares and rabbits since you probably hunt them too.

Fox hunting causes unbearable suffering which hunters seem to get a kick out of.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

I doubt you, a hunter, cares much about hares and rabbits since you probably hunt them too.

Fox hunting causes unbearable suffering which hunters seem to get a kick out of.

Probably?


Again writing a narrative around supposition rather than fact.


Hunting hares is illegal firstly and, as I'm lucky enough to have a number of them breeding here, I do my best to keep them from disappearing from the locality. Leaving too high a population of foxes wouldn't encourage a healthy breeding population of hares.


Rabbits, meh. I don't hunt them but they have no need for protection, breeding as they do, like rabbits.


Did you ever wonder how foxes train their cubs to kill? They bring live prey down their borrows or leave injured prey outside where their cubs can practice killing and having fun with it too.


It's not like anything I'm telling you is a great secret, there's plenty of documentary evidence and sources online available for anyone to scour for information.



Nature isn't a modern version of a Beatrix Potter novella where all animals live in peace and harmony and have high jinks down by the river.
Predators kill and eat prey, sometimes extremely horrifically, or die of starvation themselves. Bucolic, it isn't.

gozunda

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

I doubt you, a hunter, cares much about hares and rabbits since you probably hunt them too. Fox hunting causes unbearable suffering which hunters seem to get a kick out of.

Wrong. Foxes are legally shot and hunted in very small numbers because they sometimes cause problems. And yes the country has a very healthy and thrivng poplation of foxes. Yes rabbits are also legally hunted. Hares are protected. I've eaten rabbit many times and continue to do so. In my experience foxes are killed quickly and that has been pointed out many times. As 'getting a kick out of'. Thats bs. It is what It is. Most of times hunting with hounds is about making fox wary of humans and habitation and dispearsing them so they don't cause problems.

AudreyHepburn

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

You shouldn't apologise. Hunters should be apologising for the pain and suffering of foxes.

Agreed but I think we’re fighting a losing battle on that score.

But then again what would a silly Arts Alumni like me know?

AudreyHepburn

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Probably?


Again writing a narrative around supposition rather than fact.


Hunting hares is illegal firstly and, as I'm lucky enough to have a number of them breeding here, I do my best to keep them from disappearing from the locality. Leaving too high a population of foxes wouldn't encourage a healthy breeding population of hares.


Rabbits, meh. I don't hunt them but they have no need for protection, breeding as they do, like rabbits.


Did you ever wonder how foxes train their cubs to kill? They bring live prey down their borrows or leave injured prey outside where their cubs can practice killing and having fun with it too.


It's not like anything I'm telling you is a great secret, there's plenty of documentary evidence and sources online available for anyone to scour for information.



Nature isn't a modern version of a Beatrix Potter novella where all animals live in peace and harmony and have high jinks down by the river.
Predators kill and eat prey, sometimes extremely horrifically, or die of starvation themselves. Bucolic, it isn't.

Of course they do, no one is saying otherwise. Nature is cruel sometimes and we can all accept that.

But respectfully - can you and other supporters of the Hunt honestly not see the difference between a fox hunting out of necessity and people hunting for fun?

Doctors room ghost

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

Animal abusers like you will get their karma some day. I'll sleep soundly tonight knowing I'm not a hunting scumbag like you.

I prefer the term pest controller,big bag of cans.Many thanks.

Buford T. Justice XIX

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course they do, no one is saying otherwise. Nature is cruel sometimes and we can all accept that.

But respectfully - can you and other supporters of the Hunt honestly not see the difference between a fox hunting out of necessity and people hunting for fun?

I don't hunt foxes for pleasure and I don't allow any hunts across my land. I hunt foxes out of necessity and in doing so reduce the levels of cruelty inflicted on their prey.


I neither like nor dislike foxes, a certain low level is one I can tolerate for the control they provide in reducing rabbit grazing of crops which impacts on yields and causes harvesting problems in cereal crops.


I have more tolerance for hunters than for for the glorified 'animal rights' activists who cause untold damage on farms by 'freeing' animals from housing and causing death and disease problems by their misguided antics. At least some benefit can accrue from the hunting, none at all from those activists stupidity.

gozunda

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course they do, no one is saying otherwise. Nature is cruel sometimes and we can all accept that.
But respectfully - can you and other supporters of the Hunt honestly not see the difference between a fox hunting out of necessity and people hunting for fun?

'For what its worth only the actual people ie the hunts man etc in charge of the hounds get to observe any kill. A fox is hunted for good reason. And the huntsman is not hunting for 'fun'. He might have satisfaction of a job done properly. It is what it is. No need for exaggeration tbh.

AudreyHepburn

gozunda wrote: »

'For what its worth only the actual people ie the hunts man in charge of the hounds get to observe any kill. A fox is hunted for good reason. And the huntsman is not hunting for 'fun'. He might have satisfaction of a job done properly. It is what it is. No need for exaggeration tbh.

I’ve said before I understand the need to cull even if I don’t like it.

But that’s not what the Hunt is. You don’t need hounds to control a population of wild animals.

gozunda

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’ve said before I understand the need to cull even if I don’t like it. But that’s not what the Hunt is. You don’t need hounds to control a population of wild animals.

The hounds don't 'control anything. They're a there for two reasons only. The first and most important is to disperse foxes and make them wary of human habitation and livestock. Shooting won't do that. Only to remove problematic fox (cull) do hounds hunt to kill. That kill is quick in my experience no matter what you've read. Traditional hunting takes out very very few foxes. That's how it is. This type of management has very successful to date and in Ireland the remaining fox population is thriving. This unlike the UK where fox numbers in rural areas have been decimated because local populations are no longer managed. But whatever you think yourself. Posters have done their best to explain what happens and why it happens. As I said there is absolutly no need for any exageration in this.

Rows Grower

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Probably?


Again writing a narrative around supposition rather than fact.


Hunting hares is illegal firstly and, as I'm lucky enough to have a number of them breeding here, I do my best to keep them from disappearing from the locality. Leaving too high a population of foxes wouldn't encourage a healthy breeding population of hares.


Rabbits, meh. I don't hunt them but they have no need for protection, breeding as they do, like rabbits.


Did you ever wonder how foxes train their cubs to kill? They bring live prey down their borrows or leave injured prey outside where their cubs can practice killing and having fun with it too.


It's not like anything I'm telling you is a great secret, there's plenty of documentary evidence and sources online available for anyone to scour for information.



Nature isn't a modern version of a Beatrix Potter novella where all animals live in peace and harmony and have high jinks down by the river.
Predators kill and eat prey, sometimes extremely horrifically, or die of starvation themselves. Bucolic, it isn't.

No it isn't.

This is a commonly held opinion that is wrong.

There is an open season from 26th September - 28th February and it is perfectly legal to shoot brown hare's during this time.

feartuath

Fox dug its way into my elderly mothers chicken run on Friday night and ate Lucy.
Lucy was a 6 year old hen and dearly loved her companion hen Winny and my mum.

Mum has given me strict instructions to blow the a@se of that fox and all his pals.

just waiting for this full moon to pass and I will be out with rifle and lamp.

Eamonn8448

feartuath wrote: »

Fox dug its way into my elderly mothers chicken run on Friday night and ate Lucy.
Lucy was a 6 year old hen and dearly loved her companion hen Winny and my mum.

Mum has given me strict instructions to blow the a@se of that fox and all his pals.

just waiting for this full moon to pass and I will be out with rifle and lamp.

Had the same thing here a few days ago but i think it was a bas***d of a mink, traps are down and once this flu passes lead will fly

Snugglebunnies

anewme wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

I have already said that I support a gradual faze out. I am sure that most horses are well looked after but there are serious bad issues with racing mainly caused by betting.

I have no problem with equestrian sports like show jumping.

Your comment about Greyhounds is ridiculous. They existed long before racing. In the 1930s they were considered a fashion accessory by wealthy women.

Greyhound racing is a dying "sport"

Someone in the Work Social suggested a night at the dogs. The responses were pretty harsh snd that idea was binned before it got off the ground.

As someone who works in dog rescue and picks up the pieces from the greyhound racing industry every day, I'm delighted to hear it!

theguzman

Each Fox that is killed is worth more than €1,000 to the economy. A fox could kill a lamb a day, each worth far in excess of €100 in economy activity. Farmers are right to kill as many Foxes as they can, I know lads who routinely poison the land to kill foxes and have poisoned a few wandering dogs also. Foxes are shot, trapped, poisoned and snared routinely by farmers and they are right to do it.

Snugglebunnies

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’m sure there are shelters that could take them in. Or the hunters could continue to keep them and look after them.

No rescues will take in hounds and no hunters will keep a load of hounds if they weren't allowed to hunt. The foxhound breed has been finely tuned over generations through selective breeding with the sole purpose of hunting a fox and running with a horse

That's bullsh1t, rescues do take in hounds. We've even had a few left behind by the hunt.

Sheep breeder

gozunda wrote: »

The hounds don't 'control anything. They're a there for two reasons only. The first and most important is to disperse foxes and make them wary of human habitation and livestock. Shooting won't do that. Only to remove problematic fox (cull) do hounds hunt to kill. That kill is quick in my experience no matter what you've read. Traditional hunting takes out very very few foxes. That's how it is. This type of management has very successful to date and in Ireland the remaining fox population is thriving. This unlike the UK where fox numbers in rural areas have been decimated because local populations are no longer managed. But whatever you think yourself. Posters have done their best to explain what happens and why it happens. As I said there is absolutly no need for any exageration in this.

First of all I am not a fan of hunts due to their attitude and will cull foxes with a rifle and lamp which they need to be controlled full stop, above you say the first and important is to disperse foxes, how do you figure this out if a fox is hunted it will return to its den and territory full stop, the fox does not get on the bus a move to Dublin4. Second didn’t know that hounds were able to check the fox pulse system to determine problematic one and by pass the good fox.
As Bulford has correctly stated the damage a fox does first hand is something that the do Gooders need to witness and see the damage they cause.
The best control is a bullet in time quick and fast and no glory involved.

Doctors room ghost

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

That's bullsh1t, rescues do take in hounds. We've even had a few left behind by the hunt.

Yeah rescues take in the odd stray hound but if fox hunting was banned in the morning as the antis wish,would the rescue centres be opening their doors and have the red carpet out for a couple of thousand hounds,most of which couldn't be rehomed?
I'd imagine it would be mass euthanasia and the nearest boghole or cremation.

feartuath

Rescue centres

I thought these people were worth a call when my 14 year old terrier had to be put to sleep.

I hand Limerick Animal Welfare, turns out you cannot rehome a rescued dog when you do not have an enclosed garden.

I am a farmer for feck sake how can I enclose a garden, a dog run is not good enough.

more discrimination from those double standard people.

Atoms for Peace

The fox feels nothing, it's made of string.

Snugglebunnies

feartuath wrote: »

Rescue centres

I thought these people were worth a call when my 14 year old terrier had to be put to sleep.

I hand Limerick Animal Welfare, turns out you cannot rehome a rescued dog when you do not have an enclosed garden.

I am a farmer for feck sake how can I enclose a garden, a dog run is not good enough.

more discrimination from those double standard people.

Because you can't home a dog someplace where it is free to wander. It can stay away, get killed on the road or get into trouble with livestock or neighbours. You're not responsible for the dog if it can leave your property unaccompanied.

Snugglebunnies

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

That's bullsh1t, rescues do take in hounds. We've even had a few left behind by the hunt.

Yeah rescues take in the odd stray hound but if fox hunting was banned in the morning as the antis wish,would the rescue centres be opening their doors and have the red carpet out for a couple of thousand hounds,most of which couldn't be rehomed?
I'd imagine it would be mass euthanasia and the nearest boghole or cremation.

Rescues would do their best to accommodate as many as possible but as someone else already said if fox hunting was banned in the morning the owners of the dogs would still be responsible for them. They would have to rehome them themselves or look after them even if they can't hunt them. It's pretty sick that they'd consider killing them all once they no longer have a purpose.

Jim 77

In Oscar Wilde's play, A Woman of No Importance, fox hunting is described as the "the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable"

Jim 77

Jim 77 wrote: »

In Oscar Wilde's play, A Woman of No Importance, fox hunting is described as the "the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable"

You’ve got some daily mirror reading farmers in here so I don’t think you’ll win them over with that one.

gozunda

Jim 77 wrote: »

In Oscar Wilde's play, A Woman of No Importance, fox hunting is described as the "the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable"

A peculiar quote considering Oscar Wilde was pursued for something then considered unspeakable and which is absolutely normal today. In that quote it's believed that Oscar was making a sly dig at those better off than himself. He latter died in penury.

Not generally in this part of the world - it would infact appear that the fox is considered edible by some. There really is no accounting for some peoples opinion I suppose.

https://www.livestrong.com/article/487204-how-to-cook-fox-meat/

Graces7

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Probably?



Did you ever wonder how foxes train their cubs to kill? They bring live prey down their borrows or leave injured prey outside where their cubs can practice killing and having fun with it too.


It's not like anything I'm telling you is a great secret, there's plenty of documentary evidence and sources online available for anyone to scour for information.



Nature isn't a modern version of a Beatrix Potter novella where all animals live in peace and harmony and have high jinks down by the river.
Predators kill and eat prey, sometimes extremely horrifically, or die of starvation themselves. Bucolic, it isn't.

Reminds me of someone on another forum a few years ago, when I said that my farmer neighbour was delivering a lamb and there was a fox watching waiting to pounce... She asked me was he a liar; she had read a book on foxes that loved them and opined they ate mostly rats..no danger to lambs. so clearly my neighbour was lying..

I have lived deep rural decades and know the risks and the blood lusts of foxes, lost too many hens to them too.

Thank you for your wisdom.

skooterblue2

Jim 77 wrote: »

In Oscar Wilde's play, A Woman of No Importance, fox hunting is described as the "the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable"

I would describe Oscar Wilde as a unfathomable pursuit of the unspeakable. 16 year old boys should be off the menu. A Predator in his own right.

Rows Grower

Anyone familiar with reading the Bible will recall that (Judges 15.4) Samson went out and captured 300 foxes, tied them together in pairs and then set their tails on fire before releasing them into the crops of the Philistines.

Samson was some man for the fox hunting.

Discodog

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Yeah rescues take in the odd stray hound but if fox hunting was banned in the morning as the antis wish,would the rescue centres be opening their doors and have the red carpet out for a couple of thousand hounds,most of which couldn't be rehomed?
I'd imagine it would be mass euthanasia and the nearest boghole or cremation.

So hunts would break the law regarding animal welfare.

The Greyhound industry already dumps it's unwanted dogs on rescues. We can't expect hunters to show any decency when it comes to the welfare of their dogs.

Discodog

feartuath wrote: »

Fox dug its way into my elderly mothers chicken run on Friday night and ate Lucy.
Lucy was a 6 year old hen and dearly loved her companion hen Winny and my mum.

Mum has given me strict instructions to blow the a@se of that fox and all his pals.

just waiting for this full moon to pass and I will be out with rifle and lamp.

It's so easy to make a hen house secure. I used some chain link fence under the house.

feartuath

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Because you can't home a dog someplace where it is free to wander. It can stay away, get killed on the road or get into trouble with livestock or neighbours. You're not responsible for the dog if it can leave your property unaccompanied.

Yet these same rescue centres will supply with as many cats as I want to roam the country side killing songbirds in their hundreds and spreading disease in farmland.

Discodog

feartuath wrote: »

Rescue centres

I thought these people were worth a call when my 14 year old terrier had to be put to sleep.

I hand Limerick Animal Welfare, turns out you cannot rehome a rescued dog when you do not have an enclosed garden.

I am a farmer for feck sake how can I enclose a garden, a dog run is not good enough.

more discrimination from those double standard people.

My pup came from a rescue & I don't have a secure garden. I explained that he would get two long off lead walks per day & the rescue were pleased to let me have him

Discodog

feartuath wrote: »

Yet these same rescue centres will supply with as many cats as I want to roam the country side killing songbirds in their hundreds and spreading disease in farmland.

Just to clarify this old chestnut. The RSPB say that changes to farmland etc is responsible for the drop in bird numbers, not cats.

https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/

Rows Grower

Discodog wrote: »

So hunts would break the law regarding animal welfare.

The Greyhound industry already dumps it's unwanted dogs on rescues. We can't expect hunters to show any decency when it comes to the welfare of their dogs.

Ask any vet or pharmacist who has customers that keep hunting dogs and you'll get a nice surprise.

Discodog

Rows Grower wrote: »

Ask any vet or pharmacist who has customers that keep hunting dogs and you'll get a nice surprise.

Hunt hounds or gundogs ?

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

Just to clarify this old chestnut. The RSPB say that changes to farmland etc is responsible for the drop in bird numbers, not cats https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/

Dealing with hoary chestnuts ...That's the Royal society for the Protection of Birds - as in the queen of England - as in the UK? So it's not a study relevant to this country ie the ROI then?. Just as we don't have the Rspca here? Clear on that yeah? Even if we were to take a single organisations view point it would appear that from other data from across the water that "Britain’s 11 million cats kill about 55 million birds and 220 million other animals each year". That's quite a lot imo.

See: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/protect-birds-by-putting-chips-on-cats-x002hcs0k

Plus it needs to be remembered that our agricultural sector is markedly different to that in the UK ....

Anyway I'd prefer to see a lot more relevant relevant studies. Thanks ....

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

Dealing with hoary chestnuts ...That's the Royal society for the Protection if Birds - as in the queen of England - as in the UK? So it's not a study relevant to this country ie the ROI then?. Just as we don't have the Rspca here? Clear on that yeah? Even if we were to take a single organisations view point it would appear that from other data from across the water that "Britain’s 11 million cats kill about 55 million birds and 220 million other animals each year". That's quite a lot imo.

See: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/protect-birds-by-putting-chips-on-cats-x002hcs0k

Plus it needs to be remembered that our agricultural sector is markedly different to that in the UK ....

Anyway I'd prefer to see a lot more relevant relevant studies. Thanks ....

You wouldn't believe anything that might oppose your view.