Calls for Graham Linehan to be removed from Prime Debate on transgender issues!

squawker

batgoat wrote: »

Seems pretty off for a person with no qualifications in relation to the subject to liken being transgender to bulimia......

So you have to be qualified to have an opinion now?

freshpopcorn

I clicked into the petition to see had it many signatures. I noticed one off my old teachers names in the recent signatures and he was a Boards user!

Gravelly

squawker wrote: »

So you have to be qualified to have an opinion now?

Only if you’ve the “wrong” opinion. If you have the progressive-approved opinion, you can be any oul head-the-ball and demand to be taken seriously, and call out anyone who questions you as a bigot.

yosser hughes

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If Billy wants to put on a dress and call himself Mary, I can't see the issue.

I do have an issue with censoring people who state that Billy's wearing a dress.

If Billy wants to use the same changing rooms as your 7 year old daughter at the pool is that not an issue for you?

Alrigghtythen

yosser hughes wrote: »

If Billy wants to use the same changing rooms as your 7 year old daughter at the pool is that not an issue for you?

Yes that's an issue and should not be allowed.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ste wrote: »

Why do you need to get on board with anything? Just let people live the way they choose. Isn't that what this is all about?

In a recent episode of It's Always Sunny they had a bit on what signage to out on the male/female toilets & it obviously decended into a farce (v funny) but the real answer was to just name both toilets Toilet/Wash room

That’s not how it ended up. Dee didn’t want the guys in her toilet. The ending was calling it an animal sh1thouse.

Really if things don't negativily impact/interfere with your life & makes others more comfortable/happy why wouldn't you support that? That's not asking you to "get on board" with anything other than being basically decent.

Self identification has a clear effect on women’s spaces, prisons, refuges and sports.

Let's not taint the simple concept of treating people well with edge cases.

Not really that edge case.

Feisar

Gravelly wrote: »

Only if you’ve the “wrong” opinion. If you have the progressive-approved opinion, you can be any oul head-the-ball and demand to be taken seriously, and call out anyone who questions you as a bigot.

Great point

One eyed Jack

Gravelly wrote: »

Only if you’ve the “wrong” opinion. If you have the progressive-approved opinion, you can be any oul head-the-ball and demand to be taken seriously, and call out anyone who questions you as a bigot.

That’s not true at all. You don’t have to be a qualified medical professional to have an opinion on either transgenderism or anorexia, but you can hardly deny that it helps your credibility a lot more than some jackass giving their opinions where it’s apparent that they haven’t a notion what they’re talking about. You can be any head-the-ball and demand to be taken seriously applies to anyone, even Graham Linehan, and he is entitled to dismiss anyone who disagrees with him as a “progressive”.

I don’t feel a need to question him as I don’t believe he has the potential to make any useful contribution to the discussion. Questioning him would be giving his opinions a legitimacy I feel they don’t deserve. IMO he’s simply best ignored, but RTÉ have chosen to entertain his nonsense because they desperately need the cash they know the programme will generate from advertising revenue.

yosser hughes

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Yes that's an issue and should not be allowed.

Billy's rights might override that.
So you see the consequences of being cool with trans men self identifying? Or just being blasé about men in dresses. Sure what's the big deal,live and let live right?
The point being when you legislate to normalise this it's too late to change your mind. When politics seems to be so influenced by vocal wingnuts on twitter you mi just get these unintended consequences

Franz Von Peppercorn

yosser hughes wrote: »

Billy's rights might override that.
So you see the consequences of being cool with trans men self identifying?

Would be illlegal in ireland. Probably.

Not that theres been many test cases in Ireland.

Alrigghtythen

yosser hughes wrote: »

Billy's rights might override that.
So you see the consequences of being cool with trans men self identifying? Or just being blasé about men in dresses. Sure what's the big deal,live and let live right?
The point being when you legislate to normalise this it's too late to change your mind.

I'd be in favour of being able to say, OI, Billy there's children in there and your making them feel uncomfortable. Can you change in the toilet?


Billy needs to play the part too and accept changing in the toilet. The world owes him nothing, no more nor less than the rest of us.

If I turn up to a black tie event in a shell tracksuit, people are going to notice, but they are not going to change their fancy dinner to a hamburger to suit me, nor will I demand them too. Same thing with Billy.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

I'd be in favour of being able to say, OI, Billy there's children in there and your making them feel uncomfortable. Can you change in the toilet?


Billy needs to play the part too and accept changing in the toilet. The world owes him nothing, no more nor less than the rest of us.

If I turn up to a black tie event in a shell tracksuit, people are going to notice, but they are not going to change their fancy dinner to a hamburger to suit me, nor will I demand them too. Same thing with Billy.

I don’t think you understand the legal situation here. Assuming that she has self identified and got her documents Billy ( short I suppose for willomena) is a woman legally. She may have a penis and beard, and huge muscle mass but she’s a woman in law.

Asking her to do anything differently than other women is legally discrimination.

yosser hughes

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

I'd be in favour of being able to say, OI, Billy there's children in there and your making them feel uncomfortable. Can you change in the toilet?


Billy needs to play the part too and accept changing in the toilet. The world owes him nothing, no more nor less than the rest of us.

If I turn up to a black tie event in a shell tracksuit, people are going to notice, but they are not going to change their fancy dinner to a hamburger to suit me, nor will I demand them too. Same thing with Billy.

You're not really grasping the issue here

HandsomeBob

squawker wrote: »

So you have to be qualified to have an opinion now?

You need to be qualified or adequately experienced in the issue if you want to go on public television to debate it.

squawker

HandsomeBob wrote: »

You need to be qualified or adequately experienced in the issue if you want to go on public television to debate it.

I know nothing about yer man apart from seeing him in a Alan Partridge episode and a writer for Father Ted

Maybe he has experience in this matter, and if he doesn't he will come across as a fool

Either way he quite entitled to voice his opinion if invited to the show

batgoat

squawker wrote: »

So you have to be qualified to have an opinion now?

HandsomeBob wrote: »

You need to be qualified or adequately experienced in the issue if you want to go on public television to debate it.

Particularly when you're making false equivalency such as likening being transgender to bulimia... Espousing that stuff does have a negative effect on the mental health on those who are dealing with being transgender. In the exact same way as bull**** views during the marriage referendum impacted the LGBTQ community when similarly nasty rhetoric was used.

HandsomeBob

squawker wrote: »

I know nothing about yer man apart from seeing him in a Alan Partridge episode and a writer for Father Ted

Maybe he has experience in this matter, and if he doesn't he will come across as a fool

Either way he quite entitled to voice his opinion if invited to the show

He is quite entitled to voice his opinion and I'm not against him appearing. I hope he does but if RTÉ do their job and get the opposing argument adequately stocked he'll get eviscerated.

A father or mother with Linehan's opinion really need to understand that their experience isn't the only experience and in turn need to do their research before getting up on the platform.

Billy86

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If Billy wants to put on a dress and call himself Mary, I can't see the issue.

I do have an issue with censoring people who state that Billy's wearing a dress.

I only did that a couple of times! :mad:

ste

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s not how it ended up. Dee didn’t want the guys in her toilet. The ending was calling it an animal sh1thouse.



Self identification has a clear effect on women’s spaces, prisons, refuges and sports.



Not really that edge case.

I watched the full ep alright but I thought it was pretty pointed that the obvious answer was to call both them toilets. Yes they then went on & ramped up the gag.

Please about those 4 sets of circumstances, what is the Implication?

I think a solution or reason could be used to minimize any discomfort/worry there. Obviously also there are arguments around sexual orientation & of course peados & predators can exist in both genders attracted to either/both.

paleoperson

VeryTerry wrote: »

I can't imagine either side would want Linehan representing them. His head is gone.

I haven't seen Linehan speak on these issues but I cannot imagine how someone could be too much against or too offensive to transgenderism in modern times.

They're giving medications and hormone-blockers to little kids who claim to identify as the other gender! Then hormones and surgeries to young teenagers.

Transgenderism a plague on modern society and there's a big backlash brewing in the US now, lawsuits are starting to be brought up against people who did operations, people who became transgender claiming the whole thing is nonsensical... the whole thing is starting to collapse.

AndrewJRenko

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The fact is though that very few women have felt threatened by another woman, sexually or otherwise. The majority of women have had an experience of a man making them uncomfortable.

Have many women felt threatened by a trans woman? Have the majority of women had an experience of a trans woman making them uncomfortable?

Dick phelan wrote: »

I ask this as a genuine question not to make a cheap point. If a white person or whatever said they now identify as black would anyone accept them for what they say they are. If not then why? Why is it we would say no to somebody saying they are a different race but accept people who say they are a different gender. Personally i think your born as you are, what you want to be is irrelevant when it comes to genetics and science. The facts are the facts and it's crazy a certain section of society think we should ignore it and pretend we can all change our gender if we like. Na i ain't getting on board with that.

Did you do much research to inform your opinion on this? Did you talk to any trans people, or to any of the experts that work with them? Did you read any life stories of trans people?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Anti self identification, yes.

Really? Any source for this?

squawker wrote: »

I would like to hear his opinion

Even if I agree or not

If you want to hear his opinion, follow him on Twitter or listen to his recent podcast. He isn't being silenced. The only question is to whether it's a good idea for a public service broadcaster like RTE bringing him onto to a serious, current affairs show on a sensitive topic.

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If Billy wants to put on a dress and call himself Mary, I can't see the issue.

I do have an issue with censoring people who state that Billy's wearing a dress.

No-one is censoring him. The only question is to whether it's a good idea for a public service broadcaster like RTE bringing him onto to a serious, current affairs show on a sensitive topic.

squawker wrote: »

So you have to be qualified to have an opinion now?

He's quite entitled to whatever opinion he likes. He isn't being silenced. The only question is to whether it's a good idea for a public service broadcaster like RTE bringing him onto to a serious, current affairs show on a sensitive topic.

yosser hughes wrote: »

If Billy wants to use the same changing rooms as your 7 year old daughter at the pool is that not an issue for you?

Has this problem come up at all in the two years since self-identification was recognised here? Anyway, don't most pools have changing cubicles now, not communal changing rooms?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Self identification has a clear effect on women’s spaces, prisons, refuges and sports.

Really? What effects has it had on women's spaces in the last two years here?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I don’t think you understand the legal situation here. Assuming that she has self identified and got her documents Billy ( short I suppose for willomena) is a woman legally. She may have a penis and beard, and huge muscle mass but she’s a woman in law.

Asking her to do anything differently than other women is legally discrimination.

Is there any legal basis for this personal claim? Any case histories, or any guidance for any legal expert?

squawker wrote: »

Either way he quite entitled to voice his opinion if invited to the show

The question isn't whether he's entitled to voice his opinion if invited on the show. The only question is to whether it's a good idea for a public service broadcaster like RTE bringing him onto to a serious, current affairs show on a sensitive topic.

paleoperson wrote: »

I haven't seen Linehan speak on these issues but I cannot imagine how someone could be too much against or too offensive to transgenderism in modern times.

They're giving medications and hormone-blockers to little kids who claim to identify as the other gender! Then hormones and surgeries to young teenagers.

Transgenderism a plague on modern society and there's a big backlash brewing in the US now, lawsuits are starting to be brought up against people who did operations, people who became transgender claiming the whole thing is nonsensical... the whole thing is starting to collapse.

Wishful thinking - pure fantasy.

Dante7

Medically and scientifically less that one in 20000 people are gender dysphoric, but five times as many as that self-identify as trans (and they are very generous stats on the medical side). At least four out five trans people aren't genuinely gender dysphoric. Trauma, abuse, PTSD, and a host of other psychiatric conditions account for the vast majority of self ID trans. We need to be very careful here. The correct treatment for most of these cases is counselling and CBT, not hormone therapy and chopping a kids balls off. There's a very nasty agenda at play here that has suckered in the progressives into thinking that this is something they have to support unquestioningly.

AndrewJRenko

Dante7 wrote: »

Medically and scientifically less that one in 20000 people are gender dysphoric, but five times as many as that self-identify as trans (and they are very generous stats on the medical side). At least four out five trans people aren't genuinely gender dysphoric. Trauma, abuse, PTSD, and a host of other psychiatric conditions account for the vast majority of self ID trans. We need to be very careful here. The correct treatment for most of these cases is counselling and CBT, not hormone therapy and chopping a kids balls off. There's a very nasty agenda at play here that has suckered in the progressives into thinking that this is something they have to support unquestioningly.

Do any of these numbers or comments relate to Ireland?

rgodard80a

HandsomeBob wrote: »

You need to be qualified or adequately experienced in the issue if you want to go on public television to debate it.

Way to start making up rules !


You don't need to be qualified to go on a jury.

jaxxx

I'm a sock.

pumpkin4life

Dante7 wrote: »

Medically and scientifically less that one in 20000 people are gender dysphoric, but five times as many as that self-identify as trans (and they are very generous stats on the medical side). At least four out five trans people aren't genuinely gender dysphoric. Trauma, abuse, PTSD, and a host of other psychiatric conditions account for the vast majority of self ID trans. We need to be very careful here. The correct treatment for most of these cases is counselling and CBT, not hormone therapy and chopping a kids balls off. There's a very nasty agenda at play here that has suckered in the progressives into thinking that this is something they have to support unquestioningly.

Yeah, who hates transgender people? Feck all really.

But the reality is that their life outcomes are horrible. 40% commit suicide and taking steroids fùcks up your body completely, tanks your life expectancy.

It sickens me that lads virtue signal using such a vulnerable group of people to do so. You want to out of your own free will? Sure, go for it. But don't fùck up some confused, effeminate kid who needs a bit of help, just to show how nice a person you are.

You're not nice.

But he's a woman inside!

Yeah, sure he is, keep telling yourself that.

Dante7

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do any of these numbers or comments relate to Ireland?

I am going to save you, me and everyone else a bit of time here. I could provide cited references to studies, peer reviewed papers by biologists, case studies and other empirical evidence. But it would be a waste of time with you. You would spot a comma out of place and then try to distract and drag the debate down that rabbit hole. No thanks. Not tonight.

AndrewJRenko

Dante7 wrote: »

I am going to save you, me and everyone else a bit of time here. I could provide cited references to studies, peer reviewed papers by biologists, case studies and other empirical evidence. But it would be a waste of time with you. You would spot a comma out of place and then try to distract and drag the debate down that rabbit hole. No thanks. Not tonight.

So that's a No then, none of them relate to Ireland. Didn't think so.

expectationlost

I thought RTE PrimeTime was supposed to be a show for investigations, people with first hand experience, experts and analysis not random pundits. Leave that to the Clare Byrne show atleast if you have to do it.

AndrewJRenko

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Yeah, who hates transgender people? Feck all really.

But the reality is that their life outcomes are horrible. 40% commit suicide and taking steroids fùcks up your body completely, tanks your life expectancy.

It sickens me that lads virtue signal using such a vulnerable group of people to do so. You want to out of your own free will? Sure, go for it. But don't fùck up some confused, effeminate kid who needs a bit of help, just to show how nice a person you are.

You're not nice.

But he's a woman inside!

Yeah, sure he is, keep telling yourself that.

You meant to say that 40% of attempted suicide, right?



http://www.teni.ie/page.aspx?contentid=673


It's a fairly shocking number, but it's also dramatically different to saying that 40% have committed suicide.


But it's also fairly meaningless in the context of this discussion, unless you can show that the poor outcomes are linked to or caused by the kind of treatments you disdain.

Dante7

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So that's a No then, none of them relate to Ireland. Didn't think so.

I knew you were going to say that. I was going to edit my post to predict you saying this. You have the debating ability of a gnat.

Let's break down your argument. You seem to impart some sort of significance to the fact that because there have been no issues in Ireland so far that it is not a problem. Self ID laws are very new in Ireland. In other areas where they have become more established, there are indeed incidents that give cause for concern. Just because it hasn't happened here yet doesnt mean it isn't an issue. People werent vying for world supremacy in Naas between 1939-45, but I heard it was a bit of a thing.

pumpkin4life

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You meant to say that 40% of attempted suicide, right?



http://www.teni.ie/page.aspx?contentid=673


It's a fairly shocking number, but it's also dramatically different to saying that 40% have committed suicide.


But it's also fairly meaningless in the context of this discussion, unless you can show that the poor outcomes are linked to or caused by the kind of treatments you disdain.

No it isn't. This is completely wrong.

A treatment that causes 40% to attempt suicide is a massive failure by any standard.

If Graham Linehan gets more people to realize how sinister this stuff is, then good for him.

paleoperson

pumpkin4life wrote: »

No it isn't. This is completely wrong.

A treatment that causes 40% to attempt suicide is a massive failure by any standard.

If Graham Linehan gets more people to realize how sinister this stuff is, then good for him.

I thanked this post for fwiw I do not believe that this treatment causes 40% to commit suicide.

batgoat

pumpkin4life wrote: »

No it isn't. This is completely wrong.

A treatment that causes 40% to attempt suicide is a massive failure by any standard.

If Graham Linehan gets more people to realize how sinister this stuff is, then good for him.

Except you have failed to provide any proof that the treatments cause suicidal ideation... Mental health issues are generally higher in the LGBTQ community but it's generally because of how ****ty society can be and not providing the right supports.

pleas advice

Dante7 wrote: »

Medically and scientifically less that one in 20000 people are gender dysphoric, but five times as many as that self-identify as trans (and they are very generous stats on the medical side). At least four out five trans people aren't genuinely gender dysphoric. Trauma, abuse, PTSD, and a host of other psychiatric conditions account for the vast majority of self ID trans. We need to be very careful here. The correct treatment for most of these cases is counselling and CBT, not hormone therapy and chopping a kids balls off. There's a very nasty agenda at play here that has suckered in the progressives into thinking that this is something they have to support unquestioningly.

seen a film about this once

HandsomeBob

rgodard80a wrote: »

Way to start making up rules !


You don't need to be qualified to go on a jury.

I'm confused about where you're questioning what I said.

Dante7

paleoperson wrote: »

I thanked this post for fwiw I do not believe that this treatment causes 40% to commit suicide.

Yeah, that's a leap. The suicide stats for trans are shocking, but it is not as simple as the trans activists would have you believe, saying it is down to non-acceptance. The majority of trans are not gender dysphoric. There are mental issues at play with a lot of self id trans, and that may explain a lot of the suicide stats.

AndrewJRenko

pumpkin4life wrote: »

No it isn't. This is completely wrong.

A treatment that causes 40% to attempt suicide is a massive failure by any standard.

If Graham Linehan gets more people to realize how sinister this stuff is, then good for him.

How exactly did you conclude that the treatment causes the attempted (not actual) suicides?

Dante7 wrote: »

I knew you were going to say that. I was going to edit my post to predict you saying this. You have the debating ability of a gnat.

Let's break down your argument. You seem to impart some sort of significance to the fact that because there have been no issues in Ireland so far that it is not a problem. Self ID laws are very new in Ireland. In other areas where they have become more established, there are indeed incidents that give cause for concern. Just because it hasn't happened here yet doesnt mean it isn't an issue. People werent vying for world supremacy in Naas between 1939-45, but I heard it was a bit of a thing.

Congrats on your ability to predict the future. Would you like to take a shot at the Lotto numbers for Wednesday?


I understand that St Michael's Terrace in Naas was known as Blueshirt Alley at one stage, so perhaps they did have their old world domination tendancies down there.


As for the self ID laws, yes, you're right, they are very new, and that doesn't mean there won't be any issues in the future. And yes, there have been issues elsewhere - different issues in different cultures in different legal systems, so the applicability of those issues to Ireland is questionable. The scope and extent of issues is highly dubious too, given the numbers involved in Ireland.



So is this really a big issue? Or is it people who are using a tiny number of international incidents to scaremonger or justify their own personal discomfort?

klaaaz

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Yeah, who hates transgender people? Feck all really.

There is still alot of hate out there including in this thread towards transgenders, self ID or medically transitioned ones.
Many transgender people have lost family, friends, work colleagues for the "crime" of coming out and transitioning. Plus the added affect for a trans woman to "pass" in the street in order to avoid violent men who get offended and attack them.
No wonder their mental health suffers, would you like to experience all of that? Don't think you would, it takes a very brave person to go through that experience.

Dante7

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So is this really a big issue? Or is it people who are using a tiny number of international incidents to scaremonger or justify their own personal discomfort?

Yeah, I do think it is a big issue. In similar jurisdictions we have already seen:
Self id trans bringing lawsuits against beauty parlours for not waxing his balls
Self Id trans sexually assaulting a woman with his penis in a female only institution.
Children given hormone blocking therapy and surgery against medical advice.
Self id trans competing and winning in women's sports.

There are a lot of serious issues to be discussed here. Just because it is the latest cause celebre for the right on crew doesn't mean it gets a free pass.

For those saying that Graham Linehan is not qualified to speak on this issue, I reckon he knows more about this subject than most people. It is a bit of a crusade with him and he has researched the subject thoroughly. I don't recall there being any objection to the numerous celebrities and left leaning media people being wheeled out to give their wholly inexpert views on abortion or homosexuality.

Dyr

klaaaz wrote: »

No wonder their mental health suffers, would you like to experience all of that? Don't think you would, it takes a very brave person to go through that experience.

Chicken and egg scenario there I suspect

Calhoun

Dante7 wrote: »

Yeah, I do think it is a big issue. In similar jurisdictions we have already seen:
Self id trans bringing lawsuits against beauty parlours for not waxing his balls
Self Id trans sexually assaulting a woman with his penis in a female only institution.
Children given hormone blocking therapy and surgery against medical advice.
Self id trans competing and winning in women's sports.

There are a lot of serious issues to be discussed here. Just because it is the latest cause celebre for the right on crew doesn't mean it gets a free pass.

For those saying that Graham Linehan is not qualified to speak on this issue, I reckon he knows more about this subject than most people. It is a bit of a crusade with him and he has researched the subject thoroughly. I don't recall there being any objection to the numerous celebrities and left leaning media people being wheeled out to give their wholly inexpert views on abortion or homosexuality.

Don't forget the laws in Ontario where not accepting your children as trans is liable as child abuse and they could be removed .

AndrewJRenko

Dante7 wrote: »

Yeah, I do think it is a big issue. In similar jurisdictions we have already seen:
Self id trans bringing lawsuits against beauty parlours for not waxing his balls
Self Id trans sexually assaulting a woman with his penis in a female only institution.
Children given hormone blocking therapy and surgery against medical advice.
Self id trans competing and winning in women's sports.

There are a lot of serious issues to be discussed here. Just because it is the latest cause celebre for the right on crew doesn't mean it gets a free pass.

I'm just not sure about the logic of picking up very rare, very extreme incidents in other countries and deciding that these are 'serious issues to be discussed' here. We've also had a plumber assaulting a child in Texas - is that a serious issue that needs to be discussed here too?

Dante7 wrote: »

For those saying that Graham Linehan is not qualified to speak on this issue, I reckon he knows more about this subject than most people. It is a bit of a crusade with him and he has researched the subject thoroughly. I don't recall there being any objection to the numerous celebrities and left leaning media people being wheeled out to give their wholly inexpert views on abortion or homosexuality.

What celebrities/left leaning media people where wheeled out on Prime Time specifically to give their wholly inexpert views?

Gimme A Pound

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I used to like Irish Simpsons Fans Facebook group until they deleted this, because it was offensive and they hate Linehan anyway.

I used to love that group so much but it became downright nasty. You could post the most odious pro IRA meme poking fun at people being killed, or glorify Soviet communism, but if it's something that THEY find offensive (and much milder) then deletion time. They're so brainwashed it's a cliche.

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Prime Time are airing a special about transgender issues on Tuesday night at 21:35. I believe it mainly involves young people but will also show older people who have transitioned.
Graham Linehan is due to appear on this but a petition has being started to have him removed. There was an article on the matter on an Irish newspaper website but it has being removed.
Where do people stand on this matter?

Personally I can see both sides on the matter when it comes to kids/teenagers transitioning and how it may effect them in the long term since it's such a big change to make but I'm no expert on the matter.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/opposition-to-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-being-on-tv-transgender-debate-skz8mp2rb


https://www.change.org/p/donogh-diamond-rte-to-remove-graham-linehan-piece-from-upcoming-prime-time-show-on-transgender-issues

Oh Well thats a mature way of winning an argument, just quash any opposition to it. :rolleyes:
Don't engage in any debate whatsoever..... I mean what exactly are they afraid of??? That he might make a few points that make the opposition have a rethink???? His ideas are perceived as stupid/knuckledragging, etc then at the very least have the courage to debate and debunk them... Trying to oppress his ideas no matter how flawed they are is just petty on so many levels

Yes, remind me exactly who are the fascists again???

donkeykong5

Is Graham linehan on rte Tuesday night. ?

Franz Von Peppercorn

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

As for the self ID laws, yes, you're right, they are very new, and that doesn't mean there won't be any issues in the future. And yes, there have been issues elsewhere - different issues in different cultures in different legal systems, so the applicability of those issues to Ireland is questionable. The scope and extent of issues is highly dubious too, given the numbers involved in Ireland.



So is this really a big issue? Or is it people who are using a tiny number of international incidents to scaremonger or justify their own personal discomfort?

I’ll cede one thing. The laws haven’t caused much issue here yet but we don’t seem to have the level of trans activism that the US or U.K. has.

It’s relatively easy to predict the outcome of cases though. Unless self id is unconstitutional then a trans woman is a legal woman. Ergo any discrimination against that legal woman in favour of a biological woman would be unlawful. This could include sports and existing most women spaces.

I can’t see any way around this unless justices overrule the law on some ground but that itself would be condemned as discriminatory, and I don’t think it will happen.

This isn’t quite the same as guessing lottery tickets.

ligerdub

batgoat wrote: »

Except you have failed to provide any proof that the treatments cause suicidal ideation... Mental health issues are generally higher in the LGBTQ community but it's generally because of how ****ty society can be and not providing the right supports.

Where is the evidence of this?

I don't mean of the prevalence of mental health problems in that community, or any of the letters apart from the T part. Where is the evidence that trans people have a higher rate of mental health problems because of external factors?

Ideally from an independent, unbiased source.

If you're stating opinion that's fair enough, but let's not state something for the purpose of convenience.

It's entirely possible that with all the supports in the world the suicide rates would still be very high for these people. How about suicide rates in the most liberal place on the planet, where pretty much nobody bats an eyelid at any of the LGBT letters? California for example. I'd be surprised if suicide rates there for trans folk relative to the general population were significantly different to the same ratio when compared to less liberal locations.

What if transgender people have a higher propensity towards this and other mental health problems? All the well wishing, acceptance, and support in the world won't fix that unfortunately. It's entirely understandable that this would be the case. After all, we're talking about people born with physiological patterns of one sex, but who have conflict about what sex they feel they are (not all examples fall into this bracket but a lot will) i.e. something in the brain. So somebody could have male sexual organs but a female brain, that is essentially the narrative we are told supports the validity of transgenderism. Even if we assume this to be true, is it such a big leap to suggest that this same brain is more likely to contribute to psychological problems for those people?

People are pitching themselves as allies to this movement before they fully understand the implications, and it is potentially a very dangerous thing for a lot of children out there, enabled by their parents.

Dante7

What z/he said. But it is becoming increasingly difficult to discuss or investigate this without being branded a transpbobe or bigot or alt-right.

The only way it would be less likely to get funding from a major university to study this would be if you got James Watson to sponsor the application.

AndrewJRenko

Dante7 wrote: »

What z/he said. But it is becoming increasingly difficult to discuss or investigate this without being branded a transpbobe or bigot or alt-right.

The only way it would be less likely to get funding from a major university to study this would be if you got James Watson to sponsor the application.

Has anyone branded you as a transphobe or bigot on this thread?