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Man, 65, convicted of purchasing sex in landmark prostitution case

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    There have been legitimate reasons given in the article you quoted. The fact that you don’t agree they are legitimate reasons is another matter entirely. You should challenge the law if you want to have any hope of changing it, rather than engaging in illegal activity in the hope you won’t fall foul of existing laws.
    Were there? This is the closest passage I could find to outlining why it should be not be legalised... except if anything, it is actually an extremely strong reason why it should be legalised (e.g. to cut out said trafficking by way of regulation and oversight): Sex buyers have been operating with impunity in Ireland for far too long, and we are hopeful that more convictions will be achieved under this legislation in future.

    I have never seen a prostitute nor could I ever see myself wanting to, but especially in the internet age where so much data collection on and screening of clients (background checks, references from other prostitutes if that`s a thing, etc) should be easy enough to do it makes so little sense not to - and makes it a lot safer for all involved. Having it out in the open also means if Mary has a client who punched her in the face `in the heat of the moment`or as a getaway when it came time to pay, or who scammed her etc would likely have avenues with which to let others knows and get said person blacklisted.

    The thinking that they will somehow reduce the demand is every bit as stupid and doomed to failure as the war on cannabis and other drugs.

    Were there other reasons in the article that I missed or something?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There’s no fail at all on my part. You simply have a different opinion to mine

    Nope. For example - as I said the first two paragraphs you quote do not even contain any reasons. That is not "opinion" at all. It is simply a statement of fact - there are simply no reasons there. You can read it again and again 100 times if you like - there simply isn't any there. Go try. You won't find any.

    So as I said. Fail.

    As for the third paragraph - there is no reasons there either but assumptions. Firstly the assumption about the "vulnerable". We have no evidence on offer there - despite their use of the word "evidence" as a flag for exactly where they did not offer any - as to how many of them are "vulnerable" or "exploited" at all. I am sure given your biases you want to assume some numbers there - but lets wait for some actual evidence from you shall we?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,021 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Watch “Doing Money”, a joint production by BBC and RTE.

    Based on a true story here in Ireland in recent times. It’s edge oif the seat stuff and I jumped with fright more than once. Fantastic acting from all of the leads, but so sad that this is based on a true story.

    A true story of a very brave lady who stood up against her captors and still did not get fair justice. She’s still getting over what happened. The customers don’t come across too well.

    These are the people who need help as this is happening amongst us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    The actual mechanics of how a punter like this unfortunate man is prosecuted would be interesting. How did they prove that the woman was an actual hooker? Did they have the place under surveillance ? Was he caught "in flagrante delicto"? How did they prove that he paid her, as this would be crucial to the case, I assume it was a cash transaction? Seems like there could be a new line of work here for legal people.


    A phantom hooker, she never even existed. Entrapment probably.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I think the authorities should concentrate on prosecuting traffickers and others who are abusing women.

    Transactions between consenting adults while considered immoral in the eyes of some should be no business of the state except to collect tax and protect public health .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    elperello wrote: »
    I think the authorities should concentrate on prosecuting traffickers and others who are abusing women.

    Transactions between consenting adults while considered immoral in the eyes of some should be no business of the state except to collect tax and protect public health .


    Stop speaking sense! This is 2019 dammit, sense will not be tolerated!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Nope.

    So as I said. Fail.


    You can “Nope” and “Fail” and all you like, but it still won’t change anything. The one thing that does appear to be having an effect is that the laws now exist to protect some of the most vulnerable members of society from exploitation and abuse, and to punish those people who would exploit and abuse them. I consider that a socially progressive step in the right direction. I’m not too bothered for your opinion tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Muckka


    anewme wrote: »
    Watch “Doing Money”, a joint production by BBC and RTE.

    Based on a true story here in Ireland in recent times. It’s edge oif the seat stuff and I jumped with fright more than once. Fantastic acting from all of the leads, but so sad that this is based on a true story.

    A true story of a very brave lady who stood up against her captors and still did not get fair justice. She’s still getting over what happened. The customers don’t come across too well.

    These are the people who need help as this is happening amongst us.

    I agree both parties need help.
    Sex addiction and prostituting goes hand in hand.

    Some guy's definitely need to get a grip, going out for kicks and the partners at home.
    Infidelity is rampant in this country.

    It's a deep subject and there's a lot of variables involved.

    I used to be flyfishing in the Fergus river in Ennis and from where I was swishing my fly rod, there's an apartment block, which looked like a Tupperware party for men.

    You'd see them on the phone looking for directions.
    It was doing the rounds that there was a brothel on the mill road...


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You can “Nope” and “Fail” and all you like, but it still won’t change anything.

    And you can dodge my points all you like but it still won’t change anything. Like - as I said - the simple fact that 66% of the paragraphs you quoted did not even contains any reasons at all despite you quoting them while claiming they do. Again that is not opinion. Simple fact.
    The one thing that does appear to be having an effect is that the laws now exist to protect some of the most vulnerable members of society from exploitation and abuse, and to punish those people who would exploit and abuse them. I consider that a socially progressive step in the right direction. I’m not too bothered for your opinion tbh.

    Oh hardly. We are discussing a single prosecution of a 65 year old man. How is that having any "effect" here really? Hardly torpedoed the underworld of crime here have we?

    You say it appears to be having an effect to protect some of the most vulnerable members of society from exploitation and abuse? Where? How? Who? You have offered no citations or links or data of it having protected _anyone_ at all. Even the sex worker who is involved in this case - assuming there was one and it was not a guard undercover or who knows what - why do we assume she was abused, vulnerable, exploited or in any way requiring or requesting our protections at all?

    So the only one peddling "opinion" here is you. Certainly not evidence or reasons anyway.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,530 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Muckka wrote: »
    It should be easy enough to filter it out, shouldn't it.

    The only things blocked here are some file sharing sites, not by the govt but by the ISPs themselves when lawyers threatened to throw lawsuits at them. I suppose if China can block websites, so can we. We are probably not arsed going that far.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Not all hookers are happy.
    Some are beaten, threatened and maimed by their pimps.
    Not all are there because they want to be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,295 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You can “Nope” and “Fail” and all you like, but it still won’t change anything. The one thing that does appear to be having an effect is that the laws now exist to protect some of the most vulnerable members of society from exploitation and abuse, and to punish those people who would exploit and abuse them. I consider that a socially progressive step in the right direction. I’m not too bothered for your opinion tbh.

    Laws existing on the statute books and actual protection are two entirely different things.
    You seem more concerned about what socially progressive laws are on the statute books than the actual impact of these laws.

    Apparently, there are highly organised criminal gangs which have already broken multiple laws to get these women into the state, and to run brothels, which was already illegal. The women were already "protected" and the highly organised criminal gangs were already being "punished".

    Laws all around the world on the statutes, drugs illegal, prostitution illegal, buying and selling, doesn't matter... all it does is fuel highly organised criminal gangs.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not all hookers are happy.

    So what? not all McDonalds workers are happy either. Should we make that illegal?
    Some are beaten, threatened and maimed by their pimps. Not all are there because they want to be.

    "Some" is nebulous at best but yes "some" are. And we should do what we can to help them. I am not sure how making the trade of genuine sex workers illegal to sell - or be purchased - is going to help anyone though. Bit like chopping off a hand to remove a wart. Overkill.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,295 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Not all hookers are happy.
    Some are beaten, threatened and maimed by their pimps.
    Not all are there because they want to be.

    Does that happen more in Ireland where brothels are illegal, or more in Germany, Netherlands where they are legal?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Does that happen more in Ireland where brothels are illegal, or more in Germany, Netherlands where they are legal?

    Happens everywhere.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Not all hookers are happy.
    Some are beaten, threatened and maimed by their pimps.
    Not all are there because they want to be.

    Agreed.

    Anyone who is beating,threatening or maiming a woman or a man should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    On the other hand if a woman or man wishes to participate in the sex trade that is their own business.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,295 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Happens everywhere.

    Why do we need these laws then?
    As opposed to say better laws, powers and resources on people trafficking?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    Doubt he was the first one caught but all other cases were held back until the "the dirty old man" was brought to court

    the quango zealots made sure of it

    No doubt about it. When you get older you're not allowed to have or even want to have sex. Out of all the prostitution going on up and down the country they pick this guy. It seems unlikely that a 65 year old man is going to be engaged in aggressive or antisocial activity as they are usually glad to get anything at all at that age.

    What makes it doubly ridiculous to name him is that there are thousands of such acts going on in the country every day, it's by pure chance that he got caught.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,021 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Interesting article here about the Amsterdam model and why it’s not working. It’s seen as a disaster nit the success everyone thinks.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/amsterdam-red-light-district-failing-prostitution-sex-work-decriminalisation-doesnt-work-holland-a8206511.html%3famp


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭Prince William


    I would have thought tinder had made the whole paying for sex thing obsolete


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  • Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭Pythagorean


    A phantom hooker, she never even existed. Entrapment probably.

    Maybe they sent an undercover Guard in, in which case he would be breaking the law. Did they use mobile phone data? Graham Dwyer case has proved this to be dubious. Entrapment can only be used as a defence if the "entrapper" persuades the" entrapee" to carry out a criminal act which they would not normally do. I wonder if the defendant had free legal aid.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Happens everywhere.

    The user did not ask if it happens. The question was where does it happen _more_?

    Beating people is already illegal. Holding people against their will is already illegal. Forcing people to have sex is already illegal.

    Why do we need laws impacting the work of legitimate sex workers when we have laws already related to the crimes we are working against?

    Underage Child Labour is illegal right? We already have laws on that. So if a clothing firm started using children to cheaply produce clothes would we A) prosecute them under existing laws of B) make the purchase and/or sale and/or production of clothes illegal?

    B would be patently ridiculous. Yet somehow people think it is a good idea in the context of sex work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭turdball


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Does that happen more in Ireland where brothels are illegal, or more in Germany, Netherlands where they are legal?

    Generally in the Netherlands where the proper tourist places are the people who rent the windows have to do a check on all the women and generally look after them. 50 yoyos a go.

    Probably tons of shady places in Netherlands as well where you could get a ride for a tenner but not in the tourist regions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Muckka


    The only things blocked here are some file sharing sites, not by the govt but by the ISPs themselves when lawyers threatened to throw lawsuits at them. I suppose if China can block websites, so can we. We are probably not arsed going that far.

    Wasn't it on some Sunday paper someone from outside the durestiction was running the site.

    They named him and all didn't they.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    And you can dodge my points all you like but it still won’t change anything. Like - as I said - the simple fact that 66% of the paragraphs you quoted did not even contains any reasons at all despite you quoting them while claiming they do. Again that is not opinion. Simple fact.


    I don’t mind that it doesn’t change the laws as they are now. I’m perfectly happy with them.

    Oh hardly. We are discussing a single prosecution of a 65 year old man. How is that having any "effect" here really? Hardly torpedoed the underworld of crime here have we?

    You say it appears to be having an effect to protect some of the most vulnerable members of society from exploitation and abuse? Where? How? Who? You have offered no citations or links or data of it having protected _anyone_ at all.

    So the only one peddling "opinion" here is you. Certainly not evidence or reasons anyway.


    Well it’s eay for you to say there is no evidence when you dismiss a prosecution out of hand as though it isn’t evidence that in fact prosecutions are being pursued under the new laws, and people are being found guilty of having committed offences under the new laws.

    You’re expecting far too much of the new laws already if you imagine they are ineffective if things don’t change overnight. Give it time tax.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,785 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    jaxxx wrote: »
    The so called "feminists" who campaign for equality for women so long as they conform to their beliefs, and to hell with those who dare think differently?

    Coppinger and the pit girls spring to mind.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don’t mind that it doesn’t change the laws as they are now. I’m perfectly happy with them.

    Huh? I was not talking about the laws as they are now. I was talking about the lack of the very arguments you claimed were in the paragraphs where they patently were not. You are just changing the subject now. Come back with the goal posts there son!
    Well it’s eay for you to say there is no evidence when you dismiss a prosecution out of hand as though it isn’t evidence that in fact prosecutions are being pursued under the new laws, and people are being found guilty of having committed offences under the new laws.

    You are now defending a claim I was not at all refuting. Come back with all the goals posts from the other end of the pitch too please.

    The claim I am refuting is your claim that the laws are "having an effect is that the laws now exist to protect some of the most vulnerable members of society from exploitation and abuse". You have offered _no_ evidence of that claim. Not even a little. We have a single prosecution and you have not shown the person sell sex in this situation was vulnerable, exploited, abused or required any protection at all.

    So how is it clear the laws are having an effect that we appear not to have at all observed yet?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Coppinger and the pit girls

    Wasn't their first album called Clit Power?


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Muckka


    A German guy called Helmut approaches a lady of the night in London .
    "I vish to buy sex viz you."
    "Okay," says the girl, "I charge £50 an hour."
    "Ist goot, but I must varn you, I am a little kinky."
    "No problem," she replies cautiously, "I can do a little kinky for an extra £10."
    Helmut agrees
    So off they go the girl's flat, where the German produces four large bedsprings and a duck caller.
    "I vant zat you tie zese springs to each of your hans und knees."
    The girl finds this odd, but complies, fastening the springs as requested.
    "Now you vill get down on your hans und knees."
    This she duly does, balancing precariously on the springs.
    "You vill please to blow zis kwacker as I make love to you."
    She thinks this even odder, but figures it's harmless (and the guy is paying).
    But the sex is fantastic: honking away on the duck caller, she is bounced all over the room by the energetic German. The climax is the most sensational she has ever experienced, and it is several minutes before she has enough breath to say, "That was totally amazing! What do you call that position?"
    "Zat," replies the German, "is ze Four-sprung Duck Technique."

    Just a joke, not to be taken seriously....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Muckka wrote: »
    A German guy called Helmut approaches a lady of the night in London .
    "I vish to buy sex viz you."
    "Okay," says the girl, "I charge £50 an hour."
    "Ist goot, but I must varn you, I am a little kinky."
    "No problem," she replies cautiously, "I can do a little kinky for an extra £10."
    Helmut agrees
    So off they go the girl's flat, where the German produces four large bedsprings and a duck caller.
    "I vant zat you tie zese springs to each of your hans und knees."
    The girl finds this odd, but complies, fastening the springs as requested.
    "Now you vill get down on your hans und knees."
    This she duly does, balancing precariously on the springs.
    "You vill please to blow zis kwacker as I make love to you."
    She thinks this even odder, but figures it's harmless (and the guy is paying).
    But the sex is fantastic: honking away on the duck caller, she is bounced all over the room by the energetic German. The climax is the most sensational she has ever experienced, and it is several minutes before she has enough breath to say, "That was totally amazing! What do you call that position?"
    "Zat," replies the German, "is ze Four-sprung Duck Technique."

    Just a joke, not to be taken seriously....

    Audi you get away with it :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Muckka


    elperello wrote: »
    Audi you get away with it :)

    He probably had a getaway car outside...and changed drivers lol
    Good comeback


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    I'd be of the opinion that we need to get over the stigma against sex work, and be more supportive of the people in it and the people who wish to get out of it. I'd be very much for stronger enforcement against people who drag others I to it by trafficking or abuse. (I think trafficking is an issue that needs to be taken more seriously, as it's not just limited to sex work). With that in mind, all we know is this guy went to purchase sex. We don't know, if the escort was indeed someone who was trafficked, abused and forced into sex work. As this is the first conviction, after a charge that was submitted 1 year after the legislation got put through, I'd be inclined to think there's something else about this case that either the press didn't see the point in reporting, or could have been restricted from reporting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 736 ✭✭✭TCM


    Is there any possible legitimate reason why prostitution should be illegal?


    Would I be correct in saying that buying sex is illegal but it is not actually illegal to sell sex (ie, the prostitute is not prosecuted)?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Reddit


    In Ireland, If you film it, is it considered legal because it's pornography?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    TCM wrote: »
    Would I be correct in saying that buying sex is illegal but it is not actually illegal to sell sex (ie, the prostitute is not prosecuted)?

    Buying was made illegal 2 years ago.

    Prior to that it was solicitation (which is why none of the websites are based here), brothel keeping (which means a minimum of 2 people actively involved in the running of a premises that's purpose was for the sale of sex) and pimping (I'm not sure of that's also covered by solicitation).

    Oh and prostitutes have been charged. I read an article is recently of 2 women charged with brothel keeping, who were still running a brothel, while awaiting court.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Huh? I was not talking about the laws as they are now. I was talking about the lack of the very arguments you claimed were in the paragraphs where they patently were not. You are just changing the subject now. Come back with the goal posts there son!

    You are now defending a claim I was not at all refuting. Come back with all the goals posts from the other end of the pitch too please.

    The claim I am refuting is your claim that the laws are "having an effect is that the laws now exist to protect some of the most vulnerable members of society from exploitation and abuse". You have offered _no_ evidence of that claim. Not even a little. We have a single prosecution and you have not shown the person sell sex in this situation was vulnerable, exploited, abused or required any protection at all.

    So how is it clear the laws are having an effect that we appear not to have at all observed yet?


    You never are, but I was talking about the laws as they are now, and I understand the reasons for the laws being introduced. It’s quite obvious that you don’t see those reasons as legitimate reasons, but that doesn’t mean that to people who are not you that they aren’t legitimate reasons. Evidence of the claims has already been presented in order to support the introduction of the laws. If you still claim that the laws are not having an effect in spite of the fact that prosecutions are taking place, then it’s simply because you don’t want to acknowledge the fact that the laws are having a positive effect on society by prohibiting, discouraging and preventing people from exploiting other people.

    If you’re not grateful for that much, at least we can both be grateful for the fact at least that I am not your son :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Ultimanemo wrote: »
    If the person who is selling sex was a man, They would have named and shamed him and got the sh1t out of him.
    Would they?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You never are, but I was talking about the laws as they are now, and I understand the reasons for the laws being introduced.

    Again with the goal posts. A recap. You said there were reasons for the laws in the article. You were asked where. You quoted three paragraphs - two of which had no reasons at all in them of any kind. And one which was a complete fail.

    So now you are just shifting as usual to deflection. Usual MO. The simple fact is the article does not contain what you claimed so now you are defending a string of things I did not even remotely dispute.
    If you still claim that the laws are not having an effect in spite of the fact that prosecutions are taking place, then it’s simply because you don’t want to acknowledge the fact that the laws are having a positive effect on society by prohibiting, discouraging and preventing people from exploiting other people.

    Why would I acknowledge something you have not evidenced? This is a _single_ prosecution so your claim "prosecutions are taking place" is already wrong.

    Further though - and this is the focus of the fail in your position I have been pointing out over a few posts now - the fact a prosecution happened is _not_ evidence that the law is "prohibiting, discouraging and preventing people from exploiting other people" at all. It just is not. It is just evidence one 65 year old was prosecution which means a few things including 1) he clearly was not discouraged or prevented from doing anything at all given he did it and B) we have no evidence anyone here was being exploited at all.

    So you can pretend this is about what I "want to acknowledge" all you like to dodge the actual arguments. But it is not about what I want at all. It is about what is actually evidenced here. And there is no evidence yet that this law has discouraged anyone from anything - has protected anyone from anything - or that anyone the law has affected has actually being abused, exploited or in any way helped even a little.

    You fling the word "want" and "opinion" around a lot - but this is projection as only you are basing you position on that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭CPTM


    I knew someone who sold incredibly expensive condoms with a free trial.. seemed legit..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    You fling the word "want" and "opinion" around a lot - but this is projection as only you are basing you position on that.


    My opinion is based upon the evidence which you have chosen to dismiss. You’re free to interpret the evidence as you wish, it changes nothing, and I’m not all that invested in changing your opinion. I’m more interested in how the laws will have a positive effect on society and particularly the positive effect they will have on people who are subjected to exploitation and abuse, and preventing that from happening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    retalivity wrote: »
    Lol was the west end retail park known for having brazzers?

    West end girls


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    anewme wrote: »
    Interesting article here about the Amsterdam model and why it’s not working. It’s seen as a disaster nit the success everyone thinks.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/amsterdam-red-light-district-failing-prostitution-sex-work-decriminalisation-doesnt-work-holland-a8206511.html%3famp


    The article you've linked to is an opinion piece by Julie Bindel, a lesbian feminist anti-prostitution campaigner & co-author of a report on Brothels in Britain, which was labelled 'inaccurate' & 'unethical' by 27 leading UK academics involved in sex-work research

    Big Brothel research 'seriously flawed'
    The Big Brothel report, co-authored by journalist and campaigner Julie Bindel and Helen Atkins, received huge media coverage last month.

    But critics accused it of conflating fears over trafficking with general prostitution.

    Brooks-Gordon said: "You can't just churn out political propaganda and say it's research. You end up with very dangerous policy.

    "The government has to bear responsibility if they have put tenders out for research and the people carrying out that research are not following full ethics procedures.

    She called the report a "shocker". "Not only is the methodology flawed but it shows a complete lack of understanding about the sex industry."


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    People saying they feel sorry for him must know more about his personal circumstances than that article divulges. If he's a single guy and choosing to risk being named by breaking the law that way that's his business.

    However, if he's a man in a relationship and he's going off visiting brothels and then posing a health threat to his unknowing partner, he is getting no sympathy from me. They are plenty of instances of people cheating on their partner and then fúcking over their health as a result of stds. Nobody to feel sorry for there except their poor partner.

    Aside from that, the decent thing for legislators to do would be to make brothels not only legal, but regulated. Making them legal but not regulating the working conditions in them would be state-sanctioning of abuse and a bad move.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    My opinion is based upon the evidence which you have chosen to dismiss. You’re free to interpret the evidence as you wish, it changes nothing, and I’m not all that invested in changing your opinion. I’m more interested in how the laws will have a positive effect on society and particularly the positive effect they will have on people who are subjected to exploitation and abuse, and preventing that from happening.

    One eyed Jack I'm having a hard time trying to find this "evidence" you keep referring to that "has already been presented". I've gone back through all the posts following the quote links and I can't find the "evidence" or the "prosecutions" you're talking about.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    One eyed Jack I'm having a hard time trying to find this "evidence" you keep referring to that "has already been presented". I've gone back through all the posts following the quote links and I can't find the "evidence" or the "prosecutions" you're talking about.

    It appears as though you read my mind by snipping out the last part of your post -


    One eyed Jack I'm having a hard time trying to find this "evidence" you keep referring to that "has already been presented". I've gone back through all the posts following the quote links and I can't find the "evidence" or the "prosecutions" you're talking about.

    Don't tell me you're considering this conviction of the 65 year old man as your "prosecution"...


    Ok, I won’t tell you that then, if it makes you feel better.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Who exactly is the victim in this consentual arrangement between two adults?

    forgot_to_ask_thumb.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Not all hookers are happy.
    Some are beaten, threatened and maimed by their pimps.
    Not all are there because they want to be.

    a lot of maids and fruit-pickers are enslaved too. Doesn't mean that all domestic service or fruit should be illegal


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Muckka


    There's plenty of hooker's along the pier in Kinvara

    They're a very fine craft, she was rigged fore-and-aft
    And oh, how the wild winds drove her
    She had twenty-three masts and withstood several blasts
    And we called her the Galway hooker


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    People saying they feel sorry for him must know more about his personal circumstances than that article divulges. If he's a single guy and choosing to risk being named by breaking the law that way that's his business.

    However, if he's a man in a relationship and he's going off visiting brothels and then posing a health threat to his unknowing partner, he is getting no sympathy from me. They are plenty of instances of people cheating on their partner and then fúcking over their health as a result of stds. Nobody to feel sorry for there except their poor partner.

    Aside from that, the decent thing for legislators to do would be to make brothels not only legal, but regulated. Making them legal but not regulating the working conditions in them would be state-sanctioning of abuse and a bad move.

    Is infidelity really the issue? Is it unique to those who use prostitutes? Is it an issue for the state? I wouldn't expect it, nor want it to be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    I don’t mind that it doesn’t change the laws as they are now. I’m perfectly happy with them.





    .

    Why does it matter to you either way. If you're not going to use their services, whether it's legal or illegal wont affect you. Why not let other adults do what they want, the same way they dont care what you do.


    Or are you afraid you wont be able to resist temptation if you were walking by an advertised brothel.............


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