Calls for Graham Linehan to be removed from Prime Debate on transgender issues!

Zorya

BBFAN wrote: »

Bless, you obviously have no experience.

And you seem to overestimate surgical capability. A neovagina will have to be kept open with life long use of dilators or else it will shorten or even close. It has no natural lubrication, is prone to infection, can sometimes grow hair clumps inside due to improper treatment of follicles prior to inversion. No matter how much sex occurs there will never be conception so not much use for anyone who might like to make children. So, yeah, not the same as a biological woman. The vagina is not just a front hole or facsimile thereof.

Sonic Youth

klaaaz wrote: »

They are transsexual women who also have floods of estrogen flowing through their bodies like the born females. And all that entails in its consequences.

Funny how you and other posters have not mentioned once about transsexual men, known as trans-men, Typical misogyny.

Wait now, if a woman becomes a man, how can he be a victim of misogny?

This is a mind bending thread.

Dante7

BBFAN wrote: »

Alright, maybe I need simple language for you so, a transsexual woman who has had the operation is a WOMAN so why would any man balk at that?

You're doing your side no favours with this type of comment. This is a perfect example of where there are legitimate concerns. The radical trans folk think lesbians should suck their dicks.

AllForIt

Does anyone ever get confused about the terminology.

I had though that the term Gender Dysphoria related to the condition itself but on this website I link to below it says that it actually refers to to the mental anguish suffered as a result.

https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people

What is gender dysphoria?

For some transgender people, the difference between the gender they are thought to be at birth and the gender they know themselves to be can lead to serious emotional distress that affects their health and everyday lives if not addressed. Gender dysphoria is the medical diagnosis for someone who experiences this distress.

I also have been thinking about the the term transgender. Surely the trans part of the word comes from the word transition? Maybe not, maybe someone can inform me. But if it does come from the word transition is that an odd name for the condition and indeed the whole demographic. There is noting inherently naturally traditional about it save for medical expertise that has only been made possible in recent decades so say 70 years ago the designation transgender wouldn't make any sense.

Your, perpetually confused on this issue. Willing to be informed, but only if it makes sense.

AndrewJRenko

sabat wrote: »

Even if the surgeon somehow managed to cobble together a world-class vadge, you still have the butchered chest, Adam's apple, man shoulders, man forearms, man jawline, deeper voice etc to contend with. At best you're talking about a rough simulation of a woman's body.

We've all seen the trash reality TV shows where the guys couldn't pick the transvestite or transgender woman out of a line up, or worse. I'm told that if you head to Thailand, you might find some pretty confusing scenarios arising there that might challenge your certainty about being able to tell one from other.

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I can’t believe we may have some common ground here Andrew, it’s almost too new for me

Careful now. Down with that sort of thing.

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Seriously all cycling jokes aside I genuinely don’t have any issue with how adults conduct themselves, that is absolutely none of my business and not on my patch so not my problem.

Where I disagree with some here is in the absolute acceptance that a trans person male/female is as completely male/female as their “born” male/female counterparts. It’s not a holding back, or a denial of anyone’s right to live as whatever gender they please.

It's not an unusual view that you hold. I'm just wondering who gains from the refusal of absolute acceptance. If it's not you holding something back, and it certainly doesn't benefit transgender people, why would you (and many others) insist on bringing this to the fore in all these discussions?

ceadaoin.

klaaaz wrote: »

They are transsexual women who also have floods of estrogen flowing through their bodies like the born females. And all that entails in its consequences.

Funny how you and other posters have not mentioned once about transsexual men, known as trans-men, Typical misogyny.

What do you mean "all that entails in it's consequences"? We're not getting into the bonkers "trans women have periods" stuff now are we?

klaaaz

mazcon wrote: »

Or men with fannies

sabat wrote: »

Even if the surgeon somehow managed to cobble together a world-class vadge, you still have the butchered chest, Adam's apple, man shoulders, man forearms, man jawline, deeper voice etc to contend with. At best you're talking about a rough simulation of a woman's body.

Gravelly wrote: »

No she isn't. She's a man that's had an operation to look like a woman.

I could paint myself blue, but I still wouldn't be a smurf.

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Because he's a man who's had surgery to take on the crude appearance of a woman.

TCM wrote: »

A man who has 'the operation' is a man without a penis and with breasts through the use of medication. That's it. No more no less.

It's quite fascinating to see these keyboard warriors having more expert knowledge on specific transgender issues than the medical community who treat transgender people.
If you feel offended by this, please contact the HSE/NHS teams of qualified psychiatrists, psychologists, endocrinologists and the actual surgeons, who have studied in depth transgender issues all their working lives.

mcmoustache

technics121O wrote: »

lol the left is literally eating itself
us right wingers can relax and take over every government in europe, and the usa, and brazil

1488

Care to explain 1488 to those of us who don't frequent nazi sites?

mazcon

mazcon wrote: »

Or men with fannies

I'm referring to the fact that many women ( me included) would not want to have sex with a man with a vagina ie a transman. Funny how it was assumed to be about transwomen...who's phobic again, remind me?

One eyed Jack

BBFAN wrote: »

Nope, I'm a woman and I put no initials or anything else before what I am either.

As is a transsexual woman. She's a woman, what's the difference?

And believe me I know from experience men don't give two fcuks as long as there's a vagina involved.

I defy any man to tell me different.

I’m not sure there’s much point or need in telling you any different, it’s not likely to change your opinion either way, but I actually do give plenty of fcuks that there’s a lot more than just a vagina involved. I am not sexually attracted to transgender women, and that’s the difference - the qualifier ‘transgender’ is not necessary for women who’s sex is and always has been female throughout their whole life up to that point.

As for the whole point about what other criteria are considered relevant or irrelevant - anything which is considered fundamental to the nature of the sexual act is considered relevant. If a person has had gender affirmation surgery, I’m happy for them, just not so happy for them that I would want to engage in any sort of intimate acts with them.

This is all pretty much a moot point anyway as it’s incredibly rare that it happens, and when it happens, it can mean that the victim may make a complaint to the authorities, and the person could find themselves facing charges of sexual assault or rape.

Suffice to say - I don’t recommend anyone who is transgender ever try to do such a thing. They generally don’t, but there are that small minority who try and gaslight their victims into believing that there is no difference between them and a woman who is female and has always been of the female sex.

Gravelly

klaaaz wrote: »

It's quite fascinating to see these keyboard warriors having more expert knowledge on specific transgender issues than the medical community who treat transgender people.
If you feel offended by this, please contact the HSE/NHS teams of qualified psychiatrists, psychologists, endocrinologists and the actual surgeons, who have studied in depth transgender issues all their working lives.

Can you show me any scientific or medical evidence whatsoever that proves that there is no difference between a man who has an operation to become a woman, and an actual woman?

How many men who have transitioned to women have had babies for instance?
How many have managed to convert their chromosomes to XX?

Sittingpretty

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Careful now. Down with that sort of thing.





It's not an unusual view that you hold. I'm just wondering who gains from the refusal of absolute acceptance. If it's not you holding something back, and it certainly doesn't benefit transgender people, why would you (and many others) insist on bringing this to the fore in all these discussions?

For me it’s not just an opinion, it is a fact that a trans woman/man is not and never will be a biological woman/man.

Franz Von Peppercorn

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How has self-identification hurt women in Ireland in the two years since it happened here?

As I ceded before it hasn’t. Self identification has the potential to make women’s spaces and sports open to non transitioned trans women, ie full biological men.

This is why there’s clear disquiet amongst many online female forums.

Not quite 'nothing happened' - he was explicitly warned by the police to stop contacting a particular person.
https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/police-speak-to-father-ted-cocreator-after-twitter-transphobia-row-37393122.html

Seems like an odd waste of police time, investigating dead naming et al.

Sonic Youth

klaaaz wrote: »

It's quite fascinating to see these keyboard warriors having more expert knowledge on specific transgender issues than the medical community who treat transgender people.
If you feel offended by this, please contact the HSE/NHS teams of qualified psychiatrists, psychologists, endocrinologists and the actual surgeons, who have studied in depth transgender issues all their working lives.

You're not a woman and you never will be.


Mod-Banned

BBFAN

TCM wrote: »

A man who has 'the operation' is a man without a penis and with breasts through the use of medication. That's it. No more no less.

And yet posters on here are claiming that no-one is denying that transsexuals exist?

I don't get it?

Either you accept they exist or you don't?

BBFAN

Sonic Youth wrote: »

You're not a woman and you never will be.

Who are you referring to specifically?

Sonic Youth

BBFAN wrote: »

And yet posters on here are claiming that no-one is denying that transsexuals exist?

I don't get it?

Either you accept they exist or you don't?

Well you can say a transsexual man exists in the same sense that a enuch exists but you cannot say that a man can convert himself into a woman.

Sonic Youth

BBFAN wrote: »

Who are you referring to specifically?

Klaaz.

ceadaoin.

BBFAN wrote: »

And yet posters on here are claiming that no-one is denying that transsexuals exist?

I don't get it?

Either you accept they exist or you don't?

Transgender people exist. Literally no one has said otherwise. But they are not the same as a person who is not transgender. They don't magically literally become the opposite sex. Some people are not attracted to a person who has transitioned for various reasons and that's ok. Some people are, that's ok too. Whatever.

klaaaz

ceadaoin. wrote: »

What do you mean "all that entails in it's consequences"? We're not getting into the bonkers "trans women have periods" stuff now are we?

Nope, they do get some symptoms of having estrogen in their bodies just like born females do. You know this so I have no idea why you question it.

Gravelly wrote: »

Can you show me any scientific or medical evidence whatsoever that proves that there is no difference between a man who has an operation to become a woman, and an actual woman?

How many men who have transitioned to women have had babies for instance?
How many have managed to convert their chromosomes to XX?

So a woman who has no uterus is not a woman, that's cleared up then!

BBFAN

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Klaaz.

And how do you know what sex Klaaz is?

mazcon

It really is the new religion, isn't it? We are compelled to believe that material reality changes despite the evidence of our eyes. Unbelievers are to be hunted down and villified. It's not enough to act as if you believe....you must REALLY believe or the trannish inquisition will come after you.

Sonic Youth

BBFAN wrote: »

And how do you know what sex Klaaz is?

He's obviously been on the hormones.

Gravelly

klaaaz wrote: »

So a woman who has no uterus is not a woman, that's cleared up then!

Why do you keep making up outlandish statements and attributing them to posters who didn't say them?

Do you think nobody notices? Do you think we can't see your dishonesty?

Are you drunk?

One eyed Jack

BBFAN wrote: »

A transsexual who has had the operation is a woman, suggesting that they're not suggests that they don't exist.

Very simple.

How does that work for people who’s preferred gender pronouns are non-binary? Nobody is denying they exist, they’re saying themselves that they are neither man nor woman.

It’s very simple alright - gender and sex are two completely different concepts. Humans are a biologically dichotomous species - male and female. As regards gender, there can be an infinite number of genders, it still wouldn’t have any impact on biology.

klaaaz

Sonic Youth wrote: »

You're not a woman and you never will be.

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Klaaz.

That's some warped deflection, you're upset that posters who have an opposing view to yours has the medical community as their back up on the subject matter. As you watched Prime Time, have you contacted the clinic and their medical experts who treat trans people to state that your viewpoints on boards supercedes theirs?

Ken.

Mod- Sonic youth is taking a little holiday from AH. Please do not quote him/her as you won't get a reply.

AndrewJRenko

Sittingpretty wrote: »

For me it’s not just an opinion, it is a fact that a trans woman/man is not and never will be a biological woman/man.

Do you generally feel a need to say 'there is no God' every time someone mentions Christianity?

Sittingpretty

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do you generally feel a need to say 'there is no God' every time someone mentions Christianity?

I don’t, no.

Obtuse questions don’t detract from biological fact.

Do you generally feel the need to align others’ opinions with your own?

BBFAN

Dante7 wrote: »

You're doing your side no favours with this type of comment. This is a perfect example of where there are legitimate concerns. The radical trans folk think lesbians should suck their dicks.

My side? What side would that be?

AndrewJRenko

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I don’t, no.

Obtuse questions don’t detract from biological fact.

Do you generally feel the need to align others’ opinions with your own?

Isn't it the same though? The facts show there is no god. Some people choose to believe in it, so why do you let them on with their thing, while insisting on on 'the truth' for transgender people?

sabat

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm told that if you head to Thailand, you might find some pretty confusing scenarios arising there that might challenge your certainty about being able to tell one from other.

I lived in Bangkok for a year-I could spot a transexual quite easily after a few weeks. There are certain lines and ratios associated with the male body that just can't be fixed through surgery, even if their face is very pretty (I have no problem acknowledging that.)
Seeing as you raised the subject of Thailand, is the preponderance of transsexualism there (and to a lesser extent in other South East Asian countries) not prima-facie evidence that there is a strong social contagion element to the phenomenon? Otherwise it would have to be genetic or environmental, neither of which is the case.

Sittingpretty

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Isn't it the same though? The facts show there is no god. Some people choose to believe in it, so why do you let them on with their thing, while insisting on on 'the truth' for transgender people?

I do though, I’ve said that a thousand times.

If you’re asking me do I believe they are biologically equivalent to born women/men then no, I don’t.

I’m not sure I can articulate that in a way to make it better understood. You appear to find me in some way deficient because I won’t say that a trans man/woman is the same as a person that was born in a man/woman’s body.

I’ve yet to see any evidence even approaching a convincing argument from you, or anyone else in this thread to make me question fact.

fattymuatty

BBFAN wrote: »

Nope, I'm a woman and I put no initials or anything else before what I am either.

As is a transsexual woman. She's a woman, what's the difference?

And believe me I know from experience men don't give two fcuks as long as there's a vagina involved.

I defy any man to tell me different.

I'm really confused about the fact you seem to have so much to say but don't even know the basics of biology. Trans women can't have vaginas or birth canals as they are also called. So as you say yourself if men don't give two fcuks as long as there is a vagina, then it follows some men won't want to have sex with transwomen even post op as they don't have vaginas.

AllForIt

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Transgender people exist. Literally no one has said otherwise. But they are not the same as a person who is not transgender. They don't magically literally become the opposite sex. Some people are not attracted to a person who has transitioned for various reasons and that's ok. Some people are, that's ok too. Whatever.

Unfortunately this is what they *think* can happen through so called transitioning.

The problem is they know full well it's not the same and that is why they continue to have mental problems even when medical intervention has done as much as it can.

From all accounts some ppl feel better about themselves to a degree but like that trans man on Prime Time the other day he still seems to be struggling. And I doubt that's because he feels non acceptance in society, it's because of his own problems that he knows will never go away. Not that I think that's not possible given the right treatment.

MUFC91CS

One eyed Jack wrote: »

How does that work for people who’s preferred gender pronouns are non-binary? Nobody is denying they exist, they’re saying themselves that they are neither man nor woman.

It’s very simple alright - gender and sex are two completely different concepts. Humans are a biologically dichotomous species - male and female. As regards gender, there can be an infinite number of genders, it still wouldn’t have any impact on biology.

The argument against the whole biological debate is always that sex and gender are two different things and that gender exists on spectrum but I'm full sure if a trans person was filling out a form and was presented with a question relating to sex they would fill it in as there chosen gender identity or simply be offended by it.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

I think when it comes to children under the age of 18 anyone allowing and/or encouraging them to take extreme life changing drugs is tantamount to child abuse/wilful neglect. I think it is such a dangerous road to go down as a society.

Remember hearing about Fallon Fox a few years ago and how she is a transgender MMA fighter. Anybody that said, that looks like a man trying to kick the sh1t out of woman in a cage for money was put on 'Twitter blast'. That's when I knew this was a bad road.

kowloon

mcmoustache wrote: »

Care to explain 1488 to those of us who don't frequent nazi sites?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words

Will I Am Not

BBFAN wrote: »

I never called anyone any names. Just wondering why a man wouldn't have sex with a woman he found extremely attractive and was having a lovely time with?

Please explain?

Simple. A woman and a trans woman are not the same. I’ve no issue with an adult man transitioning to a woman, I’ll go along with whatever they want to be called and all the rest that goes with it but I’ve no interest in anything sexual with someone that used to be a man.

Franz Von Peppercorn

BBFAN wrote: »

A transsexual who has had the operation is a woman, suggesting that they're not suggests that they don't exist.

Very simple.

What if they transition the other way?

In any case you are wrong on this substantive point. Under Irish law you just need self id. No transition needed to be a woman.

Hotblack Desiato

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

I think it's suggested the Unisex facilities are more commonplace/opening to mostly appease transgenders unless I'm reading incorrectly.

They're bloody handy if you're a parent bringing child(ren) who are not the same sex/gender as you to a swimming pool.

Hotblack Desiato

technics121O wrote: »

lol the left is literally eating itself
us right wingers can relax and take over every government in europe, and the usa, and brazil

1488

Brazil? Bit brown for you, no?

90210

Cartroubles

Are there really people attacking posters that said they wouldn't want to have sex with a trans woman?

I'm all for live and let live, and that includes allowing people to have their sexual preferences.

suicide_circus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D_lK8cwmgg

HandsomeBob

^I think most of that crap is just born out of trolls on social media....and young people on the same platform who haven't a clue.

If you follow the stories of these women who have shared their story, it's clear the pain and stress that is caused by having not fully transitioned yet. I've never seen anyone ever get a chip on their shoulder about dating pre op and the limitations it causes.

I'd argue that making a video about this is actually more dangerous because it gives legitimacy to what's clearly only a thing on social media designed to wind people up. The video only serves to peddle further that every day fear of those "whack job trannies trying to manipulate us all."

All that being said I agree with the woman's general sentiment about how dating is down to preference and finding a partner - no one should get a chip on their shoulder about that.

crustyjuggler

Has Graham Linehan been knocked off his pedal stool yet ?

ohnonotgmail

crustyjuggler wrote: »

Has Graham Linehan been knocked off his pedal stool yet ?

Knocked off his what?

crustyjuggler

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Knocked off his what?

His ' pedal stool ' or for want of a better word his ' perch '

branie2

I think the poster means pedestal

ohnonotgmail

crustyjuggler wrote: »

His ' pedal stool ' or for want of a better word his ' perch '

One of these?